Backing it in? : Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums: Gixxer.com
» Insurance
» Suzuki GSX-R Prices
» Sponsors
Go Back   Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com > General Discussion > General Bike Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-20-2005, 04:53 AM   #1
Stuman
Novice
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: CA
Motorcycle: Stuman
Posts: 82
Backing it in?

Backing the bike into the corner was pretty popular for a while. It seemed like everyone was doing it and doing it to the extreme. Now you see it less and less. Even the guys that were doing it like crazy before (Yates, Nicky, etc…) barely do it at all anymore. So what’s the deal? Was this ever a good technique? Why did it go away?
Stuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-20-2005, 05:10 AM   #2
fugitiveorphan
Club Racer
 
fugitiveorphan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Motorcycle: RC51, R6 Racebike, DRZ 400
Posts: 2,456
Re: Backing it in?

it can be a great technique if you can control it well. Sometimes it's more of a technique NOT to back it in, and to keep both wheels in a straight line for maximum braking.
In my experience, once it comes out, it's better to keep it out until I turn in. If i try to get it back in line, I tend to overcompensate then get the back wheel going back and forth and then i have a really hard time hitting my line through the corner.

The progression of tire technology and better slipper clutches is slowly eliminating back-ins as well. There'll always be riders who prefer to ride that way, though.
fugitiveorphan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 05:10 AM   #3
KillBillLA
Rookie
 
KillBillLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: LA, CA
Motorcycle: Bill Dugger
Posts: 351
Re: Backing it in?

To many highsides?
KillBillLA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 05:18 AM   #4
SVS
drunk texts OG and Oldfart
 
SVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ossum, Texas
Motorcycle: '08 KTM SuperDuke R, '99 SV650S, '84 XL600R
Posts: 129,497
Re: Backing it in?

I noticed that too - that they almost stopped doing it. I think development in tire technology has a lot to do with it. Just last year all the fast MotoGP riders were doing it because it was the fastest then. Now the tires are appearently so good that it's faster with less slides. Lap times keep getting better, so...
SVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 05:55 AM   #5
Ibidu1
Here is your "R"
 
Ibidu1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa FL
Motorcycle: Ibidu1
Posts: 6,883
Re: Backing it in?

I have backed it in several times on accident, coming to hot into turns. Basically its letting the clutch out on too low of a gear and you drag the back tire, backing it in to so long radius turns helps steer the bike. But I guess with the slipper clutchess its harder to have that back end drag
Ibidu1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 05:59 AM   #6
SVS
drunk texts OG and Oldfart
 
SVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ossum, Texas
Motorcycle: '08 KTM SuperDuke R, '99 SV650S, '84 XL600R
Posts: 129,497
Re: Backing it in?

Quote:
I have backed it in several times on accident, coming to hot into turns. Basically its letting the clutch out on too low of a gear and you drag the back tire, backing it in to so long radius turns helps steer the bike. But I guess with the slipper clutchess its harder to have that back end drag

Or the other way around - spinning the wheel faster than the bike is moving
SVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 06:00 AM   #7
meanSVinAZ
Rookie
 
meanSVinAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 548
Re: Backing it in?

yeah it's probably the developement of slipper clutches and better tires. The clutch slips instead of the tire... In MotoGP they have engine braking management systems too. I think they're just building better bikes that are easier to ride. I doubt backing it in was always intentional and now it's easier to avoid it. It looked awsome though...
meanSVinAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 06:20 AM   #8
njracer
Crusty Old Admin
 
njracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: hiding from the tax man!
Motorcycle: njracer
Posts: 26,710
Re: Backing it in?

Just about all of the guys who back-it-in have a dirt track backround. Hayden's, Yates, Bostrom's and many others.
njracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 03:59 AM   #9
Stuman
Novice
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: CA
Motorcycle: Stuman
Posts: 82
Re: Backing it in?

So do you think backing it in was something the riders didn't really do on purpose and that technology has helped them to avoid doing it now?

Or

They used to do it on purpose and found that it wasn't the fastest way around.
Stuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 04:32 AM   #10
meanSVinAZ
Rookie
 
meanSVinAZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 548
Re: Backing it in?

Quote:
So do you think backing it in was something the riders didn't really do on purpose and that technology has helped them to avoid doing it now?

Or

They used to do it on purpose and found that it wasn't the fastest way around.
IMO it's #1... I think it just happened sometimes when riders were pushing hard, especially riders from a dirt backgound who tend to use the rear brake more and are more comfortable with or used to being sideways. I think the riders with a street only background did/do a lot more to avoid it since it's less comfortable for most of them. It's probably just easier to get into a corner on the brakes now with slipper clutches and stickier tires without getting out of line.

just my $0.02 though
meanSVinAZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 04:55 AM   #11
njracer
Crusty Old Admin
 
njracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: hiding from the tax man!
Motorcycle: njracer
Posts: 26,710
Re: Backing it in?

Quote:
So do you think backing it in was something the riders didn't really do on purpose and that technology has helped them to avoid doing it now?

Or

They used to do it on purpose and found that it wasn't the fastest way around.
I think the riders with a dirt track backround did it on purpose since that is the way they learned how to get into a corner. Other riders might just be following their style (the same way KR was copied when he started the knee on the ground style) "thinking" that it is the fast way around.

Today I think you see less and less of the back it in style due to more bike with slipper clutches. I think in 2006 you will even see less than you did in 2005 since just about every bike now has an OEM slipper clutch in it.

IMO - it is a style that has come and now will go or at least it's not going to be as pronounced as it used to be......technology is now leading the way.

njracer
njracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 05:24 AM   #12
SVS
drunk texts OG and Oldfart
 
SVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Ossum, Texas
Motorcycle: '08 KTM SuperDuke R, '99 SV650S, '84 XL600R
Posts: 129,497
Re: Backing it in?

Quote:
So do you think backing it in was something the riders didn't really do on purpose and that technology has helped them to avoid doing it now?

Or

They used to do it on purpose and found that it wasn't the fastest way around.
They did it on purpose, at least the last couple of years until this season because it WAS fast. Watch the Garry McCoy interview in "Faster"... But now the tires (and electronics on the GP bikes) have developed to a point where it's not the fastest any more.

Look at Rossis riding style last year, slipping and sliding, compared to this year. The best lap times are 1-2 seconds faster this year but then again it was the same between last year and the year before. The pros adapt their riding style to the available technology
SVS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 05:50 AM   #13
sportbike solutions
Official Sponsor

 
sportbike solutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 750cc Rascal
Posts: 3,847
Re: Backing it in?

I think backing it in has it's place, but it's probably not the fastest way around most turns on an open track. In some turns, I think it can be used to an advantage. And when you're racing, sometimes you're forced to take a line that wouldn't be optimum, and perhaps backing it in is a way to create your own line in these circumstances (God knows I'm not there yet - but I can see where it's use could, at times, be appropriate). I agree with what NJ says in that the guys that come from a dirtracking background obviously rely on it more often - it's something they're obviously quite comfortable with. But just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. The same holds true the other way around - just because it may not be fastest most of the time, doesn't mean it doesn't work sometimes.

I used to love watching McCoy... but I don't think he was fast because he had the bike sideways through every turn. I think he was fast enough, at the time, to make up for the time he actually lost with the bike constantly stepped out. I think Doohan said something along the same lines in 'Faster' when commenting on McCoy's style.

I'm sure slipper clutches & the like do have something to do with seeing it less... but from my limited experience, the majority of turns give you enough time & distance to get clean downshifts in before turn entry, with or without a slipper, so long as you maintain enough speed through the turn to keep from having to be in too low a gear going in. I'd have to guess that the guys who used to do it constantly, almost out of instinct, have probably learned/been trained to not rely on it when it's not needed.
sportbike solutions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 08:17 AM   #14
Ibidu1
Here is your "R"
 
Ibidu1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa FL
Motorcycle: Ibidu1
Posts: 6,883
Re: Backing it in?

I dont think Mccoy backed it in a lot in turns, I know he use to spin it up out of turns. spinning it up and backing it in are 2 different things.

When you are rushing to a turn from a long straight away, trying to out brake the other guy. Your hard on the brakes and the ass end of the bike is almost if not in the air, plus you downshift from 5-6th gear going 180+mph and down shift to 2nd gear for the turn drags the rear tire. It will still drag with a slipper that backing it in

Spinning it up, is just before the apex-exit of the turn. This is due to too much throttle, and the rear tire slips breaks. Or for beginner racers chopping the throttle and not smooth on the throttle or suspension set wrong
Ibidu1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 08:22 AM   #15
sportbike solutions
Official Sponsor

 
sportbike solutions's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 750cc Rascal
Posts: 3,847
Re: Backing it in?

that's true... alot of what McCoy did was on turn exit rather than entry.
sportbike solutions is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 09:59 PM   #16
bohicawarrior
Back Marker
 
bohicawarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 103
Re: Backing it in?

just to keep the conversation going...

http://media.putfile.com/MotoGP-Animals
bohicawarrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2005, 06:07 PM   #17
k32003
Novice
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 53
Re: Backing it in?

I believe both Backing it in and spinning up on the exit have the same effect. They both enable a bike to be turned at a higher speed than is possible while maintaining grip at both ends. Racing will always dictate that the rider figures out how to turn the motorcycle at a higher speed than his competitors.... deliberately giving up grip for direction change will always have its place at the highest levels. The guys brought up on dirt bikes simply know this best.
k32003 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2005, 06:19 AM   #18
flatlandrider
Novice
 
flatlandrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Regina Sk
Posts: 77
Re: Backing it in?

Could it be that there trying to save there tier becaus of the softer compounds and what not?
flatlandrider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2005, 07:50 AM   #19
Ibidu1
Here is your "R"
 
Ibidu1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tampa FL
Motorcycle: Ibidu1
Posts: 6,883
Re: Backing it in?

Quote:
I believe both Backing it in and spinning up on the exit have the same effect. They both enable a bike to be turned at a higher speed than is possible while maintaining grip at both ends. Racing will always dictate that the rider figures out how to turn the motorcycle at a higher speed than his competitors.... deliberately giving up grip for direction change will always have its place at the highest levels. The guys brought up on dirt bikes simply know this best.
Your right, you can steer the bike and that is what nicky hayden likes to do a lot.
Ibidu1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:03 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008 — 2013 Gixxer.com
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum Ninja H2 Forum Ducati Scrambler Forum