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Old 11-27-2012, 03:42 AM   #1
BaliinTL
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How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

I've tried googleing this for a while now and I can't come up with any info. Are AMA racing bikes the closest thing to a production bike? What do they have done differently?
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Old 11-27-2012, 05:13 AM   #2
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

A LOT.

It depends on the class because they have different rules. The AMA-SS class, which allows the least modifications, has the bikes that are the closest to production bikes. But even they are very different.

It will vary a little by bike/team/etc, but essentially these things will be different even in the class that is closest to a production bike:

Suspension (front and rear)
Motor work
Bodywork
Brake pads
Brake lines
Exhaust
Chain and sprockets
Damper
Rearsets
Levers
Clip-ons
Wheel bearings
Electronics (Kit ECUs and aftermarket fuel/air controller)

When you get into DSB, the modifications are opened up a little bit. Then those things will be different ^, plus:

Triple Clamps
Rear linkage
More motor work
Master Cylinder
More electronics allowed (Traction Control etc)

When you get into AMA SBK, they are very far from a production bike. The items in BOTH of those lists will be different ^^, plus they can/will have different:

Even more motor work
Wheels
Rotors
Calipers
Gas Tank
Subframe
More Electronics
Frame modifications (bracing etc)
Swingarm Modifications

I know these bikes are called "race replica's" and people say they are "race bikes with lights". But that isnt 100% accurate. They are dumbed down versions of race bikes that are built/designed with lower costs and comfort being priorities.

The AMA SBK is VERY far from a production bike. That is saying "____ bike is awesome because it won in AMA SBK" is ridiculous.

The R1 is a perfect example. The stock R1 is not a good bike. It is heavy, weak, doesn't change directions, won't hold a line etc. It is the worst Liter bike on the market...by far. But the Graves R1 that Hayes rides is an AWESOME bike. But you couldn't build and maintain Hayes' R1 for under $500k a year.

BTW - it is highly possible that i miss a few things in those lists. I just woke up and all of that is off the top of my head.
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Last edited by TOEJAM; 11-27-2012 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:38 PM   #3
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Hey TOEJAM, what about the tranny? Is it allowed to have different cut or say a yoshimura transmission in all AMA or perhaps the later?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:03 PM   #4
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Thanks toejam, that was exactly the info I was looking for.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:04 PM   #5
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

What TJ said.

However, "today's" AMA Superbikes are MUCH closer to their off the floor brothers than ever before. Back before the AMA was sold to DMG, the superbike rules were more or less open to whatever mods you could think of...price was not a concern. Essentially, the only thing that was stock on the older superbikes were the frame and the motor cases. EVERYTHING else could be replaced or changed.

If you go back and look the factory Honda RC30, 45's and 51's, there was almost nothing related to their street bike cousins (except looks). These bikes cost in the neighborhood of $500k to 1 million to lease for the season, not including maintenance or crash damage. These bikes were FULL on WORKS bikes.

I miss the old days and the superbike eye candy.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:08 PM   #6
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

After all those mods, how much faster per lap is an AMA bike over production? 2 seconds a lap?
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:11 PM   #7
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600k2 View Post
After all those mods, how much faster per lap is an AMA bike over production? 2 seconds a lap?
Hard to say but if you put Hayes on a stock R1/R6 and compared his times to a R1 Superbike and a DSB R6, I'm sure it would be WELL over 2 sec per lap.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:25 PM   #8
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600k2 View Post
After all those mods, how much faster per lap is an AMA bike over production? 2 seconds a lap?
WSB still has pretty free rules. Compare WSB & Superstock lap times and it should give you an idea of the difference. Tires of course make a small difference.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOEJAM View Post
A LOT.

It depends on the class because they have different rules. The AMA-SS class, which allows the least modifications, has the bikes that are the closest to production bikes. But even they are very different.

It will vary a little by bike/team/etc, but essentially these things will be different even in the class that is closest to a production bike:

Suspension (front and rear)
Motor work
Bodywork
Brake pads
Brake lines
Exhaust
Chain and sprockets
Damper
Rearsets
Levers
Clip-ons
Wheel bearings
Electronics (Kit ECUs and aftermarket fuel/air controller)

When you get into DSB, the modifications are opened up a little bit. Then those things will be different ^, plus:

Triple Clamps
Rear linkage
More motor work
Master Cylinder
More electronics allowed (Traction Control etc)

When you get into AMA SBK, they are very far from a production bike. The items in BOTH of those lists will be different ^^, plus they can/will have different:

Even more motor work
Wheels
Rotors
Calipers
Gas Tank
Subframe
More Electronics
Frame modifications (bracing etc)
Swingarm Modifications

I know these bikes are called "race replica's" and people say they are "race bikes with lights". But that isnt 100% accurate. They are dumbed down versions of race bikes that are built/designed with lower costs and comfort being priorities.

The AMA SBK is VERY far from a production bike. That is saying "____ bike is awesome because it won in AMA SBK" is ridiculous.

The R1 is a perfect example. The stock R1 is not a good bike. It is heavy, weak, doesn't change directions, won't hold a line etc. It is the worst Liter bike on the market...by far. But the Graves R1 that Hayes rides is an AWESOME bike. But you couldn't build and maintain Hayes' R1 for under $500k a year.

BTW - it is highly possible that i miss a few things in those lists. I just woke up and all of that is off the top of my head.
With all that said though... the differences you listed don't make as huge of a difference as some may think over stock... in the grand scheme of things. Those dudes are just that talented.

For example I remember jeremy toye taking a true stock r1 (mudflap and all) minus mirrors, with race glass up front and some brake pads back when super bikes were true super bikes and putting in the top ten at Fontana, back when there were 15 factory riders.

Or like in in the SS class now. A bike like mine which is about as basic as most street bikes that are mildly modded plus suspension can make the ama grid and not suck.

So in that sense they still are really repliracers. Stock or damn close to stock they are DAMN capable.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 600k2 View Post
After all those mods, how much faster per lap is an AMA bike over production? 2 seconds a lap?
True production? I'd bet more like 5 seconds per lap on 600s. Maybe even more.

Lightly modded track/clubrace bike like mine to fully prepped ama bike is more like 2 seconds probably.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:52 PM   #11
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Today's bikes are also a lot more competitive due to advances in technology and it becoming more affordable.

A full stock bike now is a MUCH better bike than what was available in the early 90s, even heavily modded. Not that older bikes are not competitive, but in terms of ease to ride.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:11 PM   #12
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Also remember that while 2 seconds difference doesn't sound like a lot, it would be a full minute in a 30 lap race - just on hardware differences...
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #13
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

How much different are AMA racing bikes

Very

Other than a factory appearance with oem looking race plastics and the frame, thats it.

Oh and maybe the engine block. Nothing else on the bikes are oem
.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:16 PM   #14
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1/4milecrazy View Post
Today's bikes are also a lot more competitive due to advances in technology and it becoming more affordable.

A full stock bike now is a MUCH better bike than what was available in the early 90s, even heavily modded. Not that older bikes are not competitive, but in terms of ease to ride.
So could a stock production bike of today give a 90s AMA spec bike a run for its money?

How would my old stock k4 hold up?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:20 PM   #15
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous36 View Post
How much different are AMA racing bikes

Very

Other than a factory appearance with oem looking race plastics and the frame, thats it.

Oh and maybe the engine block. Nothing else on the bikes are oem
.
If you're talking about the current AMA super bikes, you are very wrong. Oem forks are on all of the factory bikes (most with Ohlins internals), most of the motor is there but can be modified and the OEM swingarm is still being used.

In the past, all of that was either highly modified or replaced.
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #16
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Quote:
Originally Posted by njracer View Post
If you're talking about the current AMA super bikes, you are very wrong. Oem forks are on all of the factory bikes (most with Ohlins internals), most of the motor is there but can be modified and the OEM swingarm is still being used.

In the past, all of that was either highly modified or replaced.
Oh didnt know that changed. How would my k4 compare to a old ama bike of the 90s?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:31 PM   #17
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

Are they rebuilding the engines on those bikes after every race? That's why you say it would cost about $500k a year to maintain?
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Old 11-27-2012, 02:33 PM   #18
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

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Oh didnt know that changed. How would my k4 compare to a old ama bike of the 90s?
With you riding it??
The same way it will against a MotoGP bike.


With Scott Russel riding it??
better than you could ever ride it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:12 PM   #19
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Re: How much different are AMA racing bikes to there production version?

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Originally Posted by Moto_Joe View Post
With all that said though... the differences you listed don't make as huge of a difference as some may think over stock... in the grand scheme of things. Those dudes are just that talented.

For example I remember jeremy toye taking a true stock r1 (mudflap and all) minus mirrors, with race glass up front and some brake pads back when super bikes were true super bikes and putting in the top ten at Fontana, back when there were 15 factory riders.

Or like in in the SS class now. A bike like mine which is about as basic as most street bikes that are mildly modded plus suspension can make the ama grid and not suck.

So in that sense they still are really repliracers. Stock or damn close to stock they are DAMN capable.
That's not entirely true.

The parts don't make the bike faster automatically. They allow they team to set up the bike properly, and setup is what allows a bike to go faster.
The fast guys would crash twice as fast or even more without the parts they have.
Of course talent is a part, but the machine is what enables them to use their talent. If the tool isn't up to the job, then it doesn't matter how good your skill level is. You can only make up for so much.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaspARRR View Post
That's not entirely true.

The parts don't make the bike faster automatically. They allow they team to set up the bike properly, and setup is what allows a bike to go faster.
The fast guys would crash twice as fast or even more without the parts they have.
Of course talent is a part, but the machine is what enables them to use their talent. If the tool isn't up to the job, then it doesn't matter how good your skill level is. You can only make up for so much.
I never said full proper race bikes aren't better. They absolutely are.

He said they aren't really repliracers. I disagree. They are damn capable stock. They can win races at many levels with the right rider and do respectably well at the top levels stock with the right rider.

So in that sense they absolutely are race bikes with lights and mirrors. That is not to say a proper race bike isn't better in every way though. Just stock bikes are way better than most anyone can fathom.
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