Is a dyno break in expensive, and how much does it really buy you?

Thanks,

you are going to get flamed.

As far as break-in, everything i've been told is run it hard keeping the break-in revs in mind. So for the first 500 miles, run it to 8000rpm max with a combination of normal riding and hard acceleration now and then but not past 8krpm. You might want to change fluids after this period, (may want to have the dealer do this since they may have other things they need to service at the time like tightening the chain, check for abnormal wear on parts, whatever) and then 1k miles of 12,000rpm limit running it hard and then I believe another 1k miles of 15,000rpm limit. Dont quote me on this, I only glanced at the owners manual so far, the revs and mileages may read differently than what i've quoted.

As for breaking the motor in by running it hard but with those limits in place, as I understand it, it keeps the rings and freshly honed cyl walls from creating a "ridge" where as if you run it harder, this is less likely to happen. Some of the engine builders I used to work with when drag racing my former Honda (car, not bike) they suggested this method for new motors as well. This method has always worked for me without a problem.

Others may suggest otherwise or have a better more effective method. Some even say that "break in" on new motors (car or bike) isnt necessary at all and that the factorys design the tollerances in the motor to be within specific specs right off the lot. (I'll run mine my way thanks.)

As far as break-in, everything i've been told is run it hard keeping the break-in revs in mind. So for the first 500 miles, run it to 8000rpm max with a combination of normal riding and hard acceleration now and then but not past 8krpm. You might want to change fluids after this period, (may want to have the dealer do this since they may have other things they need to service at the time like tightening the chain, check for abnormal wear on parts, whatever) and then 1k miles of 12,000rpm limit running it hard and then I believe another 1k miles of 15,000rpm limit. Dont quote me on this, I only glanced at the owners manual so far, the revs and mileages may read differently than what i've quoted.

As for breaking the motor in by running it hard but with those limits in place, as I understand it, it keeps the rings and freshly honed cyl walls from creating a "ridge" where as if you run it harder, this is less likely to happen. Some of the engine builders I used to work with when drag racing my former Honda (car, not bike) they suggested this method for new motors as well. This method has always worked for me without a problem.

Others may suggest otherwise or have a better more effective method. Some even say that "break in" on new motors (car or bike) isnt necessary at all and that the factorys design the tollerances in the motor to be within specific specs right off the lot. (I'll run mine my way thanks.)



This is a safe tried and true method. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif It gives the motor a proper breaking in, without going overboard, risking damage.

This (http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) is all you need to know.

you are going to get flamed.



why would he be flamed for asking that??? im mean i could see for not searching, but that is a legitamte question.

btw, i would figure a couple hundred bux, and some oil and filter.

you will find many opinions on the traditional break in, as well as the motoman break in.

does anyone really think its necessary to change the oil after 20 miles?

does anyone really think its necessary to change the oil after 20 miles?



depends on break in procedure, as well as condidtions

does anyone really think its necessary to change the oil after 20 miles?



I've done that with all my previous bikes and there's a lot of shit that comes out with that oil, a nice, shiny flow that looks to contain bits of metal in it. The magnetic drain plug catches a good chunk of material as well.

Just be sure not to put synthetic motor oil in there until you've got at least 1,000 miles on it.

has anyone had their 750 dynoed yet? i'm interested..

This (http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm) is all you need to know.



I would tend to agree with this writeup. I'm not sure i'd want to blast it to redline as much as they suggest with few miles, but running it up in revs now and then is a good idea so the engine as a whole gets broken in.

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going nuts waiting for my 750 come in. Last week they told me one was coming in but it turned out to be a black/yellow one. Looked great, but I ordered blue/white. Haven't seen the maroon yet.

I really dig the blue bikes, but where stealth is concerned, I have to go with the black bike. You can never go wrong with a black bike. Here's why:

"911, what's your emergency?"
"Yeah hi, I just had a motorcycle pass me about 20 or 30 miles an hour over the limit and I think he's driving dangerously ..."
"Ma'am, can you describe what kind of bike it is?"
"Uhhh, well, it's black and it was fast ... "

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

does anyone really think its necessary to change the oil after 20 miles?



depends on break in procedure, as well as condidtions


I did my first after 50 miles and found plenty of metal shavings on the pan plug, I always do that with every new vehicle I have owned. Never know what liitle bits are left in there by the factory.

Well here is the TRUTH on motor break in. The motor is run for a short time ON the assembally line. BREAK IN is to protect the dealer from having to make costly repairs. If some thing is going to go wrong with it, it will usually occur in the first 500-800 miles. If your rpms are low and something goes wrong, the cost of reapir will be MUCH lower than if your up in 10k's. You should keep the rpms low for the first 100 miles or so, then change the oil. After that, lett'er rip!

The dealer cant get into the computer and see that you've been twisting it to redline before the "break in" mileage is up can they? I know on a local friends GTO, he sprayed his too hard on the street and had the window switch to deactivate the nitrous automaticly set right at redline. Turns out he ended up spinning the motor 1200 rpm PAST redline and toasted the motor. He removed the nitrous, took it back to the dealership and they pulled the logs from the computer which indicated it was revved to 7400rpm roughly (not good for an LS1 with stock internals/heads running dangerously lean due to redline fuel cut while on nitrous) but they determined that something was faulty allowing it to rev that high (duh, what they dont know is the car had a 120 shot of nitrous at the time of failure) and replaced the motor under warrenty luckly for him.

What i'm saying is, if change the oil after ~100 or so miles, then let-r-rip, if I take it in for the remainder of the "checkup" at 500 miles, will they plug it in and go "oh well your warrenty is void, you've been spanking the redline during break-in".

What I wanna know is it cool to throw revs while not in gear because I've read a few places that's bad. So is that just a myth as well?

Revving with no load doesnt put the right forces on the motor to allow the rings to seal and seat properly. This is double important on a new motor while still in the "break in" period. On top of that, I wouldnt rev it much until the engine is warmed up some. With some miles on the motor and warmed up, it really shouldnt be as big of a deal.

Someone go ahead and correct me if this is wrong, but it's what i've always understood talking to engine builders. (cars, not bikes, but same principal)

Reminds me of the kids that grab a shit ton of throttle while starting a cold motor just to impress the rest of the idjiots on a summer night.

The dealer cant get into the computer and see that you've been twisting it to redline before the "break in" mileage is up can they? I know on a local friends GTO, he sprayed his too hard on the street and had the window switch to deactivate the nitrous automaticly set right at redline. Turns out he ended up spinning the motor 1200 rpm PAST redline and toasted the motor. He removed the nitrous, took it back to the dealership and they pulled the logs from the computer which indicated it was revved to 7400rpm roughly (not good for an LS1 with stock internals/heads running dangerously lean due to redline fuel cut while on nitrous) but they determined that something was faulty allowing it to rev that high (duh, what they dont know is the car had a 120 shot of nitrous at the time of failure) and replaced the motor under warrenty luckly for him.

What i'm saying is, if change the oil after ~100 or so miles, then let-r-rip, if I take it in for the remainder of the "checkup" at 500 miles, will they plug it in and go "oh well your warrenty is void, you've been spanking the redline during break-in".



Well I don't know for sure on the 06's, but not in previous models. Besides, break in is RECOMENDED. If you pick the bike up, go in to the dealership parking lot and do a burn out with 0 miles on it and something breaks, there is nothing they can do about it. They HAVE to fix it. If you bounce it off the rev limiter they might have a case, but you shouldn't do that on a bike with zero or 10k miles on it.

i heard the mototune break in is good for the rings, but bad for the bearings. thats why u get all that metal build up. its your bearings. and your gears too

Reminds me of the kids that grab a shit ton of throttle while starting a cold motor just to impress the rest of the idjiots on a summer night.



+1

For break in, just reving the motor won't do it. Here is a example of how I break my bikes in. I drive it home the long way from the dealership, put about 20-30 miles on it that way. Then pick up my girl and cruise around for the afternoon with her on the back. Then after about 100 miles start getting on it. By the time I'm at 120 miles I've had it up to red line. I've done this twice with no problems and will be doing the same again shortly.

This is how i'm breaking in my bike so yes i think its the best way too. The first 100miles needs (slow rolling) of the throttle up to 6k rpm to seat the rings. Power on up to 6k through the gears then run for a minute at lower rpm's. Repeat(slowrolling) frequently all the way up to 900 miles just rolling more aggressive evey 100 miles. By 1000 miles it's broke-in and doing stand-up's in 3 gear.

100 miles up to 6k rpm
200 7k
300 8k
400 9k
500 10k service
600 11k
700 12k
800 13k
900 14k

I'm going to run mine in the MotoMan way...it arrives here in two days, then I'm gunna load her up. This will be the 4th Race bike I've run in. Most times we get two bikes, then run them in differently, one as per spec and one on the track.

The track bike has been quicker every time. From now on, we'll do both on the track, and have two quick bikes!

I really dig the blue bikes, but where stealth is concerned, I have to go with the black bike. You can never go wrong with a black bike. Here's why:

"911, what's your emergency?"
"Yeah hi, I just had a motorcycle pass me about 20 or 30 miles an hour over the limit and I think he's driving dangerously ..."
"Ma'am, can you describe what kind of bike it is?"
"Uhhh, well, it's black and it was fast ... "

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I work for the State Police and i have actually heard MANY calls like that :cool

I work for the State Police and i have actually heard MANY calls like that :cool

Yep, my best friend since second grade is a county dispatcher and gets calls like that every now and again.

Te he. :lol:

The long, drawn-out recommended break-in is a manufacturer CYA. Race motors don't get much of a break-in. They don't give Rossi or Hopkins a new bike/motor and tell them to go put 2000 miles on it before a race. They all get dyno break ins. Break-in is primarily to seat the rings and flush out gross manufacturing errors more gently.

You need high cylinder pressures to force the rings hard against the freshly honed cylinder walls to get a good seal, especially when new. The more the rings & cylinder walls break-in, the better the seal and the less "force" required to seal them. So, the sooner you do it, the better.

If you run the motor easy for too long, the blow-by past the rings will put a "glaze" on the cylinder walls and the rings will never break-in properly. Just riding it "normally" isn't bad for it and will do a good ring break-in as long as your "normal" isn't letting it sit and idle or running steady on the highway at 55 for hours on end.

As far as breaking in bearings - that's BS. I work for one of the largest bearing companies in the world and we put new bearings of all types on test every day and run them continuously at very high loads, high speeds and high temperatures for hundreds and hundreds of hours. There is no "break-in".

30 - 50 years ago, the machining tolerances and surface finishes we were capable of cost-effectively producing were very sub-standard compared to what we make today. Back then, a new motor or transmission needed several thousand miles to "lap" all the contact surfaces in to properly mate and get the "run-in" surface finish required for longevity. Not any more. Tolerances are in millionths or microns and engineered surface finishes can't even be compared to the lumpy scored-up surfaces of the past. The amount of "lapping" required, if any, is minimal and happens very quickly.

The most important thing in this "precision machinery" age is making sure the engine is warmed up so all the mating components are at their stabilized "size" before beating the snots out of it.

A slow warm-up isn't good either. Letting it idle for 15 minutes is bad. Get on it and ride with low to moderate acceleration and keep the revs down for a couple minutes or do what the F1, Nascar, MotoGP mechanics do: continuous burping the throttle up but not very high revs. It gets heat into the engine much faster than idling.

A manufacturer can't tell a consumer to go run their new bike (or car) hard to break the rings in. The wrongful death lawsuits would put them out of business in a hurry. They also don't want their freshly manufactured machinery getting beat on too soon just in case there are a few slightly "out-of-spec" components that got into it. It might blow up. Better to find out when the customer comes in with a funny ticking or other benign symptom.

A long slow break-in is in the manufacturers favor, not the owners.

Anyone ever break in a chainsaw motor??

Anyone ever break in a chainsaw motor??

LOL

Good Reference Point...................

So many just cant get it..............

Learn from this guy & those who race.

wow so many diff opinions. im still kinda torn even after reading the article.

of course i want it done the 'best way' but it seems most of you guys have different ways to go abouts that even if just varying slightly from moto man
:-/

i'd like to ask ron ayers what they do and recommend..

BILL DOOLS-
was your dealer recommending a dyno break in? what were they saying about supporting it and how much were they asking? would it be just that or would they also be running a wideband and giving you numbers?

... Learn from this guy & those who race.

Werd. The motor will snap one way or another regardless of run-in revs.

On and off the throttle kids, get that piston ring seal in there good and tight.

:wacko: Yeah I got a good laugh yesterday at a stoplight where two young kiddies on their new 06 GSXR 750's were playing bounce the engine off the rev limiter for extended periods of time.....:lol:

We run a family Suzuki dealership and we have a lot of customers, and loads break their bikes in differently.

There are some guys that wheelie from right outside the showroom and some guys that ride for miles like their bikes have throttle limiters.

We have never had a problem from any motor that has been broken in hard. That goes for our race bikes too.

Like I said before, I'm going to ride it like I stole it.

As Mole said, as long as it's warm, bearings cannot take a hammering - Read Motomans page fully and you'll understand. Guys that ride the first 100 miles easy...it's already too late...you have to load the engine in the first 20-30 miles.

isnt the motor revved to redline repeatedly by the factory to ensure seals. or by whoever assembles the motor.

i think its the transmission that really requires the break in.

:rolleyes
First 20-25 miles I put on my new '06 750 I went out and just plain got on it - no babying. No redlinin', but I just plain road the thing. I don't think I got over like 120 on the highway blasts. But I just plain road her...

The next almost 800 were on a roadtrip to and from MA this past weekend... There were "steady" stints at like 85 from time to time but for the most part.... let's just say it was a really fast and fun trip!:)

Goin' to get her serviced next. And then it's straight to the track.

Did essentially the same thing with my '04 R6 - well maybe I went a little longer with the intial miles... - but I had no problems after 11,400+ miles on that one.....

I have read many articles as well as talked to many motorcycle mechanics and racers.

From what I gathered from them here is how I am going to break in my new 06 750:

From the lot, start the bike up and wait till the engine gets to normal operating temperature.

Ride it hard, no babying, no redlining, through the gears up till fourth

Do a couple of rapid acceleration through the gears as well as some engine breaks.

Once I get home and I hit the twenty-or-so mile mark change the oil to get rid of all that crap that gets into it.

Leave the bike alone that night and start over the next morning and the morning after that making sure the engine gets warm before I take it out.

Service the bike at 500 miles make sure everything is straight and then ride it hard until about 1500 miles doing oil changes along the way.

i have a slightly different take that will no doubt get me flamed

i spank it from the outset, perform no service whatsoever and trade it in when the tires are shagged.... and no im not kidding !

I've rode my cousins 06' 600 a few times. He needs to get it lowered brfore he can ride it so he said I could ride it until then. I rode it twice since he got it (I have my own gix so there's really no reason to be riding his). I never brought the revs above 8k or so. I did get on it though. It has exactly 60 miles. Should it be ridden hard(er)? I did read some stuff on breaking in a new bike and what not. Kind of confused though. Is it to late for the rings to seal to there maximum tolerances? Should the bike be ridden up to 10-13k rpms a few times? Would like some advice since I care about both him and the bike. He deserves a properly broken in bike and everthing since he can't ride it yet. So when it is finally lowered and he can ride he won't have to worry about rev's and all that bullcrap. Plus he said to break it in. Thanks for reading.

I've rode my cousins 06' 600 a few times. He needs to get it lowered brfore he can ride it so he said I could ride it until then. I rode it twice since he got it (I have my own gix so there's really no reason to be riding his). I never brought the revs above 8k or so. I did get on it though. It has exactly 60 miles. Should it be ridden hard(er)? I did read some stuff on breaking in a new bike and what not. Kind of confused though. Is it to late for the rings to seal to there maximum tolerances? Should the bike be ridden up to 10-13k rpms a few times? Would like some advice since I care about both him and the bike. He deserves a properly broken in bike and everthing since he can't ride it yet. So when it is finally lowered and he can ride he won't have to worry about rev's and all that bullcrap. Plus he said to break it in. Thanks for reading.


Sounds like your giving the bike a good break-in. I don't think you need to ride it any harder or rev the motor 10-13k. Your about right keep it under 8k with hard accelerations followed by short 4-5k running. This way your loading the piston rings (seating them) and then allowing them to unload and cool a bit.

Okay man, sounds good. Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll keep doing that until it has around 500 miles or so.

I have taken mine above 12k once with like 400+ on it. Am I in any harm. I have kept it below 8 or so for the previous miles though...

Run it. Like I said before, race motors get about 3 minutes of easy running then get progressively harder runs at higher RPMs. Within less than probably 50 miles at best on the dyno and the tack, it's getting hammered hard.

I ran my new '01 600 for 50 miles with progressively harder and higher RPM. At 51 miles I was on the track racing it - bumping the rev limiter right at the end of the straight and in a couple other places. This bike saw 3 full seasons of nothing but race track and runs great. It's the smoothest 600 I've seen - almost no vibration at any RPMs. It now has over 4000 RACE miles (which means it has lived all it's life between 11,000 and 14,000 rpm, and it still pulls 104 HP on the dyno.

The only thing that seats is the rings and this is done in the first few minutes of running. Bearings clearances don't change!
Every race engine i build where i have the bike as well gets run-in on the dyno and is up to the red line being mapped within 10 minutes. My opinion as an engine builder is that this is the way to go. Cruise around and it will be crap power-wise. Oh and i run the bikes in on the dyno with a cheap semi-synthetic and it is changed within the hour ie after its been mapped.
What i will say is the latest bikes often take some time for the crankcases to settle down and only mileage can do this. I've seen countless machines built from new , for example, 115bhp at 100 miles, 120bhp at 200 miles and 125bhp from aout 400 miles and nothing has changed. A mate of mine says that when he builds a zx10 superbike motor he tries to start with a casing that has done about 5000 road miles as a new one will always give crap power! This is the reason why some people go to the lengths and expense of cryo treatment of parts.