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Need guideance. Braided brake lines

7K views 50 replies 21 participants last post by  Stevie.T 
#1 ·
I'm looking for some braided brake lines for an 07 gsxr 600. which are the best. Or the best for the most reasonable amount of money.
 
#5 ·
To be honest, it really doesnt matter. They all perform the same. So go with what you think looks the best.
 
#7 ·
why? If they are properly designed they dont need to spin. They are oriented in such a way they line up naturally. :dunno

It is basically a gimnick to me, and if anything just an added potential place for failure.
 
#8 ·
Well I've had a different experience then, I like being able to have them twist in optimal directions to have them route just right. The rear line on my DRZ wanted to lay right on the rear spring and was a definite pinch/wear hazard. I had to zip tie it to hold it away from the spring. Not a huge deal but if I put Spiegler's on it I could have just twisted the banjo and the line would route perfect.
 
#18 ·
disagreed. being pedantic, OEM brake lines should be replaced every 24 months. given the use/actual fucking need of replacing them, however, after a few years, i would replace it. i have replaced the rear line on both my bikes, (09 and 06) merely by waiting til a "sale" was put on at the 'mummy.
 
#22 ·
Originally Posted by Moto_Joe
:blink cite a source that says there is ANY plausible reason to need to change the front lines every 24 months, let alone the rear which rarely sees use :blink


I have seen hundreds of 20+ year old bikes with oem lines that work just fine, think if ya look in the owners manual they "suggest" the lines should be replaced every 3-4 years, just to cover their corporate asses..
A good brake bleed/fresh fluid every couple years will give excellent results..

 
#23 ·
I have seen hundreds of 20+ year old bikes with oem lines that work just fine, think if ya look in the owners manual they "suggest" the lines should be replaced every 3-4 years, just to cover their corporate asses..
A good brake bleed/fresh fluid every couple years will give excellent results..

and if you read the back of a brake fluid bottle it says for best results replace fluid before every race.
 
#24 ·
racing and street riding are not the same thing ;)

When fluid gets wet, it boils easier and also the water in it can boil and gas off and cause spongie brakes.

Since on the street you will almost never get them that hot, fluid boil is a lot less of a concern, and thus change intervals can be far longer.
 
#25 ·
racing and street riding are not the same thing ;)

When fluid gets wet, it boils easier and also the water in it can boil and gas off and cause spongie brakes.

Since on the street you will almost never get them that hot, fluid boil is a lot less of a concern, and thus change intervals can be far longer.
very true, but OP is asking about upgrading to SS lines. I'm hoping it's for performance and not aesthetic reasons. And if that is the case then changing the brake fluid more than once every couple of years will be necessary. That's the only point I was trying to get across
 
#26 ·
Iv got spiegler lines from motomummy. Look awesome and the adjustable banjos are a plus IMO.
 
#28 ·
There is also a service time for replacing wheel bearings, swingarm pivot bearings, steering bearings and a bunch of other shit that nobody ever replaces until it is worn or damaged.

Service limits are put in place so as to avoid any liability for failure after a reasonable amount of time on most things. They are almost always very conservative under normal use conditions. Under extreme use conditions very few mechanics would even go close to service limits as shown by the manufacturer.
 
#29 ·
yup, and there are instances where some things do not live up to the service limit under normal circumstances. 7 year-old bike in the OP... and in my first post i mentioned that there are often sales by particular site sponsors where rear lines are free with the order of front lines, on top of a discount. how many times have you advocated fork seal or fork fluid changes both before service limits or for 7 year old machines? the service manual has torque ratings for the seat bolts, but i don't follow it, maybe you do, but to each his own.
 
#30 ·
I have never seen an OEM brake line fail. Not on a ridden and maintained bike. Hell I don't think ive ever actually seen one fail on a bike left in a barn for thirty years and being restored.

Comparing FLUID to a brake line is ridiculous.

If it tickles your peecker to replace the rear line fine. But there is no functional or real world reason it needs to be done.
 
#37 ·
so your recommendation for swapping rear is honestly because of looks. Thanks. That is all i needed to know.


now to respond to all the bs in previous post... even after drinking too much.


macbayne said:
just because i disagree,that does not mean that i am retarded. my point through this whole thing is that the service manual recommends an action to be taken. your point through this whole thing is that suzuki is covering their asses by recommending a line change every 4 years. you are also introducing track scenarios and anecdotal evidence that you have personally never seen OEM lines fail in 4 years, as if that proves the designers and producers of a machine are wrong for recommending such a preposterous action.
I never said I proved anything. M<y "proof" that the 4 years is bullshit, is just as valid as your "proof" that it is valid honesltly. the true proof is that there are thousands upon thousands of bikes that have lines more than 4 years old that are fine though ;). nothing anecdotal about that. It is quite factual actually.
i will go one better. have you ever seen a fast racer use OEM lines for 4 years?
No. But it has ZERO to do with service limits, and more to do with feel. ;)

Here is a pro tip for ya. Stock rubber lines stop JUST as well as aftermarket steel lines do. The differnce is not in stopping power, but rather in feel, and ability to accurately modulate the brakes. Steel lines do NO stop any better ;)
your whole thing appears to me as "throw the maintenance schedule out the window, i know better because i go to the track." now you are gonna out-brake people to prove OEM lines can stop a bike?
Have you replaced EVERYTHING your truck states to replace within its service limit... if you say yes i will call absolute bullshit. Nobody does. Service limits are base recomendations. Nothing more.

Yes. I will take any stock brake line... 4 years old, ten years old, 20 years old and use it to prove it is not outside any useful limit. Absolutely.
i would bet that 4 years of hard use on OEM lines WOULD degrade them quite a bit. i have seen stiff levers go pretty damn soft on hot days because of line expansion, and i would bet $5 that that degrades lines.
this shows your cluelessness. "stiff levers" dont go soft due to lines. Never. Lines dont fade. Fluid or pads fade. Hot day or cold doesnt matter. If they fade it is NOT due to "line expansion" it is due to either fluid or pad fade. Lines expand the same, hot or cold. You can keep your $5 but you are wrong.
the fact is that the service manual says change them. will they fail at 4.1 years? no, probably not, but my point stands.
Your point doesnt stand. There is ZERO good reason to swap the rear other than looks.

Hint. I still have an OEM rear. I use the rear more than the average racer. Even better........I still have the OEM fluid in the rear. Why? because it is fine as it is. I dont use it enough to fade it. I dont use it enough to damage the lines. And the oem rear lines 6-7 years later are MORE than fine for track use. There is ZERO real reason other than looks to swap a rear line. Efven better, other than FEEL there is ZERO good reason to swap the front unless you need the added feel. Even after 5-10 years of normal use.

I would bet you cant find ONE single instance of a failed brake line inside any average use period ;)
 
#38 ·
so your recommendation for swapping rear is honestly because of looks. Thanks. That is all i needed to know.


now to respond to all the bs in previous post... even after drinking too much.


I never said I proved anything. M<y "proof" that the 4 years is bullshit, is just as valid as your "proof" that it is valid honesltly. the true proof is that there are thousands upon thousands of bikes that have lines more than 4 years old that are fine though ;). nothing anecdotal about that. It is quite factual actually.
No. But it has ZERO to do with service limits, and more to do with feel. ;)

Here is a pro tip for ya. Stock rubber lines stop JUST as well as aftermarket steel lines do. The differnce is not in stopping power, but rather in feel, and ability to accurately modulate the brakes. Steel lines do NO stop any better ;)


Have you replaced EVERYTHING your truck states to replace within its service limit... if you say yes i will call absolute bullshit. Nobody does. Service limits are base recomendations. Nothing more.

Yes. I will take any stock brake line... 4 years old, ten years old, 20 years old and use it to prove it is not outside any useful limit. Absolutely. this shows your cluelessness. "stiff levers" dont go soft due to lines. Never. Lines dont fade. Fluid or pads fade. Hot day or cold doesnt matter. If they fade it is NOT due to "line expansion" it is due to either fluid or pad fade. Lines expand the same, hot or cold. You can keep your $5 but you are wrong.


Your point doesnt stand. There is ZERO good reason to swap the rear other than looks.

Hint. I still have an OEM rear. I use the rear more than the average racer. Even better........I still have the OEM fluid in the rear. Why? because it is fine as it is. I dont use it enough to fade it. I dont use it enough to damage the lines. And the oem rear lines 6-7 years later are MORE than fine for track use. There is ZERO real reason other than looks to swap a rear line. Efven better, other than FEEL there is ZERO good reason to swap the front unless you need the added feel. Even after 5-10 years of normal use.

I would bet you cant find ONE single instance of a failed brake line inside any average use period ;)
yes you were drinking, it seems obvious. you honestly think that feel from SS lines is magic? rubber lines expand with the pressures applied from the lever and the resistance of the pads. after time when heat builds up, the rubber becomes more pliable, and thus they expand more and more by the end of the day. add-in the hundreds of degrees that your brake fluid is at by induction from the calipers, and you get more expansion. if rubber lines were better, no one would convert. all rubber wears-out when bent and distorted over time.

SS lines expand less because the rubber is encased in the steel so it then reduces said expansion. brake lines are hydraulics, and the HUNDREDS of psi on the lines when you squeeze the lever push outward.

next let us talk flex. look at how often a line flexes due to bumps, hard braking, and even crashing. it takes a toll. now let us move on to the elements. ever seen a tire rot after 5 years? your rubber brake lines are the same principle (i know it is a different compound). now what about sun damage? dirt and oil?

i am not here to convince you to change lines, personally, i think you do as you feel and i will do the same. i will state that your belief that brake lines are so indestructible is unfounded.

how often do you change your caliper piston seals?
 
#41 · (Edited)
Meh. I am bored with this.

You stand by your manual....... but said this :blink

you are right, they also "suggest" changing oil every 3500 miles. that shit is only because they are in bed with big oil.
.

Hypocritical much?


The fibers in the lines are sandwiched between a hose designed to resist brake fluid, and a hose designed to resist the elements. Those fibers are what give the lines their strength. They are not degraded by anything you have stated. They DO give more than stainless steel when used in the EXACT same capacity (sandwiched between an outter casing, and an inner hose carrying brake fluid) but they do so very consistently. It doesnt change with heat. The fluid, rotors, and pads DO change with heat though, and cause fade. Lines dont cause fade.

the elements do not degrade the outter casing in anything near 4 years.

The brake fluid does not degrade the inner casing in anything near 4 years

Your motor oil under normal average use does not degrade in anything NEAR as short as 3500 miles.


All of the factory service limits are in place for worst case scenarios, WITH a safety margin built in as well, under most any reasonable operating condition.


RE caliper seals. Like any gaskets, some piston rings, and any other "sealing" device, once disturbed from their original positions of wear, they are far more prone to leaking. That is why I replace them. ;). The caliper pistons are not perfect. As such they wear the seals in position. If you change that position they no longer fit. They leak.
 
#42 ·
Meh. I am bored with this.

You stand by your manual....... but said this :blink

.

Hypocritical much?


The fibers in the lines are sandwiched between a hose designed to resist brake fluid, and a hose designed to resist the elements. Those fibers are what give the lines their strength. They are not degraded by anything you have stated. They DO give more than stainless steel when used in the EXACT same capacity (sandwiched between an outter casing, and an inner hose carrying brake fluid) but they do so very consistently. It doesnt change with heat. The fluid, rotors, and pads DO change with heat though, and cause fade. Lines dont cause fade.

the elements do not degrade the outter casing in anything near 4 years.

The brake fluid does not degrade the inner casing in anything near 4 years

Your motor oil under normal average use does not degrade in anything NEAR as short as 3500 miles.


All of the factory service limits are in place for worst case scenarios, WITH a safety margin built in as well, under most any reasonable operating condition.


RE caliper seals. Like any gaskets, some piston rings, and any other "sealing" device, once disturbed from their original positions of wear, they are far more prone to leaking. That is why I replace them. ;). The caliper pistons are not perfect. As such they wear the seals in position. If you change that position they no longer fit. They leak.
that statement about oil was sarcasm, equating that poster's dismissal of the manual as legal ass-covering. i am perfectly aware that service "limits" are not really the limits of performance, but everything degrades.

while i didn't disagree with your definition of brake fade, that does not preclude lines or negate the fact of line expansion. brake fade "a gradual loss of braking power resulting from decreased friction between the lining and the drum or disc of the brake and usually caused by overheating."

-dictionary.com

100 psi through expanded lines is 100 psi through rigid lines, and brake fade is the reduced friction between pad and rotor, or inability of the fluid to provide enough pressure. it is not related to volume of fluid, but forces. line expansion merely demands the movement of more fluid to provide force upon the pistons, not the inability of a line to provide the force in original diameter.
 
#43 ·
Uggh...

They expand the same... cold or hot. The lever travel, and the braking performance does not change from the first grab of the lever, to the end of a race, due to the lines.

Your definition is for PAD fade. ;). With pad fade no matter how much pressure you apply (within reason, dont play semantics here), you will not get full braking power, as the pads simply are not squeezing the rotor. They are riding on a layer of gas basically.

There is also fluid induced fade, which is a loss of braking ability due to overheating of the fluid and expansion of gas/vapor in the lines causing a mushy lever. In the case of fluid fade you can still eventually (usually) get to full braking power, but the lever travel needed to do so can become farther than the available mechanical travel of the lever in extreme cases

You are attempting to say that a form of fade........ the feel or power of the braking system degrading with use, is caused by the lines. You are wrong. The feel is the same regardless in relation to the lines. The rubber that you are so concerned with how it reacts to the heat is NOT what controls the expansion. the fibers are.


Outside of the volume of fluid and how that can relate to fluid fade, the lines do not contribute to any real changes in braking performance. They do perform less desirably than steel lines. But they dont contribute to any changes...
 
#44 ·
Shit, I had stock lines on my SRAD, took them off abouth 6 months ago. They were still fine, they weren't damaged on the outside. I replaced them because I wanted to. Thats 14 years on the lines...they braked fine, they could lift the rear wheel...

Previous to that, I had a 1989 FZR250...it had fresh fluid and stock pads, and braked perfectly well...it also had the stock lines...22 years old...

I'm amazed you are still trying Joe :lol
 
#45 ·
I have 73 thousand miles on my 2004 gsxr 600 i've been riding since i bought it brand new in 2004. I still have my stock rubber lines on. I've rode through 2 hurricanes, thunderstorms, 100+ degree weather, wind, and all of that nonsense. The only time i've ever had my brakes flushed was once in the entire 9 year period when i had to replace my master cylinder (weathering eventually corroded the outside until it was about to crack and leak). The only reason I want new brake lines is Looks.
 
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