I've gotten pretty good at getting the knee down at the track and lately I've gotten to where I can powerslide the back end to point the nose while passing on the outside. Here's my question, what are the most common causes for losing the front traction and going down? I run with 32 on front and 34 on back with perilli Diablos. Just want to know what to look out for because the instant the front loses traction, games over.

Thanks, Dan

One of my trackday pics....
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/nz6.jpg

you run pressures that high on the track ?

Yep. I forget how I found it on Perili's web site, it's so hard to find what you want there, but I know if you go lower in the front you get what seems like the front tire rippling under high braking pressures. Feels like a warped rotor kind of. I increased my pressure to 32 and the vibration was gone. I stay on top of all my maintenance, but took the front wheel off, check the head mount for looseness, turned out it was the tire pressure. I have the kind of blind faith that a lower pressure on front than the back will help insure that the back will always give way before the front does, but I know there are more factors than that. so, back to my original question, What are they?

any debris in the track
rebound too much on the forks
preload too soft
compression too hard in fork
rear shock too stiff
not being smooth in corners
too much speed / lean angle

Short and to the point!

Thanks, Dan

Front tire is greasy..or old and not sticking, death grip on the bars...


Next time...Please resize your pic.... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/bitchslap.gif either that, or buy me a 60" screen... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/trout.gif

See how Easy that was...? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/gix_pic.JPG

Yeah, I'm terrible at changing pics to fit different formats... no patience.

Now, this is info I wanted. When do the tires get "greasy"? Is it a wear thing or a temperature thing? Is this something you see more on a race compound tire or street tire like the Perilli Diablo's like I'm running? I think the rebound and damping I have on my forks are ok, I've never had a problem with the front skipping bumps on the corners or bottoming out on hard braking. I think I can tell that the front is sticking for now by the balls of rubber peeled off the edges and other pieces of rubber picked up of the track and stuck to the tire... How far down does the compound go and have the same consistancy as what is on the outside (newer) part of the tire? Have you had experience on pushing the front end? How do you set up your corner so that the front pushes but not too far?

Welp, I had a Supercorsa's on at the time...the front seemed kinda oldish when I bought it, but I needed tires bad.......anyway, in a right turn at about 100 mph, the front started slidin pretty good, I stayed on the gas, and it came back...I couldn't tell you how old the tire was, even though I bought it new, prolly sat on a shelf for sometime, and I did put a few miles on it..but, when I bought a new tire, SC 2, it worked fine...

Just tryin to give ya some different reasons why the frt. would go away on ya... I'd change tires, and see what happens..

Thanks Hammer, Just trying to find out all I can before I even think about getting brave and pushing the tires to their limits. I've never drug the pegs yet on my GSXR 1K and don't intend on finding the ragged edge of the limits. I like my bike and my old feeble body too well to go into this ignorant of how the tires act.

Dan

Just want to know what to look out for because the instant the front loses traction, games over.




That's not necessarily true, Dan. Most of the time, if you have a workable body position and don't really overload the tire, front end slides are often recoverable. The thought of losing front-end grip is scary as hell until you've done it and pulled it back up. Then you realize it doesn't have to be as scary as it seems (not saying you won't bin it - just saying you don't have to).

Yeah, I've heard that, and I know your right, but I don't think I'll be pushing the front any time soon..... intentionally anyway. I'd like to get a 600 track bike that I won't loose much sleep over if I do crash it. The bike i'm using now is a 1K which is also my commute to work bike. But it sure is a thrill being leaned way over passing someone and sliding the back ever so gently. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Thanks guys, Dan

P.S. I did still have one question from earlier. Does the tire get greasy from getting too hot during laps or when it wears down most of the carccus?

Check run out on your front wheel see if the wheel is bent or warped like mine is lol. On my favorite turn I lost the front end BIG TIME.... To the point where my knee puck was holding the bikes weight and grounded it to the leathers. Steering shot to the opposite direction, but I easied back the throttle and it popped right out of it.

If your doing Track days you should start running race tires, or atleast diablo corsas.

Well, I'm not sure about the regular Diablos cause I only use Super Corsa tires. But seems to me like your pressures are too high. For Pirellis (Super Corsa's anyways), the higher the pressure, the more heat generated. It's not like Dunlops where you lower the pressure to generate more heat. I ran 31psi in the front this race weekend cause weather was at best 10-12C. But on warmer days, I run 29psi.

You'll mainly loose the front end under trail braking into the corner or not loading the rear (like 60%r / 40%f) when mid corner. You as a rider should adapt to the conditions such as cold tires, new tires, wet track, etc... So I would say that most of the time, front end tucks are rider errors. You will feel the front getting heavy or pushing. Just don't chop the throttle. That will cause more weight to go on the front. You should remain smooth on the throttle and give a bit more gas to transfer weight to the rear. Standing up the bike a bit can help too. But do both in moderation. Massive changes will unsettle the bike.

Check run out on your front wheel see if the wheel is bent or warped like mine is lol. On my favorite turn I lost the front end BIG TIME.... To the point where my knee puck was holding the bikes weight and grounded it to the leathers. Steering shot to the opposite direction, but I easied back the throttle and it popped right out of it.

If your doing Track days you should start running race tires, or atleast diablo corsas.



Dang mister, I'll bet you felt like a lucky boy eh? I always go through my bike pretty well before track days. Nothing worse (save a crash) than paying your 120 bucks and not getting to race. I'd like to get a spare set of stock wheels to have the Corsa's on to save road wear. I'll probably jump on it when I see a pair of stock ones for sale at a cheap price. Don't think I really need the light megga buck rims, just something to put my soft tires on to go to the track with.

Thanks guys.

Well, I'm not sure about the regular Diablos cause I only use Super Corsa tires. But seems to me like your pressures are too high. For Pirellis (Super Corsa's anyways), the higher the pressure, the more heat generated. It's not like Dunlops where you lower the pressure to generate more heat. I ran 31psi in the front this race weekend cause weather was at best 10-12C. But on warmer days, I run 29psi.

You'll mainly loose the front end under trail braking into the corner or not loading the rear (like 60%r / 40%f) when mid corner. You as a rider should adapt to the conditions such as cold tires, new tires, wet track, etc... So I would say that most of the time, front end tucks are rider errors. You will feel the front getting heavy or pushing. Just don't chop the throttle. That will cause more weight to go on the front. You should remain smooth on the throttle and give a bit more gas to transfer weight to the rear. Standing up the bike a bit can help too. But do both in moderation. Massive changes will unsettle the bike.



Yeah, I'm working on flicking in and out and keeping light on the bars. getting better at it. Next month I'll try experimenting with lower pressures, but I do know with the street diablos, below 30 makes the tire ripple while under heavy braking. (front)