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Kibblewhite Titanium Retainers

7K views 26 replies 9 participants last post by  Wurzel 
#1 ·
Hello,

i'am planning to buy some Titanium Retainers.

Now i've asked over my dealer the german Kibblewhite Importer.

They have a Set with the Kibblewhite Springs. But i think they are not necassary for my valve train, and too strong springs are also not good.

And they sell the Titanium Retainers alone without springs. But they couldn't tell me if they fit the original SRAD springs.

I would guess, that they fit also the original springs. But perhaps someone here has tried this already.
So that i would be on the safe side.


They have also no datasheet with the spring rate, which is also a bit sad.
 
#2 ·
Wurzel, go with a complete set, stainless valves springs and retainers! You will not be disappointed with the Kibble White!
 
#4 ·
less oszilation masses in the valve train.
Hard for me to explain in english what it is good for, so i let it be.


And i don't want to use stronger valve springs.
If i had a diagram with the spring rate i could calculate whether i can use them or not.
But if i use a stronger spring than necessary it has only disadvantages.

And using lighter retainers is a plus point for keeping the original springs.
 
#6 ·
Stronger springs are good for high RPM and high lift, or if the overlap is very tight. It will make sure the valve closes fast enough to not damage anything else.
Too stiff and you will loose power because it will be harder for the cam to push the valve open.

Lighter retainers make for less moving mass, in effect making the spring have to do less work for the weight of spring. So better valve movement.

That is the basics anyhow... I am sure a LOT more detail into why could be put up, but I dont think it is needed.

John
 
#7 ·
I use the kibblewhite springs with std retainers on my turbo bike
they require shimming to get standard seat pressures about 2mm
then the nose pressure is about 7-10 lb more than the original spring

i would definitely check the kibblewhite retainers as they may give a shorter installed spring height .
 
#9 ·
were the springs for the srad or for another bike?



KPM sells two different retainers.

Item # 60-6155 (where is a note, that they fit OEM Springs)
Item # 60-6114 (without note)

I will ask my dealer again, perhaps the importer has the original part number from the Kibblewhite Retainers. If they are the 60-6155 it should work.

But if the installed height of the spring is lower than original it could be a problem like GSX-R Freak said.

If the installed height is higher i could use shims under the Base washers. But the problem is where to get those shims alone, i think they need to be hardened.

Without shims in that case, i could get problems with the long life fatigue strength, because i need a certain lower tension (Unterspannung is the german word, didn't find a good translation)
 
#8 ·
If Maj750 is right, you might run into a coil bind issue and that could be really bad.

John
 
#13 ·
Just under a G Note for the complete set up valves, springs, retainers and seals.
 
#15 ·
Maj: Did you get only the outside spring? From the pick it look like a single spring! The ones I have looked at are dual inner/outer to prevent float and binding.
 
#16 ·
There dual spring , maybe the pic is not of the right springs
I run them with the adapted 07 gsxr1000 cams and hi boost on the 750, great lift capability and they last a long time, not had to replace any yet ,
just a trap for anyone thinking they will drop in without checking
 
#18 ·
:scratch :wtf
 
#19 · (Edited)
pictures in the attachement :dunno


Quote from KPM Homepage:
Titanium Retainers: To further reduce reciprocating mass
which is a lie than.


and i mean they are nearly exact the same measurements than stock.
And if they are really titanium, how is this possible?

i have a titanium link pipe at my exhaust, and it weighs nothing!
 

Attachments

#20 ·
Maybe if the new retainer was built to handle a stronger spring? Not really sure any other reason why.

John
 
#21 ·
I say contact Kibble and ask to confirm the weight! This would truly be a false advertisement and you should be able to get you money back, I also read a speel about how the titanium will not crack as the OEM may.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Yeah i think that would be the best. I hope they take them back.
Could be a bit difficult, i almost waited 4 weeks to get them to Germany via the importeur.
But i'am not interested in Retainers, that are 50% heavier than stock!

And yes i think they will not crack so fast like stock. But honestly i never heard that someones SRAD stock retainers cracked.
If they had at least the same weight as stock, i would keep them.

But 50% more weight.... and that for 300€ (~400$) is not acceptable.
Also concerning that they should have less mass according to their Homepage.



Edit: I searched for some Informations.
It seems that the original retainers are alluminium alloy.
So titan is roughly 1,6 times heavier. 3,6*1,6 = 5,76.
Seems plausible.

But i think it could be dangerous to use them with stock valve springs. Because of the weight!
Actually i wanted to buy the lighter (!) retainers to make it safer using the stock valve springs with my regrinded camshafts.

so i have two options:
-trying to get my money back
-invest more money in stronger valve springs. But this is what i wanted to avoid. This needs higher idling rpm so that i dont damage the camshaft. And this will make it even harder to start the bike by e-starter with the kit-flatsides. when its cold they need lower idling rpm. (tried every fuel mixture, reducing the idle rpm is the only thing that helps) In the summer its no problem, there they start also with 2000rpm and more.

but still not nice, that kpm advertises, that their titaniums retainers are lighter than stock ones.
 
#23 ·
That really is annoying when specialist manufacturers either don't know their own product or make false claims and basically waste everyone's time.

That makes me all the more careful in actually trusting their expertise and other claims.

Having said all of that, I did read the lighter retainer blurb and I figured they were talking about steel OEM and not aluminium OEM retainers.

But hey, they should spell that out loud and clear.

Seems the Yosh retainers are hard to beat, however they stopped Suzuki 4mm production some time ago.
 
#27 ·
just to inform you:

Kibblewhite didn't take them back. No Return......



Last month we measured the valve spring.
One was from 1996 750 SRAD with about 30000km.
And the other was a brand new spring for the FI SRAD
(They used different springs!!!)

We used a machine which is actually for material tests. For example tensile test.

But its no problem to measure springs with it.


Perhaps this is interesting for a few people who want to know if the stock springs would work with different cams or masses in the valve train.

Unfortunately we didn't know the exact installed height of the spring. And my SRAD was 400km away so i couldn't measure it.
So we used a little bit too less way.

Perhaps i will do it again in march and set the maximum force to about 1200N and more way than to block lenght. I think then it will record the full range of the springs. Until block lenght.

We have about 5000 measuring points for the spring with 17mm lift.
So it should be detailed enough. And i have all single measuring pointsalso in an txt file.


You can see that the two springs are nearly idendical in the high lift area.

The red line is the new spring from the fuel injected srad.
And of course it is a little bit progressive. If we had measured till block lenght it would even go more steeper, right before block.
Until 8-9mm you can roughly calculate with the data from service manual. Then there is a buckling and from then its a bit more steeper.



Way is in mm. And force in Newton.
 
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