Have a 2001 Mazda Tribute with 3.0l V6 with a 4 speed auto tranny & 105,000miles on the clocks now. The Tribute is basically a rebadged Ford Escape so uses the same engine/gearbox combo. The gearbox is a Frod CD4E which is apparently notorious for getting stuck in gear (which is a $4000 repair) if you’re unlucky enough to get a bad one or if it’s been abused. Obviously we don’t want that so I’m trying to do some preventative maintenance to avoid such anguish which will include a fluid & filter change, & does of Auto Transmission additive & possibly a Transmission Cooler as I plan to tow some bikes in the near future.

Have invested plenty in these wheels (LPG conversion, cargo barrier, servicing, etc.) & she’s cheap as chips to run on the LPG - $40 for 300miles. I am dead happy with this rig besides the little nagging doubt that something MAY go wrong with the gearbox. Anything else I wouldn’t really care as I could have a go myself at fixing it but the gearbox is a specialist job. From everything I’ve read they all seem to pop between 30-60,000 miles so chances are I have a good one. It shifts fine, doesn’t make any bogey noises & seems to be in PWO – I’m just thinking of the tranny cooler as a cheap form of insurance. Seeing as I only do about 6,000 miles a year & will probably on being towing 20 times a year max the risk is marginal in my opinion.

Soooooo….. I’m just trying to find out if a tranny cooler is a good idea for this car/application? As I’ve said before I haven’t much experience with auto boxes so don’t know if I should install one. I’ll be towing from 500 – 1000kg (1000 – 2500lbs) normally which is within the cars towing specifications however I’m nervous about this damn weak CD4E gearbox. Obviously I know overheating the ATF fluid is a bad thing but is overcooling it bad too? What happens in the other extreme situation when you are not towing & cruising under light load on a cold winters day (Australian Winter – not USA!)?

I would probably try & install the tranny cooler behind the car radiator as to not affect my A/C condenser or engine cooling system. This shouldn’t offer the cooler its full efficiency to be realised so will only knock 10 – 20oC off the ATF internal temp. Is it critical to get the size of the cooler correct for you application or is bigger better?

What I might do, now that I thinking about it, is install a manual bypass valve on the tranny cooler piping so I can manually bring it in/out of operation when I need it. This would give me the best of both world IMHO. We use this type of setup all the time with heating/coil coils & heat exchangers in the HVAC industry so no reason to see why it would work in this application. If you wanted to be really fancy you could install a 3-Port modulation valve & a temperature sensor that will modulate the bypass valve so that it opens after the tranny oil temp goes above a certain setpoint. Would be nice but it obviously more expensive & less reliable than a manual setup. It’s not like they’re expensive either. $100 should see you right easily if you do the install yourself & seeing as I have to change the ATF oil anyways due to it being the servicing schedule time for it, it seems a no brainer to me (as long as there are no detrimental side effects of course!)

See ATF oil change post here http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5344971#post5344971

Anyone got any experience in these matters?

i ran a hayden 4101 trans cooler on my old import than towed my bike to trackdays. on many trucks with tow pkgs, they always have a trans cooler. so yes, get one, and dont worry about bypassing it when not in use

i ran a hayden 4101 trans cooler on my old import than towed my bike to trackdays. on many trucks with tow pkgs, they always have a trans cooler. so yes, get one, and dont worry about bypassing it when not in use

qft

I spent a good amount of time interning with powertrain cooling design teams: Yes, yes and holy shit yes. Definitely get one. Heat KILLS transmissions. With a small vehicle like that, which is underpowered, your trans will be gear hunting and even worse, have the converter unlocked a lot (if not always- it wouldn't surprise me if the clutch packs in the TC were already toast given it's 10yrs old an it's already unlocked 24/7). Those two things really build up heat, and the extra power/tq it's transferring makes it a killer combination.

Get one like this ("pass through heat exchanger"):
http://formula.bambeezer.com/cooler1.jpg
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/1679.jpg


And not one like this ("tube and fin"):
http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Images/ProductPages/ultra-cool-transmission-cooler.jpg
http://www.alamomotorsports.com/pmc/CatImages/PG05-C1.gif



Don't put it behind the condenser. You're going to need it most in the summer, which is when you're using your AC! Dont worry about over-cooling it. Just let the car warm up in the winter (as you should regardless).

The order should be transmission-----> cooler in the radiator----> aux trans cooler ---> transmission.

Try to use the least amount of hose possible (don't have 3 ft of slack- a little is good, and desirable) and no kinks and stuff in it. Make it clean as possible to minimize pressure loss of the fluid.

Don't forget to add a little bit of trans fluid for the extra volume of the cooler and hoses. If you regularly change the trans fluid and filter, keep that up. If you don't, then don't start now.




PM me if you have any questions- I rarely check this forum.

You are just the man I need to speak to so! Thanks for the detailed reply. I’ll put this up on the boards instead of PM’ing you if that’s ok so maybe others can benefit from it.

I bought the car from a mate who put about 40k miles up on here (mostly around the city but he did one big stink pulling 3 bikes on a 1500 mile round trip) so I kind of know her history.

Can you go into more detail about the TC locking/un-locking? I have no manual control of it from what I know unless the OD On/Off button also locks the TC. Otherwise it’s completely automatic & with this car it seems to be unlocked all the time up to about 40mph. Then it settles in 4th & goes into overdrive until you come up against a decent hill where she’ll slip back a gear. The car does mostly city driving so year the TC is going most of the time & it’s quite hilly in Melbourne . I’ve read that the newer Escape/Tribute have a more efficient TC & earlier shift points/TC lock-up to improving the gas mileage (which is bad lets be honest here – 20mpg highway & 16mpg city). A more efficient TC would also mean a cooler running TC in my eyes as efficiency & heat generation are normally inversely related. Maybe that tranny ECU & TC could be retrofitted to my rig but that’s a lot of work & only if my tranny decides to crap itself.

I syphoned a little bit of ATF from the filler tube the other day. Its dark red in a clear jar but looks a lighter, pinkish shade when put on white paper. You can definitely see some black (oxidation I assume) within the fluid. I’ll replace the ATF & filter now of course as it’s time but just to clarify are you saying don’t bother regularly replacing the fluid as the tranny is past it’s best now anyways? I wont be doing a lot of mileage on it in any case so as long as it holds up another 30k miles I’ll be happy. Is there some sort of flush additive you should use before draining the fluid like you would with a flush on an old engine with heavily contaminated oil?

I already bought one of the ‘Pass Through’ type of cooler which is about 10” x 10”. I will plumb it the way you advised now after getting your reassurance. It never gets really cold here (maybe 35oF at the absolute minimum) so overcooling should be a worry then. I cant see how overcooling could be an issue unless the lower oil viscosity will affect shift points or be more work to the tranny from pumping losses, etc. I checked the car quickly yesterday & it already has so kind of factory oil cooler (30” x 5”) fitted in front of the bottom of the condenser. I cant see where the plumbing is going because some plastic under-guards are in the way but it may be a factory tranny cooler? The car is fitted with a tow bar & electrical socket, side skirts, headlight protectors & a sunroof which is all part of a ‘Traveller’ package which I believe was specifically suited for towing. However I cant get any info off the net on the oil cooler except to say that it is an additional oil cooler. It might be for engine oil for all I know just like a Suzuki GSXR1000 oil cooler. (See pics below)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v362/kenkdit22/Oz/02102011.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v362/kenkdit22/Oz/02102011001.jpg

If this turns out to be a factory fitted tranny cooler would you recommend fitting another cooler in series with it? Is it possible for the coolers to block & lose efficiency with age? I was thinking of installing an oil temp sensor too but that may be over kill!

Also if you are knowable about AT fluid I really like to know your views on the other post I posted regarding the newer Mercon V fluid vs old Mercon & Dexron 3. (See my original post for link)

Cheers Mate!

if you already have one, it's probably just fine. You can add another if you're feeling ambitious, or just replace that one with a much bigger one.

MAKE sure to use the correct fluid for the trans !!! None of this universal crap !!
It won't hurt that much to buy the fluid at the dealer !!

Been doing a bit of research & apparently the car does come with a transmission oil cooler if you have the $350 optional towing package.

My car has a tow bar/eye, electrical connector & what appears to be a tranny cooler. Maybe I lucked out & bought a car with a tranny cooler after all! Could well be the reason that the gearbox still appears to be working fine after 100k miles.

Am goning to replace the existing tranny ATF with fully syntethic fluid to be extra safe. Its going to be 'Castrol Automatic Transmax Z' which is supposedly suitable for 'extreme conditions' which includes towing & will reduce oil operating temps by 20oC compared to mineral oils.


Castrol Transmax Z Specs
http://luckyres.ru/images//Castrol/Castrol_Transmax_Z_cat.pdf
'Castrol Transmax Z has proved most suitable in severe service applications where high temperatures have reduced transmission life. Castrol Transmax Z has been shown to reduce automatic transmission fluid temperatures by up to 20oC in severe duty applications'

================================================== ===========

2001 Mazda Tribute Specs - 2001 3.0l V6 4WD
PERFORMANCE
EPA Fuel Economy - miles per gallon
city / highway / observed 18 / 24 / 20
0 to 60 mph 8.9 sec
Towing capacity 3,500 lbs with towing
package
Coefficient of Drag (cd) 0.411

OPTIONS AND CHARGES
ABS with side airbags $ 495
Luxury Package - includes: premium audio package,
power sliding glass moonroof $ 1,090
Towing Package - includes: Class II towing preparation,
trailer hitch receiver with 3500-lb capacity, engine oil cooler,
wiring harness $ 350

I spent a good amount of time interning with powertrain cooling design teams: Yes, yes and holy shit yes. Definitely get one. Heat KILLS transmissions. With a small vehicle like that, which is underpowered, your trans will be gear hunting and even worse, have the converter unlocked a lot (if not always- it wouldn't surprise me if the clutch packs in the TC were already toast given it's 10yrs old an it's already unlocked 24/7). Those two things really build up heat, and the extra power/tq it's transferring makes it a killer combination.

Get one like this ("pass through heat exchanger"):
http://formula.bambeezer.com/cooler1.jpg
http://www.bulkpart.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000002/1679.jpg


And not one like this ("tube and fin"):
http://www.haydenauto.com/upload/HaydenAuto/Images/ProductPages/ultra-cool-transmission-cooler.jpg
http://www.alamomotorsports.com/pmc/CatImages/PG05-C1.gif



Don't put it behind the condenser. You're going to need it most in the summer, which is when you're using your AC! Dont worry about over-cooling it. Just let the car warm up in the winter (as you should regardless).

The order should be transmission-----> cooler in the radiator----> aux trans cooler ---> transmission.

Try to use the least amount of hose possible (don't have 3 ft of slack- a little is good, and desirable) and no kinks and stuff in it. Make it clean as possible to minimize pressure loss of the fluid.

Don't forget to add a little bit of trans fluid for the extra volume of the cooler and hoses. If you regularly change the trans fluid and filter, keep that up. If you don't, then don't start now.




PM me if you have any questions- I rarely check this forum.

I agree with what he said for the most part, except for what is highlighted in red.

One of the reasons that factory transmission coolers are in radiator is to warm the trans fluid as well as cool it, depending on the needs. The engine heats up a lot faster so running the fluid through the radiator will help it get up to operating temperature faster.

All transmissions have a different optimal operating temp. Over cooling can be almost just as bad as over heating. Your best bet would be to install a trans temp gauge, preferably in the line that feeds back into the pan, or in the pan itself, then play around with the position of the cooler to keep the trans in the optimal temp range while towing and in colder temps.

Usually 175-200 degrees is the optimum temps.

I agree with what he said for the most part, except for what is highlighted in red.

One of the reasons that factory transmission coolers are in radiator is to warm the trans fluid as well as cool it, depending on the needs. The engine heats up a lot faster so running the fluid through the radiator will help it get up to operating temperature faster.

All transmissions have a different optimal operating temp. Over cooling can be almost just as bad as over heating. Your best bet would be to install a trans temp gauge, preferably in the line that feeds back into the pan, or in the pan itself, then play around with the position of the cooler to keep the trans in the optimal temp range while towing and in colder temps.

Usually 175-200 degrees is the optimum temps.


I was thinking as much regarding the temperature range of the ATF & am going to install a thermostatic bypass valve for the tranny oil cooler. The valve bypasses the oil cooler below 70oC (160F) & opens fully by 80oC (175F) thus avoiding any nasty issues due to cold tranny fluid & should keep the fluid at about 80oC (175F). Also the bypass flows 10% of the fluid through the oil cooler as a minimum to avoid air bubbles, thermal shock & blockages.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?VISuperSize&item=120791409480
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120791409480?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1467wt_698
http://www.thefind.com/cars/info-oil-cooler-bypass-valve#page=1&local=0

AM looking into an oil temp sensor/gauge now too...
http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/release.asp?NewsId=12031

May also look into the workshop manual & see what Mazda/Ford have already installed (I know there is some sort of temp sensor to monitor the 4WD operation temps). Might be able to utilise a stock sensor if its in the right place & has the right resistance