My friends' girlfriend is a nurse, and she was giving me the shpeel about how dangerous motorcycles are and how she works in the emergency room etc. and her rant took her into the part about survivability chances.

This really intrigued me, because to be honest, I don't often see "Rider killed" posted, it's a rarity, and I see A LOT of "wrecked my bike, she's getting repaired" or something like that. I know that basing it off a forum is not going to be near the right numbers but at least I can get a ballpark figure in my head..

She goes on and starts saying like "around the hospital they say that 95% of motorcycle accidents end in death!" and at that I had to butt in, and basically I'm like "Bullshit"

If each wreck had a 95% chance to kill the rider, and the cliche` that I hear most often is "There's riders who've gone down, and those who will go down" , that means that 5% of people who ride bikes live?

Does anyone know an actual statistical webpage or at least someone who has generated some proven stats that I can print out and show her? My buddy is against motorcycles and of course he took his girlfriends' side which totally pissed me off, I'm sitting there with 2 people telling me that 95% of motorcycle wrecks end in death when I KNOW (or i THINK i do) that that's total bullshit. I just wanted to punch em both in the face.

Anyway, can someone dispel this so I can print something out to shove in her face (even though she'll probably say it's bullshit) and really because I'm quite curious of how many wrecks DO end in death...

Also feel free to comment on this, what's your guess as to the amount of cycle wrecks that end in death? I might be way off but I thought it was an actual rarity that a motorcycle wreck ended in death, as long as the rider had the right gear on...

I have an entire research paper at home.... Too bad I wont be there for a couple of days....

her numbers are way off....

Do you know an off the top of your head number?

I was sitting here thinking about how many people I know who have wrecked MULTIPLE times and i'm thinking that 95% is IMPOSSIBLE. I know a guy who has wrecked 4 times, so he beat the 95% four times in a row? Pretty much impossible, and I know there's TONS of others who have wrecked multiple times as well.

Now I wanna punch her in the face twice.

I am not for sure about the death percentage, but I believe that motorcycle accidents are like 7% of all accidents. Study shows that even most of them are because of a "cager didn't see" or something stupid. I believe that all the accidents, other than ones you can't help, are because of cars. There is also the squids that do triple digits, in areas that aren't safe, not meaning 100+ is safe. These are usually the ones that end up in the deaths I am guessing. I throw that in peoples face when they say "bikeing" isn't safe. They shut up after that. Also, if it was a 95% chance of death, then why do racers still live to race? They wreck more than anyone out there, and live to race the next one. Just my two cents here. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/burnout.gif

Statistics....statistics......
......They mean nothing at all to an individual. The average motorcycle accident just simply doesn't exist. Your attitude to motorcycling is the key. You can make it a safe hobby or a lethal one. It's mainly up to you. You choose.

AND they are asshat cagers too??? Maybe throw it back at them that 95% of the accidents that happen are from cagers with their heads up there ass on their cell phone not paying attention. (I doubt if my made up stats are reliable though).. even better yet.. tell her that 98% of women can't drive. and no she isnt in the 2% (had to leave 2% for exceptions)

brixxer1100 said:
AND they are asshat cagers too??? Maybe throw it back at them that 95% of the accidents that happen are from cagers with their heads up there ass on their cell phone not paying attention. (I doubt if my made up stats are reliable though).. even better yet.. tell her that 98% of women can't drive. and no she isnt in the 2% (had to leave 2% for exceptions)

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif

ok ask her how many death's she has seen where the guy was wearing a helmet/gear. about the only way you would die then is smacking into a car. but dought you would die from just sliding as long as you didnt turn sideways and flip around a bunch of times.

4 of my friends have went down 3 this year. 1 was reported. so statistics are crap. there where all preventative also. 1 was running from the cops at night hit a corner to fast and caught some gravel. 2nd low speed water got stuck in the handle bars and it locked the triple up (the dumb ass). 3rd black out from lack of fluids and went rigt into a ditch. 4th doing a wheelie for about 2 miles and then hit the subframe and that all she wrote. none of them where wearing any gear. none of them badly hurt. the worst one was the bottle water one. his sunglass's broke and cut his head pretty deep.

Well if those stats were correct ( http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/bs.gif) then I am living a charmed life. I started riding in the 1960's (dirt, street in the '70's) and I have been involved in more accidents than most of you could imagine. I've been down at 130+ MPH (race track), I've been run over by a semi, I've been hit head on by a drunk driver, I've had so many low sides that I don't even consider them wrecks since you just pick up the bike and go on ... (you get the idea). I also have numerous friends who ride and race motorcycles. In all this time I have never had a friend killed in a motorcycle wreck (cars yes) though some have gotten screwed up pretty bad including myself (couldn't walk for 2 years from the drunk driver).
I just love how uninformed people like to make up ( LIE) statistics to "prove" thier claims. Tell your friend that she is full of shit and to try and research some facts prior to making a fool of her self. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/bash.gif

MustangThief said:
Do you know an off the top of your head number?

I was sitting here thinking about how many people I know who have wrecked MULTIPLE times and i'm thinking that 95% is IMPOSSIBLE. I know a guy who has wrecked 4 times, so he beat the 95% four times in a row? Pretty much impossible, and I know there's TONS of others who have wrecked multiple times as well.

Now I wanna punch her in the face twice.



95%... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I have 7 crashes behind me (street and track, not counting dirt), am still alive and my worst injury has been a concussion... I have worn full gear all the time and have never gotten road rash either http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Just hope my luck stays http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

They ALL end in death. It just may take 80 or 90 years. Troy341

Here's some stats I pulled from the MSF website. It's probably the most unbiased source I could find. For some reason, I didn't trust the numbers from ABATE and Biker's Rights. I don't believe there has really been a comprehensive motorcycle safety study since the Hurt Study.

Stat (http://www.msf-usa.org/Downloads/2001%20Crash%20CSI_v.pdf)

Bike accidents make fatalities much more often that car fatalities. This is a fact you should accept very sober, so you can get your head on straight to beat the odds.

Now let's talk about the odds. This friend of yours is just exaggerating and she's not very good with numbers. 95% means 19 out of 20 wrecks ending in death. It's more like the other way. You friend who had 4 wrecks would have a 1 in 160,000 chance of surviving if it were 95%. Not hardly.

As the report above says, you have a 3.8% chance of dying in a wreck. So, if you have ridden for a while and have had 4 wrecks, which isn't so uncommon, you have a 85% chance of still being alive. On the other hand that's a 15% chance, or 1 in 6 chance of dying. As in, roll the some dice, if it comes up 6 you're DEAD. Someone in four car wrecks has a WAY HIGHER chance than 1 in 6. Probably 1 in 1000 or so.

Anyway, cars are a risk too. Cigarettes are a risk. Vioxx is a risk. Live the way you want and let others know you don't even feel alive unless you ride, so tell 'em to stick it.

Yeah her numbers are way off. I highsided at 105mph, slid down the road the entire distance from one light pole to the next. Landed face first (cracked helmet in half) shatter ankle, borke leg in a few places, internal injuries etc...

However I died and couldn't be revived.

Don't like to think about the percentage...sad

A lot of motorcycle wrecks that occur go unreported as well....

chrisk said:
A lot of motorcycle wrecks that occur go unreported as well....



If they counted the number of times the stunters went down, the numbers would be little skewed.

I don't remember exactly, but I once read that the chance of death in a car accident is higher than in a mc accident, but the chance of a disabling injury is higher in a mc accident then a car accident

i've been in two accidents, i'm fine, in the last one the bike was totaled.

maybe working at the hospital, 95% of the accidents that SHE SEES end in death?

some well known dude did some study i read years ago- it comes down to this he says- cities are the most dangerous why-cagers- other than that he claimed 45% of crashes involve a rider drinking- why ud drink on a bike i dont know must be those damn harley guys- he also claimed another 45% are doin stunts or trying to do a stunt when they crash- that leaves 10% which brings the number down very low- he claimed 1 in 1000 riders who ride for 25 years will die- if you ask me thats pretty damn good- if you went downtown and crossed streets for 5 hours a day a few days a week you wouldnt last very long- he basically states that if you ride responsibly and even stunt responsibly you should be straight- he also stated some crazy shit about cagers- when you see those death VS accident numbers the non-deaths include everything but death- so he came to the conclusion that you are more likely to be fucked up some how in a car than on a bike- oh and wear your gear-

Everyone I know has had wrecked.....most more then once. I don't know anyone close me thats died yet but Im sure somone will soon...still not close to 95%

I also work in the hospital, in ICU. The majority of bike wreks don't even make it to our floor. They pretty much end in the ER. Sad but true.

I have a friend who is 40 and has wrecked 13 times and is still living. He doesn't do stunts other than the occasional 1st gear short wheelie. I have wrecked twice myself.

I read an interview some time ago with a 125 GP rider, Robbin Harms - he estimated he had about 200 crashes behind him... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif And I don't think that's very uncommon among pro racers...

Some more statistics can be found from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration website. They break it down by the cause of the accident, age group, average engine size, etc. I used it to do a report on bad riding habits such as drinking.

Here is a site for the single vehicle wrecks (motorcycle only), it is really lengthy. 45% of all fatalities are single vehicle, and a bunch of those happen because they collide with a stationary object. LINK (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/Rpts/2001/809-360.pdf)

Here is another site within the NHTSA that I like better, it is easier to read and has many colors. ANOTHER LINK (http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/PPT/PresMCIncreases.pdf)

According to the previous report, in 2003 roughly 67,000 riders were injured and 3,661 fatalities. That would put the rate somewhere around 5.5% death rate (assuming all crashes ended in people either being injured or dead). This would actually mix numbers from the nurse, her 95% is equal to the survival rate. I think all of that is right, correct me if you find something wrong.

-Eric

I remember a statistic that for every 100,000 miles driven on a motorcycle, you have a 4% change of dying in a crash. The rate for cars is something like .04%. that would make bikes about 100 times more dangerous.

Of course this is just what some guy told me, and I don't know where he got this info. But then again it seems like reasonable figures. I mean we have to realize that bikes are not as safe as cars but 95% seems just a little on the high side.

Incidently, air travel was about 100 times safer than driving a car the same distance - if you believe my dubious sources. Anyway, I'm still doing my 1200 mile ride later this week even if it's 10000 more dangerous than flying..

I was just thinking about this on my ride home yesterday.
I think the lack of operational instruction available to motorcycle riders over the years has been pretty lacking. We're getting better and more and more people aren't starting until after their first MSF course. This however was not the case years ago. Hell, if you didn't pick it up and ride away alive you were either dead or a square daddio!

I think with proper instruction, proper (ie: FULL) riding gear and the right attitude, you're safer on a bike. I feel like I have the potential to be at a much higher risk on a bike, but it's all in the wrist. If I keep it slow, smooth and safe, chances are, I'll be riding until I'm physically unable to. I know a LOT of old old fuckers who have been riding for 50 years without a streetbike crash. Then I know a lot of old fuckers who've crashed more times than they can count. Whether they can't count that high or just can't recall, I can't tell. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
If people were more aware of motorcycles around them and motorcyclists were forced to pass a training course before throwing a leg over, I think the fatality rate would be far lower than that of cars.

The active safety on a bike is much better than in a car. However the bike's passive safety is close to zero.
You cannot apply statistics on yourself because it's mainly two groups of riders who do all the crashing. It's the inexperienced and the risk takers. That's what I tell people who think bikes are dangerous. The 1000cc sports bikes are the safest bikes around because they got the power, brakes and handling to nearly avoid every idiot on the road.
Always think 'what if' and be prepared for counter-measures.

i don't know the actual fatality # but i do know that its incresed by 70% in the last 2 decades. i read somewhere its about 3500 and some change. it seemed low but they were fatalities not wrecks. more than 2/3 involve alcohol and are at night with no car involved. just alcohol induced rider error. it doesn't take much for a sportbike to get away from you, no matter how good you think you are.

I think with proper instruction, proper (ie: FULL) riding gear and the right attitude, you're safer on a bike.



I really don't think so. Unless the fool running the red light has the proper attitude too.

coffeehead said:

I think with proper instruction, proper (ie: FULL) riding gear and the right attitude, you're safer on a bike.



I really don't think so. Unless the fool running the red light has the proper attitude too.



Sorry, I guess that should have ended with "safer on a bike than you would be without these things."
I'm not taking into account unforseen accidents like people blowing red lights. That can kill you in a cage too. With more experience and proper instruction you may be more prepared to take evasive actions that could save your life. That coupled with adequate riding gear are just raising your chances for survival in the event of an accident.

In case anyone still cares, I found some information that I found pretty interesting because it gives figures by miles driven and by registered vehicles. I found it on the insurance information institute's site and there's more information there. http://www.iii.org/media/hottopics/insurance/motorcycle/?table_sort_739024=7

KEY FACTS

Motorcyclists were 32 times as likely as passenger car occupants to die in a crash in 2003, per vehicle mile traveled.


The fatality rate for motorcyclists was 4.6 times the fatality rate for passenger car occupants per registered vehicle in 2003.

All I can say is wear the proper gear. My first accident involved an old lady cutting in front of me about 20 ft away. I had just started riding and I don't know If I could have avoided the car even now since she pulled in front of me so close that I had hardly any time to react. Long story short I flew 38 feet and landed smack dab on the top/front of my helmet. Know doubt I would have fractured my skull and let all the grey matter out. I had brain swelling, convulsions and I was knocked out for about 45 minutes. I broke both forearm bones and pushed them into my hand and I broke my shin bone while it twisted the top clamp of the bike as I went over the handlbars. I also had ruptured blood vessels in a certain private area if you know what I mean. I was expected to be a DOA when the helicopter landed but I'm a tough little cookie. Even the paramedics thought I was dead when they went into the local motorcycle shop a few days later to get something for their bikes and they were making small talk with the parts guy. It just so happened that I was at that shop like 3 times a week looking at crap for my bike so the parts guy knew it was me and called my house to see if I was still alive. I have crashed several more time and broken another leg, 4 ribs and the latest injury being a possibly exploded knee. So far I have had 6 accidents that I remember and I beat the odds on them and I will continue to beat the odds for YEARS to come...

Browsing the news today, I found this article if anyone is interested.. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-08-motorcycle-deaths_x.htm

Not that any of this is stopping me from riding every day. My car is still under a cover, waiting to be driven once a week to get groceries.

Well, lets see. I've wrecked a total of 3 bikes about 7 times, that I can remember. Totaled 2 of 'em, and I'm still walking. You do the math.

AND they are asshat cagers too??? Maybe throw it back at them that 95% of the accidents that happen are from cagers with their heads up there ass on their cell phone not paying attention. (I doubt if my made up stats are reliable though).. even better yet.. tell her that 98% of women can't drive. and no she isnt in the 2% (had to leave 2% for exceptions)


http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/rotflol.gif +1 http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

holy crap this thread got brought back from out of nowhere

Now I wanna punch her in the face twice.


http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/rotflol.gif That is so hilarious that is is exactly the sort of thing I would say.

Ok after readoing ALMOST all the posts, I want to thank peeps for teh links, I saved the MSF link in case this argument should ever arise again.

And isn't it the case that something like 30% of MC crashes are single vehicle (the bike) crashes in which the rider has run off the road or hit something?