Advice for tossing the bike over in corners? : Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums: Gixxer.com
» Insurance
» Suzuki GSX-R Prices
» Sponsors
Go Back   Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com > Racing & Stunts > Track Days

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-01-2012, 02:42 PM   #1
DeletantAssasin
Novice
 
DeletantAssasin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Motorcycle: 2008 GSx-R 600
Posts: 44
Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

I'm new to track days with only 3 track days under my belt and I just learned how to ride a superbike back in May. My goal is to break bad habits early. I feel that my body positioning is good. I'm keeping my spine parallel to the bike and my head inside and down.

Feet position need major work. I feel like I'm fighting the bike in my turn-ins/thru the corner to outride the majority of the other guys in the beginner group. Basically, by the end of 4 20-minute sessions on the GP configuration (~5kms long with only 2 straights), my legs are exhausted.

*Saw the thread about feet position.. correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that my problem is that I'm using my inside foot as an anchor, instead of my outside knee and foot??

I feel that the area I need the most work on is getting the bike over faster to improve my corner entry speeds. Problem is that I'm scared to throw the bike as I'm fearful I'll throw it straight to a low-side. Any pointers?

Here's a link to my youtube account. Feel free to criticize where needed. Session 1 is straight garbage. Session's 3 and 4 were the best IMO. Also, ~7:50 in session 3, my rear steps out on corner exit. I snapped the throttle shut and it came back inline. (Throttle off for less than .1/sec, then back full throttle once rear got traction) Mistake?

http://www.youtube.com/user/Deletant...?feature=guide

Last edited by DeletantAssasin; 03-01-2012 at 02:56 PM.
DeletantAssasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-01-2012, 04:32 PM   #2
a.leopard
Nazi Lustful Faggot - hot for Hermann Göring & Cainyboy
 
a.leopard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Motorcycle: zixxer 1k '06, k7 600
Posts: 3,246
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

The following books should help:

"Twist of the Wrist 2" by Keith Code (including DVD)

"Performance riding techniques" by Andy Ibott
a.leopard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 11:52 PM   #3
Kappaball
Club Racer
 
Kappaball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bmt, Texas
Motorcycle: GSXR-1000L1
Posts: 2,864
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

First off. Have you set sag on your suspension?

I don't think your entry speed is the problem. Rather the control and lines you're taking is wrong. Example: I rarely saw you hitting the apexes of turns. You ran wide. There were also a variety o inconsistencies in all your turns including speed, turn angle, lines.
Kappaball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 11:55 PM   #4
Kappaball
Club Racer
 
Kappaball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bmt, Texas
Motorcycle: GSXR-1000L1
Posts: 2,864
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Just watched a few seconds of "session 4." Already I can tell your lines have improved a lot. Not only that but your speed is very consistent. Only thing I saw wrong was after that VERY long straight you keep running wide on that turn. Recheck your brake point and turn in. Remember smooth and slow is fast.

The turn right after the pit straight looked good, but that turn after the other straight away needs work.

Btw for got to ask. Do you feel your "fighting" your bike to get it to turn in?

Last edited by Kappaball; 03-03-2012 at 11:59 PM.
Kappaball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 09:36 AM   #5
DeletantAssasin
Novice
 
DeletantAssasin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Motorcycle: 2008 GSx-R 600
Posts: 44
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kappaball View Post
Just watched a few seconds of "session 4." Already I can tell your lines have improved a lot. Not only that but your speed is very consistent. Only thing I saw wrong was after that VERY long straight you keep running wide on that turn. Recheck your brake point and turn in. Remember smooth and slow is fast.

The turn right after the pit straight looked good, but that turn after the other straight away needs work.

Btw for got to ask. Do you feel your "fighting" your bike to get it to turn in?
Haven't set the sag. I'll do that this upcoming weekend. It was my first time running this track config, so I haven't learned all of the corners. More seat-time will give me improvements on my lines. Another thing I forgot to mention is that my bike shop guy over here swapped out my rear tire from a 180/55 to 190/50. My 1st 2 track days, I ran the 180.. very easy to control - felt really good. The 190 feels equally nimble, but I feel like every steering input (however minute) is ... how do I explain it..

Minute steering input on the 180 equals exactly what I want the bike to do.

Same steering input on the 190 equals the bike going past the point where I want the lean to be.

As far as "fighting the bike", Yeah, it did feel that way on that track day. But I think that is more an issue of feet position and how I'm anchoring myself. I've been putting all of my weight on the inside peg at all times. (and I wasn't fighting the bike until the 190 was put on).

**A.Leopard - I have the DVD of twist of wrist 2. Watched it when I first bought the bike, back in May. I'll watch it again and also look for that book you mentioned.

Last edited by DeletantAssasin; 03-04-2012 at 09:47 AM.
DeletantAssasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 09:49 AM   #6
Moto_Joe
Serial Comma Rapist Admin
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,098
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

You are rushing the corners really, and missing apexes bad, even in the Session4.

the 190/50 tire is a GARBAGE size tire. Get a new tire. 190/55 is one thing. But the /50 is not made for a 5.5" rim which is what a 600 has. That tire will give all sorts of crap handling at speed. Any time you change tire profile you may need to change geometry though.

Working on putting pressure on the outside of the bike might help the running wide issue by providing a more stable bike with ultimately more edge grip.

Id say advice:
Get a new tire, of proper profile
Work on putting weight on outside of bike mid corner.
Stop rushing corners. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster. If get yoru entry trajectory right, you will nail apexes, and ultimately go faster.

Work on corners inside out. Meaning get the exit right. When you get the exit right it will dictate mid corner. When you get mid corner right, work on entry. When you get the entry right you can THEN start pushing deeper on brakes. This is the most effective way to disect a corner and learn it. Some people can do it in a few laps, some can do it nearly instantly, some may take sessions or even days.
__________________

Motomummy.com : D&A Cycles of Macon : Livengood Motorsports
us129photos.com : JRI Shocks : M4 Exhaust : Moto D Racing : Dunlop : Hazardous Racing :SFH : SBS : VHS :
www.GoMotoJoe.com
Coupon code "motojoe" for discount on hazardous racing leathers
2013 WERA National Challenge 3rd place
WERA Expert #20

Moto_Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #7
DeletantAssasin
Novice
 
DeletantAssasin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Motorcycle: 2008 GSx-R 600
Posts: 44
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
You are rushing the corners really, and missing apexes bad, even in the Session4.

the 190/50 tire is a GARBAGE size tire. Get a new tire. 190/55 is one thing. But the /50 is not made for a 5.5" rim which is what a 600 has. That tire will give all sorts of crap handling at speed. Any time you change tire profile you may need to change geometry though.

Working on putting pressure on the outside of the bike might help the running wide issue by providing a more stable bike with ultimately more edge grip.

Id say advice:
Get a new tire, of proper profile
Work on putting weight on outside of bike mid corner.
Stop rushing corners. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster. If get yoru entry trajectory right, you will nail apexes, and ultimately go faster.

Work on corners inside out. Meaning get the exit right. When you get the exit right it will dictate mid corner. When you get mid corner right, work on entry. When you get the entry right you can THEN start pushing deeper on brakes. This is the most effective way to disect a corner and learn it. Some people can do it in a few laps, some can do it nearly instantly, some may take sessions or even days.
It's probably a 190/55 then.. The bike shop guy handles many of the racer's bikes and says that I need to get used to that size of a rear, since it's a requirement for the 600 class (not that I'll be racing anytime soon, he just put it on without consulting me). I'll verify it tomorrow when I pick my bike up.

I am rushing the corners.. guess I'm more concerned with being the fastest in the beginner class. I'll slow it down and take your advice on "inside-out" and concentrate on proper anchoring techniques.
DeletantAssasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 10:24 AM   #8
Moto_Joe
Serial Comma Rapist Admin
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,098
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

FIRST piece of advice I should have given you is start leaving the ego at home

There will ALWAYS be someone faster. Rather than concerning yourself with how fast everyone else is, concentrate more on how fast YOU are. Trying to "keep up" is only going to cause you to ride over your head, with no reserve, which doesnt allow for any learning, just surviving (or attempting to).

Ride METHODICALLY, not MANIACALLY. You will learn more, in a shorter time, and ultimately be a better rider.
Moto_Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #9
DeletantAssasin
Novice
 
DeletantAssasin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Motorcycle: 2008 GSx-R 600
Posts: 44
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

I wouldn't say I'm riding maniacally! lol But your point isn't lost.. gotta crawl before I walk; and focus on what I'm doing and have less concern for the faster guys. We have track days every 2 weeks.. once I get back from my vacation stateside, it's game time again!
DeletantAssasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 11:46 AM   #10
Tater Tot Wee Woo
I am a tater tot; young, not stout. Here is my baby face whoa did a pube just sprout?
 
Tater Tot Wee Woo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Motorcycle: 2007 GSXR 600
Posts: 11,057
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
Work on corners inside out. Meaning get the exit right. When you get the exit right it will dictate mid corner. When you get mid corner right, work on entry. When you get the entry right you can THEN start pushing deeper on brakes. This is the most effective way to disect a corner and learn it. Some people can do it in a few laps, some can do it nearly instantly, some may take sessions or even days.
Good advice!
Tater Tot Wee Woo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 12:09 PM   #11
Pee Wee Herman
AKA 1/4milecrazy
 
Pee Wee Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Summit NJ
Motorcycle: Street:2009CBR600RR Track:2007GSXR600
Posts: 5,835
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
MANIACALLY
Pee Wee Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 03:40 PM   #12
Moto_Joe
Serial Comma Rapist Admin
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,098
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1/4milecrazy View Post
Adv.1.maniacally - in a maniacal manner or to a maniacal degree; "he was maniacally obsessed with jealousy"
Moto_Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 05:07 PM   #13
Pee Wee Herman
AKA 1/4milecrazy
 
Pee Wee Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Summit NJ
Motorcycle: Street:2009CBR600RR Track:2007GSXR600
Posts: 5,835
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

I knew what you were saying, I just didnt know it was a real word.
Pee Wee Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 05:16 PM   #14
SPL170db
Chubby Chaser
 
SPL170db's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 2005 GSXR-1000 (track), 2006 GSXR-600 (track/race)
Posts: 55,713
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Do they provide you any instruction or coaching at the track events that you've been too? If they do I would say seek them out and get some in person assistance.

As Joe had mentioned it looks like you are blowing apexes and are way off line in most of the corners. You need to work on developing the proper line around the track first. After that as your comfort level increases the speed will come with it.

But as I said, try to get some coaching in person if you can.
SPL170db is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 12:13 PM   #15
DeletantAssasin
Novice
 
DeletantAssasin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Motorcycle: 2008 GSx-R 600
Posts: 44
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL170db View Post
Do they provide you any instruction or coaching at the track events that you've been too? If they do I would say seek them out and get some in person assistance.

As Joe had mentioned it looks like you are blowing apexes and are way off line in most of the corners. You need to work on developing the proper line around the track first. After that as your comfort level increases the speed will come with it.

But as I said, try to get some coaching in person if you can.
Not that I'm aware of at the Dubai Autodrome, but they do offer the California Race School at Yas Island in Abu Dhabi.

My friend is the one who got me started on bikes when I arrived in-country. My first track day, I followed him for a lap, but quickly realized that trying to keep up was making me exceed my skill level/talent. So I cut him loose and took to learning on my own. He gave me pointers on correct body position and got my knee down that night. Since then, his bike was stolen, so I've been riding solo for my previous 2 track days, with no one following me to give me pointers/advice.

I've been wanting to attend the Race School at Yas. It's a super nice track. It's a shame they don't do bike track days there. *Only Race School*

As MJ stated, inside-out... Never heard of learning that way before. I was attempting to take my lines by a visual point for turn-ins.
DeletantAssasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 12:33 PM   #16
SPL170db
Chubby Chaser
 
SPL170db's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North Jersey
Motorcycle: 2005 GSXR-1000 (track), 2006 GSXR-600 (track/race)
Posts: 55,713
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

Do that then......you definitely need instruction. Unless you get instruction all you will be doing out there is practicing and perfecting bad techniques and that is not going to help you at all.
SPL170db is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2012, 10:57 PM   #17
Rdeezy25
Rookie
 
Rdeezy25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Motorcycle: Black k8 gsx-R 600
Posts: 622
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

subscribed
Rdeezy25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2012, 03:18 AM   #18
Flora62
Squid
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

The following books should help
Flora62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 09:53 AM   #19
DeletantAssasin
Novice
 
DeletantAssasin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
Motorcycle: 2008 GSx-R 600
Posts: 44
Re: Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

This was my 1st track day since the last vid I posted up.. This is the last session of the day.. session 3. In the first few laps, I'm holding in the clutch while downshifting, (which was new to me, suggested by a friend), but that was distracting from hitting the correct entry speed.. too slow. So I went back to clutch, downshift, rev match. And was hitting majority of lines, apexes, etc.. I also broke my habit of setting corner-entry speed by glancing at the speedometer. All visual cues! I was stoked by my performance at this track day.

I did have a problem in Sessions 1 and 2 with massive brake fade towards the end, which caused me to run off track in a few corners. Sessions were 30 minutes long. I'm running Steel-braided lines, stoptech front rotors, stock MC and calipers, and EBC Brake pads. Was the brake fade due to the extremely long session, or should I change something up? My friend following me told me that I'm braking extremely well... rear is skimming, all the way to turn-in.

vid:
http://youtu.be/_H97t2fUbYM

I was thinking of going with Galfer wave rotors, but I've heard mixed reviews about them. Heard nothing but good things with Brembo rotors. Also thought about getting Brembos RC19 MC.

MOTO JOE: I am now running Bridgestone's BT003RS's.. 180/55 These tires are by far, my favorite.

Last edited by DeletantAssasin; 11-10-2012 at 11:45 AM.
DeletantAssasin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2012, 12:17 PM   #20
Moto_Joe
Serial Comma Rapist Admin
 
Moto_Joe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Macon Ga
Motorcycle: 2006 GSXR 600 Racebike
Posts: 117,098
What model pads.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade and fluid fade. Pad fade is extremely rare
More than likely it is old fluid that has air and water in it.
Moto_Joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.2

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2008 — 2013 Gixxer.com
Motorcycle News, Videos and Reviews
Honda Grom Forum Harley Davidson Forum Honda 600RR Kawasaki Forum Yamaha R6 Forum Yamaha FZ-09 Forum
1199 Panigale Forum Roadglide Forum Honda CBR1000 Forum Vulcan Forum Yamaha R1 Forum Yamaha R3 Forum
Ducati Monster Forum Harley Forums Honda CBR250R Forum ZX10R Forum Star Raider Forum Yamaha Viking Forum
Suzuki GSXR Forum V-Rod Forums Honda Shadow Forum Kawasaki Motorcycle Forum Star Warrior Forum KTM Duke 390 Forum
SV650 Forum BMW S1000RR Forum Honda Fury Forum Kawasaki Versys Forum Drag Racing Forum Ducati 899 Panigale Forum
Suzuki V-Strom BMW K1600 Triumph Forum Victory Forums Sportbikes BMW NineT Forum
Volusia Forum BMW F800 Forum Triumph 675 Forum MV Agusta Forum HD Street Forum Suzuki GW250 Forum
Yamaha Motorcycles Victory Gunner Forum Honda Vultus Forum HD LiveWire Forum