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Introducing EL TORO - THE TIRE KILLER

137K views 1K replies 106 participants last post by  JP1143 
#1 ·
Hey Guys

This thread is gonna be about building my bike - The one that shall forever be known as EL TORO - THE TIRE KILLER.

Why "El Toro" ? Because, as Borat would say, "It is STRONG, Like BULL". And the bull has great hunger for tires

I'm starting the thread because -
1. Its fun to share
2. I've learned so much from this site. Really seen some good threads on here. Its about time I start giving something back !!
3. Lots of smart guys on here. Never know when someone will give you

Anyways, I'm working on it right now, just starting the motor build. I'm going to start this thread off with some basic info, and throw some pics up. I'll keep adding pics

Basic info -

Motor -
1143 (4mm stroke, 3mm bore). Counterbalancer removed.
Pro ported head. Fresh valve job.
Carillo rods
1mm bigger intake valves
13.something compression ratio (haven't determined what I will be running exactly yet, I have 3 headgaskets to choose from - .028, .030, .036. And yes, I CC EVERYTHING to get the "true" static compression, I'm not just reading it off the box of the pistons!!
Big cams (.400 lift / 260 @ .040 intake, .358 242 @ .050 exhaust)
carpenter valve springs / yosh keepers (for durability)
Hindle full exhaust system (Superbike model, tapered headers, big dia through muffler)
Full studs
undercut tranny
Billet clutch basket
44mm throttlebodies (2mm overbore)
Powercommander
Velocity Stacks
Ceramic trans bearing
High volume oil pump gear (stock pressure relief valve though)
oil baffle
Carbon fiber ram air tubes
going to get Factory Pro to flow balance my injectors
Got a brand new K7 fuel pump that I'm going to use. Might modify the regulator for slightly higher fuel pressure (for finer fuel spray) - maybe aim for low/mid 50's
Putting in a brand new stock K4 oil pump too - never hurts .... good insurance

Extras -
16.5 inch forged mag marchesini's. Ceramic wheel bearings.
Have 16.5 cast mag Marvics for the track, stock wheel bearings. Got 5 of these really cheap, so i'd rather mess them up on the track than the nice Marchesini's!!
Road race slicks (200/70 Dunlop rear)
Superbike radiator (gonna take some work to make this work!!!)
Aluminum gas tank (ex superbike / endurance racer, 5 lbs lighter?). MIGHT run this tank, probably stick with stock tank this year due to time constraints
1.5lb battery (speedcell)
Quickshifter
Race bodywork for track. Have spare bodywork that I might convert to street bodywork for ease of swapping (also have nice clean stock bodywork that I use for the street)
2 shift lights (left one for about 10K, right for about 12K)
K5 forks, low mileage, with AK20's
Attack triple clamps, adjustable offset

Brakes -
Just bought an ISR master cylinder, can't WAIT to try it!!
Also got ZX14 Nissin calipers (8 pistons total, one pad per piston). Also haven't run, can't wait!
-2 stainless lines
Brembo 320mm rotors

Anyways. Thats just a start on the list..... theres more !!!!!!!! But that will come in time

OK, I'm going to throw some initial pics on. I'll keep adding to them, just gotta start somewhere!!

But first, lets get a few things out of the way -

A. YES, I KNOW THAT THIS BIKE IS COMPLETELY INSANE, COMPLETELY USELESS, THAT I CAN'T EVEN USE THE POWER OF THE STOCK MOTOR, OR EVEN MAX OUT THE STOCK CHASSIS.
B. YES, I KNOW THAT IF I WANTED TO GO FAST ON THE TRACK I'D BE BETTER OFF WITH A COMPLETELY STOCK GSXR600 (ok, maybe do fork springs and brake pads).
C. YES, I KNOW I'M PROBABLY VENTURING INTO AN AREA WHERE ONLY PROFESSIONAL MECHANICS SHOULD GO. I MAY BE BUILDING A TICKING TIME BOMB.
D. IF YOU DONT APPRECIATE OR ENJOY WHAT I'M DOING, I DONT GIVE A FUCK. THIS IS MY DREAM, THIS IS WHAT I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO. I REALLY DONT HAVE ANYTHING ELSE IN MY LIFE THAT I REALLY CARE ABOUT. Doing this sort of thing is really the only reason I have to wake up in the morning. The rest of my life is kinda boring and shitty. That might sound pathetic, and maybe it is, but at the end of the day - at least I have ONE thing that I care about. That puts me one ahead of a lot of people.
E. Pointing out the uselessness of this build is probably just going to encourage me to do even more.... so dont waste your breath....

Anyways!! Enough of that....... Introducing EL TORO !
 

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#2 ·
More Pics. Check out the one of my tire / wheel room. I just built all that a couple of months ago (did it mostly by myself, that was a bit of a bitch...). Btw, my buddy has a trackbike too, I built his bike and am his mechanic too, so thats part of the reason I have so many tires / wheels. Also, I had to stock up on 16'5s to make sure I would have enough this year !!!!
 

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#6 ·
Daaaaam son!:drool

Look's like you are on the right track so far!

That radiator looks like it could keep a V-10 cool!:biggrin

I want moooooore!
:punk
Thanks man!! Stuff like that encourages me. In a positive way! I've had a crazy shitty year, From
-Having a kitchen fire at my house that resulted in half the house being COMPLETELY rebuilt,
-Having massive transitions at work (my company quadrupled its size in north america this year by buying 4 other companies), resulting in -
lots of reorganization. I'm on my FOURTH BOSS IN 12 MONTHS. Also I had to do the job of 3 people all by myself for a while there
-My dad got cancer in his eye. He had to have radiation treatment.... and so far he's doing well, thankfully
-State farm cancelling my home owners insurance & blackballing me. bank was gonna foreclose on my house.... so I sold it to my parents. Fuck you State Farm !!
-Having surgery a month ago - had a scary problem "with my junk" Lets no go into details, lets just say it sucked and was scary. I'm healed now though!!

Blah blah blah .... everyone has problems. But now I'm just focused on getting this bike done !!

Btw, while I'm thinking of it, I do want to say THANKS to a few folks (there are more, these are just the ones I'm thinking about right now)

Tim Radley - for giving me a bunch of information last year, on what to do and not to do, and in general for his other posts on here. If El Toro blows up, dont blame him though, I take full responsibility :)
JeffW - for inspiring me to do this stupid shit, for showing me that going way, way, way too far is barely enough
Chuckles - Thanks for the cam timing info, and other info. Also for inspiring me to keep going with this build (along with just being a personal hero after he blew up his motor, took it like a man, and is getting right back on that horse!!!)

Oh, one more random mention - Thanks to Steve Rapp - I dont think I've ever spoken with him, but I do recall seeing him at some of Pridmore's STAR schools. Anyways, what he did this year at the Daytona 200, running the whole race on ONE set of tires....... awesome. Just awesome. That guy probably needs a wheelbarrow to haul around those big brass balls ! Thanks to him for showing us all how you should go for what you want, dont let details get in your way
 
#7 ·
built motors suck. this thread is boring.

im just playing man. built motors are the tits. anytime i see a thread or post on a built motor, im in to comment and it makes me happy

good job so far

j
 
#10 ·
This is awesome man :)

I love the first post!! I completely understand...lol Someone always has to say something stupid...lol

Looks like the master cylinder could stop the Terminator...lol Thats a serious piece.

I have never built a stroker motor myself. Never had that kind of money, or a customer with that kind of money...lol Totally bad ass you are doing it yourself.
 
#16 ·
This is awesome man :)

I love the first post!! I completely understand...lol Someone always has to say something stupid...lol

Looks like the master cylinder could stop the Terminator...lol Thats a serious piece.

I have never built a stroker motor myself. Never had that kind of money, or a customer with that kind of money...lol Totally bad ass you are doing it yourself.
Thanks man!

About the first post, I already know what the negative people will say, so I thought I'd just go ahead and say it for them, so that we could get down to the good shit :)

This is my dream, and I dont CARE if anyone else likes it

Oh yeah, I'm not exactly rich.... I just have a set of priorities different than most people.

Just to keep this in perspective, I'm attaching a photo of where I sleep. The fire wiped out almost all of my furniture. The insurance company will buy me new stuff, but honestly I just haven't had time. So I bought this used mattress for $30 bucks from my friends.

Right now, I'd rather sleep on this crappy old mattress and have time to work on my bike, than dick around in a furniture store!
 

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#12 ·
Hey guys

Thanks for all the encouragement. We're gonna have some fun! This is just beginning

Btw, I looked at the photos above, and realized just how much has changed on the bike since then... ! Except for the frame, bodywork, clipons, swingarm, almost everything has been changed!

New forks (k5's with AK20's)
Engine (I rebuilt that motor & built my buddy a bike around it, using a spare frame I had)
wheels (Now marchesini's and Marvics, depending on the day)
Brake rotors (now Brembo's)
Brake calipers (now ZX14)
Triple clamps (now Attack adjustables)
Rearsets (now Attack's, those vortex in pics are on my buddy's bike now, and those PVMs are his "other" set of wheels - I am loaning him a set of 16.5 marvics for this season)
exhaust - chopped can
radiator
oil cooler


Anyways. Back to work on motor. I'm getting close to getting the case clearanced for the stroker crank. Am gonna have to work on the clutch basket though, I think its gonna hit the #4 rod.... the stock basket hit, this is a Falicon billet basket, and initial measurements ... dont look good.

I have a feeling I'll need to grind down the backside connecting rod bolt on #4.... or cut the basket.....

I'll be taking pics.

Cutting the rod would be easier, but I really dont want to. And it will screw up the balance too, I'd have to lighten every other rod / bolt to make it match. I dont like the idea of cutting on a connecting rod bolt, thats gotta be the highest load faster on the bike?

Btw, here's an initial shot of the clutch basket. I'm going to assemble this on the tranny input shaft, look for contact.....
 

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#14 ·
who did you use for the head work and crank work if you don't mind answering? Just curious.

what power level are you looking for?
 
#20 ·
who did you use for the head work and crank work if you don't mind answering? Just curious.

what power level are you looking for?

Sorry for the double post, I'm probably gonna be doing that a lot, but its easier to answer Q this way

Anyways, this motor was supposed to have come from Rob Dowie's F1 bike, which qualified first in the 2004 Toyota 200 race. He broke his neck though (I hear that he fully healed though & went back racing, but he was of course out of it for a while!!)

The team switched bikes though (from Suzuki to Kawasaki), and with this wreck, this motor spent a long time in storage. So by the time I got it, it was a used up old race motor. It even had rust on the valve seats (exhausts anyways, the intakes are bronze).

Thats what I was TOLD anyways - that it was Dowie's motor. The head is marked as Lees Performance, and a guy who worked there says that Lee's did indeed do the head on Dowie's bike... and that the serial # sounded like it was in the right range. So maybe it was Dowie's motor, maybe it wasn't *shrugs*

The head is fully ported. 1mm over intake valves, Ferrea stainless valves, on bronze seats. Stock size exhaust valves, I put in a brand new OEM set of exhaust valves last year.

Everything in that motor was super loose. Very loose bearings. BIG piston to wall clearance. Valves were very loose in the guides. Cylinder walls had lots of scratches, and were worn pretty smooth....

It was already a 1070 (+3mm bore).

I had Millenium replate the block, and slightly deck the block. Just the minimum cut to clean the surface (about .002) & make perfectly flat

I had RCS replace ALL the valve guides with aftermarket bronze. Then do a good valve job & slightly deck the head - just enough, like the block, for a perfectly smooth surface (about .003 cut)

I've used RCS for almost all the parts - they seem like really good folks, and they have a whole bunch of this stuff in stock, which is nice!!

I got the following parts from RCS
+4mm stroker crank (crank work was done by Marine Cranks), which has the counterbalancer gear removed, balanced, journals polished & nitrided
Web Cams
JE pistons (a custom mold that RCS has JE do for them. RCS also milled the bowl on the piston about .080 deeper, for less compression). The pistons are slipper style, and whats nice is that the piston pin has been moved up 2mm, so that normal length rods can be used - no need for short "stroker" rods. Better rod/stroke length ratio!




Someone asked about video. I dont have much easily available right now, at least on me. BUT, check out the video below. This is from Heartland Park Topeka. My best friend is on the pink bike, right in front of the camera bike for most of this clip (though you mostly see the white bottom of his tail....). We've been best friends for about 25 years now.

Anyways, the bike in that video was completely built by me. Thats what you do for a good friend

I took the motor that originally was in El Toro, rebuilt it, and then put that motor in a spare frame that I had. Then I built the rest of the bike around it, piece by piece.

Sometimes you can see me in the video - I'm in black leathers, on a black bike (EL TORO)......... right in front of my buddy.... HAHAHA :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5mp2drj4Tk


Also, I'm including some pics of my buddy's bike. The pink bodywork came from JJ Roetlin, who raced in AMA Superbike for a little while. We met at one of Pridmore's STAR schools (JJ was an instructor there at the time). We became friends and kept in touch. When he got out of racing, I bought one of his sets of bodywork. Also got lots of other parts from him.

Anyways, El Toro would probably be finished now, but I promised my buddy I would finish his bike first (did a lot of work to it over the winter, new cams, quickshifter, power commander, shift light, changed offset in front triple clamps, new fork springs, put on a set of my 16.5 Marvics, etc etc).

Also, I sent his tank out to be painted to match the rest of the bike. Now the tank is gonna be bright pink.

I renamed his bike BITCH (its pink & pretty & will fuck you over if you dont pay enough attention!!). So that makes our two bikes THE BITCH & THE BULL
 

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#15 ·
:punk LEVERS and the bike alone. its looks like you got a nice setup going on
 
#18 ·
Ok, gotta get the old clutch basket off the tranny, to replace with new billet clutch basket. Also have brand new OEM clutch pressure plate & inner hub.

Pics show:

Fully assembled clutch / tranny input shaft

Empty basket after removing clutch fibers / steels, etc

Clutch plates (the fibers / steels have low miles on them & look good, so I will reuse. I AM going to put in a ZX10 judder plate / clutch cushion though. If I run into probs with stack height, I'll just put thinner steels in...)
That pic also shows the HD clutch springs I got from Schnitz. I do like those springs (I have run them for a while).
 

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#19 ·
Holly Crap! This bike is going to be SICK SICK SICK!

BTW, I dig your positive attitude. My brother just had his second bought with cancer at 36. He's doing very well as I hope you and your father do too. Keep your head up and have fun with this thing. We're all jealous.
 
#21 ·
I like the UPS man, he brings me nice toys!!!

Here are some new tools received this week -

Ring filer (just easier / more consistent than hand filing....)

Rod stretch gauge (always used a torque wrench before.... time to step up to a better way)

Teka tuner from Factory Pro (I have a power commander PCIII USB on the bike, but Tekas are useful for doing on the fly changes, and good for making some tweaks to other people's bikes who dont have a PC. I've g ot an 01 750 as my backup track bike, its Teka tuned. Besides, this was $340 on Ebay. Hardly ever see them for sale!!

The last tool I've had since last year, but man its so handy!!!!! Tapered ring compressor, 76mm from Wiseco. Using this, the pistons just SLIDE into the bore... no more messing with the rings! Takes about 30 seconds to slide a piston in a cylinder. Amazing.

I wish they made these in more sizes. I tried to find a 73mm (std bore) but didn't.... I lucked out with this size though (76mm, +3mm overbore on the 1K), since there are Honda car engines with this size bore.....
 

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#22 ·
Here's a pic of the middle case, shot from the topside, which shows where I had to clearance the case for the stroker crank. I marked all the areas I cut with a red paint pen. I took another shot from the backside, just to show a different angle....

I'm told that .030 is the minimum clearance: so just to be safe, I put washers under the connecting rod bolts that are .060 thick. I clearanced the cases a bit at a time until everything spun free

Still need to do the clutch basket, it DOES hit..... thats another story....
 

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#23 ·
I love looking at stuff like this... you guys who tear these things down to make them faster have nothing but my respect. I do my own maintenance, but that's it! Tearing into one of these modern motors with all the insane electronics and sensors scares the hell out of me!

And besides, I already have too many other expensive hobbies!

I look forward to seeing more of your build! And good luck with all your other stuff too!
 
#24 ·
Looking really good man, clearancing the case sucks, and those piston ring compressers are a god send.

Any upgrades for the clutch, 2 or multi stage lock up?
 
#25 ·
Hey Chuckles, I been wondering when you were show up, good to see ya here :)

Well, the clutch is upgraded, but not to the level of a 2 stage or lock up. This is for a roadrace track, not dragstrip (and I'm probably nuttier than squirrel turds for taking this on the track.......... *evil giggles* hehehehe)

So a roadrace bike has really different requirements for a clutch obviously.... and I think I'm addressing that

Outer basket is a new Falicon billet
Inner basket is new OEM
Pressure plate is new OEM (I dont know if this is really a wear item, but I got a new one, so why not)
Clutch fibers / steels are OEM, low mileage and in good shape

Other parts -
I'm gonna run a ZX10 judder plate / clutch cushion. Last year I tried running this, but the stack height was just too tall & it wasn't going to work w/o taking out a plate. So.... I ordered some new OEM steels in the alternate size, each is .3mm thinner. All else being equal, this SHOULD compensate for the extra thickness of the ZX10 plate, and allow the stock # fibers to be run. IF I get this to work, I'll post up more details (part #'s, measurements, etc), just to share with everyone else
All 5 clutch springs are HD schnitz. Schnitz says you can run 3 on the street (with 2 OEM's), for a softer clutch lever, or 5 for all race. I've found that all 5 on the street was plenty manageable, even with a shorty clutch lever. I think that extra clamping pressure definitely helps

Other mods -
For the inner clutch basket, I'll do what I usually do, and drill some extra oil holes, to make sure the plates get more oil than stock & help keep cool
Also, the clutch pusher for the pressure plate, I have this notched / grooved slightly. When the lever is pulled in, it lets more oil get to the clutch, but when the clutch lever is let out, thats blocked and should be the same as stock. Yes, that probably takes a bit of oil away from the rest of the motor, but only when the clutch is pulled in, and at that point there isn't much stress on the rest of the motor. Also I've done several things to help increase oil pressure / volume to the important parts of the motor, so I should have some extra to spare (removed counterbalancer, plugged oil hole, also eliminating oil cooler, and removing oil restrictor for that too, plus a 10% higher volume oil gear)

I've found those oiling mods really help keep the clutch cool & lubed & make for much smoother launches (not that I try to launch hard anyways, but sometimes if I got aggressive with the totally stock clutch it would get super grabby!!)

This bike is stock wheelbase, and actually slightly taller than stock And I'm only about 165 lbs, so I can't really hit the bike that hard w/o spinning the tire or flipping it over!!!

If I start getting clutch slippage, I'll think about running some aftermarket fibers, thats about the only step left to get more lockup, but I think I'll be OK.

This bike will get a lot of dyno work done, and thats when it will slip, since the dyno we use is a Factory Pro, doing full throttle / steady state runs. Thats the only time a bike like this will see 100% throttle, 100% load. That is a good "acid test" of the whole system - if something is gonna break, its gonna do it then!!

I just hope she dont blow up on the dyno, but if she's gonna blow, its better to have it on the dyno than on me!

Side notes - I'm hoping to make it to Road America this year (July 13 & 14th). This bike should SCREAM on that track, esp the front straight!!

Also, as noted above, I've got some plans on changing up the oiling system - that Superbike radiator won't allow room for the oil cooler, so I'm gonna get rid of it. But..... I have something in mind to replace it.... I'll post some more details of that soon

I've got to go to the office today (I'm a financial analyst for a big corporation - more or less I do reports for the executives - I make sure they get what they want, when they want, how they want it....) So a lot of my day is gonna be burned there. Just got something that has to be done.

Anyways, I'm putting a stud girdle plate on the bike. They tell me I have to do some block clearancing to make it work, (clearancing the bottom case). I'll put some pics of this up today if I can, maybe show some details / pics of the other oil mods I have planned
 
#31 ·
Anyways. Back to the bike....

I was going to run Two Wheel Werkz stud girdle on the bottom end.

Problems - it wont work with my APE studs. The holes in the plate are too small, and even if i drilled them out, the APE studs aren't long enough to allow the nut to fully thread on. Even without the washer underneath the nut.

So, I could order TWW's stud kit, which is supposed to work with their plate (and I assume it does). Then at that point I'll have to clearance my lower case to clear (btw, it looks like the PLATE itself doesn't interfere with the lower case, its actually the nut on the stud which needs clearancing)

I dont feel like waiting for that to arrive, esp since I'd like to get the bottom end together. When I do my final assembly I'm pretty anal about cleanliness, and I dont want to be test fitting the lower case to the middle cases if I've done the final assembly on those mid cases. All that will do is drop metal shavings down into the mid cases...

So I'm going to forget about the TWW plate for now and just move on. From what I've read, it looks like its more applicable to the REALLY high hp bikes (like 400 hp turbo bikes)...

As mentioned, I'm using APE case studs (and head studs too....) so that already helps stiffen / strengthen the block some.....
 
#33 ·
Love this kinda shit and will love to see it when its done. You have to put up some vids at least one 1/4 mile run up. I have a 600 and i recently rebuilt it and while i was in there did some work (not nearly this much). Its so rewarding when i pull up on a factory looking 600 and people here it and say " thats a 600?"

I bet you are uber giddy to get this thing done. Hell you probably have trouble sleeping at night thinking about all the mods you can do to it. I know i lost sleep for a few nights myself.
 
#35 ·
Thanks man! As I mentioned earlier..... your projects were part of my inspiration.... :)

I met you once by the way, when you live in KC, 5, 6 years ago ? Bought a set of 1K1 forks that had been revalved by Traxxion. I remember at the time, you telling me "Please dont tell anyone where I live". Now I'm beginning to know why you felt that way!! (worrying about somebody stealing your stuff)
 
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