This isn't rocket science, these bikes are pretty simple really.
I'm guessing that:
1) Suzuki know what it is and don't want a massive recall.
2) The dealers just don't have the time or expertise or both to sort it out.
I totally agree and would just like to add that they also don't seem to care too much about making things right.
I myself got the same answer as Leeroy from the dealer and the "Suzuki guy" which was: read the user manual cause it says in there that you may need to hold the throttle open till the bike warms up and this is completely normal. That response is a total joke and pretty much a blow off from the guy who works for Suzuki and is supposed to know his shit.
I really hope someone figures this out soon and or that Suzuki does something about it before I decide that I can't live with it any more and buy a Honda again...
I totally agree and would just like to add that they also don't seem to care too much about making things right.
I myself got the same answer as Leeroy from the dealer and the "Suzuki guy" which was: read the user manual cause it says in there that you may need to hold the throttle open till the bike warms up and this is completely normal. That response is a total joke and pretty much a blow off from the guy who works for Suzuki and is supposed to know his shit.
I really hope someone figures this out soon and or that Suzuki does something about it before I decide that I can't live with it any more and buy a Honda again...
Totally agree with Kwaka10r. Yup, I was the other guy at the dealership! The problem I have is I will pay money to get it fixed, just tell me what's broke and I will trade you money for the solution. I can't handle Suzuki telling us that this is normal and that I need to read my manual. There is far to many occurances of this exact same issue for this to be not known by Suzuki.
I feel like I need to pursue a class action lawsuit before Suzuki will cough up an answer.
Just a quick update. I most likely won't be getting any information this week. The shop manager at the dealership that I have been speaking with is just only getting back, so he has to play a little catchup.
Anyway, they seem like a really good group of guys there, so hopefully they'll put the screws to Suzuki. I gotta say it is a mixed bag with the dealerships in this town. These guys fortunately seem pretty willing work with me, so hopefully something good comes out of this.
Hey guys followed this thread for a long time now and have tried something posted by someone on here a while back which has UNDOUBTEDLY worked. I have not had this issue since. It is merly a bandaid solution to a technical problem but still works and doesn't require much effort.
So start the bike normally and once started, immediately add a tiny amount of throttle, maybe 1/8th up to about 1500RPM for about 5 seconds tops. Then let go and let it idle like normal. I know people will whinge at this and say they shouldn't have to do it, but try it as it stops a lot of frustration for me.
And thanks to who ever that was who put me onto this.
Happy camper now for the last few months at least
__________________
"Treat it like you love it, Ride it like you hate it"
Just thinking out-loud... Preface: this is my primary mode of transportation right now and has been for the past 2 years.
So just to recap, we have a few solutions that have worked for some, and not worked for others which leads me to believe that the issue lies deeper (or in plain sight but we just haven't thought of it yet) and these solutions may merely be Band-Aids. I'd love to hear back from those who have found solutions and are problem free and for how long they've been riding since they've fixed it.
Cliffs: Is there any currency in the idea of forming a united front to have the Suzuki address this issue demanding a solution?
Complaining about the increasing inconvenience: Over the past month I've been staying in Santa Cruz, CA and the weather is quite damp in the mornings, therefore this issue is blindingly apparent. Every time it takes until the bike reaches nearly 170 degrees until it fades away. If I were to wait that out standing still that would take quite a while. I'm not saying I'm normally impatient but this issue has really driven me to my last nerve. I normally let the bike warm up to anywhere in between 115-125 before I ride. This is fine when I can turn it on, and then get geared up or walk inside the house for something. Not when I have to hold the throttle open just to warm the bike up.
Typically, in the morning I need to get moving so I've begun to just hold the throttle open when I come to a stop. However trying to ride this bike when its experiencing this issue can be slightly dangerous... I'm working at University of California at Santa Cruz so there's at least 2 miles of roads with 15-20 MPH speed limits to get out of the campus which is great to warm the bike up. But trying to maintain throttle with this issue becomes a little frightening. Occasionally, say in the middle of a decent corner leaving the school, the fuel mixture evens out and accelerates without me twisting the throttle. It's nothing I haven't been able to handle and I'm sure anyone who is paying attention enough and who is impatient enough (at this point) to ride their bike before it’s cleared up all the way can handle this. I may be being picky but wouldn't this be a safety issue at this point? Or would it not because I could really wait and hold the throttle open for 10 minutes in the morning... I hate being impatient but sometimes I just don't have the time to wait there.
It just infuriates me that I bought this bike brand new in June of 2010 from the dealer, and in January of 2011 I experienced this issue with less than 5,000 on the clock... Of course the dealer couldn't get the bike to act up which isn't their fault; it’s just the nature of this intermittent issue. With as many people that we have on this thread alone who are experiencing this issue I feel like we could make something happen to address it. I love my bike. I love the styling, the performance, and nuance of its personality it’s developed over the past 11,000 miles. I tried so hard not to get connected to this bike but after a number of mountain runs, road trips, and even trips to the market or the gym have really caused quite a strong connection. This makes me want a solution to this issue even more.
I imagine there are many riders out there like me who are still paying their bike off and it’s an unbelievable let down to have this issue at such a young age of its life. I really think the first occurrence was around 3,000 miles or so.
Am I just too idealistic in thinking that maybe a group email/phone call/letter with reference to specific owners who have their bikes in dealerships waiting for solutions would change anything? I could be too idealistic but I really don’t want to pay out the next three years dealing with this issue. I could try to sell it but I'm not the kind of seller who would keep an issue like this from the attention of the potential buyer. Therefore: who would want a used bike that could choose to immobilize them from time to time?
When I ride to the gym every morning I plan out this massive letter that I want to write to Suzuki, which I'll gladly do, but I just feel that a united front may be more effective.
Whaddya say, lads?
Sorry to rant. Had to vent my frustration to fellow riders who understand!
-Nick-
P.S. A joint front may be better in the simple way of writing a letter because, as you can see, my grammar and sentence structure could use some work.
It would be tough to fight Suzuki in court as they have an army of lawyers on the payroll but it may make them take the problem more seriously.
The best bet is for someone rip the bike apart and figure it out. I was not smart enough to figure it out and after I threw a ton a parts at it with no success I gave up and bought a new bike.
I still hold my breath every time I start it as I so do not want to deal with it again.
Hey guys, I've been following this thread for months, since my 750 developed it in the past February.
For me it has been pretty weird. Since I lived in the Riverside county of Cali ( where it would warm up and drop drastically past five pm), it would cause this problem. But, it would only happen if I rode the bike during the day and tried starting it up after a few hours when the temp would drop. It would happen once every 2-3 weeks until this last June where the temp warmed up.
Since then my bike hasn't had trouble Idling
But when it would I'd just warm it up to 90, then drop it in first and cruise for a light or two, and the bike would work fine.
Is there a sensor that just acts up until the right temp?
I've had a solid 2-months of no issues after sealing up the input leads to the secondary fuel injectors. I'm convinced the problem is moisture condensing on the bottom of the fuel tank and seaping down into some electrical goodies. After having problems every morning for several weeks, I was about week away from getting a CBR. That was back in May, and at this point I'm considering my bike fixed.
I heard back from the dealership and there is not a lot they can do right now as I can't reproduce with the current weather conditions. They still want to provide more information to Suzuki once my bike starts acting up again. However things will be cooling down in about another month or two and I will revisit this with them. Until then, I'm just going to enjoy the time before I feel like driving this bike of a cliff.
One thing I am going to test, which I don't believe I have heard any talk of yet is the ECT Sensor and the Thermostat. I spoke to the dealership about this and they indicated it could totally be the problem (However I think I would expect codes to show up...).
I was going to bench test them both, but what the guy at the dealership suggested that I didn't think off was run some wires from the ECT and test the voltage when the problem happens and see if it is out of spec.
I figure when I remove the ECT to bench test it I'll poke a couple wires into the back sortof piggy back of the current ones (opposed to soldering). Then hook up the volt meter to test on the actual bike when the problem occurs.
Something else that I found interesting that I totally missed before is the tempurature at which the thermostate begins to open is approximately 82C (180F), I believe that is the same tempurate that most lads report their bike start running normally. Does for me.
Unfortunately there is no point in my doing either right now as it runs like a dream, so I'm curious if anyone else has looked at these two items.
The specs for the ETC for the 07 GSXR 750 are as follows I can't imagine this would be too different for other model years, but it will be necessary to pull a manual for your model year:
20C (68F) - 2.45 kilohms
50C (122F) - 0.811 kilohms
80C (176F) - 0.318 kilohms
110C (230F) - 0.142 kilohms
Also if you drop your ETC sensor in the process, throw it away and get a new one.
In regards to the thermostat it should start to move at 82C (180) and be full opened to 8MM+ over 95C (203F). Also if the pellet in the thermostat is cracked you can probably assume that you need new one. It pisses me off because my water pump broke last year and I had the coolent out to replace it and I never checked this at the same time. Now I have to drop the coolent to test this. (Sidebar - has anyone ever rebuilt a water pump for a GSXR - I would like to rebuild my old one and sell it?)
Anyway if anyone has tested these components I would really like to know. I will tackle these at the end of the summer and report up.
^Ah would you be able to post pics on how you did that?
here you go. Still no issues since doing this. I think someone else tried it and didn't have as much luck, but I've had no start-up issues since. 2 months and counting.
I had idle issue, only happened during colder months - it's currently winter in Melbourne and the bike has been playing up.
Fast idle wouldn't kick in, exhaust ran rich blowing out smoke burnt fuel, it wouldn't hold an idle and died just like the original vid. Only after the bike warmed up would it run properly.
I jotted down all possible causes that people have recommended on this thread and and on other sites and then went through each one hopefully looking for a resolve - eventually I found the solution to be...
FUEL FILTER.
I read that some guy had his fuel pump replaced and it fixed the issue (the mechanics said his issue was not enough pressure from the pump) - rather than spending 100+ to replace I thought I'd check out the pump first. I removed the tank, turned it upside down and pulled out the fuel pump. Pulled apart the pump found the filter to be somewhat dirty.
The filter didn't seem too dirty - there was definitely sediment there. Ran it under water (for a while) and lightly scrubbed it with my hands (using gloves) turned the gloves brownish. Blew air through it several times. Made sure it was dry 100% before I put it all back together.
Bike started up perfectly first go. Fast idle back to 2000rpm, and standard idle at 1300rpm. No smoke being produced.
This is only day 3, and it hasn't been super cold - average of 15 C. Fingers crossed this is the problem. Not sure if it's the answer - but worth a try - cost me nothing. It's a little messy, some fuel will be spilt. Have rags.
I had idle issue, only happened during colder months - it's currently winter in Melbourne and the bike has been playing up.
Fast idle wouldn't kick in, exhaust ran rich blowing out smoke burnt fuel, it wouldn't hold an idle and died just like the original vid. Only after the bike warmed up would it run properly.
I jotted down all possible causes that people have recommended on this thread and and on other sites and then went through each one hopefully looking for a resolve - eventually I found the solution to be...
FUEL FILTER.
I read that some guy had his fuel pump replaced and it fixed the issue (the mechanics said his issue was not enough pressure from the pump) - rather than spending 100+ to replace I thought I'd check out the pump first. I removed the tank, turned it upside down and pulled out the fuel pump. Pulled apart the pump found the filter to be somewhat dirty.
The filter didn't seem too dirty - there was definitely sediment there. Ran it under water (for a while) and lightly scrubbed it with my hands (using gloves) turned the gloves brownish. Blew air through it several times. Made sure it was dry 100% before I put it all back together.
Bike started up perfectly first go. Fast idle back to 2000rpm, and standard idle at 1300rpm. No smoke being produced.
This is only day 3, and it hasn't been super cold - average of 15 C. Fingers crossed this is the problem. Not sure if it's the answer - but worth a try - cost me nothing. It's a little messy, some fuel will be spilt. Have rags.
Bocce, when you are talking about cleaning the filter are you talking about the mesh filter bag at the bottom of the pump assembly or is there anything else you cleaned while in there? Also judging by your description this filter is pretty sturdy... Reason I ask is I priced this out to and you are right, nearly a $100 (ridiculous) and I don't want to tear it or break it trying to clean it. I have to believe its tough given the manual says to use compressed air to blow it out (My bike is 6 years old though).
Hopefully my last question, were you able to reuse the O-ring? My bike is two years older, so it may need replacing regardless, but I'm still curious what kind of shape yours was in ($30 in Canada, grrrr)?
Thanks Bocce, I'll add this to my list for September once it cools down out here.
Now I need someone to explain the relationship between a dirty fuel filter and cold starts being all jacked up. This one interests me a lot, but I just don't understand the connection. Seems like it would be a constant drop in power...
I agree with leeroy. Just having a hard time making the connection but at this point, I'd be willing to try pretty much any solution as long as it mainly costs time and elbow grease.
Out of curiosity... I've decided that come May, I'll be selling my bike. But how would one go about selling a bike with an immobilizing issue such as this? I understand total price would depend on condition, mods, and miles etc. but just how much should I consider lowering the price to compensate for time, hassle, and repair? Provided a solution comes along, of course.
here you go. Still no issues since doing this. I think someone else tried it and didn't have as much luck, but I've had no start-up issues since. 2 months and counting.
Ok Sam, how about removing the waterproofing and see if it plays up?
Out of curiosity... I've decided that come May, I'll be selling my bike.....
Nick, I will be working through the following items in the order below come Sept/Oct time frame given the bike starts acting up again. So you might want to wait a little longer before thinking about what you should hack off the price just in case one of us gets lucky with a fix.
Checklist (so far):
1. Clean or replace fuel filter
2. ECT (Bench Test and/or piggy back wiring to check realtime resistance)
3. Thermostat (Inspection and Bench test)
I'm going to do them in that order and test in between each item for a few days or if the problem crops up straight away, move to the next item. On top of this I will be working with my mechanic at my local dealership here come the fall too.
We'll probably find out we need to run sylvania instead of philips bulbs in the headlights to fix the problem (This is me trying to be funny).
Ok Sam, how about removing the waterproofing and see if it plays up?
Sent from my electric shaver!
I second this suggestion. I know if will be a pain in the ass to remove that tape and also if it starts with the funny business again, but it would certainly help narrow down the problem.
here you go. Still no issues since doing this. I think someone else tried it and didn't have as much luck, but I've had no start-up issues since. 2 months and counting.
Thanks Sam, I gotta try that out. Kinda sucks the weather makes my temp at 75-80 from start, so it'll be hard to know when this really will work.
I see a lot of people sell the bike. I couldn't do that unless the bike would never run properly after warming up...
Bocce, when you are talking about cleaning the filter are you talking about the mesh filter bag at the bottom of the pump assembly or is there anything else you cleaned while in there? Also judging by your description this filter is pretty sturdy... Reason I ask is I priced this out to and you are right, nearly a $100 (ridiculous) and I don't want to tear it or break it trying to clean it. I have to believe its tough given the manual says to use compressed air to blow it out (My bike is 6 years old though).
Hopefully my last question, were you able to reuse the O-ring? My bike is two years older, so it may need replacing regardless, but I'm still curious what kind of shape yours was in ($30 in Canada, grrrr)?
Thanks Bocce, I'll add this to my list for September once it cools down out here.
Now I need someone to explain the relationship between a dirty fuel filter and cold starts being all jacked up. This one interests me a lot, but I just don't understand the connection. Seems like it would be a constant drop in power...
Hey Leeroy,
Yep - the bag. It's fairly sturdy - should be made out of mesh. Mine was kinda like meshy / material. it didn't break, and I rubbed it with my fingers. To remove it from the fuel pump I used a flat head screw driver to begin prying it away from the fuel pump. it'll come off, mine wasn't screwed onto the pump, but needed the screwdriver to nudge it down a little, then used my hands to pull apart.
0-rings are fine, and I've reused them - they looked in great shape. There are 2. one large one between tank and fuel pump, and a tiny one inside the fuel pump. I used some motor oil on the little one to help it slide back into position when putting it all back together. Check for fuel leaks, after put it all back together. and then a couple of days later. IF you're leaking then replace the o-rings - I haven't noticed any leaks.
I just ran outside to have another check to see if she's running good still. She hasn't been started in a week. It's been fairly cold. For the past week she's been outside in the elements, but with a cover over. Just then the fast idle kicked and stayed engaged for approx 20secs and normal idle still at 1.2k-1.3k. I revved her a few times, she sat back at 1.3k - didn't stall once. I'm happy!!!
The only reason I decided to try the fuel pump was that I read somewhere that a mechanic said the pump pressure is different during cold engine as opposed to warm, whether thats true or not I'm not sure, but it didn't hurt to check the pump. Took me about 90mins to do it all, now that I know how to do it, it's basically a 30min job. try it... I used this youtube vid to guide me -
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