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Advice for tossing the bike over in corners?

3K views 24 replies 9 participants last post by  DeletantAssasin 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm new to track days with only 3 track days under my belt and I just learned how to ride a superbike back in May. My goal is to break bad habits early. I feel that my body positioning is good. I'm keeping my spine parallel to the bike and my head inside and down.

Feet position need major work. I feel like I'm fighting the bike in my turn-ins/thru the corner to outride the majority of the other guys in the beginner group. Basically, by the end of 4 20-minute sessions on the GP configuration (~5kms long with only 2 straights), my legs are exhausted.

*Saw the thread about feet position.. correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that my problem is that I'm using my inside foot as an anchor, instead of my outside knee and foot??

I feel that the area I need the most work on is getting the bike over faster to improve my corner entry speeds. Problem is that I'm scared to throw the bike as I'm fearful I'll throw it straight to a low-side. Any pointers?

Here's a link to my youtube account. Feel free to criticize where needed. Session 1 is straight garbage. Session's 3 and 4 were the best IMO. Also, ~7:50 in session 3, my rear steps out on corner exit. I snapped the throttle shut and it came back inline. (Throttle off for less than .1/sec, then back full throttle once rear got traction) Mistake?

http://www.youtube.com/user/DeletantAssasin?feature=guide
 
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#2 ·
The following books should help:

"Twist of the Wrist 2" by Keith Code (including DVD)

"Performance riding techniques" by Andy Ibott
 
#3 ·
First off. Have you set sag on your suspension?

I don't think your entry speed is the problem. Rather the control and lines you're taking is wrong. Example: I rarely saw you hitting the apexes of turns. You ran wide. There were also a variety o inconsistencies in all your turns including speed, turn angle, lines.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Just watched a few seconds of "session 4." Already I can tell your lines have improved a lot. Not only that but your speed is very consistent. Only thing I saw wrong was after that VERY long straight you keep running wide on that turn. Recheck your brake point and turn in. Remember smooth and slow is fast.

The turn right after the pit straight looked good, but that turn after the other straight away needs work.

Btw for got to ask. Do you feel your "fighting" your bike to get it to turn in?
 
#5 · (Edited)
Haven't set the sag. I'll do that this upcoming weekend. It was my first time running this track config, so I haven't learned all of the corners. More seat-time will give me improvements on my lines. Another thing I forgot to mention is that my bike shop guy over here swapped out my rear tire from a 180/55 to 190/50. My 1st 2 track days, I ran the 180.. very easy to control - felt really good. The 190 feels equally nimble, but I feel like every steering input (however minute) is ... how do I explain it..

Minute steering input on the 180 equals exactly what I want the bike to do.

Same steering input on the 190 equals the bike going past the point where I want the lean to be.

As far as "fighting the bike", Yeah, it did feel that way on that track day. But I think that is more an issue of feet position and how I'm anchoring myself. I've been putting all of my weight on the inside peg at all times. (and I wasn't fighting the bike until the 190 was put on).

**A.Leopard - I have the DVD of twist of wrist 2. Watched it when I first bought the bike, back in May. I'll watch it again and also look for that book you mentioned. :thumbup
 
#6 ·
You are rushing the corners really, and missing apexes bad, even in the Session4.

the 190/50 tire is a GARBAGE size tire. Get a new tire. 190/55 is one thing. But the /50 is not made for a 5.5" rim which is what a 600 has. That tire will give all sorts of crap handling at speed. Any time you change tire profile you may need to change geometry though.

Working on putting pressure on the outside of the bike might help the running wide issue by providing a more stable bike with ultimately more edge grip.

Id say advice:
Get a new tire, of proper profile
Work on putting weight on outside of bike mid corner.
Stop rushing corners. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster. If get yoru entry trajectory right, you will nail apexes, and ultimately go faster.

Work on corners inside out. Meaning get the exit right. When you get the exit right it will dictate mid corner. When you get mid corner right, work on entry. When you get the entry right you can THEN start pushing deeper on brakes. This is the most effective way to disect a corner and learn it. Some people can do it in a few laps, some can do it nearly instantly, some may take sessions or even days.
 
#7 ·
It's probably a 190/55 then.. The bike shop guy handles many of the racer's bikes and says that I need to get used to that size of a rear, since it's a requirement for the 600 class (not that I'll be racing anytime soon, he just put it on without consulting me). I'll verify it tomorrow when I pick my bike up.

I am rushing the corners.. guess I'm more concerned with being the fastest in the beginner class. I'll slow it down and take your advice on "inside-out" and concentrate on proper anchoring techniques.
 
#8 ·
FIRST piece of advice I should have given you is start leaving the ego at home :thumbup

There will ALWAYS be someone faster. Rather than concerning yourself with how fast everyone else is, concentrate more on how fast YOU are. Trying to "keep up" is only going to cause you to ride over your head, with no reserve, which doesnt allow for any learning, just surviving (or attempting to).

Ride METHODICALLY, not MANIACALLY. You will learn more, in a shorter time, and ultimately be a better rider.
 
#9 ·
I wouldn't say I'm riding maniacally! lol But your point isn't lost.. gotta crawl before I walk; and focus on what I'm doing and have less concern for the faster guys. We have track days every 2 weeks.. once I get back from my vacation stateside, it's game time again! :thumbup
 
#14 ·
Do they provide you any instruction or coaching at the track events that you've been too? If they do I would say seek them out and get some in person assistance.

As Joe had mentioned it looks like you are blowing apexes and are way off line in most of the corners. You need to work on developing the proper line around the track first. After that as your comfort level increases the speed will come with it.

But as I said, try to get some coaching in person if you can.
 
#15 ·
Not that I'm aware of at the Dubai Autodrome, but they do offer the California Race School at Yas Island in Abu Dhabi.

My friend is the one who got me started on bikes when I arrived in-country. My first track day, I followed him for a lap, but quickly realized that trying to keep up was making me exceed my skill level/talent. So I cut him loose and took to learning on my own. He gave me pointers on correct body position and got my knee down that night. Since then, his bike was stolen, so I've been riding solo for my previous 2 track days, with no one following me to give me pointers/advice.

I've been wanting to attend the Race School at Yas. It's a super nice track. It's a shame they don't do bike track days there. *Only Race School*

As MJ stated, inside-out... Never heard of learning that way before. I was attempting to take my lines by a visual point for turn-ins.
 
#16 ·
Do that then......you definitely need instruction. Unless you get instruction all you will be doing out there is practicing and perfecting bad techniques and that is not going to help you at all.
 
#19 · (Edited)
This was my 1st track day since the last vid I posted up.. This is the last session of the day.. session 3. In the first few laps, I'm holding in the clutch while downshifting, (which was new to me, suggested by a friend), but that was distracting from hitting the correct entry speed.. too slow. So I went back to clutch, downshift, rev match. And was hitting majority of lines, apexes, etc.. I also broke my habit of setting corner-entry speed by glancing at the speedometer. All visual cues! I was stoked by my performance at this track day.

I did have a problem in Sessions 1 and 2 with massive brake fade towards the end, which caused me to run off track in a few corners. Sessions were 30 minutes long. I'm running Steel-braided lines, stoptech front rotors, stock MC and calipers, and EBC Brake pads. Was the brake fade due to the extremely long session, or should I change something up? My friend following me told me that I'm braking extremely well... rear is skimming, all the way to turn-in.

vid:
http://youtu.be/_H97t2fUbYM

I was thinking of going with Galfer wave rotors, but I've heard mixed reviews about them. Heard nothing but good things with Brembo rotors. Also thought about getting Brembos RC19 MC.

MOTO JOE: I am now running Bridgestone's BT003RS's.. 180/55 These tires are by far, my favorite.
 
#20 ·
What model pads.

There are two types of brake fade. Pad fade and fluid fade. Pad fade is extremely rare
More than likely it is old fluid that has air and water in it.
 
#22 ·
HHs are not ideal trackday pads by any stretch, but should not get significant pad fade if they were new.

Likely the bleed was not sufficient. Yes.

I have a now to in the "mods and how to" section of the forum. Check it out :cheers. While you are in that section might as well see about cleaning the calipers as well :thumbup
 
#24 ·
For dual purpose or track only?

For track only I recommend SBS Dual Carbon. Phenomenal pad, but they do take a little warm up so they are not great for the street.

For the street they make a sintered metal that works well. It is also the one I would recommend in the rain (not that it is a concern in Abu Dhabi :lmao). I get mine from MPHbikes.com

I also have used Perfromance Friction. They have several compounds and it depends again. 07s are great race pads. 10s are more race, some street, and 95s are mostly street but can be used on the track. I get those from Motomummy.com
 
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