I really want to understand this. I don't see the point though. Do you use the clutch at all? How can doing it this way in the twisties keep the bike undercontrol? Sometimes, if I'm even doing it right, it gets false neutral or it will still slide all around. I've heard if you get this down you can really get some awesome control on the track and twisties. and help? any downshifting when running twisties for dummies?

For downshifting, yeah, you'd better use the clutch! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


To understand what's happening, it helps to view your drivetrain in simplified terms. Just imagine that there are only three basic components... the engine (crankshaft), the transmission, and the rear wheel. Since the sprocket gearing is static (can't change it when riding), it doesn't need to come into play whatsoever for purposes of example. Theoretically, you could achieve the same gearing by using the same size sprockets front and rear while changing the tranny gear ratios. All the other complexities of the tranny are likewise thrown out, don't sweat the details.

Anyhoo... imagine you're cruising along in 3rd gear, and your engine crankshaft is spinning at 5,000 RPM (completely arbitrary #s). Due to the gear reduction of the transmission, this causes your rear wheel to spin at 1000 RPM. So, your tranny's 3rd gear ratio is 5:1. For every 5 turns of the crankshaft, your rear wheel spins once. Now you downshift....

Let's say 2nd gear's ratio is 10:1... for every 10 turns of the crankshaft, the rear wheel turns once. Great. Except for the fact that when you downshift, the rear wheel is still moving at the same speed (1000 RPM), as is the engine crankshaft if you don't blip the throttle (5,000 RPM). You've immediately changed the mechanical linkage between the crankshaft and rear wheel, causing the rear wheel to move much more slowly than the crankshaft. Or - looking at it from a different perspective, you've caused the motor to spin much more quickly than the rear wheel. No matter how you look at it - the change is immediate, and something has to give to allow each to spin at their required speed.

in actuality, both ends give a bit to bring everything back into equilibrium. The engine speed is pulled up by the speed of the rear wheel and the change in gearing, while the rear wheel speed is pulled down by the resistance of the motor to change (engine braking). But the bike's still going the same speed - which means that when the rear wheel immediately starts spinning slower, it's the exact same effect as if you were applying alot of pressure to the rear brake, often resulting in a short lockup.

Throttle blipping, ideally, is meant to bring the engine RPMs up to what they should be, after a downshift, so that the crankshaft and rear wheel speeds stay in the proper relation to each other, preventing the motor from pulling down the rear wheel speed, and thereby allowing
the rear wheel to remain at the same speed during a downshift.

Another technique you can use is to feed the clutch back out relatively slowly after downshifting. In this case, what you're doing is allowing the motor to gradually spin up to the required speed to match the rear wheel speed, but the clutch slippage allows it to happen smoothly, giving you control over just how much feedback the rear wheel gets from the motor, and vice versa. That's basically how a slipper clutch works as well.

I personally use both methods. With either one - the only way you're going to get good at it is to practice. ALOT.

awesome ok I think I get the whole idea behind giving it gas to match the speed of the new gear to the crank and rear tire. Of coarse all I've ever done is just let the clutch out slow, or reaaalllly slow when entering a corner. That works to but you seem to still get a lot of slipping and slidding if your going way too fast for the gear. You hear racers AMA or even movies like "Faster" talk about how all the racers now do the blipping and how its better.

How do you really know how much gas to give. If I'm thinking I want to go down a gear or two before a corner, I pull in the clutch kick it down and let the clutch out slow with a bit of gas so I don't get the nose dive of the engine catching and braking.
So maybe this is lame, but any step 1, 2,3 for entering a corner hott but you don't want to coast with the clutch in because you know you came in to hott. So dropping the clutch will only give you a chatter or crash. What is the proper techniqe for throttle blimping and steps. I read the article in sport rider but it doesn't give a compelte how too. No one I know even wants to try it, so I can't get an advice around here for it. And I don't want to be doing it wrong to hurt myself or the tranny.

gimpsta said:
How do you really know how much gas to give. If I'm thinking I want to go down a gear or two before a corner, I pull in the clutch kick it down and let the clutch out slow with a bit of gas so I don't get the nose dive of the engine catching and braking.




that's what you should be doing. You're going to know how much gas to give by experience only. When you 'feel' out the clutch the way you're doing, it's teaching you something (subconciously)... you can feel the resistance (engine braking) as you let it out, and therefore get instant feedback as to whether or not you're giving it enough gas to match wheel speed. If you focus on learning to let the clutch out faster while maintaining control through 'blipping' you'll work your way up to being able to automatically 'blip' with pretty good accuracy, eliminating the need for prolonged clutch engagement.

I don't think anyone who's really smooth with downshifts ever gets to the point where they match engine speed perfectly every time, in every scenario, at every speed, while just dumping the clutch. Everyone lets it out slowly enough to get some feedback as they come into the gas. But it becomes second nature, and you end up doing it so fast that it looks to casual observers that you're just dumping it out.

I also don't think (all my opinion - could easily be wrong) that working to completely eliminate 'feeling' out the clutch is a good thing. I like using and controlling engine braking to some extent in some circumstances. But maybe that's just another reason I'm slow http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

as far as letting out the clutch while turning - I don't know if I'd advise that. I think most riders get all their shifting out of the way before turn entry. trail braking is common, trail shifting is not http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

if this is something you want to practice, it might help to do it on a straight empty road... take having to concentrate on entering a turn out of the equation. might help you get it down faster http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

oh i hear ya, i've been doing it coming to stop lights and what not. I was just worried i was going at it all wrong. I probably should just do what you've said. I should give it a little more as i let the clutch out, instead now sometimes i don't give it much at all. But as far as shifting in corners, i don't usually no. Its just those few unfortunate times when your downshifting and u've to much entry speed. You dont' want to dump the clutch and slide or chatter. So you let it out slowwwww, but the corner still comes up on ya and doubles back on ya!!! So your stuck with no engine braking now too http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif . But i'll mess around with it some more like you were saying.

thx man

DAMN Lean way to break it down bro !!!!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif