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Old 01-03-2013, 06:02 PM   #81
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

I'm just marking this thread for when I get to a computer.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:42 PM   #82
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I'm just marking this thread for when I get to a computer.
You know there is a button to "subscribe" right
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:50 PM   #83
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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You know there is a button to "subscribe" right
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:06 PM   #84
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

I am gonna agree with Joe here... Training will only take you so far. Natural ability is ultimately the determining factor, and sadly some people will never discover what they are great at. Like Joe said, the best motorcycle racer in the world could be a fucking eskimo, but they will never know because they are too busy running from fucking polar bears.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #85
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

those damn polar bears!

I agree. You have to be born with it. However you also need to be in the right place at the right time, have confidence, AND determination to be the best. Its a perfect storm scenario.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:30 PM   #86
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

There are ten million little things you need to do well and consistently do well. They're just a little bit better going into every turn and a little bit better through each turn and a little bit coming out of each turn. Add up all those little bits and you end up with a second or two or three- which is what separates the racers and the elite.
At the super elite levels, that's when "natural ability" comes into play. I'm convinced just about anyone could make it to the AMA if it was their life goal from childhood. It requires a fuck ton of work, but it can be done. Now going from AMA to top dog, well, someone has to better at it. Even then, I bet the amount of work you put in has a lot to do with it. You can see it in professional sports that are very skill oriented like baseball. Harder working athletes prevail and those who show up with the biggest headstart and all the talent in the world fail after one good season and taking it for granted. That's the professional level.


I was a fairly good wrestler in high school. I would practice with one of the best in the country who would train with his cousin who was an elite college wrestler under Dan Gable at Iowa (google it). We would spend 2-3 hours after a 2 hour practice doing the same move, or in most days, part of it. We'd drill the same 1/4th of a seemingly simple take-down for 2-3 hours. Same three steps-arm up, shoot in, grab ankle. Next week, grab ankle, switch feet. A zillion times. After doing that, I could tell most anyone that wasn't an elite wrestler I was going to take them down with that move and they couldn't defend against it.

As with any skill you hone in like this, whether it be throwing a baseball or riding a motorcycle or skiing down a mountain, it's all in the details. That's why you practice every minutia a million times.




Cliff notes: They work harder, longer. No real secret.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:40 PM   #87
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Define "make the AMA"

I think I am going to disagree with you there.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:46 PM   #88
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

+1

Getting into the show at an AMA race is not THAT hard. All you need are

1 - a pro card
2 - enough money to pay entry fees, spec fuel, tires etc etc
3 - able to qualify with 110% of the pole setter's laptime


Running in the top 5 or finishing on the podium every week........that's a whole other story.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:49 PM   #89
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Make the AMA as in qualify for a race, or actually be competitive? If you are just saying qualify for a race, I will agree with you. Getting under the 107% is difficult for sure, but is doable for most people with enough hard work and money. Actually being competitive, fast enough to run, say, in the top 15, I will disagree with, as that takes a good amount of work, money, and talent that isn't easily acquired.

Let me give you an example. My biggest dream is to sing opera, tenor specifically. No matter how hard I have trained, no matter how many vocal coaches I have had, no matter what I do, I will never be able to sing like Enrico Caruso, or even Andrea Bocelli to a lesser extent. It is nature versus nurture really, and in the end, nature always wins.
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Old 01-03-2013, 07:52 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL170db View Post
+1

Getting into the show at an AMA race is not THAT hard. All you need are

1 - a pro card
2 - enough money to pay entry fees, spec fuel, tires etc etc
3 - able to qualify with 110% of the pole setter's laptime


Running in the top 5 or finishing on the podium every week........that's a whole other story.
Yup. Anyone that can podium an average amateur race (not a no show race) can likely make the show in super sport with the right credentials and money.

But the superspoort class is a mere shadow of the ama of old. It is a feeder class. A glorifies club race.

Dsb and being more than an"also ran" however is an entirely different ball of wax
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:17 PM   #91
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Spatial Awareness

It's not something that gets talked about alot but natural talent requires keen spatial awareness, especially on a motorcycle during racing.

Commitment

This is probably the biggest one. And its not related to balls its related to being the best you can be. For some people it's easier than others naturally but everyone has to work hard. The winners just work better. With Schumacher he worked with some great people but he received the pinnacle of assistance that had been perfected elsewhere. Its that trying and trying and trying new things and analytically measuring the results that improvements are found. Most people don't have the stomach for this.

Ben Spies had his way of doing things before MotoGp and they didn't work in MotoGp consistently. If both Rossi and Jorge have a soft setup and are achieving results. Don't tell yourself your way is your way admit that your way may be wrong.

In 2004 we were out at Laguna Seca in the pits with Realtime Racing hanging out with PD and JAZ (r.i.p.) and they were going through testing on the new roll center corrected geometry on the TSX. They were able to run a much softer spring which the drivers all hated but laps times improved and the cars were more consitent. They told us Kleinubing pitched a bitch over it until he saw the telemetry. Because stiff racecars are the norm.

Miyamoto Musashi wrote a book in the 16th century call the book of 5 rings. It's based on the art of swordfighting or the way of strategy. I think the basis for everything a rider would need is in there. Understanding and applying it would be another issue.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #92
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It's mind blowing to realize that most of the fast GP racers don't have much track time! They can hop on they're race bike after three months of not riding it and be basically right back where they were last time they rode it! Now they do some riding but that's more training on motocross and motard's.ImageUploadedByMotorcycle1357269674.213871.jpg
Lets hope Ben has a better year!


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Old 01-03-2013, 10:27 PM   #93
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
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the best motorcycle racer in the world could be a fucking eskimo, but they will never know because they are too busy running from fucking polar bears.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:01 PM   #94
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony D View Post
Make the AMA as in qualify for a race, or actually be competitive? If you are just saying qualify for a race, I will agree with you. Getting under the 107% is difficult for sure, but is doable for most people with enough hard work and money. Actually being competitive, fast enough to run, say, in the top 15, I will disagree with, as that takes a good amount of work, money, and talent that isn't easily acquired.

Let me give you an example. My biggest dream is to sing opera, tenor specifically. No matter how hard I have trained, no matter how many vocal coaches I have had, no matter what I do, I will never be able to sing like Enrico Caruso, or even Andrea Bocelli to a lesser extent. It is nature versus nurture really, and in the end, nature always wins.

Don't doubt yourself Ant.......you could be the next Susan Boyle


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Old 01-03-2013, 11:18 PM   #95
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

To sum up. What it takes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by !ThatGuy! View Post
So, technique, education, balls, practice and DNA is the recipe to be a top tier racer. Seems simple enough .
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVS View Post
Oh and money...
That also. Lots and lots of it. Raw skills and talent aside, youre only as good as your wallet is deep, oh and who you know as well(sponsorship).

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George Carlin, biggest realist out there. love that guy. so funny.
+1. One of the greatest comedians IMO.

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I'm pretty sure most the top guys have never even held a normal job in their lives.
I agree, but not all top athletes are born with a silver spoon in their mouth either. Even in the sport of racing where your machine and your money is as much a factor as your skill. From what I understand, Schumacher was from a normal working(not wealthy) family and his parents struggled with funds to keep him successful at kart racing as a kid. But luckily for them it paid off. For many who try though, it doesnt unfortunately. But thats the cruel world of sports and life in general.

For most it becomes a hobby.

A lot of good comments here. I think everyone eventually learns and know their place. While some optimism is good(it motivates), I think its good to be realistic at the same time(balance it). This is so you dont come out with hurt feelings and disappointment(from high hopes). Or just hurt(physically) because you went well above your limits thinking that you could. I know I cant be the best but I try to be good at what ever it is Im doing.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:52 PM   #96
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL170db View Post
+1

Getting into the show at an AMA race is not THAT hard. All you need are

1 - a pro card
2 - enough money to pay entry fees, spec fuel, tires etc etc
3 - able to qualify with 110% of the pole setter's laptime


Running in the top 5 or finishing on the podium every week........that's a whole other story.
Agreed. I'm not saying every single healthy child could be raised to be a podium AMA finisher. But if raised from childhood on bikes (like Rossi) and they worked hard and were dedicated and etc, I'd bet almost all kids could be raised to at least be a mid to low pack AMA rider. I guess what I'm saying is, almost everyone (healthy, not 7ft tall or a midget, etc) has enough "talent" to be really really really fucking fast. Developing the talent is another story.

I bet that I, a super shitty 28yr old rider, could make expert here in CMRA even be competitive relatively quickly if I could quit my job and have personal instruction every day. Fact of the matter is, the only thing all those guys have in common is a lot of hard work. The fastest guy is 6ft (or taller) and far from a stringbean.

Like anything else in life, hard work will take you places.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:53 PM   #97
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous36 View Post
For most it becomes a hobby.
Just because you can't push something as far as you want to take it due to lacks of funds doesn't change a passion to a hobby.
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:05 AM   #98
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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Originally Posted by nj01_6 View Post
Just because you can't push something as far as you want to take it due to lacks of funds doesn't change a passion to a hobby.
+1


Riding/racing is what I'm passionate about.


I'd call my playing golf a hobby
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Old 01-04-2013, 12:22 AM   #99
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nj01_6 View Post
Just because you can't push something as far as you want to take it due to lacks of funds doesn't change a passion to a hobby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPL170db View Post
+1


Riding/racing is what I'm passionate about.


I'd call my playing golf a hobby
Got it.

I meant it more in the sense that they may continue to do it for the sport/fun.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:37 AM   #100
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

FWIW - MotoGP released the following video "The Path to MotoGP" several days ago on their official Youtube channel:

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