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Old 06-06-2013, 07:41 PM   #21
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

$250, just get a used brembo radial master. Next time you replace the pads, just use a good set of pads and you will be fine.

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Old 06-07-2013, 04:27 AM   #22
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Krrat I'm on the same boat as you.
I came to the conclusion that the both the stock 6 pots and the MC are junk. One can replace the calipers with the directly "bolt on" 600 4 pots as GSXR-Freak (I think) usually suggests. Should brake much better but still have the shitty MC.
If one replaced the shitty MC and keep the 6 pots, he will have mini midget caliper pins pushing pads on those giant brake discs. I've also read somewhere that this calipers tend to warp the rotors.

Our options (so far)...
There is on ebay a guy from Taiwan that sells the adapters for cheaper. It's the same adapter for the 99-2007 Hayabusa.
I already have a pack o brembo calipers to install in mine, one pad per piston, I've tried these in a Superduke and their amazing. No money for the adapter yet.

As for the MC, from our calculations (See thread "more braking power with less effort"), the 16mm yamaha brembo would be too low, theoretically (is this word right?!). BTW, 16mm is the stock SRAD 750 MC diameter...
I would shoot for an Radial MC from K5, K6, K7, K8 1000 Gixxer or a K4, K5, K6, K7 750-600. They have a 19mm diameter MC, which is almost the sweet spot to use in this Brembo Calipers (they have 4x34mm pistons). You could always get a Ducati/KTM 990-950 brembo MC, they're very good, but they tend to cost more.

I think I have found a MC for mine in the classifieds sections of this site, which require you to have the Red "R" to see them. I've also seen a real aftermarket Brembo MC going for 100$ in there...good stuff!!
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #23
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Hey,
Thanks for the help.

I'm going to try and trade my used OEM fairing set for a brake set up. hopefully I can find someone to make a deal but I can't post in the classifieds for some reason.

Do I need a certain number of posts or something to get the red "R".

Last edited by krrakt; 06-07-2013 at 07:08 PM. Reason: OK,I figured out the red R....Duh
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Old 06-07-2013, 07:27 PM   #24
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Are you making your SRAD naked?! Everyone will see her like that?! Shame on you!! ;-)

I see you already got the red R, hit the classifieds.
About the full fork swap, you may want "Armi" to came by. He done a K5 fork swap if I recall correctly...but that's expensive!
You can start for cheap, 600 4 pots will make it brake better, a newer MC will make it brake better. Any of both are cheap and will make it brake better...even if not "brembo" better... :-)
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:41 PM   #25
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Thanks,

someone just offered me a MC from an 08 R6, will this work?
my guess is it will work better with the 4 pots but will it simply replace what I have without modification?

I'm assuming that there are no newer calipers that will bolt up without an adapter,

If I buy that costly adapter, exactly which calipers will work with my 320 discs, I don't know what measurements I need to fit on my bike and line up with the discs

Are the aprillia brakes that I linked the correct ones?

What is the size/ measurement I should be looking for in used brakes?

Appreciate the help, I'm sure you all are sick of these questions.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:11 AM   #26
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

I just thought I'd add some insight from my brake experiences.
-As almost everyone has said, use 4 pots not 6 pots.
-The stock master cylinders I have used and overhauled have been good. They have been from RGV 250, ZXR750L, GSXR 750M, TL1000S.
-Check the wear on the lever itself, surface wear and wear/corrosion/lack of lube of the spindle/shaft that holds it in place. Cheap pattern levers without the brass bush will wear faster.

RE: the R6 MC, as it runs 4 pot calipers on the Yamaha, it will run the 4 pots on your Suzuki. Trying to run master cylinders designed for smaller calipers is a bad idea. I had a CBR400R once (twin pot sliding calipers) and the m/cyl died, so i fitted a RGV m/cyl as a bodge fix. It was my work bike (courier in London) and i needed it on the road. It was awful. Truly awful; No action, wooden feel, its the situation when bigger isn't better.
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:17 AM   #27
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

I've done the caliper swap to the 4 pots, but haven't had a good MC to go with it. Still, the 4 pots are reputed to be much better (the 2000 750 uses them...) plus they are much lighter. I did weigh the 6 and 4 pots, can't remember, but it was quite a big difference.
Finally decided to go for a Brembo 19 RCS, sick of spending money on the OEM stuff and not having anything working. Probably a rebuild kit would solve it, but after reading up about some people having troubles even after a rebuild, I really couldn't be arsed anymore.


One thing I've found though is using a set of calipers from an MV Agusta. Some of them are 90mm bolt hole mount spacing, so would be a straight fit I assume. Seems quite a few Triumph and TL guys have used them with very good results. Seem fairly uncommon though, so pad costs might be a bit high.
I'm not one for image, but they do look sweet, way cooler than the Tokico's...

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Old 06-08-2013, 12:28 PM   #28
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIT_IFFY View Post
RE: the R6 MC, as it runs 4 pot calipers on the Yamaha, it will run the 4 pots on your Suzuki. Trying to run master cylinders designed for smaller calipers is a bad idea. I had a CBR400R once (twin pot sliding calipers) and the m/cyl died, so i fitted a RGV m/cyl as a bodge fix. It was my work bike (courier in London) and i needed it on the road. It was awful. Truly awful; No action, wooden feel, its the situation when bigger isn't better.
It depends on how it was designed. The 14mm 600 MC is just too small for those calipers. The same as the 750 16mm MC for the six pots.
The Yamaha has a 16mm MC, it should work very well with the 4 pots, theoretically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -JK750- View Post
WERA forum:

"When you design a hydraulic system it's important to have good feedback from the lever as to how much lever force to apply to achieve a desired braking rate. Having good feel, sensitivity and control is the major factor influencing braking quality.

The main factor in designing good braking modulation characteristics is the ratio of the total area of the caliper pistons to the area of the master cylinder.

The Panigale calipers have a total piston area of 5655 sq. mm and has a master cylinder area of 201 sq. mm. This gives a hydraulic ratio of 5655/201 = 28.1.

The RCS brake master cylinder has an area of 284 sq. mm. Used with the Panigale calipers you get an hydraulic ratio of 5655/284 = 19.9.

A general design rule-of-thumb for twin rotor brake systems is as follows:

30:1 - soft feel
27:1 - sweet spot for design
23:1 - firm feel
20:1 - wooden feel

2009 GSXR1000 calipers = 6459.11

(4) 30mm pistons = 4 x 706.86 = 2827.43
(4) 34mm pistons = 4 x 907.92 = 3631.68

2827.43 + 3631.68 = 6459.11

Brembo 19x18 = 283.53

6459.11 / 283.53 = 22.78

OEM GSXR set up, I guess that put us at almost Firm Feel... ~19mm MC

Let's see what we can get from a 16mm Master = 201.06 Yamaha R6R
6459.11 / 201.06 = 32.12

That put us at way too soft..."

I have a Brembo 19x18 and R1/R6R calipers and it's too firm. WSB bikes have 19x18 MC and the high end Brembo calipers have 34 / 34 or bigger pistons...
I have a spreadsheet with the calculations for the six pots and four pots SRAD, but not in this computer.

If you upgrade to Brembo caliper (4x 34mm pistons), the yamaha MC diameter will be too small, if you go with 4 pots it will be in the right spot, theoretically. Also, if you upgrade to the yamaha MC with the same 6 pots, I don't think it will be worst. Instead of a shitty axial MC you will have a nice radial MC, it's supposed to be a upgrade, despite of the same diameter. Later you can get the 600 4 pots. BTW, lines might need to be different for the radial MC, be sure you check that.

I think* (not sure) that most, if not all, axial mounted brembo calipers have a 65mm bolt spacing. That adapter should work for all axial mounted brembos. There is a guy on ebay selling the adapter for half that price, here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZRX1200-GSX1...:WNARL:US:1123
My brembos came from a KTM superduke, which are the same from the KTM 950. I tested the brakes, and they are unreal. Smashed my balls the fist times I braked. He rode in my bike, and needless to say, couldn't push for it cause it felt like he had no brakes. I think some Ducatis and Aprilias use the same calipers.
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Old 06-08-2013, 05:26 PM   #29
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Ok so...here we go

I'm going to be getting a Brembo RCS, and I currently have the SRAD 600 4 pot calipers on after taking off the 6 pots. The numbers for this combination end up in the 18ish area, which is labelled as worse than wooden. However dj_smurph recently did the same, and finds the lever travel to be great when the RCS is set to the 20 pivot setting, not as much on the 18 setting.


If I use Brembo 4 pot caliper figures from above (34/34) it comes out to a more favourable 25ish. Just its gunna cost a lot more money in terms of adapters and a nice set of Brembo 4 pots.


So confused here, seems like almost any combination works out fine for people
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:25 PM   #30
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

I agree, sometimes theory and real world don't match.
Although that adjustable setting in the RCS, I don't think it's the piston diameter, because it's allways advertised as a 19mm diameter MC.

They do have a 15RCS, with a 15mm MC, only recommended for single caliper brakes (the SRAD 600 uses a 14mm MC :-( )...

Hopefully, with any other combination than OEM, you will be better...lol!
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:02 PM   #31
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmp View Post
I agree, sometimes theory and real world don't match.
Although that adjustable setting in the RCS, I don't think it's the piston diameter, because it's allways advertised as a 19mm diameter MC.

They do have a 15RCS, with a 15mm MC, only recommended for single caliper brakes (the SRAD 600 uses a 14mm MC :-( )...

Hopefully, with any other combination than OEM, you will be better...lol!
No, piston is a 19, but you can alter pivot position, so its either a 19x18 or a 19x20.

Grah, doing my head in, especially as its gunna cost a fair bit

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Old 06-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #32
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

It costs but it hold it's value very well. If later you need to sell it, it will go for a nice price. Not like OEM stuff that seems like junk when you try to sell it!
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Old 06-08-2013, 07:13 PM   #33
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

The RCS changes the pivot distance. I haven't been able to ride the bike but I would say that that the braking power is such that it will be one or two finger braking.
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Old 06-08-2013, 10:31 PM   #34
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

brake question! ha, just ordered my new 750 front end for my 600....guy sold me basically everything but the rim tire and rotors for my bike. have the 4 piston tokicos on it but i have a 6 piston set on the way as well...brakes have always felt a bit spongy but i think thats mainly because the fork oil is gushing all over the brake system...made for "saf-t brakes" as i like to call them as no matter how hard you stabbed at the lever they would NOT lock up. needless to say ive had about 15% braking power for the past 4 years now, looking forward to my new inverted forks and better brakes. however will the pads from the 6 piston interchange with the 4 piston? example i decide to keep the 4 piston and leave the 6 piston setup as spares? been reading a lot on here and i keep seeing the "DO NOT exchange the 4 piston for the 6 piston calipers!" i understand theyre more of a pita to get on etc but will they offer better braking/feel at the lever? or is this all dependent on the shitty master cylinder as i know the ones on the 600s tend to be a little 'ew' ha.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:06 AM   #35
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

6 pots flex. 4 pots don't.
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Old 06-09-2013, 12:31 AM   #36
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

I went with k4 1000 forks, 06 r6 calipers, brake spacer from TWF racing, 08 r1 MC, crg levers, HEL adapter so run SS.
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Old 06-09-2013, 02:59 AM   #37
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

In std form 6 pot flex, but if you change every bolts that hold the caliper together to 12.9 bolts and little longer than std bolts it does a big difference.

I say 6pot modified before 4 pot.
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Old 06-09-2013, 04:22 AM   #38
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by ragekiller View Post
In std form 6 pot flex, but if you change every bolts that hold the caliper together to 12.9 bolts and little longer than std bolts it does a big difference.

I say 6pot modified before 4 pot.
I would sway to your knowledge. You are something special engineering wise.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:15 PM   #39
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

yes but 4 piston pads wont interchange with 6 piston ones right? lol....got a set of 6 piston brakes complete with lines and new pads still in the box....my 4 piston pads are wasted and i have a feeling that the right caliper is locked up....dont want to rebuild it because ive never done a sportbike brake before and i dont trust myself.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #40
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Re: Brake caliper upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMRgixxer View Post
yes but 4 piston pads wont interchange with 6 piston ones right? lol....got a set of 6 piston brakes complete with lines and new pads still in the box....my 4 piston pads are wasted and i have a feeling that the right caliper is locked up....dont want to rebuild it because ive never done a sportbike brake before and i dont trust myself.
6 pot pads will not fit in 4 pot calipers. Visa versa

Yeah, being they are a critical component, if you are not sure of yourself, get someone professional to do it. Its always the safest way...well, usually the safest XD

To be honest though, they are simple to work on. There isnt really much to them. Caliper halfs, bolts, pistons, dust and fluid seals, half seals/orings.

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