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Old 10-19-2012, 09:32 PM   #1
cheyenneboxer
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more power for less

I already have a 1070 big bore and cams but no port and polish (no head work). I am going to swap my 01 k1 cylinder head, ecu, air box, wire harness, throttle bodies and exhaust (after market) from whats on the 01 k1 now and swap all the same things from 07-08 k1. But I am keeping my web cams and place them in the new 07-08 head. Place it all on the 01 k1 bottom. Basically swapping the top end etc. Any questions, comments or suggestions?
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:25 AM   #2
Mike Edwards
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Re: more power for less

Obvious question is why?
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Old 10-20-2012, 03:58 AM   #3
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Re: more power for less

Um... Yeah. What benefit do you expect? To clarify, what year engine do you have now, 01?
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Old 10-20-2012, 04:46 AM   #4
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Re: more power for less

That combo is a common one with drag racers and with guys who run turbo/nitrous. The K1/2 cases/block are the strongest of all the 1000's and the K7/8 head flows the best. Plus you now have the benefit of using ECU Editor to flash the K7/8 ECU which is a huge advantage compared to older years. This swap been done many many times
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:39 AM   #5
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Re: more power for less

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldgixxer View Post
That combo is a common one with drag racers and with guys who run turbo/nitrous. The K1/2 cases/block are the strongest of all the 1000's and the K7/8 head flows the best. Plus you now have the benefit of using ECU Editor to flash the K7/8 ECU which is a huge advantage compared to older years. This swap been done many many times
How much more horsepower should I look to gain from that set up?
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Old 10-24-2012, 03:32 PM   #6
JP1143
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Re: more power for less

Hard to say how much hp you will gain, but you should see a solid 10hp easy with that swap. You might even see more... To many variables to really say how much.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:33 PM   #7
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Re: more power for less

I'd GUESS about 5 to 10 hp putting the K7/K8 head. From what I've heard, the K7 motor is worth about 10 hp over the K3/K4 motor, with the same mods

Most of that power is in the cylinder head setup (and with that I'm including what supports it - the bigger throttlebodies - 44 v 42mm, exhaust, etc). Of course, the big windage ports on the K7 are probably worth a few HP... they are there for a reason... and putting that head on a K1/K2 lower end will mean you dont have the crankcase windage holes like you would if you ran a full K7 setup.

But, are you planning on trying to keep all the K1/K2 parts except for the cylinder head?? I'm not sure how to read what you wrote. I ask because the K7 requires matching (K7) throttlebodies, which means a different ECU. Also, the K7 uses a different exhaust, which I believe is due to the different exhaust port dimensions (size and/or spacing). I can't remember whether people have been able to "bolt up" an earlier (k1-k6) exhaust to the K7 head, whether it physically fits or not, but either way, the K7 is SUPPOSED to have a matching exhaust (ie, for a K7). Even if the earlier one bolted up I dont think you'd get the power out of it that you should

Also, if you swap ECU's you'll need to swap the ignition rotor, the pickups are different for the K1/K2 v K3-K8 (different number of points, due I believe to the change in the number of bits of the processor - 32bit v 16bit)

And if you go with a K7 exhaust, I dont know if it will work with the earlier oil pan. The K7 went to a deep rectangular sump on one side vs the earlier bikes that used an inverted pyramid shape. And if you swapped oil pans to fit, you'd need to swap out the oil pickup at least....

The K1/K2 cams will NOT work with the K7 head, not without modification. The pin on the cams for the camshaft position sensor is repositioned.... its about a 5 or 10 degree offset. I've heard of Busa guys running an offset pin to accomodate certain cam swaps (where the pin isn't straight, but is instead at an angle). Dont know if that is possible here or not.

Btw, I know that people do these swaps / combinations are possible (K1/K2 cases with later heads), but I dont know the particulars of how they make it work, so take some of my comments with a grain of salt. I'm sure that there is someone here that can tell you exactly how to make this work... but thats not me. Just giving you some potential issues to watch out for

Oh, one last thing, when it comes to the K7 heads, make SURE the valves are in good shape. Those Ti valves are easily damaged, and are EXPENSIVE to replace. And whatever you do, do NOT try to hand lap them!!
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:38 PM   #8
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Re: more power for less

Quote:
Originally Posted by IridiumRed View Post
I'd GUESS about 5 to 10 hp putting the K7/K8 head. From what I've heard, the K7 motor is worth about 10 hp over the K3/K4 motor, with the same mods

Most of that power is in the cylinder head setup (and with that I'm including what supports it - the bigger throttlebodies - 44 v 42mm, exhaust, etc). Of course, the big windage ports on the K7 are probably worth a few HP... they are there for a reason... and putting that head on a K1/K2 lower end will mean you dont have the crankcase windage holes like you would if you ran a full K7 setup.

But, are you planning on trying to keep all the K1/K2 parts except for the cylinder head?? I'm not sure how to read what you wrote. I ask because the K7 requires matching (K7) throttlebodies, which means a different ECU. Also, the K7 uses a different exhaust, which I believe is due to the different exhaust port dimensions (size and/or spacing). I can't remember whether people have been able to "bolt up" an earlier (k1-k6) exhaust to the K7 head, whether it physically fits or not, but either way, the K7 is SUPPOSED to have a matching exhaust (ie, for a K7). Even if the earlier one bolted up I dont think you'd get the power out of it that you should

Also, if you swap ECU's you'll need to swap the ignition rotor, the pickups are different for the K1/K2 v K3-K8 (different number of points, due I believe to the change in the number of bits of the processor - 32bit v 16bit)

And if you go with a K7 exhaust, I dont know if it will work with the earlier oil pan. The K7 went to a deep rectangular sump on one side vs the earlier bikes that used an inverted pyramid shape. And if you swapped oil pans to fit, you'd need to swap out the oil pickup at least....

The K1/K2 cams will NOT work with the K7 head, not without modification. The pin on the cams for the camshaft position sensor is repositioned.... its about a 5 or 10 degree offset. I've heard of Busa guys running an offset pin to accomodate certain cam swaps (where the pin isn't straight, but is instead at an angle). Dont know if that is possible here or not.

Btw, I know that people do these swaps / combinations are possible (K1/K2 cases with later heads), but I dont know the particulars of how they make it work, so take some of my comments with a grain of salt. I'm sure that there is someone here that can tell you exactly how to make this work... but thats not me. Just giving you some potential issues to watch out for

Oh, one last thing, when it comes to the K7 heads, make SURE the valves are in good shape. Those Ti valves are easily damaged, and are EXPENSIVE to replace. And whatever you do, do NOT try to hand lap them!!
Thanks for all the information. My builder has done the mod before and promises a great outcome. Yes I will change the ecu and exhaust system as well. I was concerned about the fit of the exhaust with the oil pan but my builder said that will not be an issue; so I can take his word for it. I trust him totally. As far as the cams, I have adjustable aftermarket web cams. I am sure if that remedy your question about cams not fitting. If there is anything else that you may deem necessary please comment. Thank you again.

Last edited by cheyenneboxer; 11-04-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:37 AM   #9
T.R.E
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Re: more power for less

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyenneboxer View Post
Thanks for all the information. My builder has done the mod before and promises a great outcome. Yes I will change the ecu and exhaust system as well. I was concerned about the fit of the exhaust with the oil pan but my builder said that will not be an issue; so I can take his word for it. I trust him totally. As far as the cams, I have adjustable aftermarket web cams. I am sure if that remedy your question about cams not fitting. If there is anything else that you may deem necessary please comment. Thank you again.
I've done this swap with a friend,K7 cylinder head-throttle bodies-airbox-ECU-and harness.

As Iridium said,you'll need the oilpan of the 07/08 model if you are running 07 exhaust. 01-06 will bolt with slight mods depending on the exhaust but it's not optimal...
Also the K7 cylinder head has no engine mounts on it,so you'll need to make some.
The airbox will sit a little short and a little low in the K2 frame,so you'll need to extend it a bit...

A K3/K4 with thin head gasket,ported head ( K3 head) k5 cams-full Yoshi exhaust made 171 hp on his dyno. ( before the porting ,thin head gasket and K5 cams it made 155)

My friends K3 with K7 ported head,thin head gasket,stock K7 cams and full arata exhaust,made 175 ( rev limit increased to 14.000 rpm)...
Now it has Pipercams PS24 cams and it makes 180+,but not sure exactly how many until the weather allows to tune the fueling a bit,and the most important thing we haven't done,to xlose the gap between the frame and the airbox so it can seal properly...
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