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Old 11-12-2012, 10:06 PM   #1
jackbird_xx
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Performance Machine - cush

Good evening.

Over the past few years, there has been much discussion about Performance Machines wheels... such as the Chicane, and Cyclone. These wheels come in both race AND street weights.

One point that continually comes up, is the question of a cush drive. I have attached 2 images with this thread. The first pic shows a Chicane wheel, sprocket mounted, and a very nice specimen. The 2nd image shows a Cyclone in need of some TLC ... BUT notice the circular "cush" drive mounted in the centre.

Let me mention that the first picture (PM Chicane) was from a local seller in Ontario. When asked about the "cush" drive ... I was told that the Chicane was a race wheel, and that the cush is built into the hub - below where the sprocket is bolted to the wheel. I've seen PM wheels before, and although I do not pretend to be an expert ... I am somewhat skeptical.

Perhaps we can have someone shed a little light on PM wheels ... and this will be the "sticky" that binds us all together.

Looking forward to your responses. BTW - Pics of your PM wheels are most welcome!!

Cheers.
jb_xx
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PM_chicane.JPG (53.2 KB, 256 views)
File Type: jpg pm_cush.JPG (90.5 KB, 257 views)
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:46 PM   #2
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

My set of PMs came with a Cush drive and it looks like the one in your second picture. I'll get some pics posted later this week when I'm back home.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:05 AM   #3
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

Pm sent in regards to those pics��
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #4
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

I had a set of PM Chicane's for one season. There is no cush drive. One ride and you would not need to ask that question.

The difference between the street and race version was the the thickness of the aluminum sheet used to form the wheel. Nothing to do with the hub. I had the street version and they were very heavy.

They look nice and very old school, but they are not a performance mod.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:40 AM   #5
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

I currently have 3 sets of Chicane PM's. and have fit several more sets. 2 of my sets are Race" wheels ant 1 set is "Street" wheels. The race wheels are lighter and a lot easier to bent while doing tire swaps etc.
There is No cush drive on any of my sets. I have always used a cush front sprocket on my street bikes fitted with PM's.

I strongly disagree with Tillerpilot tho. They are most definitely a Performance Mod. They weigh half what stock wheels weigh. Even the street version is considerably lighter than stock.

Tell you what I will weigh a stocker, an 09 gsxr wheel, and a PM and take pics of all 3 to show the differences.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:56 AM   #6
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyc9928 View Post
I currently have 3 sets of Chicane PM's. and have fit several more sets. 2 of my sets are Race" wheels ant 1 set is "Street" wheels. The race wheels are lighter and a lot easier to bent while doing tire swaps etc.
There is No cush drive on any of my sets. I have always used a cush front sprocket on my street bikes fitted with PM's.

I strongly disagree with Tillerpilot tho. They are most definitely a Performance Mod. They weigh half what stock wheels weigh. Even the street version is considerably lighter than stock.

Tell you what I will weigh a stocker, an 09 gsxr wheel, and a PM and take pics of all 3 to show the differences.
got a pm wheel for a fzr 400/600 project this year- havent got into it yet,
whats a cush front sproket? where do i find one?
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:03 AM   #7
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

I'll post a pic of that too. You don't need it and it is not like a rear cush. Just a little insurance for the trans
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:50 AM   #8
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

WHat size PMs did they make?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:24 AM   #9
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

There is a picture of my PM rear wheel with the Cush drive in post #87 in my build thread.

Also, my front is a 17x3.5 and my rear is a 17x6.25. I had to have a lot of work done to get these to work though.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #10
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyc9928 View Post

I strongly disagree with Tillerpilot tho. They are most definitely a Performance Mod. They weigh half what stock wheels weigh. Even the street version is considerably lighter than stock.

Tell you what I will weigh a stocker, an 09 gsxr wheel, and a PM and take pics of all 3 to show the differences.
Weigh the Street version, they are damn close to stock 98 rims. I replaced them with 5 spoke Marchesini Mags, now that was a performance mod.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:55 PM   #11
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

i tend to agree with Tillerpilot,,PM's are not exactly a performance mod,,,especially the street version which ways a ton..LOL...Marchesini's or magnesium anything else is probably a lot more of a performance mod,,,but the the PM is definitely a period correct wheel for our old gixxers,,,never did consider PM's a true race wheel,,
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:19 PM   #12
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

PM wheels are shown on a variety of bikes - Kawi/Yamaha/Suzuki, in racing, so they were considered for their lighter-than-stock weight. The street version isn't exactly a cow for weight ... but then again - it really isn't supposed to be imitating magnesium. Mag wheels for the street are just not advisable, particularly OLD mag wheels.

I recall a previous thread which discussed PM wheels - race & street weights vs. stock. Anyone care to post weights of their stock wheels: '85-'87 750 & '86-'88 1100 GSX-R ... as well as '88-'90 750. In a separate column, list the weights of your PM Chicane and/or Cyclone wheels... possibly with tires mounted less rotors weight.

This would be a good sticky - for future members looking for info. on the subject matter of Performance Machine wheels (re: 1st & 2nd gen GSX-R)

jb_xx
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:20 AM   #13
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

that's strange that magnesium should not be used on the street,,there seems to a lot of car wheels made of mag right from the factory and they seem to hold up fine,,,
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:02 AM   #14
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

That not running them on the street is a load of crap. I ran the 3 spokes on a 94 1100W for 6 years and 10K miles and 5 spokes on a TLR for 5 years and 9K miles and the person I ride with did about the same on a ZX7 and a TLR. My brother has them on a GSXR1000, with a ton of miles. Not a single issue and all of them are still on the road

It's the biggest improvement that you will ever make. It completely changes the bike. When you think that you want a new bike, just buy new Mags and it will put the smile back on your face.

The new forged aluminum wheels, like PVM makes, are so close to Mag. now, that you can run those with very little difference in weight, but saves a ton of money.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:22 AM   #15
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hootguy View Post
that's strange that magnesium should not be used on the street,,there seems to a lot of car wheels made of mag right from the factory and they seem to hold up fine,,,
That's a pretty generalized statement, and considering what "some folks" choose to use on the street ... well, cars to bikes is like comparing apples to oranges Mario.

Race bike = extreme light weight, short term use, consistent excessive speeds, frequent maintenance and hefty parts turnaround.

Street bike = dependable parts for long term use


Choosing what type of bike to use, and how it's to be used (e.g. - street, dirt, combination track/street, or direct racing) directly relates to the parts you choose.

Aluminum rims can bend when encountering a large pothole. Magnesium rims, however, can crack and fail - leading to failure of the entire wheel. Such a failure can cause a rider to lose control of their bike. Magnesium rims need to be replaced more often than aluminum, but durability will degrade less with regular maintenance. The probability of an average rider inspecting magnesium wheels on a regular basis, and the cost associated with it - would deter the choice of using this compound.

Choosing OLD mag wheels for street riding (or even track-use), as previously mentioned... is an even greater gamble. Please note we're discussing motorcycles here, so whatever those car-guys want to do - is fine, just remember they have 4-wheels - with doors to a framed capsule. You know what happens when a wheel goes out on a motorcycle yeah? ... well, it ain't pretty.

It's fairly safe to say we won't be seeing mag wheels on mass-produced cars from the factory, anytime soon. Cost to the consumer, longevity, and durability - are just three factors into why that won't happen.

So ... anyone have some specs/pics of their PM wheels, mounted or otherwise?

Cheers.
jb_xx
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:52 AM   #16
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

I guess Chuck Graves, Lockhart Phillips, Team Valvoline and Many others ran them because they are no lighter than stock wheels...

Maybe NOW! you can get lighter wheels like carbon fiber or some space alloy. That crap didn't exist back then. At least not for the average consumer.

Get in your time machine and go back to 1988 and put in an order and see where that takes you.

Period correct people! That is all we are interested in.

Magnesium wheels are "Race Only" wheels. Not DOT. The manufacturers of these high end light weight wheels will tell you that when you buy them. What you do with them is your decision. They will live on the street. But they are not designed to take the abuse of pot holes and speed bumps etc. Has anyone got a set of (period correct) Mag wheels with a D.O.T stamp on them? I have never seen one but would like to if they exist.

Forged is the way to go for all around goodness.
What I think is a shame is that now PM. only makes Harley garbage and tuner crap for ZX14's and Busa. Call them and ask about the old stuff. Crickets.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:26 AM   #17
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

This is a Street version of a PM Chicane 5.5 rear with an oldschool Dunlop 207. Rotor and sprocket ready to run. The tire is heavy by todays standards but this is what was available at the time.



This is a 2009 GSXR 750 rear 5.5 in ready to run condition with a modern Pilot Power on it.


I don't have any with the tires off but you can see there is a difference. I have a pm with modern Pilot Sports on them . If I get a chance I will remove them for some weights.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:04 AM   #18
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

Thanks Tony.

So the street version PM 5.5 is 1.8 lbs lighter than an '09 750 5.5 stocker. Interesting.

I'll do a similar check on my street vers. PM 5.5 ... with the Michelin Pilot 180, and see what I get.

jb_xx
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:29 AM   #19
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

I'm sorry but if you're buying "light weight" wheels for a ~27 year old bike in order to be competitive, you're kinda light on the brain cell count aren't you? C'mon.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:57 AM   #20
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Re: Performance Machine - cush

Quote:
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I'm sorry but if you're buying "light weight" wheels for a ~27 year old bike in order to be competitive, you're kinda light on the brain cell count aren't you? C'mon.
I somewhat agree with that statement Garrett. If you're changing stock wheels to magnesium... for the street, as some kind of "competitive" mod ... well, who exactly is this competition? Different strokes for different folks I guess

The wheels that I have will be used for a non-race project, although there are some folks that vintage race ... and dependent upon their ability, love for the sport, personal income ... you'll always have someone looking to shave weight & time to be competitive. Vintage Road Racing here in Canada is alive and well. I regularly see Marchesini, Marvic, PM, Tecno, and Dymag wheels used on a variety of these bikes.

I really enjoy the vintage race scene, and the wonderful specimens brought from back of the garage to combat 4 times a year. Great stuff!

jb_xx
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