any body got any friends in the titanium cnc section also could do with a new intake and exhaust valve or does any one know someone who already does them
Motorcycle: gsxr k1 1000 184.5 rw bhp ex race bike day time mot project and xro7 project build
Posts: 1,135
Re: titanium valves 98 srad
titanium race valves are dear because they are made of
TITANIUM!!
and if you get kit valves you need the kit head(or a head who,s valve seat is ground to this spec),as the valve seat angles are race spec. advantage is less weight to spin over,valve face is flat(more compression) .but i also think you need the barriliam valve seat as well,but i could be wrong,and the kit valves have a sort race life.....
Last edited by speedy sie; 05-29-2011 at 02:02 AM.
Why not just use stainless steel valves? They dont stretch, cheaper than Ti, and the weight is not that much of a difference you would really notice. SS can rev just as high as Ti, you need the proper springs not to float. If it were originally designed with Ti valves, ok. Just my opinion.
If stainless can endure 12k rpms in a 2.4L DOHC 4cyl, running methanol and 40psi of boost with the correct springs (with no maintenance), they can handle 12k-14k rpms on a NA bike.
Fereia(sp?)makes stainless valves for most bike applications,and oversized for a few.Ti is overkill,stainless will work fine,and are much more durable than stock.
cheers for the help guys point taken a big waist of money found some stainless valves on orient express racing $34 a piece but these are for k1-k3 models does any one know if they will still fit
Just make sure you get the proper valve springs, if they offer dual valve springs then definitely get them. You will never have a valve float problem. Anyone ever seen valve float from a high speed camera perspective? Let me find the video if you havent.
10k rpm valve float with SS valves and dual valve springs that are not strong enough for high rpms. You can watch the spring wiggle, but look at the retainer move against the rocker arm. Kevin is a member of a private forum I am on, very intelligent guy.
As long as you have the proper springs installed, maybe a step higher, float will be no probem. I will ask a few of the pro engine builders if they have a source of dual valve springs for a suzuki engine. However, I will need a year and model. Most of the springs they use are made for them by their design and they sell them after testing on their own drag cars. If all else fails, I can ask them if they can have them built to the specs you are wanting and have them overkill it.
I am going to come off like a real a$$ here and I know it, to some degree it could be my migraine and the meds I am on........
BUT......CMARION1024, I can't help but wonder, you just got you first gsxr four months ago, have been asking very very basic questions about it, I am pretty sure you have never built a sportbike motor, much less never really been inside the one you currently own (I know you said you had a zx7, were into cars, and are mechanically inclined)......
And now you are an expert on stainless steel valves, valve float, springs, retainers and engine building theory?
Please forgive me if you find this insulting, it is likely that I should be banned from the forum while under my migraine induced fog.......sorry.
Not personal.
__________________
1996 GSXR 750 EX AMA, Carillo, Yoshimura, Kit airbox, Keihin FCR39, Fox, Brembo, Hindle, total loss and starter less ignition, Graves, Vortex
Never claimed to be an expert or metallurgist. Just comparing the different theories on Ti vs SS. Forgive me for not seeing the real upside to paying $150 for a Ti valve and the rest of the essential items needed to run Ti. You cant slap a Ti valve in a cylinder head that was not designed for Ti. At the rpm we were discussing, I would like to see a dynograph (to the wheel) of two identical bottom end engines with one running Ti and the other SS one piece valve (not crappy two piece) cylinder heads and see where the real gain is besides hearing the traditional "Titanium is better because its titanium" comment. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and what they would do. Otherwise he wouldnt ask this question. My opinion is the short term gains you would get from running Ti valves and the rest needed, isnt there. You can factor in the cost as being worth it, but unless he is going to keep this bike/engine for a long time (ten years) I dont see it paying for itself. I personally, in an engine, would rather spend the difference on upgrading other components. Instead of $150/valve (going off the above post) to save (what tops?) 50 grams a valve, maybe higher redline that I'm sure wont get used and to say I have Titanium valves. I would use Ti valve retainers and thats as far as I would go with Ti. If you are a baller, got extra money or sponsored then sure go ahead. Otherwise, I dont see this engine going on the Pro Circuit where they have money to build the very best money can buy without remorse. We will use APE for this example as I have read many here use them.
1-Stainless Steel valves ($25/ea) $400 which can be dished or flat, amazing.
2-Dual valve springs for SS valves - set - $128.34
3-Titanium valve retainers - set - $208
4-High performance bronze valve guides - set - $164
5-Hi Perf Bronze valve seats - set - $160
6-Hardwelded rocker arms - $1,040
7-Performance (std size) valve job - 16 valve head $229.00
8-Install bronze valve guides and size for valves- labor only - 16 valve head $135.00
9-Assemble head (Seals extra) included in valve job $59.00
10-Adjusting spring heights when assembling head (if its needed) $50.00
11-Surface cylinder head $30.00
Totals added for you:
$2604 (for non ported) professionally built racing cylinder head
$2400 just for Titanium valves (again, from the post above at $150/ea)
Thats the best I can see on there to throw together a cylinder head full of goodies using their website. Versus just the initial investment for the Ti valves (again, at the above posted price which isnt to far off from the norm).
For the point of this thread, what is your opinion on the gains you would get for going with Ti valves? Try adding to it. Not personal.
That is correct on motorcycle engine building. Never built one. Do I want to, yes. Is the theory and working of DOHC 4 cylinder motorcycle engine really that different than a DOHC 4 cylinder automobile engine? No. Being able to do something yourself is more uplifting than buying a crate engine. Would this be my first engine in general? God no. Car/Truck engine building is another thing and no I am not referring to rebuilding back factory or having someone else do the work (except machine work). There are questions I asked that are basic to you as you have owned this bike for some time. Roles reversed, I would expect you to ask the same ones. Im sure the day you got yours you didnt know every quirk about it, but rather learned some things from others who have done it. Kind of like going out and buying a brand new bike off the show room floor, where is the fun in that? Other than throwing money away. There are questions in the turbo section that seem to be pretty basic to me or the lack of knowledge in applying, as well as system design, or hell knowing how to read a compressor map to match it with a specific engine instead of buying it cause the internet says so. Do I jump in and tell them they are retarded, no. Why? Because I havent owned a "Suzuki" long enough to know anything about anything apparently. Nothing personal, on my up for 24 hours straight induced fog.
I personally dont see the point of Ti valves on a street motor,,,Ti also has a limited lifespan that could get expensive down the road,,,,i have suzuki kit Ti valves in 2 kits heads on my SB yosh motors,,,they're in there because the heads are complete race heads and they were free,,,i also have a bag of kit Ti valves and a bag of kit endurance regular steel valves and i'll tell you,,there's not a lot of difference in weight,,,not enough to justify the cost of a head set up like that on a road bike..most teams who used Ti valves got them for free so it didn't matter to them,,,and threw them out every other race weekend and EVERY race weekend for the bigger teams,,,
This is pretty much the same for the kit front brakepads we used,,they were supposed to be like $300.00 a side,,,but why would you pay that when there's lots of great pads out there for about $50.00,,,the KIT shit is insanely expensive for a reason,,,the factory doesn't want to make a market for them,,,
Motorcycle: gsxr k1 1000 184.5 rw bhp ex race bike day time mot project and xro7 project build
Posts: 1,135
Re: titanium valves 98 srad
xro valaves are bined at 700klm..im have all the refresh time an most of the xro parts and they are all low,the engine was a scraper after 4,500 klm this is the casings,all the other internal parts had realy short times,valaves 700klm,pistion 2,000klm, crank 4,000klm....rods
Last edited by speedy sie; 05-31-2011 at 12:11 PM.
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