Greetings to all from a list newb.

I've just finished upgrading my '96 1100W to 1198cc x 12:1 CR, and will soon be looking to broaden the power band with more camshaft.

Anyone here have any experience with either the WebCam .352 x 243° or .377/.350 x 240°/230° lobe profiles?

thx, Ed

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please do tell the mods so far as i am going down this path soon.

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Mods so far are just the basics... an 1198 x 12:1 JE piston kit from Carolina Cycles, who also did the boring/honing (excellent work).

Since the engine had 7k miles and I plan to step up to more camshaft I put in a set of heavy Kibblewhite valve springs, and did some minor DIY port cleanup along with a standard three-angle valve job.

I've heard once or twice that due to the big sleeves the 1198's have a tendency to lose the first headgasket... initial thermal cycling, sleeves settling, whatever. If it's inevitable, so be it- but I want to put it off as long as possible so I installed a set of heavy-duty APE studs and nuts to replace the stock cylinder bolts.

Bought the bike last Fall; it had a bad wristpin bore on #4 and was knocking... the budget wouldn't allow Carillos and I don't plan to spray it (yet lol) so I installed a full set of new Suzuki rods. There's a Yosh 4:2:1 RS-3 system on it, and I've got a set of 40mm CV's to install once I get a set of needles from Factory Pro.

As of yesterday it has about 150 miles on it so I haven't really leaned into it... I also have a 1216 Bandit which has pulled 150+ rwhp and the 1100w feels like it has about the same power- once I get the big carbs on the 1100w it should be stronger than the 1216, since it has a much more modern cylinder head.

Ed

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In case you didn't already figure it out, get the Euro Config 3.0 kit from Factory. However, do NOT go for the BMC dual air filters. I've had to go this route due to needing the room where the air box is, but it does make for a much more difficult jet job. Also, the hose hookup is a touch different between USA 36mm and the Euro/CDN 40mm items.

If the new sleeves were properly installed, they should not move. IE, if Rohm or APE did the work, should be fine. Not a bad idea putting the serious studs in though.

Keep in mind that the lifespan of Kibblewhite, Yosh, APE, Rohm or any of the hi-perf valve springs is waaaaaay lower than stock, so get a free measure when new and compare every now and then to avoid surprises.

Good luck man....keep this forum posted http://gixxerforum.fikiranplaza.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

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Good to have you on board 1198! You can call me 1146 http://gixxerforum.fikiranplaza.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif ....the box of JE's is still sitting in my bedroom as part of the build up kit. Eventually!

If you want a xerox of the CDN carb section (factory shop manual) get in touch with me via popeyebird@hotmail.com.

Sounds like you could go over 160 at the rear end once you're dialed in...hehehehehe.
Mine's a '93 CDN with a bunch of non engine mods (except bolt ons). Maybe next winter!! I refuse to touch the thing until the wife and I have a proper garage. It sucks paying to have the bozo work done and I refuse to kill myself in the cold and rain etc.

Anyhow, keep the updates coming http://gixxerforum.fikiranplaza.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

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Thanks for the welcome, bcjohn.

There are just 200 miles on the 1198 at this point so I'm only now beginning to lean into it; I've made a few WFO runs up to about 8500 revs... hate clicking it so early, it's really waking up hard at about 6500 - 7000 (stock cams, in at 103°i/105°e at the moment) but I'd like to get a few more miles on the rings before I really fang it.

Hard to say for sure but it feels stronger than the 1216 in the Bandit- that one is fairly mild (11.6:1 JE's, mild port work, both GSXR cams, RS38's, Holeshot stepped header) but has pulled over 150rwhp on Lee Shiert's dyno... the B12 is a lot of fun to ride in a very "musclebike" kinda way, especially since the wheelbase is still stock.

The head on the 1100w has a much more "modern" port design and considerably bigger valves so it should outgun the 1216... something 160-ish would be nice, perfect for running around in the NC/TN/GA mountains this Summer.

Ed

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Hiya bcjohn... yeah, I'm pretty well up to speed on the needles I need; I've exchanged e-mail with Marc Salvisberg on a couple of issues, I know he has the bits for the 40's.

The airbox is on the garage floor for now, and I'm running foam UNI pod filters... I have lotsa hours (and parts for) tuning CV's with open filters from working on my 1216 Bandit... appreciate the head's-up but feeling very comfy with dialing in the carbs.

I concur with what you've written about the sleeves- if they were properly installed they shouldn't settle appreciably. I know that there are a few machine shops around that advocate pinning the headgasket through the freeze plugs between 1&2 and 3&4 on this combination, so the APE studs were just "cheap insurance". I'm running a steel Cometic gasket and don't expect any problems at 12:1... the guy I've heard talking the most about pinning the deck is definitely running a heavy load of N²O on a regular basis.

This seems a nice forum... have already exchanged a few mails with other users... as long as it doesn't become a free-for-all like some boards I'd be happy to stay and swap tune-ups and ideas.

Ed

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxr1198:
Thanks for the welcome, bcjohn.

There are just 200 miles on the 1198 at this point so I'm only now beginning to lean into it; I've made a few WFO runs up to about 8500 revs... hate clicking it so early, it's really waking up hard at about 6500 - 7000 (stock cams, in at 103°i/105°e at the moment) but I'd like to get a few more miles on the rings before I really fang it.

Hard to say for sure but it feels stronger than the 1216 in the Bandit- that one is fairly mild (11.6:1 JE's, mild port work, both GSXR cams, RS38's, Holeshot stepped header) but has pulled over 150rwhp on Lee Shiert's dyno... the B12 is a lot of fun to ride in a very "musclebike" kinda way, especially since the wheelbase is still stock.

The head on the 1100w has a much more "modern" port design and considerably bigger valves so it should outgun the 1216... something 160-ish would be nice, perfect for running around in the NC/TN/GA mountains this Summer.

Ed

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, your gsxr should pull the Bandit. Those '96 cams are profiled for a killer midrange. My '93 profiles are for more overlap and slightly more lift, but at the cost of moving the oooomph a touch higher up the scale (supposedly). Mind you, my dyno curve has a beautifully flat torque curve for a few thousand rpms. Can't beat these machines, eh what?

At this point, my plans are to replace the stock springs as a set with a new set of the same. If the stock cams are still in good shape, I'll probably leave them in, otherwise will go for a set of 'drop ins'.

My big problem right now is the exhaust canister. Had the thing dialled in, then the guts of the SuperTrapp rotted!! Have a nice poser Arrow carbon fibre to go onto the ss headers, so hopefully will get the power back without the useless racket.



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Yeah, I recall reading that the lobe profiles were revised in '95 to add some midrange thrust... haven't done much with phasing on this one yet; it's running pretty well at 103i/105e (stock was an odd timing combination, as I recall it was 107i/102e... unusual combo) but I'll probably dink with a couple of other combinations once I see what the dyno trace looks like.

There's an IDBA race at Rockingham this weekend... was gonna take the B12 but didn't get some of the bits I needed so I'll put a couple of time trials on the 1100 instead. The Bandit has run 136+ in the traps, it'll be fun to see if the GSXR will break 140.

Ed

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now this is the place i want to be.
mine is a 96 1100 also and i have the dynojet yoshi and k&n i am thinking about an vansen hines ignition advancer and dialing in the cams like you were saying.
please keep me updated with the cam mods and i would like youre opinion on where to next.
you guys are way ahead of me technicaly.

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rowerat:
now this is the place i want to be.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, not a bad lil' forum... nice to find a few folks who like to hash over some tech issues without having to wade through a lot of OT horseshit to find it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i would like youre opinion on where to next.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol If it runs good and you're happy with it leave it the Hell alone ; ) ...once you start doing internal mods you're headed down the path of rapidly diminishing returns (j/k)

Ed



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Hey 1198, I think I've figured out why the slightly odd timing on the '96 cams. Possibly the factory wanted that overlap flat spot to hit right at the 55mph zone to keep things quiet and nicely EPA'd????

I've heard you can really chase your tail trying to keep the exhaust charge from trying to pop out your carbs etc at that point. I thought that was part of the reason for the joins between the header pipes on 1 and 2, then 3 and 4, though I haven't sat down with a pencil and paper to draw the flow and see if I can make sense of it. Fortunately on mine, the drop isn't drastic or of long duration. Hell, its still developing a shitload of torque their anyway http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Let us know how the trap speeds turned out.

Hey Rowerat, welcome to the water-pumper house. Make sure your advancer is adjustable. Most of those fixed ones are really haywire on the amount of advance. For example, Yosh recommended +4, two UK shops recommended +5 and Factory came the closest (for MY bike) at +2.5. On the dyno, the best shot was +2. Given the tolerance spread on bikes, you could get more power by going slightly retarded to slightly advanced. Anything beyond what the motor needs just translates into power robbing heat.

Like 1198 says, once you get started, the $$$ can just float away http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif I've poured many thousands into the chassis, suspension, cooling and lubrication systems and am just now turning my rapidly dwindling finances towards the motors internals. For the 160hp range and under, you can pretty much get away with the stock bottom end. Its bulletproof. Keep the comp ratio at 12:1 and just do a good grind on the head with a cleanup on any casting flaws in the ports (equalize the cylinders somewhat). I've spent a fair bit on the 'peripherals' such as coils, wires, heat shrouding blah blah blah in order that the extra bhp can 'grow' into the existing environment. Do NOT want to throw a rod or break a crank.

After some minor motor shit (pistons, springs, valves, studs, manual tensioner etc) comes.......NOS!!! Well, someday maybe http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif Still have to pay off the wife's newish bike!

Ciao to all for now

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thanks bcjohn
which of the adjustable ignition adv do you recomend. also the adjustable cam sprockets.
its only money anyway.
and i would only give it to my kids.
better spend it then.


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Hey I'm a newbie too.
I've got a 95 1100 with a few mods and stock cams at 105/106. It helped out on top from stock timing. I gained 3 or 4 hp up top. I've been thinking of having Lazer port my head and buying some cams. Those web cams you listed are kinda small. I had a yosh stage 3 cams in an air cooled 750 and It ran fine. no drivability problems, and the yosh cams are big. I would go with the 383/352 web cams. You can get away with them and your stock guides if you use the ti retainers from Ape.
Ed

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

Thanks for the feedback, Edster... I was planning to swing the intake cam around to 108° over the weekend; it really doesn't have nearly the topend charge I was looking for at 103i/105e.

What hp/torque numbers did you pull on the dyno with that combination? Where did it hit peak torque?

thx
Ed

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I dynoed at 141rwhp dynojet. with stock pistons and the other mods in my sig. that was with the 105/106 lobe centers. with the stock cam sprockes I made 137rwhp. After the piston kit my hp was the same, and tq went up. I can't rember the torque right now, I'll have to dig up my dyno sheets. I definitly need cams. The stockers are tuned for midrange torque. Especially 95 and later bikes. I've had to really richen up my 41's in the midrange, and on top I can change main jets with no effect on hp. Right now I'm running a 175 main jet and I've went to a 230 with no effect on hp.

Your going to set your intake to 108? What about the exhaust? I would try 108/108. I was going to redegree my cams to that, but it's such a pain with the waterpumpers that I'm going to wait untill I get some cams.

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

I was thinking of going back to 108i/102e to build the top end back up... it certainly had more zing than the present 103i/105e or the 104i/106e I ran for a week or so before I did the teardown.

Yep, know what you mean about this thing being thirsty in the midrange... I have 40 pilots in now, and it acts like it would be happier on 42.5's... amazing, on the B12 (with the GSXR cams) I usually ran either 32.5's in cool weather or 30's in the Summer. I still have the stock 36 CV's on it at the moment, we'll see how it runs on the 40CV... I need to get the O² sensor installed on the 1100w, that makes tuning them a breeze.

Ed


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1198, I'm running 42.5s on my stocker now and it is much happier than with the 40s. This is with the 40mmCVs.

With the O2 sensor, do you mount at the 4-2 collector, or just weld onto a cylinder downtube???

Without the stock airbox, but with my huge dual BMCs from the Factory euro config 3.0 kit, I'm running 150 mains. The airflow is just nuts. It will be interesting getting it back on the dyno after I chuck the existing SuperCrapp canister and put on the Arrow.

These bikes are just a fucking joyride!!! http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

You guys keep me posted on the cam stuff. As time wears on, I'm thinking more seriously of getting a pair of drop-ins to go with the head work. Never ending.

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I Talked to John at Ape yesterday, and he said Ape no longer makes valve springs for the 1100W. John said they could get me a set of PM springs, but they haven't tested them yet. Anyone else have any ideas on valve springs? Any info on PM springs?

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

bcjohn, thx for the info on the 42.5's. Re: the O² sensor- on the B12 I mounted it just downstream of the collector in the midpipe, and will do the same with the 1100.

I just use the non-heated single-wire sensor; they'll be up to temp and reading long before the engine is warm enough to run hard, and never seem to cool off enough to stop sending as long as the engine is running.

Edster- I've heard a few shaky reports of APE springs in the past few months... whether they are true or not I didn't want to roll the dice, so I went with a set from Kibblewhite that I got through Carolina Cycles.

Ed

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I hear that the Kibblewhite's are a good product. I know that Billy Rohm makes a set of springs good to the 15,000 level (sheesh!).

On the adjustable advance question, got mine from Dechellis Machine years ago. Don't know who the current bunch would be. Cam sprockets are available from APE, Rohm, Yosh and no doubt a batch of others.

Edster, on the Pro shift kit, anything to look out for? I've assembled all the replacement parts (as well as the pro kit) and am ready to go. Decided to do some clutch maintenance and combine the shift kit shit.


For everybody's info, in a UK mag, one of the performance shops suggested putting in the intake cam from the same year 750, saying that it revved all the way with that. I'll dig it up and get the exact quote.

For a laugh, a bud of mine (gsxr guru) is loaning me the black boxes out of a couple of GSXR750RRs to try when I re-dyno with my new end can. One is the '86 and the other is the '89. Should be interesting, given the curves. Gotta watch that 14,000rpm rev limiter though http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif With a standard GSXR750wp box, I lose exactly one horsepower. Good for a giggle. Will keep all posted.

I've gotta stop spending on peripherals, or I'll never finish buying the motor stuff. That box of JEs just taunts me every time I go into the bedroom (correct place for pistons!).

Later fellow maniacs.

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Thanks for the info on the springs! The Pro shift kit is awesome!!! It bolted in no problems and the shifts are so smooth you all need to get one. I was impressed I didn't think it would make a difference, but when you see the stock piece and the bearing on the proshift kit it makes sense.

One other mod you guys should consider is the 4 spring clutch conversion. my clutch feels much better, easier to launch. No more tiny engagement area, and the best part is you use oem parts. Let me know if you want more info.

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bcjohn:
Should be interesting, given the curves. Gotta watch that 14,000rpm rev limiter though http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol Don't be too tempted to run on up and smack that 14k limiter, bcjohn... I can tell ya from first-hand that the "stretched wristpin bore" legend surrounding this engine is no idle myth ; )

Ed



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yea been there and done that.
blew it big time at 20000kms
thats using a 12000rpm rev limiter.
be real careful

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Ed, how did you do the 4 spring conversion. I've heard about drag bikes just stacking another diaphragm spring on top (3 count) making for excellent lockup....is this the direction you mean? Lemme know!

I was thinking about an 11,500 redline, given the stock bottom end (water pumper). While the shop manual says 11,000 plus/minus 100 rpm, it ALSO says 11,500 and 11,500 in the owner's manual etc. Mind you, the tach is reading about 500rpm high by that point (actually 500rpm high anywhere after 6,000rpm on the Dynojet dyno).

I normally short shift anyway, keeping the shifts in the torque curve (not hard with our machines). Just figured on 11,500 if one of the RR boxes provided a perf boost, or if I ever went for a Dyna 2000. Again, I really should keep this shit low on the list so I can keep buying engine buildup parts http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

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put youre name down in the dyna2000 forum i really will get a good deal on the boxes
http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

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The 4 spring clutch conversion doesn't use diaphram springs. I had the stock 2 diaphram springs and I added a third but my clutch was still slipping and the lever was hard to pull.
Now I have a stock outer basket, and an inner basket and pressure plate from an 86-89 Gsxr1100. And four barnett hd springs from an 86-89 1100. I still use all the stock hydraulics. Much better clutch feel and no more slipping. The guys at orient express say this is the strongest clutch aside from a lockup. In fact to use a lockup clutch on our bikes you have to have the four spring conversion.
I got mine from orient express, but ape sells them too. you can get all the parts you need from suzuki except one aluminum spacer that goes under the nut that holds the inner basket on.
Let me know if you have any more questions.

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

Hey guys, check out this website. They have a mean waterpumper in the dyno section!
http://www.leesperformance.com/dyno.htm

Hey does anyone know if Dechillis is still in business?



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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Edster:
[B]Hey guys, check out this website. They have a mean waterpumper in the dyno section!
http://www.leesperformance.com/dyno.htm

Lee's shop is not too far up the road from me; that's where I buy dyno time. He builds some wild shit... for example he's got a GSXR600 with a 'busa engine shoehorned into it; it's such a tight fit you'd have to pull the engine to check the valves http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif



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edster
did you use genuine diaphram springs when you did the 3 spring conversion or barnett?
also who is having a win with the cams
ie. which is the best combination so far.
just got arp cam sprocket and want to know best inlet exhaust combination (961100)
love this forum
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[This message has been edited by rowerat (edited 04-17-2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rowerat:
also who is having a win with the cams
ie. which is the best combination so far.
just got arp cam sprocket and want to know best inlet exhaust combination <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So far I've tried the stock phasing (108i/102e), 104i/106e, and 103i/105e... going back to the stock phasing this week, will post the details in a day or so, I think it has the best top end power... the other two setups run pretty well in the midrange but really didn't get up and howl the way I wanted them to.

Ed



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When I added an extra diaphram spring it was a suzuki spring. All three where suzuki. I still have all my stock pos clutch parts if anyone is interested. I wouldn't even mess with the diaphram clutch. Once you switch over to the older 4 spring you'll know why!!

Thats cool living right by lee's cycle service. I saw the new sportrider, and they had that 600 with a busa motor. I remember reading about lee's wild creations before. He's nutty!!!

lol Yeah, he's got that "mad scientist" air about him, that's for sure.

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Lee the Mad Scientist. That's funny!

I just ordered some cams and springs from Orient Express. I went with the Web billet 377/350. They should be here next week, so next weekend I'll be putting them in! I'll let you all know how it turns out.

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

Cool, as we discussed at the top of this thread that's one of the grinds I am looking at... APE has them for $599, Carolina Cycles sell them for $600; what was the going rate at OE?

I called Yoshimura yesterday... they've recently discontinued their Stage 1 (SUXR171) and Stage 2 (SUXR152) camshafts and no longer have them in stock... too bad, with all the recent emphasis on the 'busa and GSXR1k there should be a good supply of 1100w's around at bargain prices.

I've placed an ad under the "Wanted" section of these boards to see if I can turn anything up... probably will eventually just go with the same WebCam grind you've chosen, it seems like it should have pretty good all-around power, especially with the extra displacement to calm it down a little.

I have a set of needles coming from Factory Pro for the 40CV's; those should be here before the weekend so I'll step up from the 36's... I've got the plastic off to swing the cams around to 108i/102e so this should also contribute to a noticeable improvement in power on top.

Anyway blah blah blah lol yes, please post your impressions of the 377/350; very curious to hear how they run for you.

Ed


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Interesting stuff on the 4 spring clutch!! I'll have to archive a bunch of these posts so I don't lose the tips when I get to the motor!!!

Rowerat - where's the Dyna 2000 forum? (just signed on after a long weekend...perhaps surfing will answer the Q?)

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i posted it in the member discount area.
get all youre mates to get one and we will see how cheap we can get them.
i think the current prices are pretty good though.

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The price for the cams was the same at OE. I originally called ape, but they said the cam cores were on short supply and I'd have to send my cams in. I called Orient and they could get them outright from web, so I went with them.

I was planning on running some bigger cams, but John at ape convinced me otherwise. He said they have problems keeping valve springs in these motors with the big cams. I would also have to buy titanium retainers for increased valve seal clearence.

What does running the cams at 108i/102e do compaired to running 108i/108e?

When I set up my buddies air cooled 1216 motor with a Lazer head and 370 cams Lazer recommended 108/108 for street strip and 110/110 for all out top end hp.

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
What does running the cams at 108i/102e do compaired to running 108i/108e?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FWIW, here's a link to an exchange I've been having over the past couple of days:
http://forums.dragbike.com/discus/messages/591/5487.html?987799540#POST40995

I've got the time to do a more little research over the weekend; will get back to ya later.

Ed Henderson


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Edster,
Spent some time last night with indicators on the piston crown and the exhaust side of the 1100w; did a bit of mapping of the relationship between the two with a degree wheel installed.

After reading a number of posts on the dragbike.com forums on this topic I'm going to stop using "centerline" as a measure of cam timing- it's too general- and start looking just at the opening/closing numbers.

At one point I had the exhaust cam swung around to a 109° centerline; at that point the 0.050" (old car-guy habit, I'll start using 0.040") closing number was 1° BTDC... far too early to gain any good "siphoning" effect from the exhaust system across the piston dome. With the exhaust centerline retarded to 102° (the limit of the slotting job I had done in the sprocket) the 0.050" closing number became 8° ATDC, a much more useful number... puts the 0.040" number somewhere in the range of 15° ATDC, I suspect.

After I get a few more cups of coffee in me I'm going to work on mapping the intake side the same way; I think I will strive for a combination that has the intake fairly far advanced (low-100's) with the exhaust retarded (102°) to see whether the increased overlap wakes this dog up a little.

Will let you know what I end up with for 0.040" numbers; I'll also have some data on the effect on cold cranking pressure later today to post.

Ed

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Yo Edster

Carolina Cycles had a set of the WebCam 70-472 cams in stock; it was too much for me to bear http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif so I grabbed 'em.

Between the cams and the 40mm carbs I'm looking forward to waking this thing up.

BTW on the cam phasing deal- I ended up with the stock cams in with the intake opening .040" point at 19°BTDC and the exhaust closing .040" point at 11°ATDC... using the standard terms that setup works out at 101/101. Throttle response is very good there, with tons of midrange (6.5k to about 9k)- but the cams are just too mild for this displacement, it kinda goes off to sleep at about 9500 revs.

Ed


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Hey are those cams the same ones I got? I don't know the pn just the lift and duration.

I've tried some cam timinging adjustments, but I think the cams are just too small. I want my powerband to be strong on top like a 750. With my pipe and 41 flatslides my bike is a pooch on top. It's got some awesome midrange though. Now I just have to move some torque up a few thousand rpm's and I'll be good.

Congrats on the cams I hope they help us both

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95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

so i take it that 101in 101ex is about the best so far.


------------------

Edster: yes- same grind, the .377i/.350e lift combination... should run pretty well. I'm confident that I've got enough piston-to-valve clearance- the JE's have deep pocket machining- but will doublecheck retainer-to-seal clearance on the intake side, just to be safe.

Rowerat: the 101/101 setup runs pretty well... very happy with the midrange thrust. Riding this bike back-to-back with the Bandit really underscores the difference in the "generations" of the big GSXR; with the early Gixxer cams the B12 scorches right up and smacks the limiter, while the 1100w is a lot more civilized.

Is 101/101 "best"? I dunno... it certainly gives a lot of smooth power in the midrange, which is a fine asset on a street bike... then again, the stock phasing with the later intake opening had a nice "hit" to it. Sure wish I had a dyno in the garage!

Ed



------------------

thanks for the goss ill give it a try.

------------------

'k, Rowerat... good hunting.

Edster: ...the WebCam bits arrived today; they're ground on standard Suzuki iron blanks- so they'll be a breeze to time, and should run forever if they're broken in right.

Ed



------------------

Damn! I should have ordered my cams from carolina cycle too. I ordered my cams last week and Orient shipped them out yesterday, and you still got yours first. Oh well I guess I'll find out how they work before I even install mine. I hope my gixxer will rev up and smack the limiter like your bandit1200. what year cams are in your bandit?

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

mmmm Don't have the part numbers here at the office, as I recall they're from the '90-vintage 1100 engine.

I'll probably dick around with the cams this coming weekend- but there's also a chance I may be in my single-dad mode, which will screw *that* plan up- so who knows you may still get yours installed first.

BTW exchanged e-mails with Laurie at WebCam today asking about retainer-to-valveguide clearance; since I have stock retainers and guides in place I was looking for a little insight. She thought I'd be okay but wasn't 100% sure, so I figure I'll check a few on the intake side to be safe.

Yesterday was better than fucking Xmas... got the cams and also got the package from Factory Pro with the jetkit for the 40 carbs... I'm good to go.


Ed


------------------

I talked to John at ape and someone at Orient and they both said the retainer to seal clearance will be ok with the 377's. Checking them wouldn't be a bad idea though. Are you planning to check piston to valve clearance?

Hurry up and get those bad boys in there!!

Thank you for the feedback on the retainer-to-seal clearance.

Piston-to-valve is gonna be safe, as long as I don't get too wacky with phasing... the JE's have deep valve relief. I'm hesitant to try to check that without light springs with the engine assembled... the valve springs I'm using are plenty stout, and I don't want to accidentally bend one o' those wee little valve stems by banging a valve into a piston crown.

Got the bike started with the 40mm carbs last night; maybe get the cams in this weekend, having the time depends on some other factors.

Ed

------------------

Hey did you get those cams in yet?
Mine didn't show up on friday, so no wrenching for me this weekend. Monday they should be here.

Did they come with a cam card? What does it say to degree the cams to?



------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

No, not yet... been screwing with other shit all week, haven't had too much time for the bikes.

I have gotten the big carbs running on it at least, so now *that* project is outta the way... didn't want to try lighting it up with a new set of cams on some completely untried/unknown carburetors.

Been waiting all week for my local dickhead parts dealer to call me to tell me the tires are in; called Friday and dumbass says "uhh oh yeah, they're here"... naturally getting them mounted/balanced on Saturday is out of the question http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/frown.gif I could have easily been there one evening this week to have the work done. The present rear has a stripe of cord showing about 120° of the way around, didn't figure I'd be riding them this long lol

Yeah, there's a timing card in there... WebCam recommends setting the intake 0.050" opening point at 15°BTDC and the exhaust 0.050" closing at 9°ATDC... 105i/106e.

Next weekend I'm supposed to meet up with some friends in the NC/TN mountains for a pass through the Deal's Gap area... if I can get the tires early in the week I'll get the cams in; if the tires don't happen I'll take the B12 to The Gap, the rubber on the 1100 won't make it that far.

Ed



------------------

lol Dammit Edster you shamed me into it... still gotta check clearances and set the phasing- but they're in the engine ; )



------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxr1198:
still gotta check clearances and set the phasing<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As noted above, cams are in. Lash clearance checks out good, two intakes are a little tight on the 0.004" feeler but sloppy on an 0.003" so I'm gonna let it roll.

There is *no* way in Hell to eyeball down into the valve spring pockets, so I had to make up a tool that fits in around the lobe to depress the bucket while allowing room for the dial indicator probe...

...I think we're gonna be okay, Edster; there's not a lot of clearance (at max lobe lift) to whatever stops the downward motion (coil bind? retainer-to-seal?) but it feels like it'll be 0.030"+ on the inlet side. I think it's retainer-to-seal, it feels like a "soft" stop.

Had a long day doing other stuff so I'm too burned out to set up and take precision measurements this evening... tomorrow AM I'll get the dial indicator queued up to set phasing and will post some free-play measurements for you after that.

As long as the clearances are okay it'll speak tomorrow for sure-

Ed

------------------

Okay, Edster here's the scoop:

Free travel at max lift, in side: 0.050"
Free travel at max lift, ex side: 0.070"

...safely over the 0.030" minimum, which makes me a happy guy http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

FWIW, I'm not talking about piston-to-valve clearance- the JE pistons have deep relief cuts and I'mm gonna roll the dice, I don't want to take the risk of bending a valve stem by banging it into the piston crown trying to move these big springs.

What brand is your 1147 kit? ...seems likely that guys like Wiseco and JE would figure safe room for someone using an even more race-oriented cam grind than these, but natch the burden is entirely on us to know for sure.

Okay, time for another cup of coffee then go lay in the timing. Gotta entertain the kids until early evening, but the engine *will* run today.

Ed


------------------

Thanks for all the updates. So the clearences at max lift ended up being 050/070 i/e. Not bad. I think your piston to valve should be ok. I had a gsxr750 with yosh stage II 1100 cams and wiesco 13.5:1 compression ratio. The cams had .390 lift on the intake side. I assembled the engine and set the cam timing then pulled it apart to clay it. I thought it might be tight, but I was wrong. I had about .070 clerance measuring the thinnest part of the clay.

I have a wiesco 12:1 1147 kit now. I think most of the aftermarket piston manufactures leave plenty of room for aftermarket cams.

The valve clearences didn't change much either, that's cool. I was having nightmares about buying shitloads of shims. Ha,Ha

What kind of degree wheel and dial indicator are you using?

Hurry up and get that beast running!!!!!!!!
I can't wait to get my cams!!

Okay, they're set.

Tools? ...a degreeing kit from my buddy Dale Walker http://www.holeshot.com/cdk.html with a few handmade adaptors and an 11"-diameter Mr. Gasket wheel I've had forever.

Yeah, I was glad to see that the lash didn't move around much, too... I must have twenty shims here that are all the wrong size http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

The intake went in pretty much right on their numbers... I didn't slot *quite* far enough into the sprocket so I'm hitting the 0.050" opening point at 14°BTDC instead of the recommended 15°BTDC... so be it. The exhaust lobe is slightly shorter than spec... I'm closing at the specified 9°ATDC, but hit the 0.050" opening at 38°BBDC instead of their specified 41°BBDC... no big deal, the lobe heights are dead on.

Everything needs to be doublechecked but there's no doubt now it'll fire later today.

Ed

------------------

I need to make some of those handmade adapters. I'm using the stock ignition rotor to turn over the engine with a stud and a bunch of nuts to hold on the degree wheel. This is a complete pita because the stock rotor interfers with my dyna pickup, so I have to remove it and set the ignition timing too.
I just bought a few extensions and longer tips for my dial indicator. It's a pain to try to hit the bucket as straight as possible and avoid the cam lobe. What are you using?

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

I'm using the standard reluctor to turn the engine over; I still have the stock pickup installed so it's not too hard to manage as long as I'm careful with the wrench. I did turn a piece that centers closely inside the reluctor and spaces/centers the degree wheel out about 2.5" to give me some working room.

My dial indicator has a brass extension about 4" long... came with the Holeshot kit. I did have to reduce the diameter at the end to be able to sneak it in around the cam lobe, there's not much clearance there to work with on this engine.

Got 'er lit up a little while ago; no problems, I think you'll be good to go. I only let it idle down for a few moments to listen to the idle, otherwise kept the revs up over 2k to keep the lobes wet... got a bit of a lope to it at idle for sure, although not jittery or unstable. I didn't ride it, I have some carb adjustments to make first... but couldn't wait any longer to hear it run http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

As soon as it cools a little I'll run a compression test... with the stock cams it had been cranking right at 240 psi, curious to see if there's any change now.

Anyway so far, so good... back to the garage.

Ed

------------------


[This message has been edited by gsxr1198 (edited 04-29-2001).]

Okay, Edster- here's the deal...

I'm at least a couple of steps shy on main jet but the increase in power is *very* pronounced... the bike wants to take off like a missile at about 7 grand, and by 8k indicated it's really honking.

I ran it up to around 10k indicated a couple of times... it's still gonna be pulling very hard up there once the mixture is right, but had obviously nosed over so I backed out to save the plugs.

Bottom line? ...you aren't going to be disappointed in the new cams.

Ed


------------------

That's good news about the cams. I'm glad there working good. When you have the jetting worked out do you think they will pull to redline? How are your new carbs treating ya?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
That's good news about the cams. I'm glad there working good. When you have the jetting worked out do you think they will pull to redline? How are your new carbs treating ya?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, no doubt about them pulling all the way up! ...I just need to give them the fuel to make it up there without nibbling the ground electrodes off the plugs http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

The new carbs are close, just need to get the fuel curve right. I'd been running the 36mm CV's with 157.5 mains and the bike was very doggy on top (too rich); when I got the jetkit for the 40's they recommended starting with 150's so that's what I did.

I'm literally all the way up with the needles now (plus about 0.050" of shim) and it still has a lean stumble as it comes off the pilots, so I need to move up to something in the 155+ range and take some needle back out of it... if you milk the throttle to keep it from going dead lean it will run pretty hard for a few thousand revs but noses over for good before it hits 10k. I dunno, I may throw the 157.5's or a set of 160's in it and trim back to slot #2... I should just get off my ass and weld in the O² sensor bung that's been sitting on the bench for a month now lol ...that's the best way to know exactly where you are.

Anyway, the cams rock- the engine definitely feels plenty stronger- GET YOURS IN THERE!

keep us posted man
Ed



------------------

I talked to Orient today and they said they shipped my cams and stuff on friday. Looks like I know what I'm doin this weekend!

Edster

It fucking flies.

I've still got some work to do to get the fuel in (and out) where I want it but the new power is impressive.

Hope you get your shipment in from Orient! ...this setup kicks ass.

Ed

------------------

I just got my cams, springs and headgasket today. It might take me a few days to get it all together but it won't be long now.

It f**kin flies huh!
Cool, How much hp do you think they gave you?

Hard to say... the increase is a *ton* on top compared to running the stock cams and stock carbs (with the mains two or three steps too big)... feels like it could be as much as 20 horses increased overall, but you know how easy it is to be deceived lol

It's still a little unbalanced for mixture... I put a set of 42.5 pilots in it but it's still looking for more (45's may be enough for Summer, but it will want more in Winter) so I've got the needles jacked 'way up to try to keep it pulling in the midrange. I went from 150 mains (I know you're not running Mikuni CV's) up to 157.5's... much better on top end, may be enough for Summer but I'll know for sure once I put the a/f gauge on the bike next week.

Anyway, YES it FLIES, you won't be disappointed http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif ..it's got ferocious top end, I didn't bang the limiter with it but there's no doubt it'll still be pulling as high as you want to take it... been up to 11 on the tach and it was still chargin'...

Ed

------------------

Your makin me jealous now!
I better hurry up and get those cams in.

What kind of head work do you have?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
What kind of head work do you have?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The bike had already had a three-angle seat job laid on it when I got it, so I concentrated on a basic port/bowl cleanup... the ports in this head are so-o-o-o much more modern than the early o/c engines (like my B12) that I really didn't want to bugger it too much.

This particular casting was pretty good in the bowls, so I just cleaned up what was there and blended in the backside of the valve seats to the bowl wall. Moving up the port I cut the valve guides flush with the port roof and narrowed the port dividers... did a little work on the intake short-side radii to ease the turn slightly.

Pretty much the same on the exhaust side except there I took the ports to as much as a "D"-shape as I could (roof only, left the port floor alone) within the confines of the header primary ID... just took a little here and a little there, not an extensive re-shaping job.

Other than that I just matched the intake boots to the casting and left it alone.

Got those cams in YET? http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

Ed




------------------

Don't have em in yet. I'm going to start this week. I'm a little slow a work so I have some free time during the week.

I've been working on my newest project. Twin turbo y2k z-28. I just got all the cast iron parts back from the ceramic coater. They look awesome except they coated the inside of the turbo housing and now I don't have enough clearence for the impeller. Nothing a whole lot of time with some scothbrite can't fix.

My bike head is completely stock right now. I have to pull the head and install the springs. I might go with a porting job like yours over the winter. Stock valves, 3 angle and some port work sounds like all these bikes need.

Have a good weekend


------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Stock valves, 3 angle and some port work sounds like all these bikes need.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's the conclusion I came to, as well. The ports are really well laid-out, valves are plenty big enough... they just need a little detailling here and there to optimize. Since there were some miles on the engine it was easy to see where flow was smooth and where it needed a bit of help.

The Z-28 project sounds cool... I'm a diehard bowtie kinda guy... once I finally get "done" with the bikes I have a long-delayed street rod project to get back to playing around with (tube frame, open-wheel, 'glass body, have a 4.3 V6 for it but left room for a big-block if needed http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif should finish up at around 1800 pounds, 275 - 300 horses)...

so many projects, so little time lol
Ed



------------------

So many projects so little time and money!

That street rod is a perfect candidate for an LS1 retrofit. I'm very impressed with these motors, there like the hyabusa for chevy guys.

lol "time and money"... you've hit the nail on the head.

I screwed up with the 4.3.... not by choosing it per se but by waiting too long to pick up some of the parts I wanted to run... there was a (relatively) small-port factory aluminum head available for it for a few years and I didn't pick up a pair while I had the chance... oh well, I'll have to go with Brodix http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif ...with the right parts it should be easy to pull 300+ out of the V6, and frankly I'd rather have the 100# weight saving over the SB V8 in a car this light.

But this is a water-cooled Gixxer board, so back to the topic .... http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Ed


------------------

Well since my cams aren't in yet I guess I can stray from the topic a little.

The new Ls1 engines are all aluminum. They weigh 80lbs. less than their iron block truck counterparts. and no distributor in the back. Very easy to work on if its not in an F body. Right now my car is bone stock and pulled 316rwhp and 324rwtq. these things pump out upwards of 450 with heads, cam and exhaust on a stock short block. It would probably be cheaper than your built v6, and if your v6 is an iron block it might be close on weight.

Now back to the important things
I gotta get some wrenches turning, my gixxer is too slow

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

I almost forgot. I just picked up a stant thermostat pn:13849. Is that the right thermostat? Where do I drill the hole, and what size?
Thanks

Agreed, an aluminum-block V8 would probably weigh less than my iron-block 4.3.... stop reminding me, okay? http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

Yes, that's the right thermostat... add a single hole of about 0.093" (3/32") diameter to the mounting flange- distance in from the edge isn't critical, I just kinda centered it enough on the flange that it wouldn't interfere with sealing to the housing.

Recommend that you install with the bleed hole oriented at 12 o'clock; that way it will pass the air through high enough to assure that the thermostat is reading water instead of steam.

One bleed hole is plenty, and I would recommend against going any larger than 0.100" (2.5mm) diameter.

Ref: http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tecthermosuz.html


Ed

------------------

Hey thanks for the info on the thermostat.
I got the head off today. Everything looks good. I just need to make an adapter for my spring compressor, change the springs, and start bolting it back together. Hopefully I'll be done around the weekend.

Cool, sounds like you're making progress.

How many miles are on the engine? ...since you'll have the springs outta the way this might be a good time to snap in a fresh set of valve seals.



------------------

I've got about 11,000 miles on the engine. I installed the piston kit and studs last spring so they probably have 1500 miles on them. Valve seals are a good idea. I'm not sure if I'm going to replace them though. I'll probably pull the head and get it ported over the winter. I'd send it out now, but I want to ride. I think the cams will help me alot on top.

One question for ya. 3 of my buckets had a small circular wear pattern on them. I can't feel any ridges on the buckets and the cams or anything else doesn't seem worn. I'm not sure if this is normal or not, and should I get a couple of new buckets? Maybe a new set?
Thanks
Ed


------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Orient Express springs, Web cams

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
One question for ya. 3 of my buckets had a small circular wear pattern on them. I can't feel any ridges on the buckets and the cams or anything else doesn't seem worn. I'm not sure if this is normal or not, and should I get a couple of new buckets? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If there's no scuffing or metal built up on the buckets I don't think you need to worry about it- but you might want to stack the deck a little in your favor for the break-in...

The cams came with a little tube of Torco assembly lube... I used it, but I also coated every lobe with a thin rubbed-in layer of molydisulphide assembly paste... the stuff I use is Dow Corning G-n Metal Assembly Paste (comes in tubes, you can get it from places that sell bearings and probably other industrial-supply houses). This is high-solids extreme-pressure lubricant, and will positively protect the lobes for those first few seconds.

Go lightly with this stuff- it probably isn't the best thing to run through a wet clutch- and be sure to bring the revs up to 2000 or so immediately on fire-up... and keep them there for at least the first ten to fifteen minutes. It's the best high-pressure metal-to-metal lube I've used.

Good luck gettin 'er fired up... mine are in by the timing tag, seems to run pretty well... finally got the pilot jets I've been needing in today, I should be good to go from here forward... too bad we're so far apart, it would be fun to stack them up side-by-side and see how they run... http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

Ed


------------------

yeah, that would be pretty cool if we were closer. I'd like to see how another built waterpumper would stack up. Not too many of those around here. Most people have the air cooled gsxr's or are switching to Busa's.

That high pressure additive sounds like it would do the trick. My friend at the dealership where I used to work looked at the buckets and said they would work. But just to be on the safe side I ordered a new one. 40 bucks for that thing. I'm glad I didn't need a set!

I started to install the springs, but my valve job is looking a little on the worn side so I might be sending the head off for some work. Lazer level 3 and a radius valve job sounds good. I just hope I don't have to wait all summer for it. I heard Carolina Cycle does some good head work. Have you heard anything good or bad?

Later
Ed

Sheeeeit, up to three pages... can we flog a thread, or what?

http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

------------------

I've had outstanding success with Carolina Cycles and would recommend them without hesitation... they've bored/honed two blocks for me (the Bandit and the 1100) and did the flycut/3-angle headwork on the Bandit. The workmanship is excellent (Serdi valve equipment), prices good. Told ya they had the WebCam grind for the 1100 in stock and on my doorstep within 24 hours... good folks.

If you decide to give them a try ask for James (he's off on Tuesday and Thursday BTW), tell him Ed Henderson says hello... probably won't save you a dime but the service will be top-shelf. It can be a little tough to get through on the phones but it's worth the wait.

Lazer Mike also has a good reputation, several of my Bandit bretheren have used him in the recent past... no idea of his turnaround time, at this point everybody who is any good is probably fairly well booked up.

Ed

------------------

Yeah we can definitly flog a thread! Maybe we should start a new one.

I talked to Lazer mike yesterday. He said he wasn't terribly busy. 750 for a level 3 porting and valve job. Level 3 is the biggest you can go with stock valves. He is also going to mill .010-.015 off my head and sink the intake guides a little. I think I'm going to get him to bench shim the head too.
I'm getting kinda lazy lately.

He did have some interesting stuff to say about valvesprings. First off he doesn't like the orient springs. He had a few break last year. He said I could run the stock springs as long as I was using the stock valves with the web .377 cams. He said the springs will be close to coil bind and doesn't recommend running cams any bigger than that. I'm kinda nervous about running the cams with the stock springs. I think I'll send the orient springs back to be on the safe side, and get the kibblewhite springs you have. I'm on Carolina Cycle's web site getting a catalog right now.

That's cool news... what does Mike charge for the 'Level 3' headwork? ...what's the leadtime?

I'd heard some rumblings about problems with APE springs but hadn't heard of any issues with Orient Express. I'd be prepared to take his word about a set of *new* stock springs, although for the hundred bucks I feel somewhat safer with the Kibblewhites... and since your stockers have some miles on them it's probably a cheap insurance policy to replace them.

"Start a new" thread? Blasphemy! ...just think, by the time you get your head back and installed we could have *this* one up to five pages http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif


------------------

Well i like youre forum.
Just wish i was in the US so i could get all the good parts.
Tried to buy a single seat cowel? of the nett.
Ended up costing me $40 and a lot of anxiety.
The info you guys pass out is eye opening.
Let us know the dyno figures when you get them?

------------------

Hello, Rowerat-

Nice to see you're still kicking, hadn't seen you on this board in quite a while.

The rear seat cowls look killer- I'd like to get one for my bike as well, but getting carried away with all the 1198 stuff has pretty well sucked the ol' wallet flat http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

I have this coming Wednesday off... if I get a few oddball things out of the way I may head up to the shop to put a couple of pulls on the 1198... the Bandit needs it too, decisions, decisions!


------------------

Lazer level 3 porting with a radius valve job costs $750. Milling the head an extra $50 and sinking the guides an extra $50. Lazer says he is kinda busy with a lot of promised work but nothing is there yet. When I called him on Friday he was taking the day off and enjoying the sunny pennsylvania weather. No guarentees on turnaround time, but shouldn't be longer than 3 weeks.

Get that waterpumper on the dyno, the bandit can wait! Wait a minute bring em both!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Get that waterpumper on the dyno, the bandit can wait! Wait a minute bring em both!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol That's the exact reverse of what my Bandit friends are screaming...

"...screw the Gixxer, tell us how that new stepped header works on the B12!!"

http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

------------------

i have bben watching all along,
just dont have time to do anything because of work.
dying to see the dyno run

------------------

lol I'm pretty curious myself!

Weather looks iffy for tomorrow but if I get the chance to put a couple of pulls on the bike I'll be happy to share the data, good or bad... I still have a fair bit of refinement to do on the carburetion but it's coming around.



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have a look att this web site www.fly-design.com (http://www.fly-design.com)
they have a great rear end for our bus
want one baaaad.
i am still trying to get the dyna2000 not having much sucess.
seems its too radical for the limp dicks.

------------------

Rowerat: yeah, that's a nice-looking tail section... I like the taillight treatment.

Edster: no joy on the dyno pulls today; the weatherman cooperated but my dyno guy http://www.leesperformance.com/ is offline for a few days while he moves into his new shop.

Some good news, though: ...will the WebCams pull right up to the limiter? HELL YEAH they will!! http://forum.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

I know for certain that my B12 has 150+ on the back wheel, and the 1100w pulls noticeably harder from about 7500 up... I was really wooded today to get on the dyno, but 'twas not to be... will keep you posted, though!

Ed

------------------

Oh man! It feels like its over 150! I can't wait to get my head back. I'm excited now, I wished my 1100 had a power band like my old 750 and now it will. Thats cool lee is dynoing you bike. Hopefully they will hurry up and get there dyno hooked up so you can get in a couple of runs. Don't you just wish you had a dyno in your garage? I know my neighbors would love me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Don't you just wish you had a dyno in your garage?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol You betcha... and a flow bench sittin' right next to it!!



------------------

Hey they cut our thread short!

I talked to lazer yesterday and all is good. I should have my head back by the end of this week!

Have a good weekend!

Cool, I should have the head for the B12 shortly after... I'm wooded!



------------------

Did you get a slingshot head with bigger valves for the bandit? Are you going with stock cams? It would be fun to suprise some busas with your bandit!

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

For Sale:
Ape billet cam chain tensioner brand new!

Yep, one of the slingshot heads, with essentially Lazer's Level 4 port work (stepped up to 30mm intakes but no epoxy), full radius seats, combustion chamber opened up 2cc or so to get the CR down into the mid-12:1 range... I'm running both GSXR cams at the moment.

With a few mods to the B12 head (DIY port work, 3-angle valve job, flycut 0.025"), those cams, 38mm flatslides, and a V&H 4:1 system the bike has pulled just over 150 on the rear wheel... since then I have changed cam phasing and switched from the V&H to Dale Walker's stepped header http://www.holeshot.com/Bandit/b_header.html , no telling where it is now although it certainly hasn't gotten any slower ; )

Lazer Mike sez that installing the head should put 160+rwhp within reach; I'm looking forward to turning it loose.

------------------


[This message has been edited by gsxr1198 (edited 05-29-2001).]

Edster, why are you selling off the camchain tensioner? ...been thinking of adding one.

Ed




------------------

Are you going to put bigger valves in the exhaust side too?

I'm selling the tensioner because I don't want to mess around adjusting the camchain tension. I think the stock tensioner is fine it doesn't have the spring thing on the end like the older aircooled gsxr's. Plus it doesn't clear my 41mm keihins.

I'm also selling a muzzys aluminum fan for this bike. I melted my stock one and replaced it with the muzzy's fan. Now I have a jethot coated pipe to keep everything cool.


------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

For Sale:
Ape billet cam chain tensioner brand new!
Muzzys aluminum radiator fan

No, per Mike's recommendation I'm going to stay with the stock exhaust valve diameter. I'm sending the exchange head off to him today; he's given me a week-to-ten-day turnaround, and I know he's got my check in hand already so hopefully I'll have the B12 back on the road in a couple of weeks... I kinda hate having it offline, it's a lot of fun to ride.

Understood about the tensioner- especially since it doesn't clear the carbs... was thinking about going to those same carburetors eventually too, so I guess I'll have to pass.

My header is aluminum-ceramic coated (Airborn Coatings) but I was still thinking of wrapping the primaries to reduce the heat load on the radiator and water jacket... had seen the Muzzy's fan but hadn't thought about running one... did you notice a useful increase in the amount of air being moved?

My bike will start to get fairly hot in traffic even if I turn the fan on pretty early (I have a switch to override the sending unit) and it might be a worthwhile part to take off your hands.... if you give me a little feedback on that we can take the rest of the conversation off-list, I am set up with both PayPal and Tradenable so getting payment to you is a breeze.

Ed

------------------

I like the fan, but it vibrates when you rev the bike up. I also haven't finished trimming it so it hits my exhaust at anything over 100mph and sounds like valves dropping. I'm not sure if it moves anymore air than the stocker. Bcjohn has one on his bike too. you might want to ask him his opinion.

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

For Sale:
Ape billet cam chain tensioner brand new!
Muzzys aluminum radiator fan

lol "...vibrates"? "...dropping valves"?

You're gonna have to brush up on those sellin' skills a little, my friend http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif




------------------

Yeah, you can tell I'm not a salesman. I like the fan all it needs is a little more trimming. In the instructions for the fan they say to trim the edges of the fan so It doesn't hit the exhaust. I'm sure it doesn't hit with the stock pipe but my primaries are bigger than stock. Also I didn't put the little felt piece between the fan and the motor thats probably why it vibrates when I rev the bike in neutral.

Okay, lemme get this straight... you have one on your bike *and* one to sell, or you're selling the one off your bike? Either way, I'm interested; went over to the Muzzy site and had a look. I think I'll still shell out the bucks and pick up some header wrap... it'll be Summer soon, and I want to be able to commute on it without worrying it'll lift the head gasket.

Hey, in case you didn't see it I posted a couple of pics of my crap over on one of the other threads:

http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/005458.html

...lemme know whatcha think, okay? Be sure to scroll down to the second pic ; )

Ed


------------------


[This message has been edited by gsxr1198 (edited 05-31-2001).]

Those are some nice toys!!!
Can I test ride them http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

I'm selling the muzzys fan because I have a good condition stocker to put on. I think with the ceramic coated pipe it shouldn't melt.

Here's a pix of my junk.

http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/edzbike.jpg


------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

For Sale:
Ape billet cam chain tensioner brand new!
Muzzys aluminum radiator fan

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Those are some nice toys!!!
Can I test ride them http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol I have no doubt you could deal with toys #1 and #2... toy #3 has a great chassis but handles a little unpredictably at times, not sure I'd be doing you a favor by letting you take that one for a ride http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm selling the muzzys fan because I have a good condition stocker to put on. I think with the ceramic coated pipe it shouldn't melt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whattaya want for it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Here's a pix of my junk.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice lookin' machine... was thinking about getting rid of the "BNG" paint job on the 1100 and going all black, then doing a graphic treatment like the upper set on this page:

http://www.tapeworks.com/Pages/3160.html

lemme know about the fan-
Ed

------------------

The Muzzy fan does work great. Mine needed to be clipped a bit (using the supplied platen) to clearance the wrap on my stainless headers. I've got the little insulating pad in.

Now as to the noise left http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif - I have this great resonant frequency from the metal aluminum fan that it goes through at low rpm, then gone. Caught me off guard for a sec when I first fired it up, but it isn't irritating. Just sounds like knocking pistons now instead of dropping valves.. J/K!!!! http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif Excellent flow of air, sure beat the hell out of my nuked stocker, not to mention you can't buy just an OEM blade (yeah, gotta get the entire package!).

Re wrapping and the jet coat - just make sure its dry before you shut off. IE, if caught in the rain, run the beast (great steam bath effect) for a bit. That's is the hearsay I've got on the subject.

------------------

i was originaly going for the tapeworks grafix but a tape guy down the road laughed at the quality when he saw it.
so we are going to try the red black gsxr1000 colour scheme.
that is if i can stop riding it long enough to do some work on it

------------------

I don't have the little felt piece that came with the fan. It looked a little hoakey so I didn't even bother with it. The fan is still in excellent conditon, and I think I still have the instructions. I'll give it to you for $15 shipped to your door by Ups ground.

That's a deal. I'll drop you a line off-list.

------------------

Any word from Lazer about the bandit head?
I'm supposed to get my head by the end of the week at the latest. I talked to Lazer on Friday and he said the head was done all that was left to do was bench shim it.

Do you guys know anything about the radius valve job vs. a 3 angle? I wonder how much of a performance gain there is and if the life of the valve job is shortened any.

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

For Sale:
Ape billet cam chain tensioner brand new!

Hey what size bore is in your 1198? I heard of 1192 and 1206 but never 1198. What brand piston kit is it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Hey what size bore is in your 1198? I heard of 1192 and 1206 but never 1198. What brand piston kit is it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

These are 12:1 JE's... pistons are 79.5mm diameter; I've seen it listed as both 1195 and 1198, liked the 8 better than the 5 http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Any word from Lazer about the bandit head?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, not yet. I know from the UPS tracking info that he got my exchange head on Friday, and also know that he received the check for the new head earlier in the week.

It wouldn't surprise me if he waits for the check to clear before he lets anything out the door... I'm a nice guy and have decent references but money talks http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

If another week passes with no word I'll contact him for an update. He told me it'd take a week to ten days to turn around the valve and combustion-chamber work; I'd rather have him take his time and do it right than push him.

Ed

------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Do you guys know anything about the radius valve job vs. a 3 angle? I wonder how much of a performance gain there is and if the life of the valve job is shortened any.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spoke with Dale Walker a couple of times about full-radius valve jobs; he used to offer it on his "street" porting job for the B12 head. According to him they flow slightly better at low lift than a standard 3-angle but it sounds as though the gains are more for bragging purposes than big results on a street mill.

Dale sez the full-radius seats live pretty well if done right; sounded to me as though the exhaust seat widths are a little narrow but his headwork is well regarded (I doubt that he does any of it himself - Lazer Mike claims to have done Dale's project B12 head, and I'm in no position to dispute his assertion).

You must be going nuts waiting for that head to get there!! ...I'm starting to get antsy, for sure.



------------------

Yeah, I can't wait much longer! Actually I was prepared to wait a month or more. I would rather he takes his time and does a good job too. He says my head is finished just needs valve clearences set. That should take all of a couple of hours. Now where is that UPS guy!

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Soon to be installed:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

For Sale:
Ape billet cam chain tensioner brand new!

...yeah, be sure to get the tracking number!

...although if you're like me it'll *kill* ya to track packages from work and see "Delivered - Released by Driver" on the website- knowing it's just sittin' there on your porch all afternoon will push the limits of your endurance http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

------------------

No Way! I have it going right to my shop.
Can't leave that baby on the porch.

Yup, I got your check today and allready cashed it. How do you like the fan? If I find the instructions I'll fax them to you.

Yes, I do the same- even though there's practically no risk of anyone screwing with it at the house.

BTW one of the guys just brought in the box with the fan in it.. it arrived 100% okay.

Thanks for the fast response... did you receive the envelope from me yet?

Ed

------------------

lol Holy shit, page four! http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

------------------

Fan looks good. Once I get the B12 back into one piece I plan to open the 1100 back up for a cam-timing change... since I'll have the plastic pulled off I'll probably go ahead and install the fan as well.

If you find the installation sheet that would be great... if you could fax it to me at the office (704.921.9115) that would be appreciated... thank you!

Didja get that damn cylinder head yet???


------------------

Just to let you guys know, I've noticed that the 'resonant' brinnnnggg of the aluminum fan blades is really starting to quiet down. Go figure http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif



------------------

G'day guys,

Does anyone have the installation specs for stage 2 Yoshi cams for 1100W? It seems that Yoshimura are not interested in responding to my emails.

I can confirm that the APE springs have a tendancy to break because some of them have not been shot peened. I am using Kibblewhites without a problem.

Regards,
Stephen. Australia

------------------

G'day Stephen

I had the same experience here in the States; spoke to Yosh-USA before buying the WebCam grinds... they have only fairly recently discontinued the cams for the 1100w but were completely uninterested in checking to see if any remained in stock anywhere for me.

Good luck finding the info... will keep an eye out for you. If you hear anything I'd appreciate hearing what the lobe specs are; that's the kind of stuff I just kinda buy on impulse when I find it used at a decent price.

Glad to hear the Kibblewhite springs have worked out for you... no problems for me either so far.

rgds
Ed

------------------

Can't resist the opportunity to slam Yosh USA in agreement with the posted experiences. They have the lip-lock on North America. If I could afford the huge $$$ hit, I would have bought a real Yosh full system, ie, from Japan through the UK Yosh distributors, Phoenix. They handle the US junk as well as the real McCoy, but boy you'd be paying a premium!

Yosh just does not care. If the Japanese products were brought over here and distributed outside of Yosh USA, they wouldn't last a minute.

End of rant!!!

------------------

I got these cams at the right price. They had a chewed lobe (from a broken APE spring actually)which I have had repaired. Worked out a lot cheaper than having the stockers built-up and reprofiled.
Have set them up at 108ex102in to see how they go in my 1147.

Steve

------------------

gsxr1198,
Have you heard anything from Lazer Mike?
I'm about ready to go to Pottstown and put a boot up sombody's......
He's 3 weeks late from when he originally said my head would ship http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/mad.gif

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, 1147 12:1 piston kit, Dyna 2000, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, 750 oil pan and oil cooler, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Pingle guzzler, Braided lines, Ape head studs

Never to be installed because Lazer is a slow a** old Man:
Lazer Level 3 head, Web Cams

He told me earlier this week that the head would ship no later than 6/14 (yesterday)... haven't called him to find out if that's the case.

Cripes, yours oughta be there PFQ... what's the holdup?

Ed

------------------

Well, I finally got my head back from Lazer.
It looks great! I've got it halfway back on. I'll probably have it finished by the weekend. I'll post my results and a dyno sheet as soon as I can get on the Harley guy's dyno.

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, Pingle guzzler, Lazer Level 3 Head, Web Cams, Wiseco 1147 12:1 piston kit, Ape head studs, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, Dyna 2000, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Braided lines, 750 oil pan and oil cooler

Excellent- congrats!

Hopefully Mike will be up and hobbling around on that broken leg soon... he swears my cylinder head was up on the bench when he got hurt, and that it's almost ready for prime time... I'm itchin' to get it back, the 1100 is fun to ride but there's nothing quite like twisting the grip back on the B12.

Ed

------------------

Dammit Edster, you've had four days... where's the ride report on that new cylinder head? http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

------------------

The ride report is good!
I'll have it running today. I had to make a billet adaptor to mount my degree wheel, and to turn the engine over w/o having to remove my dyna ignition plate. I got the intake cam degreed in before I gave up yesterday, so all I have to do is degree the exhaust and tighten a few things. It should be breathing fire sometime today http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

Did the ceramic coating on your pipe make any hp difference? I had my pipe coated while the head was out.

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, Pingle guzzler, Lazer Level 3 Head, Web Cams, Wiseco 1147 12:1 piston kit, Ape head studs, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, Dyna 2000, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Braided lines, 750 oil pan and oil cooler

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Did the ceramic coating on your pipe make any hp difference? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't ever pull the 1100 before the teardown (and the coating was done while it was apart)... the way the #3 rod was knocking it seemed imprudent to spend any amount of time at revs/under load.

I ordered some heat wrap today; I'm going to insulate the primaries from the cylinder head down to just below the radiators. I came off the highway after a few hard runs through the gears and immediately got hung up in some slow traffic; the temp gauge took off like a bullet, I need to get some of that thermal load off the water jacket and the coolers.

Here's the wrap I picked up: http://store.yahoo.com/azmotorsports/exinwrap.html ... I got the 1" width. While I was at it I also ordered an extended right-angle screwdriver for the mix screws http://store.yahoo.com/azmotorsports/jdfbj.html ... part number 35-9653 looked like it might be useful.

Glad to hear you're "almost there" with the reassembly! I think it's gonna knock your socks off. I was out burning a little gas through mine last night; it's neat to get it up on the Interstate and just ease lightly into the throttle... as the revs climb up to and cross over 7k you can plainly feel the cam grind waking up... big grin factor.

Too bad bcjohn can't enjoy the fun too http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif but I suppose someone has to be responsible/respectable- may as well be him http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

------------------


[This message has been edited by gsxr1198 (edited 06-21-2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxr1198:
I ordered some heat wrap today; I'm going to insulate the primaries from the cylinder head down to just below the radiators. I came off the highway after a few hard runs through the gears and immediately got hung up in some slow traffic; the temp gauge took off like a bullet, I need to get some of that thermal load off the water jacket and the coolers.

Glad to hear you're "almost there" with the reassembly! I think it's gonna knock your socks off. I was out burning a little gas through mine last night; it's neat to get it up on the Interstate and just ease lightly into the throttle... as the revs climb up to and cross over 7k you can plainly feel the cam grind waking up... big grin factor.

Too bad bcjohn can't enjoy the fun too http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif but I suppose someone has to be responsible/respectable- may as well be him http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooooooooh!!! http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif LOL

You'll be amazed at the diff the wrap makes. Having been there, I wouldn't go without it again. Mine is just down to the 4-2 spot so that it doesn't show past the fairing. By the way, multiple coats of header paint on the wrap. Used 1 1/2 LARGE spray tins. Really extends the life of the wrap, plus it tends not to pick up as much oil spill, water yadda yadda.

Well, you guys have sold me, it looks like the winter of 2002 will include a trip to Megacycle for my cams in order to get a decent drop-in profile.

I must admit, the results from that black box switch has really got me hot-to-trot to put some more performance in the beast (yeah, like I NEED it, well, actually..... http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif ).



------------------

Well shit, Edster... now that he's taken the bait on the cams we need to start working on bcjohn to step up to a big bore kit http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif



------------------

Lol!!

Big Bore kit good!

Well it's alive. It fired right up like it was just running yesterday. Lazer mike's head work is outstanding! I checked the valve clearences and they were almost perfect. a few tight ones but no big deal. I got the cams degreed in at 110/110 just like mike said. It sounds great. I haven't had a chance to ride it yet. All I have to do is tune the carbs a little and put the fairings on. I'll dyno it after I get a few miles on it http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

------------------
95 GSXR1100W
41 Keihin flatslides with K&N's, Pingle guzzler, Lazer Level 3 Head, Web Cams, Wiseco 1147 12:1 piston kit, Ape head studs, Yosh Stainless Race only RS-3, Dyna 2000, Orient Express 4 spring clutch conversion, Back cut trans, Factory Pro shift kit, Braided lines, 750 oil pan and oil cooler

Cool, thanks for the update!

Curious to see how 110i/110e runs; that's gonna be quite a bit of top-end bias... I was thinking of going the other way to something like 102i/105e (WebCam recommends what- 105i/106e? I'm set to their specs) to see if I can skew the powerband more into the midrange.

If you want some interesting info to read on that topic browse a couple of these threads at dragbike.com:

http://forums.dragbike.com/discus/messages/9/4789.html?980923498

http://forums.dragbike.com/discus/messages/591/5487.html?

Read the stuff by William Carpenter; he puts an interesting perspective on opening/closing numbers which is thought-provoking. You might recognize one of the names on the second page http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif There are a couple of other pages with similar info if you dig around in the forums archive.



------------------

can any of you guys suggest some literature for me to read to learn more about all this stuff? im just recently into bikes but i love anything mechanical and especially modding up engines. i have no experience with bike engines though, and i would be afraid to do anything to my 01' 600 without tons of reading up. i would like in the winter to rip her apart and put new cams and pistons in, to turn her into a race bike....but ill have to feel pretty damn confindent to do that. thanks.

It's hard to think of just one all-encompassing reference work; the good news is that if you've already got some experience with engine building it will serve you well with bikes.

I pretty much grew up hotrodding pushrod American V8's, so while I had a fair idea about methods for increasing efficiency and output there was a lot to learn to be able to apply it to bikes... it's fairly rare to find these V8's with one carburetor throat per cylinder, for example, and I had never had to deal with independently phasing the intake and exhaust cams on a DOHC engine.

Fire up your favorite search engine and start dredging the web; hitting sites like Amazon.com or the other major booksellers might also get you moving. Buy a manual for your bike... the mechanical assembly/disassembly isn't so hard but you will need to know the proper sequences and torque values.

lol Oh yeah don't forget: the rule that "There's no replacement for displacement" works just as well in this arena as it does in the four-wheeled world... images/icons/wink.gif

Ed

Edster

Speak to me man

...have you ridden it?

Well it's runnin' good. For the first few miles she ran kinda rough. Now I have about 75 miles on it, and it runs great. I still have to tune it. I fattened the jetting up in the midrange for the stock cams and now its too rich. After I swap some needles and jets I'll have a better idea of how the cam timing is working out. I might go down to 108/108. After I get a few more miles on it I'm going to the dyno. The harley shop across the parking lot has a dynojet, and I get free dyno time images/icons/grin.gif

That thermostat mod works great. I rode in some cooler weather and my bike stays warmed up. Before the thermostat anything cooler than 65 and my bike would sit on cold.

Cool, glad to hear you got it lit up... yeah, that simple t'stat mod really helps keep the temperature stabilized, a definite help in getting a decent tuneup locked down.

Gonna back the timing down, eh? 110/110 oughta have good zing, but... after doing a couple of hundred miles in the NC mountains this weekend I've definitely decided to re-phase for more grunt; there's no advantage in being able to pull to 11 grand when you're mostly in second gear at 4k - 7k.

I'm pretty happy with the fuel curve (finally) everywhere except at the very bottom; pulling out of the slow curves the engine response was kinda like pull-stutter-catch-pull which made it hard to be smooth... just another tweak or two and it'll be good to go.

Anyway glad you got 'er up and running... you didn't say much, how do you like the power?

Ed

I haven't really beat on her much yet. The powerband is like my old 750. My tach isn't working so its hard to tell where the engine is at. Ive got a definite dip in power probably around 7 grand then it takes off. It also sounds like it loads up at idle. It's probably my jetting. I put in richer needles and a 175 main jet last year. I'm going to put the carbs back to their original jetting and start from scratch. Hopefully I'll have time to do that tonight.
Ed

Now that you've stepped up in airflow it's not surprising that it's pulling too much fuel in; good luck getting the mixture trimmed. I really just need to take out a little here and a little there, and I should be done.

...hey, we oughta be hittin' "Page 5" here pretty soon images/icons/wink.gif

Well, I changed the jets back to the original keihin jets. I had 185 mains in there images/icons/smile.gif I thought I had 175's, but now back to 160's. Its closer now, but I think I have to raise the needle a clip and go a step or too up on the main jets. My idle is also a bit rich. My mixture screws are at 1 turn, so I think I need to open the pilot air screw up a bit. I still have a dip in power around 6-7k. I wonder if its the 110/110 cam timing? After I make a dyno pull I think I'm going to try 108/108 to see if that helps.

I wonder how much hp if any the keihins are responsible for? I have a set of 38mm cv's that I would like to try out, but I don't have a jet kit for them. How much did you guys pay for your 40mm cv's? My engine looks bone stock except for the keihins and their notorious rattling sounds images/icons/grin.gif It sure would be a sleeper with cv's. Do you guys run the airbox with your cv's or individual filters?
Ed

How's the B-12 head going? Have you heard anything from one leg...oops I mean lazer mike?

Yeah we oughta be hittin page five soon images/icons/grin.gif

Sounds like you're getting a handle on it. I still have a little refinement to do too; hopefully one or two more tweaks oughta do it.

I dunno what gain you're seeing from the Keihin's... when I went from 38mm CV's to RS38's on the B12 there did seem to be a distinct boost on top end. Once I get the head back from Lazer (e-mailed him last night, he says "one more week" images/icons/frown.gif ) I want to try some back-to-back dyno trials of the 38mm flatslides vs. some 40 CV's to see how equal/unequal they really are.

FWIW I paid $250 w/shipping included for the w/c 40CV's and $235 w/ for the a/c 40's... very happy with the condition of both sets. Perhaps one of our Canadian listmates can fix you up- I got these carbs from a guy north of the border; he was great to work with, still have his e-mail address... let me know if you need it.

I have a Factory Pro kit in the w/c 40's, presently running foam Uni filters (but will probably switch to K&N's). With the frame side covers installed it's very hard to tell the airbox is missing although of course you can really hear the inlet noise down there.

Ed

Do you think the cams gave your bike anymore power or did it just shift the power you already had to a different spot? Before the head and cams my bike had wicked midrange pull and it tapered off quickley. Now I seems a little lazier in the midrange but pulls harder and harder on top. I'm not sure If it has more power or not. I guess a dyno run is in order. Too bad my friend's bike blew up, I'd have something to compair with.
Good luck with the rest of your tuning.

Definitely more power; the powerband seems considerably broader than with the stock cams.

Edster I'd really suggest you swing those cams around to the WebCam timing recommendation; that 110/110 may be waking up so far up in the rev range that you can't effectively use the power.

Ed

Thanks for the pages and pages and pages of modification data. It took a while to print but I hope it comes in handy for me. Kind of like a recipe book...just add power to taste.
Serves 1...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxr1198:
Well shit, Edster... now that he's taken the bait on the cams we need to start working on bcjohn to step up to a big bore kit http://www.gixxer.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, I've had the box of 1147 JE's sitting at the foot of my bed for damned near a year now! Sold some stuff and thought I'd better start the collection in order to keep the eventual $$$ hit more gradual (hohoho). So please try to hook me on something different.

images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

lol Wel-l-l-l if you're really get the most out of that big-bore kit yer gonna need some pro headwork... mebbe Edster and I can introduce you to our new friend, Lazer Mike....


images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

One thing I've learned is an engine is a package, and When you do mods you should do 'em all at one time. If your gonna rip you bike apart and put in the j&e piston kit you might as well do the head and get some cams too.

I made a baseline dyno run at the Harley guys on friday. 110/110 cam timing, Keihin carbs with box stock jetting, 35deg ingition advance. 150rwhp and 75rwtq images/icons/smile.gif

Now where do I start with the tuning? The bike sounded great and the power peak was a little before 11,500. I picked up 10hp and lost 5ftlb of tq.

I wonder what ignition timing i should run? I'm thinking of backing it down to 32.

I'm also wondering what 105/106 would do? I want to do a compression check with the cams as they are now and swing them to 105/106 and check the pressure again.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsxr1198:
lol Wel-l-l-l if you're really get the most out of that big-bore kit yer gonna need some pro headwork... mebbe Edster and I can introduce you to our new friend, Lazer Mike....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ahhhhh, one step ahead of you. A fellow up here by the name of Lance Hayward will be doing the work. Gotcha! hehehehe

images/icons/blush.gif images/icons/blush.gif images/icons/blush.gif images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

Hey what sparkplugs are you guys running?
I have some cr9ek's or cr10ek's in right now. They have the dual electrodes. I wonder if the stock plugs would work better.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
150rwhp and 75rwtq <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Now where do I start with the tuning? The bike sounded great and the power peak was a little before 11,500. I picked up 10hp and lost 5ftlb of tq.

I'm also wondering what 105/106 would do? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gotta expect that advanced intake timing would bring the power in sooner, Edster... it would be great if you can get that power peak down fifteen hundred revs or so where you can get to it a little easier (and sooner). Where was peak torque?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I want to do a compression check with the cams as they are now and swing them to 105/106 and check the pressure again. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Last notes I see in the logbook show the cylinders pumping 240psi ±5psi with the engine at current displacement and the stock cams at 103i/105e... I thought I had run a compression test since doing the cams but I'm either suffering from CRS images/icons/wink.gif or just didn't log the results.

re: plugs... I'm running CR9E's; they're looking a bit cold but I'm still working on getting the carburetion locked down.

Keep postin', guys!... Page Five can't be far away now images/icons/grin.gif

Ed

i can get a set of 1986 gsxr1100 cams for free
Q.do they go in the water pumper head.
Q.any problems with regrinds.
Q.recomend regrind?
dyno run soon.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rowerat:
i can get a set of 1986 gsxr1100 cams for free
Q.do they go in the water pumper head.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, Rowerat- those cams aren't gonna work... they will only fit the earlier oil-cooled engines.


.

Page 5!!!!

Running cr9ek no problems. Found cr10's too cold.

d-oh

keeping the thread

yo Edster...

According to our friend Lazer Mike the B12 head will be done and shipped this week; sez I'll have it "for sure" next week.

Will let ya know! How's that 1100 of yours running these days? I've finally got my tuneup at about 98%, another tweak or two ought to nail it.

Ed

That's cool, you should have your head soon. Bummer mike broke his leg, you should've had that back a month ago.

My friend billy is selling a lazer level 5 head that has about 200mi on. 30mm intake and 26mm exhaust. It's a 750 slingshot casting too. He also has a set of cams to go with it. I'm not sure what he wants but I know it's <$1500 for the whole setup. Here are a few pix.

http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/billshead.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/billshead5.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/billshead7.jpg

These are before we installed it. With this head and the cams Lazer mike recommended on it's first dyno pull it made 155rwhp running into the rev limiter.

My bike is doing good. I've pulled a little timing out of it, but haven't made anymore dyno runs images/icons/frown.gif

Cool, thanks for the pics.

If the weather holds I'll be taking the 1100 to Rockingham this weekend for the Schnitz Summer race; seems to be running pretty well, I'll let you know how it does.

I usually run Street ET, so I'll have quarter-mile results to post... not gonna try to flog it off the line but I'm very curious to see if it runs higher trap speeds than the B12 did (136+ mph) at a known 150rwhp.

Ed

.

Hey Edster- got the UPS tracking number right here in my quivering hand; the head is FINALLY on the way from our ol' pal Lazer Mike... should be here Monday.

lol Yeah, I did check the UPS online tracking site to make sure he shipped it images/icons/grin.gif

Better late than never, I suppose... wil let you know how it looks.

Ed

Cool, You should have your bike together before you know it images/icons/smile.gif

Let me know how it turns out.

Hope so! ...it's been way too long to be Bandit-less images/icons/grin.gif

I've got this week off but am taking off for the NC/TN/GA mountains on Thursday early-early; meeting up with a bunch of other Banditophiles but will probably take the 1100... if the head doesn't get here until Monday PM I may not have time to really focus on putting it back together right before I head out.

Just checked the tracking number at ups.com; it's here in Charlotte, should be out for delivery on Monday for sure.

Ed

Just curious Ed(s), have you guys heard/seen any shit on the new GSX1400?? A bit of a tank, but the motor would seem to be interesting. Stock bhp is low, not unlike the B12, but the torque is 92-95 at the rear wheel. Thing has efi with small throttle bodies etc.. Don't know if its coming to North America or not....definite for the UK.

Only thing that pisses me off about it (jealous, more like it) is that it has a 6 speed tranny designed to take the shit our bikes can feed it. FUCK!!! You could probably retro it into an oiler, since the motor is based on an oiler, but most likely not mine. I guess I shouldn't get too put out until I see the internal ratios though.

Other than that, its a bit of a whale, twin shocker etc. Still don't see where it would replace the B12, but hey, whadduIknow!

Let me know if you want any of this whale's specs images/icons/smile.gif

gsxr1198, did you get anything from lazer yet?

Bcjohn, I haven't seen the 1400 yet. Is it based on an aircooled 1100 like the b-12? That six speed would be f*ckin awesome. I've wanted one in my bike for a while now. I've seen it done before with 750 parts but I don't know how it would hold up or what parts are needed. That would be a great winter project.

Hi Edster, IMHO, the bike is a real tank. I'd still prefer the B12 plus some suspension work. Nonetheless, that 6 speed is sure tempting. Apparently, the water cooler factory racing 6 speed (for the 1174 that is) is/was not only brutally expensive, but quite fragile. I was offered a used one for US$2500 sight unseen, so that gives you an idea. Good luck with parts/part numbers, sourcing stuff. Shit. Unfortunately, the 1100 would demolish the 750's cluster.

I'd _guess_ that the 6 speed would be a shoe in for the B12, but for the 1100...?????

PS, the 1400 doesn't have liners, its out to the max with a coated matrix or some such shit (PB is in the bedroom and I'm lazy!). The 1400 is one of two dual-shocked beasts set up for the home market and some distribution around the world. The other one looks like the melding of a B12 with an '86 GSXR1100, complete with flat sided fairing panels, dual shocks, god knows what...think it was an 1100.

By the way Ed, forgot if I asked..did you get the $$$$$??? PS: lazy boy too busy riding to install the tensioner. Look forward to it once the season starts to wind down. That and the mods to my breather box. Picked up a K&N crank breather with a 1" i.d. steel tube; have some ideas for a labyrinth baffle in the breather box, plus increasing the -8 hose up to -12 fittings prior to the box to slow the velocity and 'spume' images/icons/smile.gif. That plus a recovery mode, since the quantity from the filler plug (ie clutch output) is fairly high.

Geez these bikes are fun!

Let's see, what else...oh yeah, have about 300km on my new Michelin Pilot Sports. Like them a lot better than the Mez1r front/mez1 rear that I had before. Also, per my 'eyes', the 190 pilot rear _seems_ to take advantage of the 6" rim, since it looks more like a 180/55 profile. Man, they sure don't weigh much. I'll keep posted on how I like them. Turn in quite a bit faster than the Metzelers, all things being equal.

Can we get this thread out to Page 7 images/icons/grin.gif

i have been lurking in this topic for awhile.
don't really have enough technical knowledge to add any thing productive, but i am learning gobs just by reading. i am planning a 907 kit on my 93 750, so quite a bit of this topic has been rather helpful. i have searched this site for info on the 907 and have found a little, but not as much as i had hoped to find. anyone with experience on that topic, please raise your hand...anything helps, as i haven't attempted anything on this scale before now.
by the way john, i too switched to michelin pilot sports. stock was 170, so i went with 180(see a theme here? bigger is ALWAYS better images/icons/shocked.gif ) i kinda like how the steering changed. slowed down turn in a hair, but once it goes, it just falls on its side. probably is because of the profile difference from my worn flat as a board d202's (too much commuting). anyway, did i help reach page 7 yet?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hotrod:
i have been lurking in this topic for awhile.
don't really have enough technical knowledge to add any thing productive, but i am learning gobs just by reading. i am planning a 907 kit on my 93 750, so quite a bit of this topic has been rather helpful. i have searched this site for info on the 907 and have found a little, but not as much as i had hoped to find. anyone with experience on that topic, please raise your hand...anything helps, as i haven't attempted anything on this scale before now.
by the way john, i too switched to michelin pilot sports. stock was 170, so i went with 180(see a theme here? bigger is ALWAYS better images/icons/shocked.gif ) i kinda like how the steering changed. slowed down turn in a hair, but once it goes, it just falls on its side. probably is because of the profile difference from my worn flat as a board d202's (too much commuting). anyway, did i help reach page 7 yet?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, every little bit helps for the Page 7 drive. Then it will be page 10 or something.

My personal opinion on the 907 project is nyet if you haven't done this shit before. Unless I'm more dim than usual, 907 requires new liners, which unless done perfectly can do interesting things like dance in elliptical little motions etc.. That said, guys like gsxr1198 and Edster could no doubt recommend a good place NOT to get a bad job...hmmm. Think I'm going into a circular argument here! However, it does increase the $$$ quite a bit, so you might want to carefully price the job prior to committing.

Love wide tires on the street. Hell, good pose!! images/icons/grin.gif

oh, i sure as hell am not doing the liners myself! i had pretty much decided on ape, unless i am mistaken, you can send your cylinders to them and they take care of the nasty shit. all i would do is assemble the fun stuff...

I'd definitly go with the 907 kit, or just drop in an 1100 motor. It shouldn't cost you more than a grand for the pistons, liners, gaskets, and machine work. Ape is a good source, carolina cycle is also good, both do their machine work in house. Lazer porting can do cyliners and heads if you want to wait a few months, but Mike does great work.

Bcjohn, I got the $$$$ a while ago.
How come that tensioner is still sitting on the bench in the garage images/icons/smile.gif

Have you decieded on headwork or cams?
Do you still have the stock airbox on your bike?

Hiya guys... spent most of last week riding the NC/TN/GA mountains, had a ball.

Edster: yep, got the head from Lazer; looks good, and I'll start putting the bike back together this week.

bcjohn: yeah, the 1400 is somewhat interesting although it sounds like a real truck weight-wise... I think I'll keep my B12 (although I'd sure love to find a drop-in 6-speed for it as well as one for the 1100w).

Hotrod: Edster is steering you straight; your best bang-for-the-buck might be to build a 7/11 but if you do want to build yours up then APE and Carolina Cycles are good resources... I've used CC several times for engine work and they have done a first-rate job for me every time.

Ed

.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hotrod:
oh, i sure as hell am not doing the liners myself! ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, didn't mean to infer that images/icons/grin.gif . Just some horror stories where guys have taken the barrels to not so proficient shops who have essentially ruined the final product for them. Never thought of mentioning APE (doh!). Enjoy images/icons/smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Bcjohn, I got the $$$$ a while ago.
How come that tensioner is still sitting on the bench in the garage images/icons/smile.gif

Have you decieded on headwork or cams?
Do you still have the stock airbox on your bike?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Garage? What garage? I haven't had one of them for over 13 years, and do I miss it. Ahhh the days. Now I get lower back cramps from doing everything in a 5' wide alcove with a reinforced tarp for a roof. Grrrrr.

The tensioner? Just basically lazy. Also, the bearing in my alternator is dying, making racket that could easily get in the way of detecting a need for adjustment on the manual tensioner. Don't plan on pulling out the alternator until winter, so the tensioner might not see the light of day until next season.

Definitely going for headwork, ie Ferrea, springs, grind etc. Will have to talk to the guy about ports though, since don't want to affect low/midrange. Cams - yeah, I think I'm definitely going for a set of drop ins. Looks like a tossup between WebCam or Megacycle.

Air box is long gone. Have a pair of large BMC duals. The fit required a step down velo stack etc.. Dialed in on local (MAS) dyno. Just goes when cranked, anywhere in the rev range, which I think is great for no box. The airbox had to go, not for any performance idea on my part, but to free up the space for the -8 hoses and check valve for the remote filter. Also, the breather box inhabits part of the space now. Over winter, the R1 battery will also be moved down and forward to fill up the rest.

FYI, my price for the Ferrea valves is US$14.70 each. Does that sound competitive with what you folks pay??

Put some more miles on the Pilots yesterday. I'm in love with them images/icons/grin.gif

Bcjohn, what kind of breather box are you running? No garage, Bummer. I remember working on my first cars in the gravel driveway with no garage. Fun, Fun, Fun images/icons/smile.gif

gsxr1198, so whatcha think of Lazer mike's headwork?

Edster, the headwork looks pretty good.

Now that I've seen "pro" porting I don't feel too bad about my own efforts images/icons/wink.gif but I can see some areas of subtlety that I didn't incorporate into my cylinder head... a few details on the intake side, more so on the exhaust side. If I do another one I'm sure I can emulate several of the aspects of his work to a reasonable degree.

Ed

.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Edster:
Bcjohn, what kind of breather box are you running? No garage, Bummer. I remember working on my first cars in the gravel driveway with no garage. Fun, Fun, Fun images/icons/smile.gif

gsxr1198, so whatcha think of Lazer mike's headwork?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Edster, the box is fabbed out of good old aluminum and is about the size of a grapefruit on steroids (how's that for a mental shot images/icons/grin.gif). At any rate, the head breather hose comes out for a straight shot into the top of the box, and the modified oil filler cap (cap ends in -8, courtesy of Earl's UK) attached -8 hose goes up to a welded male boss on the side of the box. Mods for the box move the boss to the bottom left with the -12 b.s. to decrease the velo, plus the new breather (K&N) is muy massive and will be easier to build a labyrinth seal into compared to the smaller one currently installed. You could machine up your own, but if anybody is interested in the part number and contact (email) in the UK (Earl's USA isn't as up on the bike shit) just let me know. PS, the stock 'kit' came with a straight hose end attachment; I'll be modding to 60 degrees from both ends to ensure a decent meet in the 'middle'. That plus any oil buildup will drain back like I want it to.

Well this is totally O/T, but- it took almost 3 months instead of the quoted two weeks, but I've finally received and installed the slingshot head from Lazer Porting on my B12.

Got it running last night; finished up all the rest of the misc shit this evening but haven't ridden it yet.

The workmanship in the ports is definitely first class. The proof will be in what the dynamometer reports, I'll let you know how it pulls soon.

Now that I the B12 is back together I suppose I need to tear into the 1100w images/icons/grin.gif ... Edster, how's yours running these days? Bcjohn, didja ever get those bunny cams on order images/icons/wink.gif ~~?

Ed


.

My 1100 is running the same. Still needs tuning. I'm going to change my cam timing to 105/106 and try that out. I don't want to tune the carbs then change the cam timing and tune the carbs again. FWIW Lazer had said about 1 to 2 weeks for my head after he got it. It took 5 weeks for it to actually show up. I'm sure his leg incident was part of the cause for the delay for both of us.

Let us know when you have a dyno pull on that bitch!

images/icons/frown.gif

awf*ck

The 1100 swallowed a valve this afternoon while running along at about 9k in third; the resulting damage locked the crankshaft but fortunately there was no real drama involved in getting the bike off the Interstate.

I was pretty much out in the middle of Nowhere... fortunately had the cell phone. One of my friends graciously dropped what he was doing, hooked up his trailer and picked my sorry ass up; Rick, thank you very much for your kindness.

At this point I didn't have any idea what had actually locked the engine up, so we rolled the bike back into my garage and began the post-mortem. Removing the valve cover was all it took... no sign whatsoever of the cam chain, numerous chunks of debris visible in the cam valley, several valves obviously stuck open. Further teardown revealed that the debris was the remains of three shattered cam followers (this is a shim-under-bucket engine).

I won't know for sure until I pull the engine apart but it's certainly eaten at least 12 of the valves, and probably all four pistons. The cam chain is in several pieces in the bottom of the engine- we fished out three small sections of it with a magnet... hopefully it didn't maul the sprocket on the crank, and hopefully the head didn't take too much of a beating. One lobe on the intake cam is ruined, but repairable.

There's one broken valve spring (so far) and it was under the valve that pulled through the retainer... at this point I'm guessing that the spring broke... which let the valve drop... which let the piston swat it back up... which knocked the keepers loose... hard to say from there, likely that the intake cam jammed very shortly afterward and that pulled the cam chain apart.

As is so often the case the bike was running exceptionally well at the time of its' demise ; )

Anyway, that's how my Labor Day went- so far. Hope yours was better!

Ed


.

Fuck,fuck,fuck,fuck.....1198 Ed that really sucks. Sorry to hear about it.

Keep us posted on the post-mortem shit.

Again, FUCK!!!!!!! images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif images/icons/frown.gif

Thanks, John... it'll rise from the ashes again, I'm sure. Doesn't it just figure- I literally paid off the note on it last Tuesday and received the title in the mail on Thursday.

I'll put it back together the way it was- it was a nice combination, really was running great- but I have to figure out "Plan B" pn the valve springs... those only had 4500 miles on them, and very little time really at high revs.

It's not like I went cheap on springs last time- although in essence a $ 6.25 spring probably precipitated $1000 (if I'm lucky) - $2000 (if I'm unlucky) damage.

Ed

.

sorry to hear about that, ed. what kind of valve springs were you using?

These were packaged as "Kibblewhite", Jeff.. I'd heard some of the rumblings about possible bad heat lots of APE springs on dragbike.com and asked my supplier to recommend something else. This supplier (Carolina Cycles) has always treated me very well, so I certainly don't hold this mishap against them.

Been casting around a little today on the web chasing possible alternates; Schnitz sells some from PM which I've heard are good, and I've got an e-mail in to WebCam to see what their recommendation is.

Hey, it's only money, y'know ; )

Ed

Holy sh*t!!!

I never thought that engine would let go images/icons/frown.gif
The waterpumpers are usually pretty tough.

How's the B-12 doing?

I've got the old stock springs in my head and it's working good. Knock on wood. You might want to try those when you put it back together. Lazer says they will clear with the cams we're running. Did you have the intake guides knocked down, or ti retainers?

Hiya Edster... images/icons/grin.gif btw just call me "Lucky" from now on.

The damage to the 1100w is essentially only what was visible externally... ten
bent valves, broken cam chain, repairable damage to one cam lobe, a few broken
bits on top.

The pistons are virtually unmarked- the engine apparently stopped so quickly
when the camchain wrapped around the crank that the pistons only barely kissed
the valves. The head is also practically untouched- might have to touch up one
exhaust seat, and of course the affected valve guides are probably 'way loose.

There'll be more to fix- there's a lot of crap in the pump screen although it
looks to be mostly composed of chain-guide material- but at least the entries
for "cylinder head" and "pistons" can be crossed off the laundry list.

Whew.

Not sure what I'll do for springs yet.. will definitely go with Ti retainers and machined keepers... while I'm at it will probably put a full set of low-height guides in as well.

The B12 is running really well at the moment... I swung the cams around to IO=15°BTDC @ 0.050"/ EC=15°ATDC @ 0.050" (101/101) and it has outstanding midrange power there. When I took the 1100 out for that fateful ride I was actually planning to run the two bikes back-to-back to see which is stronger... I think the 1100 is, but then it has (had lol )quite a bit more cam in it.

If I can get the B12 into the upper 9's I'll be a happy guy... and it should be in reach now.

Ed

Hey Ed(s), I thought 4500 miles was considered high mileage for the heavy duty springs.......any input on this? IE: educate me fellows. Doesn't apply in my case, since I'll be going for the drop in, but what the hell.

Excellent news on the near miss!!

Edster, does Orient Express have a web site? Searched around but couldn't find anything, just retailers. Want to find out more about that clutch you have. Searched with Kizer's name etc for old shit, but no go.

Lemme know!

http://www.orientexpress.com


unless there's a different one....

Bcjohn, check out Ape it's much cheaper than orient and you get basically the same stuff. I would have gotten it from ape but I didn't see it before I ordered it from orient. Run the stock frictions and steels and a set of barnett springs and you'll have the strongest clutch aside from a lockup. The feel of the 4 spring clutch is 100% better than the diaphram clutch.

gsxr1198, when you get your head rebuilt if your guides are ok you can have them sunk in .050 for $50.00. All you need to do is the intakes. Then you can run any cams you want and the stock retainers. When I asked before I was wondering if retainer to seal clearence had anything to due with the motor expiring, or if it was valve springs.

Clearances were checked on 4/29; here's what I posted back then:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Okay, Edster here's the scoop:
Free travel at max lift, in side: 0.050"
Free travel at max lift, ex side: 0.070"

...safely over the 0.030" minimum, which makes me a happy guy <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...so no, I don't think that was the issue. The "real" reason will probably remain a mystery forever, although I suspect that if the valve had merely lost the keeper or pulled it through the retainer I wouldn't be looking at a broken valve spring.

Hard to say for sure, of course... things probably got pretty exciting in there for a few seconds but I was otherwise occupied at the moment images/icons/wink.gif

Ed

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hey, when the fuck do we get to page 6, anyway?

images/icons/grin.gif


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...not that I'm whoring for my 300th post, of course...

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeff:
http://www.orientexpress.com


unless there's a different one....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Jeff. Is the new Avatar in celebration of the court decisions? images/icons/grin.gif

Fuck, 'orientexpress.com'; some search I wound up doing....doh!!

Edster: I'll check out the APE shit as well. Thanks.

holy crap, ya made it to page6!
well, i dont know if you saw the post in general disc. my wife went and got pregnant on me (our first) sooo i think the 907 project just took a fatal hit. images/icons/frown.gif
looking forward to being a dad though images/icons/grin.gif
page 7 any one?

lol Onward to page seven it is.

Congratulations- and good luck with the new addition, Hotrod!!

Just hobled down two flights of stairs and find page six.
now it was wirthwhile.
p.s. what is the latest cam setup?HP-PS and so on.
I am going out of my fucking mind stuck in the house and dont even have a bike to dismantle.

Hey guys, I just redegreed my cams this weekend. DON'T use a bunch of extensions screwed on to a dial indacator. images/icons/rolleyes.gif I had about a 5" extension the first time I degreed my cams. I set them to 110/110, guess where they were.

106/113 images/icons/shocked.gif

My cam card calls for 105/106, so I left the intake at 106 and moved the exhaust to 106. Runs much better now. I can't wait to dyno it. I'm going to try to get the harley guys to dyno it today images/icons/grin.gif

lol No doubt it's a bit punchier!

FWIW I've been running 101/101 (IO=15°BTDC/EC=15°ATDC) on the B12 and like it a lot... picked up a WebCam 0.370" (grind #236) intake cam for it, looking forward to that big top-end charge.

Ed

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101/101? What is that supposed to do for your power curve?
Did you get an exhaust cam too or just the intake?

I went bact to the dyno today and made a few pulls. with my cam timing at 106/106 and ignition timing 30deg I made 156rwhp and 84rwtq. With 35deg timing I made 154rwhp and 88rwtq.

I'm going to try 110/110 and 30 deg of timing. Hopefully I'll be able to hit 160 images/icons/smile.gif

Howdy Edster:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>101/101? What is that supposed to do for your power curve?
Did you get an exhaust cam too or just the intake?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the idea behind 101/101 is to try to keep the combo as grunty as possible... the B12 is right around 500 pounds, and I weigh right at 200 in leathers. Also, since I'm still running stock rods I don't want to have to twist that 1216 'way up to get the fun out of it.

Right at the moment I'm still running the early GSXR exhaust cam; as I noted above it's pretty well retarded (EO= 37°BBDC, EC= 15°ATDC)... I may move it forward a little to close at 10°ATDC, I dunno... perhaps hitting the pipe with a slightly harder pulse might help sweep the combustion chamber a little better, hard to say... as it is, it starts to take off fairly hard at around 6500, is wide awake at 7000, and is pulling so hard it's tough to hold onto at 8000.

Talking about your advance curve results- doesn't the Dyna have a built-in retard function that you could toggle with a pushbutton (or other signal)-? Torque certainly looks better with more lead, but it would be great if you could pull a few degrees of advance out on demand at WFO...

Ed

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I'm confused with cam timing right now.

You say 101/101 is for maximum grunt, better low to midrange.

Lazer says 106/106 for midrange, 108/108 for all around preformance, 110/110 for top end.

Now going from 110/110 to 106/106 increases the valve overlap. Doesn't more overlap equal more top end power?

With my cams at 106/106 The exhaust closes 7deg atdc and intake opens at 12deg btdc. This is at .050 lift and the recommended valve clearences. At 110/110 The exhaust would close at 3deg atdc and the intake would open at 8deg btdc. Now this would decrease valve overlap, open the exhaust sooner for a better exhaust pulse, and close the intake later.

What would make more top end power?

I was just looking at my dyna instructions. Setting up ignition timing for better low end and using a retard curve, on the horn button or something, for wideopen would be bad *ss! The dyna has 4 retard curves, 4, 8, 12, & 16deg. Setting the timing at 35 and using an 8 degreee retart for top end might work, I'm going to have to try that one on the dyno images/icons/grin.gif

It'd also be sweet to be able to back the timing down with a button if the engine ever gets a little balky on the starter when hot... not too big an issue with the w/c mills but definitely a big deal for my B12.


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geeeez that guy is long-winded images/icons/grin.gif


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I don't wanna come across as portraying myself to be the Book of Knowledge on cam phasing- I'm still feeling my way along with DOHC engines; I can tell you what my thinking is, although the validity of the plan is open to lots of conjecture.

In running the low numbers I figure that I'm trading away some of the cylinder-filling ram effect available at the end of the intake cycle (at high engine speeds) for increased cylinder filling at lower rpm by getting the valves as far open as I can early (to let the piston crown get a good pull on the inlet tract as soon as it starts to move downward). At the same time, I'm hoping that leaving the exhaust valves open a little late will let the pipe help siphon the incoming mixture in across the piston dome (since these are virtually flat-topped pistons).

There's no free lunch. By opening the exhaust late I am giving up some of the gas energy I want to use by letting it expand in the cylinder rather than in the pipe. As noted above, the early intake opening means a corresponding early closing, so I am not seeing the full benefits of the inertia in the inlet column as a means of filling the cylinders at higher revs.

What I am trying to avoid with the early intake phasing is the penalty of intake reversion... the late close that works so well at speed can allow the piston to actually start pumping mixture backwards through the valves into the intake tract- or at the very least cause the flow to stall- when the flow isn't blasting along at WFO.

I'm thinking about revising the exhaust phasing to close at 10°ATDC because it will yield EO=42°BBDC or thereabouts... more energy going down the pipe for expansion.

Highest power at top end? For sure you'd want to retard the intake closing as late as you could stand it; on the exhaust side I suppose it'd be best to get the biggest bang you can travelling down the pipe for maximum expansion (and hopefully a nice fat negative pulse hitting the valves during overlap).

Frankly I suspect that I've overdone it with the late exhaust closing scheme using the GSXR exhaust- which is why I plan to advance it by 5° or so. It's quite possible that I'm hurting my goal of maximum piston draw on the intake by having the exhaust valves off the seats as late as 15°ATDC, when there is plainly some downward movement of the piston crown... even if there's no appreciable charge dilution from residual exhaust gas being pulled in, there is plainly a reduction in the amount of vacuum available to do some useful work at waking up the intake flow.

Ed


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Long may the wind pass (or pass more gas in the best Pingel model images/icons/grin.gif).

Glad to have someone doing this kind of shit. I only have book on cam shit, which is sure not the same as getting your hands dirty. I'm still chickening out and going for drop ins. Though both Eds should be proud since they talked me into it.

Later ! Lobe on!

Hey, my bike is running good with the 377 cams and stock springs. Is that considered a drop in images/icons/grin.gif

So closing the intake late for the cylinder filling effect, and opening the exhaust sooner for better exhaust pulse and scavenging is better for high rpm power.

More overlap is good for bottom end provided you don't have too much?

Does that sound about right?

An interesting thing happened on the dyno the other day. At about 7 grand my curve started to get choppy. It's usually pretty smooth, and a lot of fuel was blowing back out my velocity stacks. I've seen fuel blow out before but it's usually at low rpm's when I hit the gas too hard. I wonder if the long overlap is causing some of the exhaust to back into the carbs?

Since you're just sitting there goofing off at work anyway images/icons/wink.gif , here are a couple of articles that might be of interest:

http://www.motortecmag.com/archives/2001/feb/FEB01-05/FEB010501.html

http://www.motortecmag.com/archives/2001/jun/JUN01-01/JUN010101.html

Ed

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>At about 7 grand my curve started to get choppy. It's usually pretty smooth, and a lot of fuel was blowing back out my velocity stacks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you were running CV carbs there could be other factors, but since you're running flatslides it sure sounds like reversion due to a positive pressure wave coming back up the pipe. This was with IO= 12°BTDC EC= 7°ATDC -?

Question- does your dyno trace include an a/f ratio readout? ...that oughta show the effect of the multiple carburetion pretty plainly.

Ed

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Thanks for the articles, I'm going to have to read them a few times.

The dyno I use doesn't have an a/f setup images/icons/frown.gif but dialing in the carbs is easy. The cam timing is a pita.

Yeah, when the fuel was blowing out of the carbs it was at 106/106 which is intake open 12deg and exhaust close 7deg.

How is the 96 doing?

Hiya, Edster- re: your question a couple of panels back... after doing a little more reading overnight, I'd say that if torque-be-damned-I-want-max-power-at-any-cost was the order of the day you'd probably get there by retarding both the intake and exhaust events to take maximum effect from the momentum energy in the flowing gas- so something like 108i/100e or 110i/100e would be the approach to take.

While it might look glamorous on a dyno trace, a bike set up that way would probably be soundly outdragged by one with the same components set up as 102i/106e or the like. I've got the B12 apart, and am headed back towards something like 102i/106e (IO=16°BTDC, EC=10°ATDC).

The '96? ...haven't touched it since I pulled the head off; been having too much fun playing with the Bandit to start pulling the 1100 apart. I'm alomst done with the B12 for the moment (except for a few dyno pulls), so I'll get after the '96 in another week or so.

Ed

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I think I know why I'm having a hard time with the cam timing. The last few times I've checked my cam timing it's been off from where I set it. I redid the timing again this weekend and I found my intake cam at 96deg and my exhaust where I left it at 106deg. Ya think that caused the reversion I had images/icons/grin.gif I think the cams are slipping in the Yoshi sprockets I have. This happened once before on my exhaust cam when my bike was mostly stock. What cam sprockets are you guys using? I was thinking of installing a set of Ape sprockets the next time I swap shims.

I slotted my stockers; it was a bitch, the damned things are hard... a file was just making the hole shiny, so I ended up using some small mounted stones (about 3/16 OD, for sharpening chainsaw teeth- got them from Home Depot) in a die grinder.

re: the cam timing "shift"... I'm gonna lay out something I've found here, please feel free to throw rocks at it if I'm full of shit.

The times I've worked with cam phasing on the 1100w I have had a hard time getting a really conclusive agreement on TDC using the piston stop- seemed as though regardless of how many times I rocked the crank back and forth and adjusted the pointer I couldn't get absolute agreement on the numbers (and this is with a 12" diameter degree wheel).

The piston stop had a long enough point on it that the point-of-contact number was 30°+ from TDC... and the CW/CCW "stop" points always seemed to disagree by 5° or so no matter what I did. I set the cams that way a couple of times but had the same frustration you mentioned over the lack of repeatibility in the numbers when I went back to check later.

Soo-o-o-o, I took a few measurements off the piston crown and elected to take 0.300" of length off the nose of the stop- bringing the contact point down into the range of <10° on either side of TDC. Bingo- with this change I suddenly had dead-nuts agreement of the CW and CCW stop postions as the piston dome came up.

Why? ...I dunno for sure but my gut feeling is that it's due to the wristpin offset. Since I was stopping the piston a fairly long ways down the bore, my guess was I had been seeing essentially double the error as the pin offset was compounded on either side of BDC.

I made the same change to the piston stop for the B12 and had the same results- stopping the piston almost 20° closer to actual TDC made a very visible difference in the agreement of the CW and CCW numbers as I rolled the crank back and forth to calculate center. They had never been as "bad" as the 1100w numbers, but now they were the same to a very small fraction of a degree on the wheel.

My question to you is: how far (in degrees) from TDC does your piston stop contact the piston crown? ...since you're running a domed piston like I am, I wonder if you've observed the same lack of repeatibility when establishing the TDC benchmark- and so could also benefit from shortening the nose on your piston stop to reduce the pin-offset error (if that's what it actually is).

Thoughts -?

Ed

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[ 10-01-2001: Message edited by: gsxr1198 ]

I used to have a problem with TDC, but that was with a bullshitted up mount for my degree wheel. I made a billet mount for my degree wheel now and it works perfect. I use Ape's billet piston stop, and a 12" degree wheel from summit racing. I get 47 deg on either side of tdc and it's very repeatable. I usually double check that my wheel and pointer are still at tdc after I finish setting the cam timing.

What kind of piston stop are you using?
How is your degree wheel mounted, and how do you turn the crank?
What does Cw and CCW mean? images/icons/smile.gif

The first time I set the timing I used a 0-1" dial indicator with a bunch of extensions. That didn't work to well, and I goofed up the timing on that one. The second time the intake cam slipped or something, but the exhaust was right where I left it. And this time I triple checked everything and tightend the f*ck out of the sprocket bolts. I'm going to try to make a dyno run tommorow and I'll recheck the cam timing again to see if it slipped.

I slotted my stock sprockets on my old 90 gsxr750 and it was a pita!! I used a carbide burr for a diegrinder. I think I'm going to buy a set from ape just to be safe. Anyone want to buy a nice set of yosh adjustable cam sprockets? images/icons/smile.gif

Edster queried:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What kind of piston stop are you using?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's from my "Holeshot" kit, but it looks like the same unit APE (and everybody else) sells.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>How is your degree wheel mounted, and how do you turn the crank?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fired up my trusty lathe and turned out an arbor that fits inside the recess in the timing reluctor... it moves the wheel out about 1.5", and has a stepped, raised flange for centering the wheel... a long bolt goes through it and into the crank; runout is very low.

Generally I turn the crank on the 1100w with the hex on the reluctor; that in itself probably introduces a little error since the keyway on the reluctor has a little slop on the dowel in the crank snout. I'm too lazy to pull the sprocket cover off to turn via the countershaft, and I don't like bringing the piston against the stop with the rear wheel- too much inertia.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>What does Cw and CCW mean? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why, "clockwise" and "counter-clockwise" of course images/icons/grin.gif

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Edster growled:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>the intake cam slipped or something<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FWIW I degrease the bolts, cam holes, and sprockets with Q-tips dipped in acetone then glue the bolts in with a big droplet of Loctite 262:

http://www.loctite.com/datasheets/tds/Product_262.pdf

...as it kicks over it hardens into a fairly hard plastic which fills the slots enough to help support the shank of the bolt.

I've put the cams in at the wrong position myself several times images/icons/wink.gif but have never had them slip once so glued.

Ed


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We're probably using the same piston stop. The way I used to turn the motor over was with the reluctor, but like you said the slop in the slot causes it to move back and forth when checking tdc. I don't think it matters if your always turning the same direction.

Check out my adaptor. It works for air and oil cooled gsxr's.

http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/wheelandmount.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/wheelmount.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~edster75/wheelmount2.jpg

Sorry for the crappy pics. My camera sucks images/icons/smile.gif

That loctite looks like a good idea, I'm gonna have to try that.

lol That arbor looks too nice! ...I just turned mine outta a piece of phenolic that was laying around images/icons/grin.gif

The 262 will do a good job for you; it's a "permanent" type but the bolts will come back out without heat.


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edster do you still want to sell the yosh cam sprockets?

I'll let you know on the cam sprockets in a week or two. I want to recheck my timing and make sure It didn't slip. If It did slip I'm going to replace them, but then I wouldn't recommend buying them. I don't think it's the sprockets anymore I think it was the loose nut behind the wrench, but I'm going to double check the timing to be sure images/icons/smile.gif

thanks for the reply.
keep me in mind if you do want to sell them?

BC, Edster, Gsxr, I have read this whole tread, great info guys now to throw you a curve, will the 1100 Cams fit 93 750? I am a huge turbo buick Fan and my GN engine is on the stand so I have a good understanding of cam and cam timing but when you talk 206/210 on a V6 with 20psi Boost, then I come over here and read 101/101 kinda have to put myself in the right mind set. most of my riding is commuting to the Base 30 miles one way, any ways I just got this engine it has 7k miles on it and I just put in my 600 Frame, I am not looking for the top end Bang I would like some grunt at 5-10K rpms any suggestions. Next October I will probably opt for the 907 kit but right now I would settle for the cams. Any Suggestions?

Oh almost forgot, the Bike is stock except for the D&D full exhaust I will be installing the New BMC Pods and the Factory pro Config 3.0 jets tuned for the filters and pipe. Unfortunaly the only Dyno Shop is a HD specialists and I have no Idea If it can help tune the carbs.

Page 7 is on the Way.

Jim

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>BC, Edster, Gsxr, I have read this whole tread, great info guys now to throw you a curve, will the 1100 Cams fit 93 750? I am a huge turbo buick Fan and my GN engine is on the stand so I have a good understanding of cam and cam timing but when you talk 206/210 on a V6 with 20psi Boost, then I come over here and read 101/101 kinda have to put myself in the right mind set.<hr></blockquote>

My cam card says gsxr750/1100 on it so I think they will fit. The oil cooled gsxr's are interchangable. Even the old gs1100/1150 cams fit in the oil cooled gsxr1100's images/icons/shocked.gif

What is 206/210? Duration?
101/101 are lobe centers.

206 in 206 ex duration @.5 lift

that is the cam I am running in my Turbo V-6

Jim

93, the cams Edster and I have been yakking about are more in the realm of 245° duration at 0.370" lift... a wee bit o' difference between your boosted two-valve wedge and our lil normally-aspirated four-valve hemis images/icons/smile.gif

Looks like the answer to your question is a definite "yes", here's a link to WebCam's grinds... the poop for our mills is near the bottom of the page:

http://www.webcaminc.com/suzukimoto.html


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for the cam info i have re posted

Guys its all right here.
you just hace to read the thread.
160rwhp is possible without spending masses

reposting

keeping the thread alive.
Have fun

Just been reading through this thread on cams, and have a question...

Has anyone got any experience with using either Megacycle or Kent cams on their watercoolers?

Dave images/icons/cool.gif