I did a search and couldn't find much about this. What do you prefer and why? Are there advantages/disadvantages to either organization?

It all depends on where you live, and where you will be racing. CCS has a much larger race season for us guys in the Northeast, whereas WERA seems to have a bigger presence in the South.

Both are great organizations, both produce some really fast riders, and both have very similar classes. I dont feel one is better than the other really. Go with whichever one has a better race schedule in the area where you want to race.

I guess it'll be CCS then. When it says on the website that once you complete the race school, you can "apply" for a ccs license, does that mean that you just mail in the form and money and then get you license shortly after? Or is there more to it?

Yes, when you complete the approved race school, you will get a certificate of completion. Mail that form in with your license form and your money, and you will get your race license shortly afterward.

Depends on the region. Where are you located?

Washington DC

That's not bad for the WERA SE region. You'd be fine in either org in terms of races close to you.

Southeast tracks might be a lil far? (Barber, Road Atl, Roebling, Tally, Jennings, New Orleans)

2012 WERA Sportsman Series

Northeast/ Mid-Atlantic
4/14-15 Summit Point Raceway, Summit Point, WV-DH,rs,
6/2-3 Summit Point Raceway, Summit Point, WV-rs,
6/7-10 WERA Cycle Jam at Road Atlanta, Braselton, GA
7/20-22 Vintage Motorcycle Days, Mid-Ohio, Lexington, OH-
8/4-5 Virginia International Raceway, Alton, VA-DH,rs,
8/25-26 Nelson Ledges Road Course, Garrettsville, OH-rs,
9/8-9 BeaveRun Motorsports Park, Wampum, PA-DH,rs,
9/22-23 Summit Point Raceway, Summit Point, WV-rs,


North Central
5/5-6 Grattan Raceway Park, Grattan, MI-c,rs,
6/9-10 Blackhawk Farms Raceway, S. Beloit, IL-rs,
7/14-15 Grattan Raceway, Grattan, MI-cc,DH,rs,
7/20-22 Vintage Motorcycle Days, Mid-Ohio, Lexington, OH-
8/25-26 Nelson Ledges Road Course, Garrettsville, OH-rs,
9/8-9 BeaveRun Motorsports Park, Wampum, PA-DH,rs,

DC area would be perfect for CCS racing if you jump in now. First 2 rounds were at Roebling and CMP, but now all the other Mid Atlantic rounds are at Summit Point, VIR and NJMP.

VIR :drool

dont forget about CMRA :shifty

VIR :drool

:stupid

dont forget about CMRA :shifty

Isn't CMRA like a Texas racing org? :dunno

Isn't CMRA like a Texas racing org? :dunno

yea mainly...lots of guys from Oklahoma and Louisiana too though. I do know that the fast CMRA guys give the WERA guys a run for their money when we visit the northern tracks. :shifty Our track surfaces are horrible...and these guys still ride the shit out of it so when they get on something that's actually smooth they tend to ride it harder.

Who's your fast guys? :)

Who's your fast guys? :)

Ben spies started in CMRA and we know where he is
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab244/wuzup76020/ben.jpg
...collen edwards as well.

Ty howard holds all the track records.


several big names actually
http://www.cmraracing.com/halloffame.html

Im sure their are shit tons more in WERA just because it covers a bigger area and has more tracks..but for only having 5 tracks to race on we produce some pretty fast guys :dunno

I know them, I thought we were talking current club members :dunno

I know them, I thought we were talking current club members :dunno

i wouldnt know names :sad
Just from random threads ive read after the've visited on the WERA bored's

hopefully in the next few years i will be one of the "fast" guys :shifty

My goal is CMRA endurance racing..get my lisence in the next month :punk

Endurance is fun! Different but still fun! (Joe did a few races last year, I was part of the crew) :)

Not sure how CMRA came up as a racing org for a guy who lives in Washington DC :dunno

Not sure how CMRA came up as a racing org for a guy who lives in Washington DC :dunno

this is gdc, people are kings of going off on tangents here

:offtopic
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab244/wuzup76020/GDC%20random/Capture-1-1.jpg
http://i868.photobucket.com/albums/ab244/wuzup76020/GDC%20random/lonely.jpg
:thumbup :lol

DC for the WERA NC region? Maybe the Beaverun dates but that's a haul for Grattan or BHF for sure.

Both CCS and WERA are well run clubs. There are subtle differences in the classes, but really it doesnt matter. Do you know people racing in either CCS or WERA? Go where you know people, and it will make life much easier for you.
If you are in DC, CCS has plenty of dates at NJMP, Summit, and VIR. Further, CCS has "better" dates most of the time.
CCS has had better turnout the last few years especially, so there will be more riders of your skill level, whatever that is, to ride with.
Come out to the ASRA/CCS National @ Summit Point of Memorial Day weekend and have a look for yourself.

A few of us from this thread will be at Summit Memorial day weekend so you can meet some of us and have friends to start.

I was looking forward to running WERA since they are building a presence back up in the north central. The biggest reason I did not was Supersport rules. My bike does not qualify since I removed my turn signal switch.

Joe runs superbike, minor technicalities keep him out of super stock ... Even though she has a 100% stock motor.

I was looking forward to running WERA since they are building a presence back up in the north central. The biggest reason I did not was Supersport rules. My bike does not qualify since I removed my turn signal switch.

For WERA I'm pretty sure you can remove all the switches and housings and still be SS legal. I know you can hack the wiring harness to get rid of all the extras so why couldn't you remove the end pieces as well? SS basically means no really built motors. No double bubbles screens or brembo/non-oem master cylinders.

I run fork extenders in the SS class which probably aren't technically legal but I've never seen anyone get upset over it.

A $40 windscreen will determine if you get bumped up a class or not? Interesting...

A $40 windscreen will determine if you get bumped up a class or not? Interesting...

Stock class rules. DB windscreens are not OEM equipment. read the rule book :biggrin :fact

^Yes.

It's kind of a stupid rule but you have to draw the line somewhere as to what class is what. I had my stock screen so this was never an issue.

Below is copied right from the rulebook. I still have a 100 percent stock harness, I just removed the wires from the subharness that goes to the left bar rendering my lights and turn signals inoperable. They probably don't tech this very often but its in the rules and I'm not prepping and driving to a race to be disqualified because the headlight does not work on my bike with race glass.

Lightweight batteries are also illegal in SS FYI.


g) Headlight and tail/brake light housings may be removed. Disconnection must be made at stock connectors. If requested the stock fixture/bulb must be operable, with no modifications, by simply plugging the fixture/bulb into the wiring harness or socket.

^So why not run A superbike and Formula 1? You can run the Heavyweight Solo and the old man class if you're over 40.

^So why not run A superbike and Formula 1? You can run the Heavyweight Solo and the old man class if you're over 40.

I prefer to run 4-7 races per weekend. 3 just isnt enough. I chose to just concentrate on CCS MW.

Even if your bike was SS legal you could only do 4 races max. The think I don't like about CCS MW is it's just BHF basically.

The think I don't like about CCS MW is it's just BHF basically.

Did he mean mid west or middle weight? :scratch

midwest...

A $40 windscreen will determine if you get bumped up a class or not? Interesting...

$40 windscreen......no good, you're in superbike


$1500 titanium exhaust and $1000 Bazzaz ECU w/ traction control and quickshift.......no sweat. :)

I was looking forward to running WERA since they are building a presence back up in the north central. The biggest reason I did not was Supersport rules. My bike does not qualify since I removed my turn signal switch.

You don't have to have the switch on the clip-ons. I remove the switches also. I have 2 start/kill switches and a map-selector switch on the clip-ons, but no switch for lights.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/subsea1975/JuJu.jpg

A $40 windscreen will determine if you get bumped up a class or not? Interesting...

It isnt necessarily "bumping up", it is just a different class. But 99% of the time, it is the same guys that race in the SS classes. People just do the SB classes also to have another race to do.

On my SS legal R6, i do MW and HW Solo races on Saturday, then C-SS, C-SB, B-SS and B-SB on Sunday (and 2-4 practice sessions on Sat. and Sun., depending on how i feel).

As far as the windscreen, it is like somebody else mentioned, "the line has to be drawn somewhere". While i also agree it is silly, it isnt a big deal. Just put the OEM screen (or similar replacement) and go.

with CCS supersport... all they look at is tires and air box. Never said much about wind screens and such. If you plan on running a 600 ... do yourself a favor and run every class you can to maximize your exp. ie starts and pace. Middleweight (Wera C classes) and heavyweight (Wera B classes) ... some race in the unlimited too (not me). I always run the GTU (equals the Wera Solo 20 lap race)

Chris is right. Same folks same bike. I like the Pirelli SS tires better than slicks anyways.

I bought a former WERA Supersport MW legal race bike, but unsure if it will qualify for CCS Racing Supersport MW class. Here are the mods:
07 GSXR 600
Markbilt Supersport Motor build (March 2012)
Traxxion Dynamics Suspension servicing

•Drilled / wired
•520 Conversion
•Keyless ignition
•¼ turn gas cap
•Forks done by Traxxion
•Traxxion extended Showa fork caps
•Penske double clicker shock also worked by Traxxion
•Full Ti Leo Vince
•PCIII and PC Ign Module with Markbilt map
•PC Quick shift in GP pattern
•K&N air filter
•New Wheel Bearings
•Brembo Master Cylinder 19x18
* Goodridge SS lines front
•New Vesrah pads front
•New EBC HH pads rear
•Vortex Clips ons
•Vortex Rear sets
• Woodcraft case and clutch covers
* Radiator fan removed

What Im concerned about:

6.1.2 A. Original equipment wheels, brake calipers, forks, frame, engine, fuel induction system, and swing arm must be used.

does that mean no fork extenders on stock forks? what about fork internals?

6.1.2 B (1.) Aftermarket brake cooling ducts or wind deflectors are prohibited in SuperSport

No double bubbles, right? right.

6.1.2 E. Engine modifications include the following:
(1.) Pistons which are no larger than 1mm over stock size may be used but must be
same compression ratio as the OEM piston.
(2.) Original equipment cylinders must be used.
(3.) Original equipment head, valves, and cams must remain as produced, with the
exception of machining the gasket surface of the cylinder head.
(4.) Original equipment cases, crankshaft, and connecting rods must remain as produced.
(5.) Original equipment transmission gears must be used.
(6.) Carburetor bodies and/or throttle bodies may not be modified, bored, or polished.

I have no idea what is in my SS built motor. It was built by Markbilt, but the only paper work says "ss engine build for $1500 + $1380 in engine parts". I am hoping since its a "supersport build" that itll be legal in CCS SS


All other mods seem to be fine. Any input/ help on if the parts I inquired about are CCS SS legal is much appreciated. Thanks :cheers

You will be fine aside from the windscreen. When was the last time the motor was refreshed? I only ask because I have seen more than a few Markbilt motors pop if they have not been refreshed regularly.

Thanks for the response. The motor was built in March '12 and only run at two or three race weekends since then per the seller. It has not been refreshed as far as I know. I plan on swapping the spark plugs, changing oil & filter, and checking valve clearances if I can figure it out before my first track weekend. The guy I bought it from said to take it to Tim Bemisderfer for any work I need done on it. Is he a reputable guy? Do you think it needs to be refreshed before this track season starts?

Thanks :cheers

Dont know if it matters as far as reliability goes but runs on pump gas and makes approx 115 per the eddie current dyno chart he gave me. Also has an auto APE cam chain tensioner. The guy said it was a pretty mild build and would be smart to swap the auto cam chain tensioner for a manual one eventually.

does that mean no fork extenders on stock forks? what about fork internals?

Extenders are fine. You need to run stock externals, but internals can be replaced.

No double bubbles, right? right.

To my knowledge, the double bubbles were legal in CCS, but not in WERA. I wouldn't take chances with something like that, though.

Tim is a great guy, works out of Washington Cycle Works I think, or is affiliated with them somehow.

As for your motor, I have no idea if you should refresh it or not. 115 on a SS build seems kinda low, as most SS builds are in the 120+ range, and SB builds in the 130+ range. My stock motor 600 made 112 on Markbilt's dyno, fyi.

Yeah thats what I keep hearing, that its an extremely mild build and 115 is a low HP for a true SS build. I dont know if it was a bad dyno run or what. I dont really care about the HP as all the motor work was done on the sellers dime and Im not at the point where extra HP is going to make or break a race for me. IMO, despite the low HP, it at least means the motor was "rebuilt/refreshed" in 2012. :dunno. I was more focused on the fact I picked up a great bike with a ton of goodies already on it for under $4000 from a really good guy.

If I run into issue Ill be sure to give Tim a call. :cheers


Sounds as though everything is SS legal! Need to get a few trackdays under my belt this year, see where I end up group wise, run a GP Moto race, and if ALL that goes well, Im going to race CCS. Im shooting for my first race to either be the first round of Summit in May or first round of VIR in June. It all depends on how fast I progress at the trackdays.


Thanks for the help guys. Always appreciated :cheers

I was looking forward to running WERA since they are building a presence back up in the north central. The biggest reason I did not was Supersport rules. My bike does not qualify since I removed my turn signal switch.

BS
You can run ss without the switch pod.

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Double bubbles are wera legal now too I think I read.

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As long as you don't cut up the harness it is ok. All the wiring for lights has to be unplugged at a factory connector. You can remove the light switch and also the headlight harness.

Yup. You can also cut the switch pod sub harness ON THE SWITCH SIDE to keep the clutch switch if you want. You would just technically want to keep a complete in tact switch assy in your spares box to be by the rules... but nobody does. You can not cut the OEM main harness. On Late model GSXRs the headlight harness is also the gauge cluster harness, so you cant modify it either really. All OEM plugs have to be there and functional on the main harness. lights, kickstand plug etc. They can be modified or removed outside the main harness, but technically you are supposed tohave all of it available should tech want it........ I have never seen that enforced nor have I seen anyone actually have the lights and all available in their trailer.

I bought a former WERA Supersport MW legal race bike, but unsure if it will qualify for CCS Racing Supersport MW class. Here are the mods:
07 GSXR 600
Markbilt Supersport Motor build (March 2012)
Traxxion Dynamics Suspension servicing

•Drilled / wired
•520 Conversion
•Keyless ignition
•¼ turn gas cap
•Forks done by Traxxion
•Traxxion extended Showa fork caps
•Penske double clicker shock also worked by Traxxion
•Full Ti Leo Vince
•PCIII and PC Ign Module with Markbilt map
•PC Quick shift in GP pattern
•K&N air filter
•New Wheel Bearings
•Brembo Master Cylinder 19x18
* Goodridge SS lines front
•New Vesrah pads front
•New EBC HH pads rear
•Vortex Clips ons
•Vortex Rear sets
• Woodcraft case and clutch covers
* Radiator fan removed

What Im concerned about:



does that mean no fork extenders on stock forks? what about fork internals?



No double bubbles, right? right.



I have no idea what is in my SS built motor. It was built by Markbilt, but the only paper work says "ss engine build for $1500 + $1380 in engine parts". I am hoping since its a "supersport build" that itll be legal in CCS SS


All other mods seem to be fine. Any input/ help on if the parts I inquired about are CCS SS legal is much appreciated. Thanks :cheers

Everything is fine except the MC. In WERA, you can run fork extenders, you cant run an aftermarket MC.

Double Bubble windscreens are also LEGAL in SS as of 2013.

Is keyless ignition legal in SS? :dunno

Is keyless ignition legal in SS? :dunno

I think so as long as it is made at an OEM connector and can be hooked back up. Not positive though

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Is keyless ignition legal in SS? :dunno

If you have to re-wire the harness to do it, no. They do allow the use of factory "kit" harnesses though which can sometimes eliminate the ignition. I don't know if Suzuki offers one like Kawasaki or not though.

Personally, I would not complain or protest, as long as you are not gaining an advantage. Things like carbon fiber wheels, brake master cylinders and engine builds I can see being a problem, and if you read the rules you know you are cheating. But some things I don't feel are a big issue that may not be legal.

I want to know because I want to have a keyless for the CBR.

If it doesn't say you can do it you can't. :dunno

Personally, I would not complain or protest, as long as you are not gaining an advantage. Things like carbon fiber wheels, brake master cylinders and engine builds I can see being a problem, and if you read the rules you know you are cheating. But some things I don't feel are a big issue that may not be legal.

I want to know because I want to have a keyless for the CBR.

If it doesn't say you can do it you can't. :dunno

Rules are rules IMO. If anyone would protest or not.

I compare it to a dollar bill. Sure a dollar is not much and wont hurt me to lose it, but if you take it without asking it is still stealing.

Cheating is cheating. No matter how small. Don't be that guy

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Keyless ignition is ok in SS.

Sometimes people put too much weight in the "stock" in WERA SuperStock. Truth be told, "SuperSport" should be used instead. The SS-legal bikes are far from stock.

Here is a generic breakdown of the rulebook in laymans terms.

All bolts on parts - OK (exhaust, filter, Quickshifter, rearsets, damper, clip-ons, levers, etc).
Electronic changes - OK (Bazzaz/Power Commander, Kit ECU and Harness, keyless ignition)
Minor brake upgrades - OK (SS lines, pads, rear rotor machined)...aftermarket MC's not allowed. front rotors must stay OEM.
Suspension upgrades - OK (aftermarket shocks, cartridge kits, fork extensions)...aftermarket linkage and triples arent allowed.
Motor Builds - OK (must stay at OEM displacement)
Chain/Sprocket changes - OK
Double Bubble screens - OK
Slicks are allowed in every class EXCEPT C/600-SS.
Race Fuel - OK
Data Logging - OK

Frame - OEM
Wheels - OEM
Gas tank - OEM
Subframe - OEM
Swingarm - OEM
Clutch - OEM

"OEM" means it must be original on THAT bike in THAT year. You can't take the OEM calipers and MC from an R6 and put them on a Gixxer, you cant take the calipers from a 2012 Gixxer and put them on a 2004 Gixxer, you cant take the Slipper from a 2013 675 and put it in a 2012 675, so on and so forth.

So for the purposes of SS, the better bike you get from the factory, the better off you are (in terms of higher spec equipment). An RSV4-Factory is legal in SS, but you cant take the wheels from an RSV4-Factory and put them on an RSV4-R and remain legal for SS because THOSE wheels arent OEM on THAT bike.

The rulebook allows for A LOT more than what some people think. Trust me, if you build something to the extent of the rulebook, you can easily get $25k deep in a SS legal 600cc bike.

For 99% of us, that breakdown is what we need to know. But i still suggest reading the rulebook; all of this is off the top of my head. Dont show up at Tech with a justification of "Well, Broome said....". :lol

great info. Thanks :cheers Bummed I have to swap out my Brembo. I was looking forward to using that thing. Ill be sure to use the Broome excuse if something doesnt pass tech...:shifty

add... Round (not wave) ebc rotors are ok'd as "OEM replacements" in ss.
I don't think kit harness is OK in ss as theyndont have provisions for the lights to plug in.
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add... Round (not wave) ebc rotors are ok'd as "OEM replacements" in ss.
I don't think kit harness is OK in ss as theyndont have provisions for the lights to plug in.
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Hmmm, I think that lights rule is written for the point that you can't re-wire/cut your existing harness. I don't think it applies to the kit harnesses because of the rule:
"Kit wiring harnesses from the OEM for the machine may be used in place of the stock wiring harness. Aftermarket harnesses or home made harnesses are not allowed. Stock harnesses may not be modified in any way other than as listed above."

Hmmm, I think that lights rule is written for the point that you can't re-wire/cut your existing harness. I don't think it applies to the kit harnesses because of the rule:
"Kit wiring harnesses from the OEM for the machine may be used in place of the stock wiring harness. Aftermarket harnesses or home made harnesses are not allowed. Stock harnesses may not be modified in any way other than as listed above."

Is that in ss rules? I'd have to go back and read again. And if so I stand corrected

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Is that in ss rules? I'd have to go back and read again. And if so I stand corrected

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It is.

Yeah, that is why i used the Kit Harness from Yamaha and Triumph.

Is there a significant difference in the talent pool of riders in CCS vs. WERA? Also, which club organization in the US typically produces more pro riders?

I would say more AMA pro racers come out of the WERA ranks. Although there are quite a few AMA Pros that I've seen in the CCS paddock as well.