In my latest motorcycle magazine it talks about "clutchless" up-shifting being a superior method to fast and smooth riding so I just started to try it. In the article, it doesn't mention that you have to engage the clutch at all, they just saw "back off the throttle a little and click up into the next gear."

I've found that that is impossible with my bike. No matter what, I have to pull in the clutch lever "just a little" to do a fast upshift. My question is, is that normal or am I doing something wrong? By utilizing this method, my upshifts are clearly quicker and smoother, but I'm wondering if I should be even engaging that clutch lever at all. F.Y.I. I have an '01 GSXR1K

T.I.A.

Lovespicyfood said:
In the article, it doesn't mention that you have to engage the clutch at all, they just say "back off the throttle a little and click up into the next gear."

T.I.A.



That's the way I do it on my GSXR600. Apply up pressure to the shifter, back off the throttle slightly and "bump", you're in. Try it between 5th and 6th first. It's easier in the top gears. When I say, "back off the throttle", I mean just to take the torque off the gear. If you decelerate enough to get engine braking, you've gone to far. Good luck!

this is extremely simple and its the only way i upshift, get going on second accelerate and as you are ready to shift to 3rd get off the gas so the bike is no longer reving and click the next gear and get back on the gas.....

Thanks for the info guys...

But let me get this straight, I should NOT touch the clutch lever at all during the upshift? Like I said, I have tried this before, and that darn shift lever would not move at all unless I pulled in the clutch lever just a 1/2 inch or so...

thats right you don't touch....you could do this with your left hand in your pocket......just apply some pressure let of the gas and there it goes....practice in 2nd to 3rd...

Its not good to clutchless shift all the time, you can put added wear to the shifter forks. But I do it every now and then when I am lazy and dont feel like grabbing the clutch lever.

A few years ago I stripped down a 50cc bike. The bell housing, the goodie that holds the clutch plates, actually had dents it where the plates bite. It was so bad that the clutch wouldn't function properly. This was from "snap changing". Is it worth the damage it causes?

I've done this before but someone told me I shouldn't.....2Ksixxer jic(just in case

NDP23 said:
thats right you don't touch....you could do this with your left hand in your pocket.....



... or with your left hand on your thigh or left forearm on the tank. If you're riding with only your right hand on the bars, clutchless keeps you from continually regripping to shift. It's a quicker, smoother shift when riding 2-up also. Avoids the granny shift which often rocks your rider back and forwards as you slowly clutch shift.

As for gear damage, it's my understanding that during gear changes from 2nd-6th most riders release the clutch quickly anyway. If they were feathering the clutch it might save wear, but releasing it quickly basically puts the same type of stress on the gears, clutch plates and chain. This assumes the clutchless shifting is smooth. If the shift is off and surges while shifting clutchless, then there is stess on the drive components.

Like clutch shifting, It's all about learning the tiiming of the bike. Once you know when to apply pressure to the shifter, how much to blip the throttle down and when to throttle up it'll get smoother. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

ok, here is the deal. most modern sportbikes have what is called a "constant mesh" transmission. this is what allows you to be able to shift without the clutch while the transmission is still slightly loaded. it means that at all times, the gears are always lined up, not like on car transmissions that have synchros to line up the gears and need 0 load to change gears.

clutchless shifting when performed properly will cause no damage to the gears or any part fo the transmission internals. just don't try to downshift without the clutch, because you need to rev-match to keep the rear wheel from locking up.

Where you run into problems with the shift forks is when you start forcing the shifts. It has nothing to do with how quickly or slowly the clutch is released. Most damage is minimal, a little wear on the sides of the forks. But it is possible, and actually pretty easy, to bend the forks or round the dogs on the tranny if you miss.

It's a good application in racing and even some street riding. I actually still use the clutch when racing but I don't chop the throttle. I just tap the clutch lever. It's not any faster or slower (for me) it's just how I choose to shift but there are times when a shift needs to happen in transission and grabbing the clutch isn't feasable.

This has already been kind of covered, but maybe I can put it in simpler terms.
When I started clutchless shifting (90% of the time I dont use the clutch now) I found the easiest way to get used to the engines "change point" was to apply gentle upwards pressure to the gear lever. Just about the same pressure as used when changing gears with the clutch. Then reasonably quickly back off the throttle (while maintaining upwards pressure on the gear lever) until it just slips into the next gear.
With practice, you'll be doing it without thinking and wont need to apply pressure to the gear lever until the bike gets to the right revs.

advr4 said:
just don't try to downshift without the clutch, because you need to rev-match to keep the rear wheel from locking up.

You crazy? I don't use the clutch shifting down unless I'm dropping into first (sometimes second depending on speed). You have to be more gentle, but if you roll on a little and nudge the shifter, it'll drop right down and match revs perfect-like. It's great, I have easily gone 20 minutes on a ride through town, in traffic, and whatnot, without taking my left hand off my hip. Caution: clutchless downshifts are worse on the tranny, I think.

Also note: My clutch and tranny both have about 13k miles on them and the shifting is very loose. With throttle opn 100% I can pop up from 3 to 4 for 5 to 6... no blipping, rolling off, clutch, or anything. NOT slamming the shifter, just nudging. Bike doesn't clunk, jump, or anything like that, just goes *snick* and keeps on rolling smoothly. Clutchless is the way to go.

Clutchless downshifting is a quick way to wad your tranny. Read a nice article on this one day and they specifically said, upshifting yes, downshifting is a big no-no. It is hard on something in the tranny, but can't remember what. Do it how you like though, just an FYI

you also gotta make sure youre in the right rpm for your upshift. if youre too low in the range, it will not want to engage smoothly. i clutchless upshift when i'm doing a full throttle run. i use the clutch when i'm just cruising

As a side note, it seems to have taught me better throttle control. When clutch shifting I used to drop the RPMs too far then have to bring them back up before letting out the clutch. It was quick, but audibly noticeable. Now I drop them just enough that the torque is gone and that’s enough to shift, either way, much smoother.

If there is even the potential for damage (which there is), I'd rather use the clutch. It's there for a reason. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

hello,it is not bad if you know what your doin,speed shiftin,only use clutch startin off,and when you stop,like after 1st gear,and your ready to shift into 2nd,gas it up and let off quick and lift up shifter,than wack the gas again,you will feel the power,and smooth gears,i alwasys power shift and never had a problem,fast changin of gears ,faster speeds quick,,freddy

freddybomb007 said:
hello,it is not bad if you know what your doin,speed shiftin,only use clutch startin off,and when you stop,like after 1st gear,and your ready to shift into 2nd,gas it up and let off quick and lift up shifter,than wack the gas again,you will feel the power,and smooth gears,i alwasys power shift and never had a problem,fast changin of gears ,faster speeds quick,,freddy



I think I need a translator. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif

Ghost Rider said:
If there is even the potential for damage (which there is), I'd rather use the clutch. It's there for a reason. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif



true dat!

wow, after reading this thread, i went out and tried it. It felt very weird. lol!

I have a question tho, does the RPM matter for you to shift into gear smoother? I am not forcing it to go into gear, but sometimes it doesn't move at all so I am wondering if you're at the right RPM, it will make it easier to shift.

Matching revs helps a lot.

Piece of advice: don't 'load' the shifter before you change gears. Just a simple click should suffice.

On the track it helps marginally, in my case; but on the street I use the clutch.

I only cluchless shift when i am charging on! any other time i use the clutch
Is it that big an effort to squeeze the lever???

I love clutchless shifting when i am riding. At first it wasn't as smooth until i played with it some more and really began learning my bike better and when it was best to upshift and at what loads.

tough question but i have tried it and i never let off the gas but its call power shifting u do not neeed the clutch to go up but u need it to go down... racers use and do it all the time.. its natural for the bike to go this way and for u not to use the clutch going up but u need it coming down... ask a dealer on his commits and then try it i think its easyer in low gears cause u are still scared and will not go fast...

+1 on that matter.... however on tl1000r ive seen one or two with damaged clutches.... ( wheelin, and clutchless shifting factors there meh thinks)

In my latest motorcycle magazine it talks about "clutchless" up-shifting being a superior method to fast and smooth riding so I just started to try it. In the article, it doesn't mention that you have to engage the clutch at all, they just saw "back off the throttle a little and click up into the next gear."

I've found that that is impossible with my bike. No matter what, I have to pull in the clutch lever "just a little" to do a fast upshift. My question is, is that normal or am I doing something wrong? By utilizing this method, my upshifts are clearly quicker and smoother, but I'm wondering if I should be even engaging that clutch lever at all. F.Y.I. I have an '01 GSXR1K

T.I.A.

If your still having trouble......try and watch exactly what rev your at when you use your clutch....then try it without the clutch. I do it by applying slight pressure on the shifter...then adding the pressure when I wanna switch gears. "PoP ! !" Sometimes it jerks...thats normal. I did this same shit in my car. "no clutch"....."listen to the engine she speaks to you."

I have an '01 1k as well, it's VERY possible, just like everyone has said...you aren't really letting off the gas so much as you are taking the load off the tranny...just "blip" the throttle forward and click the f*cker up...you'll get it. Don't practice it to much or else you may do damage...just get someone to show you and you'll be like OHHHHH!!!! I get it....

If done correctly you shouldn't have to use the clutch at all. I have done many burnouts through third gear without touching the clutch lever. When done correctly it looks and sounds awesome. Have fun with it once you get it down.