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Old 12-12-2012, 06:08 AM   #61
Moto_Joe
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

Hanging off more, stands the bike up. That is where I was going with what I said

If you are decking out and running wide, and need more ground clearence without unsettling the front, you need to stand the bike up. But to continue the same arc, you need to hang off more.

as to your question about Craners curves, I am not familar enough with them. But I am assuming there is little time that you are vertical? Trail braking is going to be key then (as usually is as you get faster) BUT, you will have to be careful about "tying the chassis up" if you are having to start braking on the left side of the tire, and continue as you cross vertical onto the right side.

One thing I always say, is you need to be in control of your speed and your controls at all times, or you are out of control.

There is no coasting.

I am either on the brakes, or I have the throttle open. NOTICE: I did not say I was necessarily accelerating with the throttle open. There are times I am decelerating but the throttle is still open since I am not braking either. The only time the throttle is completely closed is if I am on the brakes.

This keeps the chassis taught.

If you are not in control.. you are out of control.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:29 AM   #62
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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I think you're full of shit. You have a 650. We've seen pics. You known the ones "your step son" posted
hahaha is he serious ??!!
is this the same bloke that was wanting to vandalize someones bike ???
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:05 AM   #63
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

I've not read all the posts so if I'm repeating sorry.
Why not book yourself into one of the slower groups and slow down for a session or two. Get back to basics and build your speed up slowly. Break the track up into sections and learn how hard you can get on the gas at lesser lean angles, maybe even try riding as if you have no brakes, rolling off the gas early, hit the apex then drive out.
Until you learn to control your fear the urge to back off etc will keep taking over, putting you in the same situation and if that leads to overloading tyres or running wide then the next off is already in the bank, just a question of when not if.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:08 PM   #64
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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That makes so much sense.....would keep the bike settled and tighten the turn, right?!

One question I do have Misty.........going through Craners, you go round a fast left hander, which then approaches a tight right hander.....whats the best way to scrub off speed safely.
I slow down too early and upright, I think
Yes, absolutely. Lowering your body over and down will keep the bike stable, won't add any extra lean angle and will tighten up the turn. Kind of like suspension tuning on the fly At the California Superbike School we call it the "hook turn."

As for your question, best way to scrub off speed safely in a series of corners like you describe will probably come down to your visual skills and having really good reference points. You are probably slowing down too early because you don't have a real solid reference point to let you know when to roll off the gas. How might having a reference point between the fast left and the tight right help you in this situation?

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Old 01-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #65
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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Originally Posted by Misti Hurst View Post
Yes, absolutely. Lowering your body over and down will keep the bike stable, won't add any extra lean angle and will tighten up the turn. Kind of like suspension tuning on the fly At the California Superbike School we call it the "hook turn."

As for your question, best way to scrub off speed safely in a series of corners like you describe will probably come down to your visual skills and having really good reference points. You are probably slowing down too early because you don't have a real solid reference point to let you know when to roll off the gas. How might having a reference point between the fast left and the tight right help you in this situation?

misti
How did I miss this for so long

Thanks for all the input buddy..All of what you say is true.
Wow I didn't know you work for CCS.....Do you?

The referance point will help, I think.To gauge how hard and when to brake, after a few laps of experimentation,right?

I just need to put this down to practice.......Might even do Donnington again, as my first TD, just to get this monket off my back....lol
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:35 AM   #66
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How did I miss this for so long

Thanks for all the input buddy..All of what you say is true.
Wow I didn't know you work for CCS.....Do you?

The referance point will help, I think.To gauge how hard and when to brake, after a few laps of experimentation,right?

I just need to put this down to practice.......Might even do Donnington again, as my first TD, just to get this monket off my back....lol
I teach to approach corners backwards essentially.

First find your "assumed line". The line your bike will naturally follow with momentum applied. Gather an exit point marker. Gradually pick up speed off the apex to drive you to said exit point. Don't steer there... drive to it with acceleration. This exit point and exit speed will dictate mid corner references and speed. Now that you have a speed and target to aim for mid corner set that speed early and find the point at which you need to turn in to make the previously found points link up. Now start pushing brake markers back until you are braking from a. Given point to the turn in point.

You just learned and disected a corner.

You should always be braking from a given point and speed to a given point in speed with little to no variation unless deliberate

Without proper markers people are just braking until they aren't scared anymore. This causes rampant over use of the brakes as it takes time for your fear to subside and you to let go of the lever.

Brakes are over rated. All they do is slow you down anyway
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #67
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

Thanks for the words Joe! I will see if I am successful at using them effectively.

I am not as brave as Armi as I am not going to my first Track Day until April and look forward to another day with Armi. I think Cadwell Park is going to be my preferred track with a few others sprinkled in over the Track Day season form me (Apr-Oct).

I have Twist of the Wrist II on DVD and watch it at least twice weekly.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:10 PM   #68
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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Thanks buddy very kinds words and so true....as in I wasn't up for it
May be doing Donnington again in Feb' but will confirm with you nearer the time

I must say though....you have pretty big balls. taking a pristine bike like that on track
Armi these are not kind words but what I feel is accurate.

As far as tracking my GSX-R1000, it is all that I have besides the Busa and I suspect that is not the best choice for a track bike. I have looked at track skins but have not been successful in finding a set. I am sure that it will be fine.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:56 PM   #69
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
I teach to approach corners backwards essentially.

First find your "assumed line". The line your bike will naturally follow with momentum applied. Gather an exit point marker. Gradually pick up speed off the apex to drive you to said exit point. Don't steer there... drive to it with acceleration. This exit point and exit speed will dictate mid corner references and speed. Now that you have a speed and target to aim for mid corner set that speed early and find the point at which you need to turn in to make the previously found points link up. Now start pushing brake markers back until you are braking from a. Given point to the turn in point.

You just learned and disected a corner.

You should always be braking from a given point and speed to a given point in speed with little to no variation unless deliberate

Without proper markers people are just braking until they aren't scared anymore. This causes rampant over use of the brakes as it takes time for your fear to subside and you to let go of the lever.

Brakes are over rated. All they do is slow you down anyway
That sounds familiar......must've read it in totw2
Thing is, every track i've been to,is new to me, therefore i'm guessing at braking points and speed etc.
I hear what you're saying and will endeavor to try it out on my next TD........

I'm gonna go over that chapter again
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:01 PM   #70
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That sounds familiar......must've read it in totw2
Thing is, every track i've been to,is new to me, therefore i'm guessing at braking points and speed etc.
I hear what you're saying and will endeavor to try it out on my next TD........

I'm gonna go over that chapter again
. I've never read that. It is just what I do that works best for me and my students
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:03 PM   #71
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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Originally Posted by TDI2Fan View Post
Thanks for the words Joe! I will see if I am successful at using them effectively.

I am not as brave as Armi as I am not going to my first Track Day until April and look forward to another day with Armi. I think Cadwell Park is going to be my preferred track with a few others sprinkled in over the Track Day season form me (Apr-Oct).

I have Twist of the Wrist II on DVD and watch it at least twice weekly.
I'm not brave anymore buddy.....hence the thread

Let me know when buddy....Cadwell is on the "to do" list this year

Will deffo be doing one in May too, as I have about 10days off Will book whichever is available during that time!

Quote:
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Armi these are not kind words but what I feel is accurate.

As far as tracking my GSX-R1000, it is all that I have besides the Busa and I suspect that is not the best choice for a track bike. I have looked at track skins but have not been successful in finding a set. I am sure that it will be fine.
Have you tried pb forum, motoforum, or TDR?
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:04 PM   #72
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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. I've never read that. It is just what I do that works best for me and my students
Which is why I value your input even MORE so
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:33 PM   #73
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Which is why I value your input even MORE so
Thanks. That means a lot.


A secret.... I've never actually read the totw books. They are too dry and I get bored lol. In have referenced them like encyclopedias though for specific ideas a few times
Lol. I prefer total control by Lee parks
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:25 PM   #74
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

Where do I get hold of that from buddy.

You know Kieth Code even phrased it like that....."dissecting a corner"
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Old 01-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #75
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Where do I get hold of that from buddy.

You know Kieth Code even phrased it like that....."dissecting a corner"
I'm pretty sure I got mine from amazon.com

Amazon Amazon
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #76
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armi View Post
How did I miss this for so long

Thanks for all the input buddy..All of what you say is true.
Wow I didn't know you work for CCS.....Do you?

The referance point will help, I think.To gauge how hard and when to brake, after a few laps of experimentation,right?

I just need to put this down to practice.......Might even do Donnington again, as my first TD, just to get this monket off my back....lol
Great! Yes I do work for CSS, have been a coach with them since the beginning of 2004. I did several years of full time with them and even coached with the British arm of the school in Almeria Spain. Such a fun track. I don't get to coach as much with them as I'd like because of my two little kiddies, 16 months and 3.5 but I'm hoping to do a bit more when they are a little older.

You can get the Twist books from Amazon, Keith just released an Ebook version that you can buy there as well, or if you don't like reading then get the Twist II DVD (the new version) I know someone that makes an appearance in it

You ask about having a Reference Point and how that will help gauge when and how to brake. RP's help with braking reference for sure but they also help with locating you on track. The more confident you are with your location on the track the more confident you will be with rolling on the throttle as well What kinds of things make good reference points and how many should you try to have for any given corner?

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Old 01-07-2013, 02:31 PM   #77
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

WOWEE I feel very privileged to have gotten your input then Kiddies are great at that tender age aren't they....goes all broody

I think 1 RP should be enough for one corner, no
Could be a dip in the track, at brands I used the end of the pit wall to start braking and got braver as the day went on. Or any given fixed marker that won't move
But when it's your first time on track........everything is one by feel....or how scared you are, only when you've gone round the track a few times, can you start making RP, right?

Gonna go over that chapter again about breaking down a corner..what I don't understand is, how can you know where you want to end up at the exit of the corner, when you haven't even been through it yet?Will go over that chapter again.

I've seen the video but feel you can soak up MORE info via the book.

Cheers guys!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #78
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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WOWEE I feel very privileged to have gotten your input then Kiddies are great at that tender age aren't they....goes all broody

I think 1 RP should be enough for one corner, no
Could be a dip in the track, at brands I used the end of the pit wall to start braking and got braver as the day went on. Or any given fixed marker that won't move
But when it's your first time on track........everything is one by feel....or how scared you are, only when you've gone round the track a few times, can you start making RP, right?

Gonna go over that chapter again about breaking down a corner..what I don't understand is, how can you know where you want to end up at the exit of the corner, when you haven't even been through it yet?Will go over that chapter again.

I've seen the video but feel you can soak up MORE info via the book.

Cheers guys!!!
Yes, the kiddies are at a great age, it's a lot of fun, minus the sleep deprivation and the fog I live in during the day.

As for reference points...yes, any kind of fixed marker on the track would make a good rp and you can adjust them during the day as your understanding of the track changes. If you have never been around the track before you can still use reference points right?

A reference point is ANYTHING that you use to give you information about where you are on the track. So even if you have never been around the track before you still use Stuff around the track to let you know where to go right? Otherwise you wouldn't be able to get around it. You use the edge of the track and the apex rumble strips (or the middle of the turn), you might use the brake markers or the layout of the track to let you know what is upcoming. As you get more familiar you are able to remember those RP's and make adjustments to them right?

That being said, you probably want more than just one RP for a given corner right? What parts of the corner might you need a good solid RP for?

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Old 01-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #79
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misti Hurst View Post
That being said, you probably want more than just one RP for a given corner right? What parts of the corner might you need a good solid RP for?

Misti
Going by what I've read in this thread alone.....I'd hazard a guess at where/ when to brake, obviously the apex and knowing where you want to exit the corner but that's stating the obvious, right?
Have I understood correctly?
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:22 PM   #80
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Re: How to get your confidence back???

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Going by what I've read in this thread alone.....I'd hazard a guess at where/ when to brake, obviously the apex and knowing where you want to exit the corner but that's stating the obvious, right?
Have I understood correctly?
Yup, exactly So you want to have an RP for where to brake, where to apex and where to exit. May sound obvious but you would be surprised at how many people don't have solid RP's. You would probably want one for where you turn the bike too

At the California Superbike School we say that you should have a minimum of three RP's for a given corner. The more solid and specific your RP's are, the more confident you will be with your location on the track. The more confident you are with your location, the faster you can go.

Picture flying down a straightaway and knowing that you can hold it PINNED until the 2 brake marker, then you BRAKE until the end of the curbing and turn the bike in, then you apex at the dark spot on the rumple strip at the inside of the corner and aim for the flag station at the exit. This will make it a lot more consistent each time you corner and a lot more likely that you will hit those specific spots and that you won't feel lost on the track, right?

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