While at the gym I can't help but notice the vastly different ways people lift... which brings me to my question.

When using dumbells to do things like bench, incline bench, military press, curls and tricep extensions how much range of motion is proper? I know this is open to opinion much like the whole 'Ass to Ankles" Squat debate but I'm curious as to what a few of you EXPERTS think. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I've always used a very long range of motion with these exercises. For example, when doing DB Flat Bench I tend to let the weight come ALL the way down while I see others(typically the really BIG guys...) use a much shorter range of motion. Why? Is this a safety issue once the weight starts getting pretty heavy?

I guess I'm curious if they are shorting themselves the benefit of the extra motion or if I'm just plain overdoing it and risking injury. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Whaddayasay? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Very good question, I've often wondered that myself

Well, it's difficult to put a generalization on every exercise so I'll use some specific exercises as examples.

Let's take the bench press. The primary reason people do the bench press exercise is to build the chest. However, when you do this exercise, you're using many muscles, some more than others.

The primaries would be the chest, anterior deltoid (front) and triceps. Minors would be your forearms, abs for stabilization and many smaller muscles to hold your arm in the position you want it to be.

Some stop on the downward motion when their upper arms are parallel with the floor. This is for two reasons. First, when you go beyond that area, you start to work the front delts more than the chest. Since the main reason for this movement is to build chest, they stop there and conserve energy better suited for another chest press. The other reason is that when doing very heavy weights, the chest can handle it easily while the shoulder, being a shallow socket is very susceptible to injury. You're at greater risk for injury beyond that point. If the person acts like they don't know what the hell they're doing, they may just be trying to "cheat" the exercise though.

The other side of it is that bringing it all the way down gives the full range of motion, incorporating the most muscles and giving a full stretch.

So basically, the most range of motion is usually a good thing but sometimes it can be dangerous, other times not.

Ass to ankles is similar. You're putting much more strain on yourself. This is good and bad. The added strain means the muscles have to work harder meaning more results and better workout. It also means more wear and tear and more chance of injury. You really need to know your body and your limits and a good understanding of physiology.

Knowing when one muscle stops and the other takes over will help you decide what you want to do.

For instance, with the tricep cable press, you'll never see me bring my forearm beyond parallel with the floor. Some people bring it all the way back up to their shoulders but it's no longer putting the majority of the pressure on your triceps at that point.

Other things though, like bicep curls, really don't have a danger area. You can let them all the way down and bring them all the way up. So it's really an individual exercise judgement call.

Thanks for the in-depth reply Sicshift... seems we're pretty much on the same page on this subject. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

I guess I just find it interesting (and often times very amusing...) the different ways people perform excercises. It cracks me up to see the little skinny guy with no arms trying desperately to do tricep extensions with 80lbs and thus he ends up using his ENTIRE body to complete them. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif On the same token, it's weird to see the big fuggers doing incline presses with 80 pounders but only moving the wieght about 6 inches... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif

I think I'll keep up the very full range of motion as long as I don't overload myself... except for things like tri's. No reason to go past let the weight all the way upl like you said. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif In terms of DB flat bench I enjoy the stretch from bringing the weight ALL the way down. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

I was also kinda curious to read oldgixxer's take on this.... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wait.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

you might also see bigger guys doing partial reps. It's usually to really focus on the peak of the contraction.

SicShift said:
you might also see bigger guys doing partial reps. It's usually to really focus on the peak of the contraction.



I guess that makes sense... it just seems weird to see it. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif

Hell, I was watching one of these guys today and he's DB Flat Benching 45's. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif Hell, I do 70's and 80's... and I'm TINY compared to him. It's just weird to see the different ways people lift. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

SicShift said:
Well, it's difficult to put a generalization on every exercise so I'll use some specific exercises as examples.

Let's take the bench press. The primary reason people do the bench press exercise is to build the chest. However, when you do this exercise, you're using many muscles, some more than others.

The primaries would be the chest, anterior deltoid (front) and triceps. Minors would be your forearms, abs for stabilization and many smaller muscles to hold your arm in the position you want it to be.

Some stop on the downward motion when their upper arms are parallel with the floor. This is for two reasons. First, when you go beyond that area, you start to work the front delts more than the chest. Since the main reason for this movement is to build chest, they stop there and conserve energy better suited for another chest press. The other reason is that when doing very heavy weights, the chest can handle it easily while the shoulder, being a shallow socket is very susceptible to injury. You're at greater risk for injury beyond that point. If the person acts like they don't know what the hell they're doing, they may just be trying to "cheat" the exercise though.

The other side of it is that bringing it all the way down gives the full range of motion, incorporating the most muscles and giving a full stretch.

So basically, the most range of motion is usually a good thing but sometimes it can be dangerous, other times not.

Ass to ankles is similar. You're putting much more strain on yourself. This is good and bad. The added strain means the muscles have to work harder meaning more results and better workout. It also means more wear and tear and more chance of injury. You really need to know your body and your limits and a good understanding of physiology.

Knowing when one muscle stops and the other takes over will help you decide what you want to do.

For instance, with the tricep cable press, you'll never see me bring my forearm beyond parallel with the floor. Some people bring it all the way back up to their shoulders but it's no longer putting the majority of the pressure on your triceps at that point.

Other things though, like bicep curls, really don't have a danger area. You can let them all the way down and bring them all the way up. So it's really an individual exercise judgement call.



http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/applause.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif Well put Sic.... unless there is a reason why someone can not get a full range of motiom (i.e. injury, current or previous) i am a firm believer in a full range of motion. You just have to make sure they are starting light, and working their way up.

im one of those guys that does bench press that doesnt bring the bar all the way down to my chest. i stop about 3-4 inches off of my chest because of my shoulders. I have never had a serious shoulder injury but they both pop internally with certain motions and exercises. i find its too much for my shoulders to go all the way down on bench. then there are other exercises like incline db press that i can get the weights lower just because of my positioning. I personally feel that bringing the bar down 3-4" off your chest and being able to control the weight with a pause then back up is far better then the guys bringing the weight down fast and then bouncing it off of your chest like some folks http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif

Fiddy_Ryder said:
I personally feel that bringing the bar down 3-4" off your chest and being able to control the weight with a pause then back up is far better then the guys bringing the weight down fast and then bouncing it off of your chest like some folks http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif



Agreed. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif I think form and weight control is very, very important... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

I see a lot of people bounce weight off there chest and think they can do that.

I use to do powerlifting meets in HS and its amazing how much less people actually bench in those. Cause you have to bring the wieght down slowly, stop/pause for a second on your chest then push back up for the weight to count..

Just curious I didnt read the whole post, but when you guys are saying full range of motion your not talking about locking out your elbows, say in the bench press at the top are you???
olly

Just a few things...
Chest, I come all the way down to my chest and back up. I try not to bounce the bar off my chest though.
Incline Chest DB - I love bringing back the DB as far as I can because I like the feel of my chest stretching. (thats just me)
Tricep pulldowns - I use as much range as I can except I keep my back straight and don't hunch over, and most importantly keep my elbows glued to my sides.
Military press - I used to bring the dumbells down far but I was instructed years ago to only bring the dumbells grips parellel to my ears. So I have done that ever since.

Finally - You know that little area of range when you are pushing weight that 1/2 way through your range you can't push anymore, we call it 'the hole'. Its the one spot where you get stuck while pushing, and with a little help you get past it. Your stuck in a hole http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Some guys, who are working on strengthening, strictly work on that area, 'the hole' It helps them strengthen their range. so they only lift about 6 inches. I don't reccomend it though
But like someone else said, They may have just been trying to peak their muscles

Great explanation PHISH. Thanks. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/applause.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

DB's are typically used for chest to get a GREATER range of motion then w/ a bar.The bar will stop at your chest,when it physically touches it and cannot be lowered any further,ending your stretch/range.
With a dumbell,you can bring the weight BELOW your chest as there is nothing obstructing it's range of motion.

And as already stated,unless you have an injury preventing you,you should always do a rep w/ a complete range of motion.Unless your specialized training as some BB's and powerlifters do to break past a sticking point.

Quig,you should concentrate on the contraction at the top of the rep.Holding and squeezing for a 1 count will give you that little extra edge in gaining mass.Who cares about how much weight someone can lift,it's all relavent.I always make the most out of the weight I'm using and get a super hard contraction at the end of the rep.Thats why you saw the big guy with the 45's.Doing this will make your muscle dramatically harder over time http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

oldgixxer said:
Quig,you should concentrate on the contraction at the top of the rep.Holding and squeezing for a 1 count will give you that little extra edge in gaining mass.Who cares about how much weight someone can lift,it's all relavent.I always make the most out of the weight I'm using and get a super hard contraction at the end of the rep.Thats why you saw the big guy with the 45's.Doing this will make your muscle dramatically harder over time http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif



Sounds like I'm heading in the right direction. I definately use the extra range of motion with the DB's and enjoy the stretch they offer. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

I hadn't thought about really holding a rep at the top. I think I'll start focusing on that a bit instead of trying so hard to do more weight. I'm not a big guy but right now I'm experiencing pretty solid gains and I can't help but get excited about the extra weight I'm becoming proficient at handling. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Believe me, I know that the big guy doing the 45's was using a different strategy than I. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Progress feels good. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

Thanks! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Quig,I just re-read my post.I hope it didn't sound as if I was putting you down or anything,you should definitely strive for higher weight.Just wanted to point out that it's not the most important part and you can actually make lighter weight's work to your advantage if needed.You know what I mean http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

oldgixxer said:
Quig,I just re-read my post.I hope it didn't sound as if I was putting you down or anything,you should definitely strive for higher weight.Just wanted to point out that it's not the most important part and you can actually make lighter weight's work to your advantage if needed.You know what I mean http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif



No, I didn't take it that way at all... no worries. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

I am a qualified fitness instructor with additional qualifications to deal with cardiac and patients referred form their doctors for exercise. Full range of motion is usually the way to go unless you have an injury or joint/muscular problem. Competative body-builders may do it differently to hit certain parts of the muscles, but for most others anything other than full ROM is just to make the exercise easier so as to use a bigger weight and look the big man. Of course anyone with a professional qualification will recognise this. Classic example is the dumbell pec fly.
To sum up - slow and controlled with full ROM.

The Hairy Scrote said:
I am a qualified fitness instructor with additional qualifications to deal with cardiac and patients referred form their doctors for exercise. Full range of motion is usually the way to go unless you have an injury or joint/muscular problem. Competative body-builders may do it differently to hit certain parts of the muscles, but for most others anything other than full ROM is just to make the exercise easier so as to use a bigger weight and look the big man. Of course anyone with a professional qualification will recognise this. Classic example is the dumbell pec fly.
To sum up - slow and controlled with full ROM.



Well put. The only thing I'll add is that it can be beneficial to do partial reps at the end of a set when you're too fatigued to complete another full rep. It's a tried, tested and true technique for breaking through plateaus.

Yes, that'll work as will pre-exhaust where on failing you immediately lower the weight and do more reps. This can be repeated several times. It's painfull and should only be tried by an experienced trainer preferably with a spotter but will yield great results. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif