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Old 12-07-2012, 04:47 AM   #21
AnthK7
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This s a very interesting question.
And the money factor as said above can play a big part of it.
At the all levels of racing,
It's all linked if you ask me.
To ride fast and consistent you need to be confident in your own ability and your Bike.
But how do you get that confidence.
You can practice and you will get better.
Or you can pay someone to teach you and get better $$$
Then you find that your going faster but on track days you are still not out front.
But your doing everything right.
It's the bike $$$$$
New bike or old bike with upgrades
Your times get better but your still not in front and your getting beaten buy guys on older or slower bikes ?????
You then have to say have you just reached your limit or do you just not have the desire like the guys in front to push that little bit harder or is it that your really just scared to put any harder.
Yes it's money, Balls, confidents, education, ability, but its Also desire and how much you want to be at the front more then the next guy.


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Old 12-07-2012, 08:03 AM   #22
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

I'd say dirt riding is a Good way of staying Sharp , track Riding Smoothly Being One With The Contact Patch
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:50 AM   #23
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

I'd say most of it has already been covered but I also believe a lot of it is simply alien shit. When I used to race a few years back I had a buddy who went out a couple of times to watch and eventually bought a street bike (only previous experience was occasional rides on our street bikes.) After a season of street riding, he bought a hooptie track bike and started racing the following summer. By the middle of that summer, he was a top 10 amateur finisher. He had balls of steel BUT crashed all the time. He eventually called it quits that same summer because he was breaking bones (& his bike) left and right.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:07 AM   #24
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

The ability to process in coming information quickly, reading the road ahead, making adjustment and how much when needed to stay on track and so on. Almost as being a super computer in making the correct calculatoins on the fly for best results.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:19 AM   #25
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

My only imput to any of this is...Peak physical condition. being able to control something takes muscles. seems everyone covered everything else.
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Old 12-07-2012, 10:38 AM   #26
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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Originally Posted by wuzup76020 View Post
My only imput to any of this is...Peak physical condition. being able to control something takes muscles. seems everyone covered everything else.

Physical conditioning is good for one thing when it comes to riding motorcycles: Stamina. You don't need muscles to get a bike around a track, but you DO need endourance to last the duration of the race, particularly when the weather is less than optimal. Do you think Pedrosa is a muscle bound weight lifter? Have you ever actually seen him or Stoner? Those guys are freaking tiny, like horse jockey tiny, but they seem to get around just fine.

Seriously though, a good understanding of technique helps since you can analyse what is going on and what to do to make a line work, body positioning to get the most out of the bike, braking to get deeper into the corner, feel for the tires to know when you are at the limit.

Genetics are a huge part of why some people can get on a bike and immediately be fast though. You have to have that mental composition that allows you to process everything and put it all together. Training can define the sharp edge, but without the talent, training does not do much more than teach technique. I have worked with people time and time again (I am an instructor) and with some people, no matter how much you work with them, they will never be upper tier riders. Never. They just don't have what it takes. Others take very minimal time to get up to speed and just use the information given them to get that little extra bit to give them an edge. That later group can get on anything and be quick since they instinctively have a feel for what the bike needs to get around a track. They can feel what the tires are doing, what the suspension is doing, an dput it all together to get around quickly.

Money don't mean shit if you don't have talent. Take a look at Johnny Rock Page. Plenty of money, some talent, but will never be upper tier. Then look at Danny Eslick. He can take any bike and do wonders with it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:42 AM   #27
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Great responses guys! Pretty sure it was all covered.

I honestly think it all boils down to luck, experience, and DNA. You have to be lucky enough to either be born into a racing family or be rich enough to afford all of the costs racing inflicts. You need to be able to run dozens of trackdays and races to obtain the right experience, but of course all that costs money as well. To run good practices you need the rigt setups, but that even requires a bit of luck and knowing the right people. Then even if you are dripping gold, you need to be blessed enough to have the right DNA to make it to the top levels. Sounds like one big crapshoot to me........God I love this sport!
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:59 PM   #28
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

great thread! I agree its all been covered from having the courage to push and the talent to know how to. After only 2 years of TD's I was put into the fastest group and keeping up with most of those guys. I feel I got there fairly quickly BUT I crashed alot because I aint skerred to find the limit and make mistakes!
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:43 PM   #29
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

While I don't exactly have any track time on my bikes, I used to work at an autocross track. I usually got stuck working on Bike days, with Advanced class.

You can always spot the wild-card out of the bunch, just watch the practice days. Because they usually end up leaving in an ambulance, or causing someone else to leave in one.(ok, not always...but I've seen it happen plenty of times)

More balls than brains, you're gonna be in pain!

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Old 12-07-2012, 03:56 PM   #30
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There is a "pace" that on any track I have been to that I feel almost anyone can get to with enough time,money, practice, and education.

That pace is pretty damn fast. I'm talking top ten amateur/novice race pace. And that pace is not requiring a anythimg more than a mildly prepared track bike at best.

Beyond that it is talent. It can't be bought. It can't be learned. It is a feel. A sense. An ability to process and react when needed and most of all NOT react when not needed. An ability to ignore a bunch of natural human survival instincts that are screaming at you. More often than not natural human survival instincts are wrong on a motorcycle at speed.

And it is a desire to be the best. Not just good. The best. A competitive drive that bleeds into nearly everything you do.

I am confident I could teach nearly anyone who wants it bad enough to go "fast". Going fast is easy actually if you want it bad enough.

I can't teach anyone to be a racer though.

A racer knows if he is a racer or not. It can't be taught.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:59 PM   #31
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moto_joe View Post
there is a "pace" that on any track i have been to that i feel almost anyone can get to with enough time,money, practice, and education.

That pace is pretty damn fast. I'm talking top ten amateur/novice race pace. And that pace is not requiring a anythimg more than a mildly prepared track bike at best.

Beyond that it is talent. It can't be bought. It can't be learned. It is a feel. A sense. An ability to process and react when needed and most of all not react when not needed. An ability to ignore a bunch of natural human survival instincts that are screaming at you. More often than not natural human survival instincts are wrong on a motorcycle at speed.

And it is a desire to be the best. Not just good. The best. A competitive drive that bleeds into nearly everything you do.

I am confident i could teach nearly anyone who wants it bad enough to go "fast". Going fast is easy actually if you want it bad enough.

I can't teach anyone to be a racer though.

A racer knows if he is a racer or not. It can't be taught.
love this!
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:04 PM   #32
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love this!
I may actually expand more Nd make it a blog.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:16 PM   #33
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
I may actually expand more Nd make it a blog.
awesome! please do! Id love to hear an explanation in length from a true racer.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #34
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
There is a "pace" that on any track I have been to that I feel almost anyone can get to with enough time,money, practice, and education.

That pace is pretty damn fast. I'm talking top ten amateur/novice race pace. And that pace is not requiring a anythimg more than a mildly prepared track bike at best.

Beyond that it is talent. It can't be bought. It can't be learned. It is a feel. A sense. An ability to process and react when needed and most of all NOT react when not needed. An ability to ignore a bunch of natural human survival instincts that are screaming at you. More often than not natural human survival instincts are wrong on a motorcycle at speed.

And it is a desire to be the best. Not just good. The best. A competitive drive that bleeds into nearly everything you do.

I am confident I could teach nearly anyone who wants it bad enough to go "fast". Going fast is easy actually if you want it bad enough.

I can't teach anyone to be a racer though.

A racer knows if he is a racer or not. It can't be taught.
So very well said.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:34 PM   #35
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

I am of a different opinion that some people here.

Genetics may play a part, but with so many people around the world being able to go fast, it's not just a question of genetics.
What most people don't realize, is that people like Rossi, Schumacher etc. have all grown up with their respective sport. Rossi rode bikes almost before he could walk. This makes it second nature to them. The older you are before you start, the harder it is to learn.

Many people over the years however, have shown that sheer determination and will can get you to the top. And I am of this school of thought.

If you believe that the person next to you on the grid, is naturally superior to you, then you have already lost. I think that is a horrible thing to have in your mind, and if you believe that, you shouldn't be competing, because you doomed to fail. You don't have the will to drive you forward.

Confidence in yourself, your bike and indeed the people who help you, is everything.

Confidence in yourself, comes from your training, physical and mental. Confidence in your bike comes from a good setup, which in turn comes from the people who help you. If you lack any one of these parameters, you won't win.

To be honest, I don't give a shit what people believe other people are capable of doing. I have always held the belief that you can train and learn anything - if you have the will. Some people learn easier than others, but that doesn't mean that you can't.

However, if you lack the will to do it, then you won't succeed either. People who are good at things, are good at them because they truly want to.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:37 PM   #36
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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Originally Posted by CaspARRR View Post
I am of a different opinion that some people here.

Genetics may play a part, but with so many people around the world being able to go fast, it's not just a question of genetics.
What most people don't realize, is that people like Rossi, Schumacher etc. have all grown up with their respective sport. Rossi rode bikes almost before he could walk. This makes it second nature to them. The older you are before you start, the harder it is to learn.

Many people over the years however, have shown that sheer determination and will can get you to the top. And I am of this school of thought.

If you believe that the person next to you on the grid, is naturally superior to you, then you have already lost. I think that is a horrible thing to have in your mind, and if you believe that, you shouldn't be competing, because you doomed to fail. You don't have the will to drive you forward.

Confidence in yourself, your bike and indeed the people who help you, is everything.

Confidence in yourself, comes from your training, physical and mental. Confidence in your bike comes from a good setup, which in turn comes from the people who help you. If you lack any one of these parameters, you won't win.

To be honest, I don't give a shit what people believe other people are capable of doing. I have always held the belief that you can train and learn anything - if you have the will. Some people learn easier than others, but that doesn't mean that you can't.

However, if you lack the will to do it, then you won't succeed either. People who are good at things, are good at them because they truly want to.
also some very good points here.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:47 PM   #37
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That goes to what I said. I think anyone can go damn fast.

But I dont think anyone...even if they were children trained by the best etc...can be a champion or even top level pro.

Not everyone has the mental ability or athleticism to do it.

Anyone can learn to play piano. Not anyone can be Beethoven/Bach/Mozart etc.
And there are varying levels of that obviously.

I have never agreed with "you can do anything I'd you want it bad enough" mentality.

I don't care how hard I train, ill never run a 4minute mile. Ill never have a 60" vertical leap. Ill never run a 4.3 40yd dash.

I feel I can go faster than average on a motorcycle though. If the right doors open I think I could be a high level pro.

Sadly it is likely too late. That is another reality. Right time right place Plays a lot into it.

The dude who is faster than Rossi/Lorenzo/pedrosa etc might be an Inuit fisherman in northern Canada and will never know it.
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
There is a "pace" that on any track I have been to that I feel almost anyone can get to with enough time,money, practice, and education.

That pace is pretty damn fast. I'm talking top ten amateur/novice race pace. And that pace is not requiring a anythimg more than a mildly prepared track bike at best.

Beyond that it is talent. It can't be bought. It can't be learned. It is a feel. A sense. An ability to process and react when needed and most of all NOT react when not needed. An ability to ignore a bunch of natural human survival instincts that are screaming at you. More often than not natural human survival instincts are wrong on a motorcycle at speed.

And it is a desire to be the best. Not just good. The best. A competitive drive that bleeds into nearly everything you do.

I am confident I could teach nearly anyone who wants it bad enough to go "fast". Going fast is easy actually if you want it bad enough.

I can't teach anyone to be a racer though.

A racer knows if he is a racer or not. It can't be taught.
:*)


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Old 12-07-2012, 04:58 PM   #39
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... wtf is that lol

Did you blow a kiss at me

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:59 PM   #40
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Re: Why Are Fast Guys Fast?

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... wtf is that lol
smiley face with a mole?
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