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Old 12-07-2012, 11:08 PM   #61
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I thought I remember reading something about Troy Bayliss starting his road race career in his early to mid 20s.
He did. But he was a champion Mx and tt/flat track racing kid.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:17 PM   #62
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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He did. But he was a champion Mx and tt/flat track racing kid.
have there ever been successful top level riders who started their careers in their 20's?
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:34 PM   #63
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have there ever been successful top level riders who started their careers in their 20's?
Probably. But it is extremely rare for someone to develop the skills that late. And if they do, it is even harder to convince sponsors to take a chance when you are unknown and that old. Then if you do you have to land the package that allows it all tin come together as well.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:00 AM   #64
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:34 AM   #65
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I believe that a person can work very hard to get to a certain point in any field of choice, but to be among or one of THE best, they must be born with certain traits and natural instincts that simply cannot be taught or learned. People who say "you can do anything you want in this world if you put your mind to it" are full of shit and they know it.
It's not shit if you put your mind to it you can do anything but what is not said is that doesn't mean you will be the best at it!!!


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Old 12-08-2012, 07:08 AM   #66
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Good thread/discussion; along similar lines of thought already voiced in the thread, I feel that the top tier riders are able to take it to that next level because they have that natural, innate talent that can't be taught and that's why they are the best at what they do - they rise to the top. IMHO, that's what makes them REALLY good.

On a related sidenote, I just watched the Red Bull Rookies Cup documentary vids (search for it on YouTube) and it might be of interest to others who have been reading this thread...
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:54 AM   #67
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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It's not shit if you put your mind to it you can do anything but what is not said is that doesn't mean you will be the best at it!!!


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So if I put my mind to being the MotoGP champion in a reasonable amount of time I can do it? I think not. MAYBE, very small maybe, if I quit my job, raced full time, money was not an object, had as much track time as I wanted and had the best instruction out there I could make a GP grid in say 6 years. Maybe, possibly, proly not. But a GP champion? It would require the right DNA to get there even with all of the aforementioned privileges. Its a hit or miss. People CANNOT do ANYTHING they set their mind to. They might get close, or might die trying, but some things just cannot be earned through hard work and determination. Some things are just God given talent that cannot be taught, bought, or learned.

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Originally Posted by COBRA90GT View Post
On a related sidenote, I just watched the Red Bull Rookies Cup documentary vids (search for it on YouTube) and it might be of interest to others who have been reading this thread...
VERY cool documentary series. This is something I wish I had as a kid. I was always pushed towards traditional sports though, which I excelled at even at collegiate levels. However, even back when I was prob 10 or so I always had an infatuation with motorcycles and moto racing. Unfortunately, my parents just did not have the money to get me one and I was too involved with school sports anyways. Didnt get my first true bike until I was 21. Now Im obsessed. Have gone as far as to sell my street bike and have a track only. Just about all my money goes towards my bike and saving for trackdays, and luckily I have a very supportive fiance. Very much so looking forward to the future.

All that to say, when I have kids I like to think I will let them choose which direction they want to go whether it be racing, football, baseball, whatever. Luckily we now live in a day and age that racing opportunities are greater (such as in the video) for younger kids and can now give them those opportunities that alot of us missed out on. Very excited to see the lap times those RedBull youngins will put down in MotoGP one day.

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Old 12-08-2012, 07:59 AM   #68
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So if I put my mind to being the MotoGP champion in a reasonable amount of time I can do it? I think not. MAYBE, very small maybe, if I quit my job, raced full time, money was not an object, had as much track time as I wanted and had the best instruction out there I could make a GP grid in say 6 years. Maybe, possibly, proly not. But a GP champion? It would require the right DNA to get there even with all of the aforementioned privileges. Its a hit or miss. People CANNOT do ANYTHING they set their mind to. They might get close, or might die trying, but some things just cannot be earned through hard work and determination. Some things are just God given talent that cannot be taught, bought, or learned.
Like I said you can do anything but your you may not be the best.
If you think that way about it your doomed from the start
And no one said it was going to be easy


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Old 12-08-2012, 08:23 AM   #69
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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Originally Posted by !ThatGuy! View Post
have there ever been successful top level riders who started their careers in their 20's?
Max Biaggi. He started racing when he was 18.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:26 AM   #70
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

The essence of what I am saying is this:

If you believe people on the grid are naturally better than you, then why the hell would you even bother start racing in the first place?
Because you hope that one of them might have an off day and you could pick up the pieces? That's a pretty pathetic way to race or compete if you ask me.

Ask any mental coach or former race and he or she will tell you exactly the same.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:50 AM   #71
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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Originally Posted by AnthK7 View Post
Like I said you can do anything but your you may not be the best.
If you think that way about it your doomed from the start
And no one said it was going to be easy


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The example I provided is not a true reality. No one can just quit their jobs and then obtain infinite money to race. Life does not work that way, unfortunately.

There is a huge difference between knowing the facts of life and accepting them as my own reality. I might be a realist, but I determine my own future. If I TRULY want something bad enough, I am going to go for it no matter what the odds. Its a very different type of mindset and I dont expect other people to get it.

Its no secret I am striving for AMA status. I know the odds are completely against me to get to that level. I am fully aware that I am setting myself up for failure. But you have to take it one trackday, one race at a time. Do I KNOW the reality of the situation? Yes? Does that mean I have to automatically conform to it? No. Shoot for the moon, land among the stars. Sorry, that is the best way I can explain my mindset. Its very different from most people and most of you will not understand it, but I know how and why I think the way I do. And it does/will not hold me back just because Im a realist.


Think of it this way. In reality I know I will never be on a MotoGP grid. Its intangible. But for every track day I attend and every race I will grid up for, I KNOW that I can win and I KNOW I will get faster. Win enough races at varying levels and who knows. BUT the right doors have to open. THAT is something out of my control. Its not all about what one KNOWS they can do, and most people prefer to overlook that part in order to get the warm n fuzzys. But the reality is without those doors opening, I will NEVER grid up for MotoGP no matter how fast I become. Thus the reality of the situation.

I know it all sounds contradictory as shit, but I am horrible at describing stuff, let alone a type of mindset that most of the population cant understand. Is it for better or for worse? IDK, I just know its how I personally think. LOL

...........and why do I KNOW I can win every race and get faster every trackday I attend? Because I KNOW I have the DNA for it. I believe in myself. However, does that mean I actually HAVE the DNA? No. I just know I do. See the difference? No? Good.

Now that I have thoroughly confused yall and prob made myself out to look like a twisted dumb fuck......

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Old 12-08-2012, 09:35 AM   #72
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspARRR View Post
The essence of what I am saying is this:

If you believe people on the grid are naturally better than you, then why the hell would you even bother start racing in the first place?
Because you hope that one of them might have an off day and you could pick up the pieces? That's a pretty pathetic way to race or compete if you ask me.

Ask any mental coach or former race and he or she will tell you exactly the same.
I can completely agree with this statement. If you have the mindset of oh Ill just shoot for podium, you need to stop racing for competition. I know some guys are out there just for fun and I get that, but those who want to advance cant have that mindset.

However, Ill go back to my previous post. Ill have the "I AM GOING to win" mindset for each race, but to truly believe I can be a MotoGP champion in the grand scheme of things is foolish. BUT, if by some miracle I do get to a MotoGP grid, I will full heartily KNOW I can win that race. If Im there, I can win it. But getting there is all but impossible. Soooo much contradiction I know. O well. Best I can explain it.

Did all that sound douchey? Not meant to be douchey.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:20 AM   #73
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Ideally I think the term you can do anything you put your mind to is what parents say to there children as the world is theirs for the taking.
At an adult age I can under stand the guys above saying I believe I can improve and win races but I may never start in motogp. Yes I see that but it's this mind set which has held you back all your life.
To get to the top in anything you must believe without a doubt in your mind that you belong there no matter how many people tell you that you will never get there.
When you have that mind set people can see that confidence in you and doors will open.
But its not easy to get that confident mind set as you yourself have to believe it not just make people around you think it.


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Old 12-27-2012, 02:44 AM   #74
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

It's instinct. Genetics. Courage. The love for the sport. Spatial-processing. Having a 'rhythm' on any given day. Confidence. Single-mindedness/focus, muscle-memory, coordination, talent, drive, practice, money, strategy, etc.

The blank-slate hypothesis has been thoroughly-debunked. Dr. Steven Pinker's relevant book is, 'The Blank Slate: The Modern Denial of Human Nature'. Basically, talent is a big part of it, but that talent has to be nurtured. It's both nature and nurture. We are not simple blank slates that can be programmed to be great riders. Great riders are born but they also have to develop that talent.

I'm an artist, so a lot of people have asked me all my life, 'Where does this art come from?'. It's talent and practice. It's both. When people say, 'I could be an artist if I wanted to' my reply is, 'Wanting to be an artist is just the first step.' In other words, you have to WANT something to be something, or at least it helps a lot. Someone who loves art and has talent will excel. Likewise, I'm guessing that like most of us who like riding, great riders love to ride.

Another good quip is this one,

A lost traveler was looking for directions. He stopped a man on the street and asked, 'What's the best way to Carnegie Hall?'

The man smiled and replied, 'Practice'.

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Old 12-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #75
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Born with it.
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Old 12-28-2012, 12:50 AM   #76
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Agree with the above post. Talking with some racing friends, they all got much faster after they started Endurance Racing. The biggest factor in getting faster is SEAT TIME
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:49 PM   #77
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Interesting comment from Ben Spies, a MotoGP rider at the top levels. I though it was relevant here given the topic of discussion of how important certain levels of confidence are for a successful rider. Kinda goes against what some people were saying that you NEED to KNOW you can win a championship or races to actually do it, yet Ben Spies, a man who has won MotoGP races wont comment on IF he can/will win or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Spies
At that point, I started thinking a lot and finally concluded that I haven’t reached my full capabilities in MotoGP. What that is, I don’t know. I’m not going to say I can win this many races or a championship, but I don’t want to walk away and in five years say, I could have done this or that.
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02...ha-for-ducati/
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:57 PM   #78
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

I think Ben made a business decision more than anything else by going to Ducati. Moving onto a Ducati has been career suicide for everyone except Casey Stoner. As long as the bike doesn't blow up or collapse beneath him I can't imagine he'll do any worse than he did in 2011 (which I think was 10th or 11th in the final points).

But I do see his point. He definitely has outright speed and he's shown it several times when he's shot to the front. But I think his problems were both a combination of

1 - bike/equipment/mechanical issues
2 - racecraft: he's shown blazing speed, but he tends to fade, or he starts slow and picks up the pace later in the race after it's too late.
3 - confidence: big part of this being a byproduct of number 1 up there


I hope he has a decent 2013 and jumps to Suzuki and has them build a bike around HIM for the 2014 season when they are supposed to re-join MotoGP
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:16 PM   #79
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Quote:
Interesting comment from Ben Spies, a MotoGP rider at the top levels. I though it was relevant here given the topic of discussion of how important certain levels of confidence are for a successful rider. Kinda goes against what some people were saying that you NEED to KNOW you can win a championship or races to actually do it, yet Ben Spies, a man who has won MotoGP races wont comment on IF he can/will win or not. <br />
<br />
Quote:
At that point, I started thinking a lot and finally concluded that I havenít reached my full capabilities in MotoGP. What that is, I donít know. Iím not going to say I can win this many races or a championship, but I donít want to walk away and in five years say, I could have done this or that.
<br />
<br />
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/01/02...ha-for-ducati/
That is PR spin. EVERYTHING a rider says at that level, positive or negative, is used against them. That was the epitome of a neutral non committal answer for the sake of pr
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:48 PM   #80
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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I think Ben made a business decision more than anything else by going to Ducati. Moving onto a Ducati has been career suicide for everyone except Casey Stoner. As long as the bike doesn't blow up or collapse beneath him I can't imagine he'll do any worse than he did in 2011 (which I think was 10th or 11th in the final points).

But I do see his point. He definitely has outright speed and he's shown it several times when he's shot to the front. But I think his problems were both a combination of

1 - bike/equipment/mechanical issues
2 - racecraft: he's shown blazing speed, but he tends to fade, or he starts slow and picks up the pace later in the race after it's too late.
3 - confidence: big part of this being a byproduct of number 1 up there


I hope he has a decent 2013 and jumps to Suzuki and has them build a bike around HIM for the 2014 season when they are supposed to re-join MotoGP
confidence in your bike is def key to going fast. i actually think Spies is going to excel on Ducati, but I would LOVE to see him go to Suzuki in 2014.
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