August 6, 2005 -- An off-duty Bronx firefighter was killed when the motorcycle he was riding slammed into a car making an illegal U-turn near the George Washington Bridge, authorities said.
Dave Romero, 34, who worked at Ladder 48/Engine 94 in the Hunts Point section of The Bronx, died after being struck at 5 p.m. on Sedgwick Avenue.

Romero was on his Suzuki when a 25-year-old woman driving a white Acura cut in front of him. She was given a summons for making the illegal turn, but is facing no charges in his death, police said.

Romero "was the joy of the firehouse," said Eddie Brown, the firefighters' union rep for The Bronx. "He was always smiling." Erin Calabrese

RIP Romero

I was pushed off the highway last week in traffic. Called the state troopers and he did not do shit to the lady. I even had a witness that saw the whole thing and even saw her on the cell phone when she pushed me off the road.

I guess it is time we take the law into our own hands.

Since when is making and illegal u-turn murder????

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

P.S. ~ RIP...

Since when is making and illegal u-turn murder????

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

I dunno if you can call it murder, but several years ago a guy was making an illegal u-turn on I-70 east of here and caused an accident that resulted in the death of a motorist. He was hit with some pretty heavy charges. If I was a family member, I'd be getting a good lawyer and hitting the person with a civil suit to boot. Not being a dick or anything, but if someone caused my death, I'd want them to help pay for raising my fatherless kids.

I was pushed off the highway last week in traffic. Called the state troopers and he did not do shit to the lady. I even had a witness that saw the whole thing and even saw her on the cell phone when she pushed me off the road.

I guess it is time we take the law into our own hands.

I'm probably going to get flamed for it, but someone cuts me off, I risk the road rage to get them to pull over so I can dot their eye.

I followed a guy once into a parking deck to give him a piece of my mind, he was almost RUNNING away from me...I'm just gonna start kicking in the side of cars I think...or carrying some chains like in that Sega game: Road Rash.

I have personally punch mirrors and bang on the trunks of cars as revenge...

if i'm in a bad mood and there's a jackass asking for it, its a heavy boot to the door waiting for them.

lets be serious some type of punishment should be handed down to this guy....i was ran off the road the other day and luckily walked away even tho my bike didnt and the person didnt stop its just amazing the recklessness people have while driving......maybe he shouldnt be charged with murder but atleast manslaughter

road rash was a good game, that rider lawson was a pain to deal with.

It's no more terrible then when a cager does the same thing to another cager. The only difference is that it's a typical accident. it's more severe with motorcycle riders because the MC rider has no outer protection.

You have to remember you're seeing things from a biased point of view. If that guy was driving a car and she pulled a U, then the accident probably would have resulted in front end damage, and a ticket for the at fault party.

You can't change the severity of the punishment because YOU decided to ride a bike that day.

Dont get me wrong though...I get pissed when people drive like shiet, but you have to step back sometimes to see the full picture.

one of my friends died 3 weeks ago on his gixxer 6 when a 20 year old girl t-boned him. she didnt get charged with anything. its such bullshit b/c he wasnt speeding or anything. now hes dead, just b/c some dumbass doesnt know how to look both ways.

last week some lady turned into me and pushed me out of my lane. i pulled up to her at a stop light and asked her what the hell she was doing, her words exactly were " this lane is only big enough for one of us." i coudlnt believe it, the road rage took over. i punched her side view mirror and broke it. she was sooo shocked. i looked at her and told her "what do YOU need it for...you dont use it." and i drove off. shes lucky she got away with just that.

If you wanna split hairs, an accidental death is manslaughter, not murder. (Murder requires motive and intent.)

I don't know the details of the situation, but it sounds like the driver should be facing SOME criminal charges. Perhaps manslaughter, perhaps not, but a simple traffic violation certainly is not enough.

Keep in mind that the family of the victim can certainly sue the driver in civil court even if criminal charges are not filed. Sure, it's no substitute for justice, but it's better than nothing.

R.I.P.

Crazy shit happens on the road everyday. Be safe yall.

It's no more terrible then when a cager does the same thing to another cager. The only difference is that it's a typical accident. it's more severe with motorcycle riders because the MC rider has no outer protection.

You have to remember you're seeing things from a biased point of view. If that guy was driving a car and she pulled a U, then the accident probably would have resulted in front end damage, and a ticket for the at fault party.

You can't change the severity of the punishment because YOU decided to ride a bike that day.

Dont get me wrong though...I get pissed when people drive like shiet, but you have to step back sometimes to see the full picture.



+1

Well said...


If you wanna split hairs, an accidental death is manslaughter, not murder. (Murder requires motive and intent.)

I don't know the details of the situation, but it sounds like the driver should be facing SOME criminal charges. Perhaps manslaughter, perhaps not, but a simple traffic violation certainly is not enough.

Keep in mind that the family of the victim can certainly sue the driver in civil court even if criminal charges are not filed. Sure, it's no substitute for justice, but it's better than nothing.



Actually, if you want to split hairs it has to be more than an accident to be considered manslaughter. There has to be some sort of "wreckless" act. Simply pulling a u-turn is not considered "wreckless". Don't get me wrong, it's a crappy situation, but you have to look at it in true perspective like Gixxervan said. How many times have any of us done something knuckle headed behind the wheel? I know I have and I'm sure everyone on here has. I'm sure if you were the person that pulled the u-turn, your opinion would be very different than it currently is. It was an accident, nothing more...Just move on and be careful out there...

That is BS. I hate hearing about stuff like this.

It's all the more reason to wear your gear and to be smarter then the people driving around you.

You see NO ONE is absolutely not at fault in ANY accident. There are always things that could have prevented any crash with all parties involved. Now Im not going to get into the details, but basically we all take some risk when we drive, or ride, on any given day.

Like I said before, if one variable was different with the guy in the first example, he'd still be alive. If he'd watched the car knowing that the driver COULD do something stupid and even better to ASSUME she would have, he probably would have been better equipped to deal with the situation. He could have ridden in a different lane location, out of her blindspot, somewhere where he knew he would have an escape route if in fact she did do what we all know she could have done, and did in this case. On her side, she could have payed more attention due to the fact that Im sure the bike could have been heard, if not seen. She could have looked twice instead of once, she could have not been talking on the cell phone....etc. Both parties could have done things differently. But they didn't. And the unfortunate happens.

It's each of our responsibilities to protect our own welfares and to drive in a safe manner in efforts to not endanger others. Do any of us NOT break that basic rule? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

Remember this the next time you're riding in triple digits, or passing cars too closely, or running from the cops. Remember this when you are in a car and you catch yourself just before getting into an accident because you were talking on your cell phone. Remember this because if you don't, you may end up in the next story.

We all "get away with murder" at times. It's the times we don't that seem to stick though.

I can totally see both sides to this debate. Yes, the car driver fucked up, but that isn't murder. But how far do you take it? Should a car driver be held liable because somebody's ancient compact car didn't hold up? I mean what, they should have been in a Volvo with 6 air bags or something?

No.

there are NO accidents. Anything that occurs is a result of negligence.


I think she should be hit with a sort of punishment, Her reckless driving resulted in a death.

I dont change my opinion between bike and car, a death is a death because of someone.

i am just upset and cant really explain further. But she should be tried and sued.

Tried for what? For not seeing the motorcycle? It's a valid testament and one that would probably be used. There are times Im in my truck and didn't see a bike initially, but because I heard it I checked my blind spot and guess who was there! Sooo, let's say I checked my mirror and looked back and didn't see him still, and because the bike doesn't know not to ride in my blind spot I should get tried for murder? Get real man. Things don't get amplified because a motorcycle is involved.

It's your choice to ride the bike. You should learn to take the good with the bad.

It's all the more reason to wear your gear and to be smarter then the people driving around you.

You see NO ONE is absolutely not at fault in ANY accident. There are always things that could have prevented any crash with all parties involved. Now Im not going to get into the details, but basically we all take some risk when we drive, or ride, on any given day.

Like I said before, if one variable was different with the guy in the first example, he'd still be alive. If he'd watched the car knowing that the driver COULD do something stupid and even better to ASSUME she would have, he probably would have been better equipped to deal with the situation. He could have ridden in a different lane location, out of her blindspot, somewhere where he knew he would have an escape route if in fact she did do what we all know she could have done, and did in this case. On her side, she could have payed more attention due to the fact that Im sure the bike could have been heard, if not seen. She could have looked twice instead of once, she could have not been talking on the cell phone....etc. Both parties could have done things differently. But they didn't. And the unfortunate happens.

It's each of our responsibilities to protect our own welfares and to drive in a safe manner in efforts to not endanger others. Do any of us NOT break that basic rule? Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone.

Remember this the next time you're riding in triple digits, or passing cars too closely, or running from the cops. Remember this when you are in a car and you catch yourself just before getting into an accident because you were talking on your cell phone. Remember this because if you don't, you may end up in the next story.

We all "get away with murder" at times. It's the times we don't that seem to stick though.



Wow....I well thought out and presented post...

Don't see that too often anymore...Well said...

i coudlnt believe it, the road rage took over. i punched her side view mirror and broke it. she was sooo shocked. i looked at her and told her "what do YOU need it for...you dont use it." and i drove off. shes lucky she got away with just that.



On the record, I cannot condone such reckless and abusive behavior.

Off the record, that's still some funny sh!t... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tried for what? For not seeing the motorcycle? It's a valid testament and one that would probably be used. There are times Im in my truck and didn't see a bike initially, but because I heard it I checked my blind spot and guess who was there! Sooo, let's say I checked my mirror and looked back and didn't see him still, and because the bike doesn't know not to ride in my blind spot I should get tried for murder? Get real man. Things don't get amplified because a motorcycle is involved.

It's your choice to ride the bike. You should learn to take the good with the bad.



I was saying in no concern that it was a bike.
A death is a death.

When you put your hands on the wheel you are a professional, that is your job, that is your life. if you are careless, thats then your problem and deal with the consequences.

people dont feel responsible for their actions nowadays because things will get smoothed over.

Another thing I don't understand is why did they mention that he was a firefighter? Does it really matter that he was a firefighter instead of a gas station attendant or unemployed for that matter??? Is the media still stuck on this 9/11 stuff???

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

How can anyone say it's not different with a bike? That it doesn't deserve the manslaughter punishment? If person dies in a car wreck the offender can be charged with manslaighter. When kids or babies or whole families are killed in a wreck there are harsher punishments. What if the bitch had run over a pedestrian crossing at a crosswalk?

Oh wait it would have been teh pedestrian's fault for being on the road right? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Actually yes, it is partly the pedestrians fault for being on the road. Just like before...the pedestrian is assuming just as much liability when they cross the street.

For example when some dipshit simply crosses without looking and gets slammed by a semi truck....and the driver doesn't get any charges, it's the pedestrian's fault.

If the truck driver is speeding and was on the road for too long and hit the pedestrian who was crossing AT A CROSSWALK with the walk like on, then I'd say it was the truck.

Variables girl....variables. That's what makes the difference.

Also you can't put all the blame on one party. And in all auto accidents, there was negligence involved with both parties...usually one more then the other.

It's like suing a neighborhood pool because you jumped in the deep end and almost drowned because you couldn't swim that well.

You get the point tool.

I do,...it's apparent that you don't. I don't care how many times you flaunt your ass on here or internet cock tease some of these guys, it doesn't give you the right to call someone a tool simply because they're smarter then you.

Most of the people whining about motorcycles getting mistreated are the same people that do stupid shit on their bikes, or ride carelessly and bitch about accidents which THEY could have prevented regardless of who was at fault on paper.

And accidents are accidents...regardless of the vehicle type involved. Punishments should not be more severe simply because someone was riding a bike.

Im not saying that the girl in this example should go scott free...just that we can't change the rules and give more severe penalties because it was a bike involved.

It sucks, but I have to agree with Gixxervan on this one. Though I am naturally bias to motorcycles, one can't place the blame soley on a car driver when the death of a motorcyclist occurs.

Had the driver in the car intentionally ran the biker off the road, then yes, there is intent to do harm. However, I highly doubt that the 25 year-old girl in that car left her house that day with the intention on killing a motorcyclist. And that holds true for nearly 100% of the other motorists on the road.

In riding a motorcycle, you accept the inherant danger involved with doing so. In assuming that car won't make a U-turn, or assuming that car won't run a stop sign is negligence on the part of the motorcyclist. Complacentcy will kill you in two seconds flat if you allow it to persist. Watch where you are going and always assume the car won't stop.

I am a firm believer that anyone who makes illegal moving violations that result in an accident should face reckless driving charges, regardless of what hit what. But to assume the punishment should be as severe as manslaughter or murder is outrageous. If I get hit by a car while on my bike because I wasn't paying close enough attention, shame on me.

-J

Some really good points made N this thread.

Sucks that the people spoke about had to die becase of someone not paying enough attention.

I think they should have some commericals or somthing to make cagers more aware to look for us during this time of the year. People now a days pay little or no attention when on the roads and take driving for granted.

I tell people around me all the time, "watch the road and do other stuff when your out of the car."

Man I can't count the times that crazy shit has happened to me on the bike on the way to work. I just don't freak out when it happens.

There's guys that come right into my lane, but nicely, although right next to me...I'll ride next to them a bit staring at them wondering when they're going to see me....then I'll rev the bike up and they go swervin the other way....dumbasses. Then there's the guys that change lanes quick without looking, I just move a little over and speed past them...nice to only have to use a fraction of the lane.

Guys that don't pay attention behind me and have to slam their brakes so as not to hit me because they didn't see the line of cars in front of me with their brake lights on in rush hour highway traffic....(but of course I've already picked out my lane split so that the car in front of me gets hit instead of me...)

I remember one time I was right behind a porshe and we were going about 90 coming off the freeway, the guy on the access road didn't yield...I saw it coming and thought the porshe driver did too...figuring he would speed around, but instead he slams on the brakes just before the two collide and Im left with no where to go....but I already had my knees tight to get ready and brake, I had to brake so hard the rear got all squirly on me....but came out okay as soon as they gave me enough room to get around them.

They don't think as much as mc rider's do because they have the protection around them...
I wish everyone could experience riding a bike only for the increase in driving skills and awareness one gets from doing so. I think people would learn with a quickness how much attention is lost when they multitask or simply drive in a daze.

I say throw the book at her.

If the cop would have known that she for example smoked a joint last friday it would have been considered a completely intentional u-turn and the death would have been considered murder too.

The guidelines for what constitutes a heinous crime are ludicris in north america.

Give her at least a year in the country club.

I was pushed off the highway last week in traffic. Called the state troopers and he did not do shit to the lady. I even had a witness that saw the whole thing and even saw her on the cell phone when she pushed me off the road.

I guess it is time we take the law into our own hands.




Some dude threw a can at me and hit my leg. I pulled in front of him slowed to a stop, told him to get out and beat the piss out of him.

Since when is making and illegal u-turn murder????

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



when it causes someone to die.... if I burn a house down and I don't know someone is in it, is it vandalism or murder/manslaughter??? 'but I didn't know..'

and how are people amplifying the situation because he was on a motorcycle? he died because of her illegal u-turn. can you amplify a death? if she hadn't broken the law he would be alive today. that makes the difference. whatever they were driving a man was killed on the road because of someone else's negligence. regardless of what could of been done or how the planets are aligned.

good call FiReBReTHa

also, i've been chased and have chased "cagers" many-a-time. that's why i carry big ass ballbearings in my jacket. people aren't going to swerve at me/ try to put me on the ground/ run me into a cement divider. in VA the police hate motorcyclist. straight up. the cager is always right. don't expect any help from them. even the motorcycle cops hate our asses here!


R.I.P.

Since when is making and illegal u-turn murder????

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



when it causes someone to die.... if I burn a house down and I don't know someone is in it, is it vandalism or murder/manslaughter??? 'but I didn't know..'





You're an idiot....Way to compare apples to oranges moron...

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

Since when is making and illegal u-turn murder????

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif



that's why i carry big ass ballbearings in my jacket. people aren't going to swerve at me/ try to put me on the ground/ run me into a cement divider.



And that solidifies my point. I've been riding for almost 15 years and have NEVER been intentionally swerved at by a motorist. What are you doing to provoke it? You're not only a moron, you're an idiot too. And people wonder why motorcyclists have such a bad reputation...

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/bitchslap.gif

You took the words right out of my mouth sluggo.

And to elaborate...it's not the death that's being amplified, you're right. It's the punishment for the act.

If it had been 2 cars...there would've been damage to the vehicles and one person would've gotten a ticket and that's about it.

the motorcycle rider died in this situation simply because he was on a motorcycle.

Does that make sense?

I was pushed off the highway last week in traffic. Called the state troopers and he did not do shit to the lady. I even had a witness that saw the whole thing and even saw her on the cell phone when she pushed me off the road.

I guess it is time we take the law into our own hands.



I'm sick of seeing people on their cell phones on the highway, especially here in MN. It's time to up the fines!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Let me propose a careless driving infraction if you're on your cell. Don't know how much that is down here, but in Canada it's $400 - $500 plus points (6).

If you wanna split hairs, an accidental death is manslaughter, not murder. (Murder requires motive and intent.)

I don't know the details of the situation, but it sounds like the driver should be facing SOME criminal charges. Perhaps manslaughter, perhaps not, but a simple traffic violation certainly is not enough.

Keep in mind that the family of the victim can certainly sue the driver in civil court even if criminal charges are not filed. Sure, it's no substitute for justice, but it's better than nothing.



It would be involuntary manslaughter to be exact because she did commit a crime that did involve negligence on her part.

Hire an EXCELLENT lawyer and the family should be able to hand her ass to her on a silver platter.

Uh guys she can be tried for involuntary manslaughter as per legal definitions ...

"Manslaughter resulting from the failure to perform a legal duty expressly required to safeguard human life, from the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to a felony, or from the commission of a lawful act involving a risk of injury or death that is done in an unlawful, reckless, or grossly negligent manner see also reckless homicide at homicide
- The exact formulation of the elements of involuntary manslaughter vary from state to state esp. with regard to the level of negligence required. In states that grade manslaughter by degrees, involuntary manslaughter is usually graded as a second- or third-degree offense. "

Reference (http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=9pbv84prusru?method=4&dsid=19&d eid=1908836370&gwp=8&curtab=19_1&sbid=lc02b&linkte xt=involuntary%20manslaughter)

As stated, this can be debated on a state by state basis.

Sadly, this accident occured and someone died. end of story, illegal u-turn or not.
Be aware of your surroundings and anticipate. Know your out.