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Old 03-19-2012, 04:07 AM   #1
NAJ2627
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engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

guys, i have searched till i gave up!

as per above :
am trying to fit a 1127 block,crank,pistons,head into my '88 750 engine case.

havent get my hands dirty yet tho, but finding out what fit & what doesn't would really help me in advance!

also read somewhere about some more engine combos, but i've confused myself with the search.

so in short, i got a long-time-project-nearly 90% dis-assembled 1127 and head-less 750.

TIA
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:55 AM   #2
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

naj i bought one, crank ground down 1127 ,1127 rods 750 case bored, 1127 barrels
and head .crank journals were cooked ? as well as 1 rod big end that is beside my computer
i'd be using the 1127 bottom with dot 750 head iff your cases are ok
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Old 03-19-2012, 07:46 PM   #3
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

thanks OG!

was trying to retain the 6 speed, whenever possible. did the valve job on the 1127's head recently, coudn't be bothered doin' it on the dot head (yea i have one)

did multiple search, and did not found anything that fits my question.

so only the crank needs to be modified to fit in the 750's case?

figured that if i got the case cleared to accept the 1127's crank, everything else frm the 1127 (rods,block,head) wud then be bolted onto the 750's case.

also have a set of 1216 JE piston kit, just in case this does not work out well
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Originally Posted by javadog
"If you want to f*** something up, just for the sake of doing something pointless, buy a 'Busa and have at it"
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welcome to where the sun shines all year round..

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Old 03-20-2012, 03:47 AM   #4
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

some more digging in here. here's what i found

" OK, here's the full scoop on oil-cooled cases:

There are two basic groups of oil-cooled cases, and the primary reason for the difference between them is the size of the main bearings. All of the 600's and all of the long-stroke GSXR 750's use the small main bearing setup. All of these cases are mostly interchangeable with each other.


The other group of cases uses the large main bearings, and this would include all of the 1100's, Bandit 1200's, and all of the short-stroke 750's. Short stroke 750's are any of them that had a 73mm piston from the factory, including 88-89 GSXRs and all of the Katana 750's. All of the cases from this group of engines are mostly interchangeable.


But, as I said, mostly interchangeable. During the lifespan of the oil-cooled, Suzuki made 2 upgrades that affect the case interchangeablility. The first upgrade was to the starter motor. The 1052 motors use exactly the same cases and starter dimensions as all of the short-stroke 750's, with the only difference being the color of the paint on them. The GSXR's had a dark grey, while the Katanas had a semi-gloss black. Other than that, all 1052s and short-stroke 750 cases are identical.


When the 1127 motor came out in 89 (88 on the 1100 Katana), they upgraded the starter motor. The newer starter has a larger output bearing. As a result, the cases have a larger bore in them for the starter, and the gasket surface of the starter cover has a slight hump around the starter area as compared to an earlier motor. You can change cases between the small starter and the large starter, but you must also change over to the correct starter and engine cover appropriate for the new cases.


The next upgrade was to replace the transmission output shaft bearing. The early motors used a single-row bearing, which was prone to breaking. So starting in 1991 Suzuki started to use a double-row output bearing in the GSXR 1100's. I believe that this is also the same setup used in the Bandit 1200's as well. But they never upgraded the Katana 1100s to this setup and, to my knowledge, they never upgraded any of the 750 Katana engines either.


This modification affects the cases because the location of the retainer groove is different between the 2 different bearings, and is therefore different between the cases as well. So if you are swapping cases that have different groove locations, you must have a transmission with the correct output bearing and output shaft to match the cases.


Now more specifically to your case, if you truly have a 1989 GSXR 1100 engine (the V710 number is not enough information to positively determine this), then the only 100% direct replacement cases would be 89-90 GSXR 1100 and 88-93 Katana 1100 cases. Others could be made to work, but they would all require some modification or swapping of some parts.

"

and

" ok I finally got some time to play with the motor. Grinded all the cases smooth on the inside for better oil return as the 88 cases have some casting ridges that collect alot of slug. got all the bearings including the thrush bearing (really important). It's perfect on the thrush .003 in with required .002 to .005. that was my biggest worry because the crank is beefier the the 750.
I know there is a guy from australia on this site that has done this for racing before and if you out there please hit me up.
my clutch is the 88 1052 clutch and matches up with the oil pump and transmission and is all ready to drop in.
The spot for #3 rod that you have to grind down is not much but looks like it is on an oil galley so be very careful as you will finish the build right there if you go thru. It only flattening it out a tiny bit otherwis the cases are the same
"

'looks like it is on an oil galley' ?

any pic of that area in particular?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog
"If you want to f*** something up, just for the sake of doing something pointless, buy a 'Busa and have at it"
biggrin
welcome to where the sun shines all year round..

1988 GSXR seven-twelve-sixteen

Last edited by NAJ2627; 03-20-2012 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 04-15-2012, 03:53 AM   #5
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

well i figured you guys love pics. here's some progress.

turns out i may re-use the lower half of the 1127's case, which eliminate the need for crankshaft gap issues. no grinding needed!

but the hydraulic clutch setup will be ditched, since i can't use it!

i wonder whether will the 750's stock clutch hold up well against the 1216?
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:46 PM   #6
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

looking good NAJ, thanks for putting up the info
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:05 PM   #7
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old gsxr View Post
looking good NAJ, thanks for putting up the info
that sorta comment comin' from a senior? i'm flattered, OG!
will be using a 36mm carby, the block is being punched to accomodate 81mm JE's, and cable clutch (i still can't remember why i can't use hydraulic! )

am not gonna go for max hp, i just want a weekend bike i can enjoy.

we will see:

-whether a 6-speeder will withstand a 1216 (or not)
-a 750 stock clutch vs 1216's torque

anything else you guys want me to test out while i'm at it?

no write-up, but will take some pics as i go along.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javadog
"If you want to f*** something up, just for the sake of doing something pointless, buy a 'Busa and have at it"
biggrin
welcome to where the sun shines all year round..

1988 GSXR seven-twelve-sixteen
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:07 PM   #8
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

just wanted to encourage you doing it yourself , i'd be adding more clutch pressure by the way of a lockup that clamps more pressure on the plates as rpm increases
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Old 04-18-2012, 12:39 AM   #9
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

That is f-n cool! Keep up the good work and post as you go. I never considered that you could use the big-block bottom case with it. It'll be interesting to see what the weight difference will be compared to the OEM 748 engine.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:27 PM   #10
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.



picture: 1127 block now sits comfortably on 748's upper part of the crankcase. case needs to be slightly machined for the block's clearence, else the block just won't sit flush. i sent them to a machine shop nearby, and excuse the crappy pic, i am no photographer!

now on to punchin' the hole a tad bigger for 81mm pistons.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:39 PM   #11
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

righto.

the case shows where some grinding is required in order to fit a 1127 block on to a 748's case.

the blocks will fit 81mm pistons now.
look at how slim the cylinder walls are! scary stuff!
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:05 AM   #12
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ2627 View Post
the blocks will fit 81mm pistons now.
look at how slim the cylinder walls are! scary stuff!
just remember the sleeves are supported at each fin from swelling under pressure not like a car engine , keep the progress coming
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:11 AM   #13
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old gsxr View Post
keep the progress coming
aye aye captain!
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:34 PM   #14
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

snapped some better-lookin pics of em before assembly
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:59 PM   #15
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

did you attack the case with a die grinder???,,,,cause that's some really rough looking machining,,?
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:11 PM   #16
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

Quote:
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did you attack the case with a die grinder???,,,,cause that's some really rough looking machining,,?
i have no idea, sent it to a machine shop that did it for me.
will the ruff grind be an issue later on? (no, really.. would it? )
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Old 05-10-2012, 07:54 AM   #17
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ2627 View Post
i have no idea, sent it to a machine shop that did it for me.
will the ruff grind be an issue later on? (no, really.. would it? )
Lots of have been done by hand with a die grinder and are far from perfect..
It will be fine!! You now have the clearance needed for the bigger sleeves to drop down into the case, the block is supported at the top of the case.

Great build!
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:50 PM   #18
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

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Originally Posted by Beairsto Racing View Post
Lots of have been done by hand with a die grinder and are far from perfect..
It will be fine!! You now have the clearance needed for the bigger sleeves to drop down into the case, the block is supported at the top of the case.

Great build!
thanks! point noted!
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Old 06-25-2012, 12:38 AM   #19
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

lack of update! work is f*n murder!

but pistons are already assembled, will upload some pics soon!
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Old 07-15-2012, 10:58 PM   #20
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Re: engine combo - 1127 block, crank, piston,head in '88 750 case.

some progress pics!
everything on the engine block is assembled, minus clutch assembly tho.
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