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Old 04-05-2008, 07:11 PM   #1
oldboy
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Testing CDI

Does anyone know of a way to test the CDI, I've got fuel, air, but no spark. Only change has been tweaking the carbs. Concerned when pulling them in and out I've pulled on the harness around the CDI box. Voltage at coil reads 12.2 and I get a very loud backfire after trying to start for a few. Anyone ever seen the pickup come loose for the trigger sensor? Or any experiance with boots coming loose. Just looking for ideas.

You guys will ask, 1991 GSXR1100M, bored 1216, head flowed and ported, dyna coils, RS38 carbs

I've swaped coils out
Check all the Spark leads
Checked voltage at coil
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:43 PM   #2
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Re: Testing CDI

I don't know of a way of testing the CDI without the Suzuki test equipment so it's a process of elimination 'til u r left with nothing to change but the cdi. i guess u don't hav a spare, known to b good, cdi.

I had similar problems after rebuilding my carbs the first time. Lots of huge backfiring - foot long flame out the exhaust. Great fun but pretty annoying. . My problem was too much fuel/fouled plugs etc. My float carriage o-rings were shot and bypassing. I guess that particular problem won't b relevant to ur carbs BUT mayb ur problem is too much fuel.

oh! but u say ur not getting spark - but ur getting backfiring?? Have u tried new plugs? and u mention pickups - pull the cover off and eyeball ur pickup(s?). u can test the resistance to determine if they r ok (in the manual)
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:50 PM   #3
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Re: Testing CDI

is it the stock suzuki ignition or an aftermarket yosh,dyna,vance and hines or an ebay special?
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:54 PM   #4
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Re: Testing CDI

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Originally Posted by mark_E View Post
I don't know of a way of testing the CDI without the Suzuki test equipment so it's a process of elimination 'til u r left with nothing to change but the cdi. i guess u don't hav a spare, known to b good, cdi.

I had similar problems after rebuilding my carbs the first time. Lots of huge backfiring - foot long flame out the exhaust. Great fun but pretty annoying. . My problem was too much fuel/fouled plugs etc. My float carriage o-rings were shot and bypassing. I guess that particular problem won't b relevant to ur carbs BUT mayb ur problem is too much fuel.
No spare CDI might be able to pull the one off the Bandit. New plugs and ignition, carbs have just been entirely rebuilt all seals, jets needles and seats, etc. I set it up stock 17.5 pilots / 135 mains for the first run and she ran too dry, went to 22.5 pilots and still too dry (five turns on the fuel screw just to get her close and she should be 1/4 turn) changed again to 27.5 pilots and then nothing has started. I'm pulling the covers tonight to see if the pickup has come loose. Any thought are appreciated
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:55 PM   #5
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Re: Testing CDI

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Originally Posted by BallzFast View Post
is it the stock suzuki ignition or an aftermarket yosh,dyna,vance and hines or an ebay special?

Ballz

Using the stock setup with the exception of the coils, just wanted to get her tuned in to a baseline before I switch over to the Dyna 2000 next month. I've just finished the rebuild (mostly) so its shaking out all of the loose ends.
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Old 04-05-2008, 07:59 PM   #6
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Re: Testing CDI

that is smart. i am doing the same thing with my eclipse.some people say i am crazy.
i have a dyna 200 also but don't need it. i am running the vance and hines powerpak.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:10 PM   #7
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Re: Testing CDI

The CDI box will either work or it wont. Just that simple. If your getting spark then you must assume the CDI is working correctly. One side of the coil will have battery voltage and the other should ground when triggered by the CDI box. If you have no spark period at any cylinder, you need to start with the basics like check all the fuses. Trace the wires from the pickup coils to the CDI box and wiggle all of them and make sure they are not pinched. Use an ohmeter to test for continuity thru the pickup coils and if that all checks out your CDI box is bad.
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:52 PM   #8
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Re: Testing CDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldboy View Post
No spare CDI might be able to pull the one off the Bandit. New plugs and ignition, carbs have just been entirely rebuilt all seals, jets needles and seats, etc. I set it up stock 17.5 pilots / 135 mains for the first run and she ran too dry, went to 22.5 pilots and still too dry (five turns on the fuel screw just to get her close and she should be 1/4 turn) changed again to 27.5 pilots and then nothing has started. I'm pulling the covers tonight to see if the pickup has come loose. Any thought are appreciated
factory pro advised me that you rarely have to go more than 1 above std
pilot,they suggested to up main jets as they have an effect on pilots-my 1100
with 36's are on 153 mains and it fixxed pilot problems-ken
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:10 PM   #9
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Re: Testing CDI

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Originally Posted by BallzFast View Post
is it the stock suzuki ignition or an aftermarket yosh,dyna,vance and hines or an ebay special?
say what!
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:14 PM   #10
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Re: Testing CDI

u must hav at least intermittent spark to get the backfire . . . i think the root cause of ur problem is too much fuel.
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:48 PM   #11
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Re: Testing CDI

Tuning of RS series carbs is much different than CVs and the Factory Pro advice is based on mildly tuned engines and CV carbs, not on an engine with 12:5:1 compression, different cams, larger bore, different stroke, larger valves, etc. One of the major issues you have with tuning in a built engine is you have no baseline to begin with and its got flatsides. You start with the stock carb baseline and work your way up. If I have to turn out the screws five times when the standard is 1/4 to 1/2 turn I'ts obviously lean. If you'll check the first post I've already run through any standard tests I could think of, Voltage at coils, Ohm out the circuits, etc. What I'm seeing is intermittent spark, at best, on an engine that ran (albeit extremely lean) two days ago.

I am going to run through all the wiring and see if anything has been pulled or kinked. So the above advice renders a few question

Can a CDI go intermitantly before it fails completely?
Is the crank trigger at fault and is there a simple test for it? (havn't checked the manual on this one yet)
When going back to the circuit at the CDI is there a standard reading (ohm) that I sould see between pins to verify its funtionality?
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Old 04-06-2008, 01:01 AM   #12
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Re: Testing CDI

OK if i were you I would pull all 4 sparkplugs and lay them on the valve cover. Sit on the bike and crank the motor while you watch the plugs. You should see them all light up one at a time. It should crank very fast without the plugs in so it shouldnt be hard to tell if there all firing. While the plugs are out maybe try drying them off and let the cylkinders dry out. If you dont have spark then come back and we can help you with more instructions. Also if the battery is low it may crank the motor over but not have enough poer to run the ignition. You also might wabt to try and boost the battery too. Or put it on a charger.
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Old 04-06-2008, 01:04 AM   #13
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Re: Testing CDI

yes there is a simple resistance test to check the pickups - value is in the manual.
unaware of any way of testing the CDI without the suzuki tester. That dyna2000 uv got though does hav some rudimentary self checks which may be of help - i can appreciate that u don't want to fit it at this point in time tho'

When i get my carbs out i remove the battery to move the airbox/rubbers back a bit for clearance.Do u do this? - maybe uv disturbed something around in that region but that is the only wiring I go anywhere near. mayb doubl check any earthing in that area too.

hate to suggest it but if this were me I'd probably find myself eventually going back to a known time at which it ran, albeit roughly. i.e with ur 22.5 pilots.

hope u find ur problem and don't hav to do that tho'.
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Old 04-06-2008, 05:04 AM   #14
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Re: Testing CDI

oh i guess ur probably not running an airbox anyway

i would agree with Atomant and think the CDI would either work or not work but . . . well . . . u do hear stories do u?

at wot point did u swap to ur dyna coils? uv got nothing shorting in that area - iv heard of ppl shorting things out with homemade bracketry needed to mount these in the stock location. also, as u r running the stock cdi i assume these r the 3 ohm coils.
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Old 04-06-2008, 05:11 AM   #15
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Re: Testing CDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOMANT View Post
OK if i were you I would pull all 4 sparkplugs and lay them on the valve cover. Sit on the bike and crank the motor while you watch the plugs. You should see them all light up one at a time. It should crank very fast without the plugs in so it shouldnt be hard to tell if there all firing. While the plugs are out maybe try drying them off and let the cylkinders dry out. If you dont have spark then come back and we can help you with more instructions. Also if the battery is low it may crank the motor over but not have enough poer to run the ignition. You also might wabt to try and boost the battery too. Or put it on a charger.
All my o/c gixxer motors hate to start if they sat too long, if fuel isnt fresh they dont pop too easy, check plugs ,if wet then clean and dry them, if plugs are dry, put them back in and take off aircleaners and wot carbs and shoot starter fluid in throats, also put a charger on it and make sure batt is really charged up, helps to start like ATOMANT said, do what he said to check plugs Good luck!
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:08 AM   #16
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Re: Testing CDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldboy View Post
Tuning of RS series carbs is much different than CVs and the Factory Pro advice is based on mildly tuned engines and CV carbs, not on an engine with 12:5:1 compression, different cams, larger bore, different stroke, larger valves, etc. One of the major issues you have with tuning in a built engine is you have no baseline to begin with and its got flatsides. You start with the stock carb baseline and work your way up. If I have to turn out the screws five times when the standard is 1/4 to 1/2 turn I'ts obviously lean. If you'll check the first post I've already run through any standard tests I could think of, Voltage at coils, Ohm out the circuits, etc. What I'm seeing is intermittent spark, at best, on an engine that ran (albeit extremely lean) two days ago.

I am going to run through all the wiring and see if anything has been pulled or kinked. So the above advice renders a few question

Can a CDI go intermitantly before it fails completely?
Is the crank trigger at fault and is there a simple test for it? (havn't checked the manual on this one yet)
When going back to the circuit at the CDI is there a standard reading (ohm) that I sould see between pins to verify its funtionality?

jetting on all carbs i've worked on are effected by main jet,seems a huge jump in pilot size,have you increased mains as well from standard
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Old 04-06-2008, 06:51 AM   #17
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Re: Testing CDI

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_E View Post
oh i guess ur probably not running an airbox anyway

at wot point did u swap to ur dyna coils? uv got nothing shorting in that area - iv heard of ppl shorting things out with homemade bracketry needed to mount these in the stock location. also, as u r running the stock cdi i assume these r the 3 ohm coils.
No air box, K&N pods. Bike has been run with the Dyna coils 2.2 as I'm going to the Dyna ignition. It has also been tested with stock GSXR coils and Bandit coils after the issue developed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotoman View Post
All my o/c gixxer motors hate to start if they sat too long, if fuel isnt fresh they dont pop too easy, check plugs ,if wet then clean and dry them, if plugs are dry, put them back in and take off aircleaners and wot carbs and shoot starter fluid in throats, also put a charger on it and make sure batt is really charged up, helps to start like ATOMANT said, do what he said to check plugs Good luck!
Plugs have been checked with the wire, individualy not as a set, this is where I saw no spark. Plugs were slightly damp but not wet as in really too much fuel. The fact that it does backfire every once in a while suggests I get some spark just not regularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATOMANT View Post
Also if the battery is low it may crank the motor over but not have enough poer to run the ignition. You also might wabt to try and boost the battery too. Or put it on a charger.
Test have been done both with and without external power, this engine is a pain to crank normally so I knew I would have to do that to test

Quote:
Originally Posted by old gsxr View Post
jetting on all carbs i've worked on are effected by main jet,seems a huge jump in pilot size,have you increased mains as well from standard
RS carbs still show a 9-11% affect due to main jet size, however they are are tuned from pilots up unlike CVs which are mains down so I've left the mains as is until the idle circuit is cleaned up
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Old 04-06-2008, 07:18 AM   #18
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Re: Testing CDI

there r resistance checks for the coils in the manual too. I wouldn't try too run the 2.2 ohm coils with the stock cdi for too long - the lower resistance of those coils may damage the cdi. I'd test ur GSXR coils and b tempted to put them back in for peace of mind or alternatively fit the dyna 2000 now.
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Old 04-06-2008, 07:41 AM   #19
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Re: Testing CDI

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Originally Posted by mark_E View Post
there r resistance checks for the coils in the manual too. I wouldn't try too run the 2.2 ohm coils with the stock cdi for too long - the lower resistance of those coils may damage the cdi. I'd test ur GSXR coils and b tempted to put them back in for peace of mind or alternatively fit the dyna 2000 now.

I had the same concern so I did the tests on the dyna coils which show 2.5 and 2.6 ohms. Which is within the required 2.4-3.6 for stock. Also the stock coils may not be able to effectively fire the engine consistantly
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Old 04-06-2008, 07:58 AM   #20
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Re: Testing CDI

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say what!
i guess you have never seen these things.
they say that they are for the early bikes but i would not be surprised if they make them for second gens too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/SUZUKI-GS-GSX-GS...QQcmdZViewItem
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