ok track junkies...this is for you.

when talking about bp,people like keith code talk about weighting the OUTSIDE peg during turns.

but the guys from ride smart talk about weighting the inside peg to help guide the bike in turns, to help steer the bike with your lower body so you can help free up your upper body and relax.

these are two different schools of thought. what do you guys do? and what do you feel are the pros and cons of both?

i know a few of you guys are instructors...please discuss! :punk


here is the video for reference... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uylOooG64tQ&feature=related

Unless you are running at or near expert race pace it isnt really going to matter.

But I weigh the outside peg to hook up the rear better, and I steer with my hands, not the inside pegs.

Weighting the outside peg can be anything from VERY difficult to impossible depending on your individual style. I have a superbike style of riding where I am far off the bike and keep it stood up. I weight the inside peg for turn in then try to ease up a bit. But I am so far off the bike depending on the turn, there is NO WAY mid corner I can put any appreciable weight on the outside. Now once I really start to stand the bike up and get on the gas that is a diff story. I do then weight the outside peg as I really start to get on the gas.

Unless you are running at or near expert race pace it isnt really going to matter.

Of course it matters. Finding your groove and good habits is a good thing no matter what level of riding.


...I weight the inside peg for turn in then try to ease up a bit....Now once I really start to stand the bike up and get on the gas that is a diff story. I do then weight the outside peg as I really start to get on the gas.

This is what I do as well. Putting weight on the inside peg is really just to help get the bike initially turned in. Once leaned over, do not try to continually put extra weight on the inside peg besides what your body is already doing. Once in the turn you really should be just a passenger. Once on exit and as you begin you throttle and stand the bike up put more weight on the outside peg. Notice that these are two completely different parts of the corner.

I never understood how you could weight the outside peg if you are hanging off from the inside. I can grip with my outside thigh but going into a turn I don't understand how you could position yourself any other way.

Code's new Twist of the Wrist II DVD talks about this.

Code stirs up lot's of debate with other guru's over some of the stuff he says.

I have so many bad habits to work on I need another 2 life times to get them squared away but I still have fun at the track.

I never understood how you could weight the outside peg if you are hanging off from the inside. I can grip with my outside thigh but going into a turn I don't understand how you could position yourself any other way.

I think he might be talking about putting weight on the outside peg to push ur body to lean into the turn...? i duno

I never understood how you could weight the outside peg if you are hanging off from the inside. I can grip with my outside thigh but going into a turn I don't understand how you could position yourself any other way.

I see it as the opposite.

If I am hanging off to the left, my right leg is holding me on the bike. If you are holding yourself up with the left leg, you are either crashing or holding on with your arms. I dont see how you could put a lot of weight on the inside peg without pushing the front.

My inner thighs get torched at the track from riding like this. But its so much easier to steer, apply throttle smoothly, and correct lines mid corner if you are not gripping onto the bike with your arms.

Neither.

Weighting the inside to initiate the turn is what I do.

But once in the corner, if you are weighting the inside peg, you are asking to crash, and probably using poor body position.


The way I teach it, and the way I do it si mid corner the outside heel, calf and knee are firmly in contact with the bike. I would not call that weighting the outside peg, but putting my weight to the outside leg I guess. I am not literally pressing on teh outside peg at all. I could theoretically lift my inside foot off the peg though if I wanted to. All my weight is supported by my ass on the seat and outside leg into the tank. I could also let go of the bars because of this, and I show it in my classes. I can transfer my body from one side of the bike, without touching the bars.

If you weight the inside peg mid corner, the forces you are putting are horizontal to the ground basically, and can cause the bike to push mid corner.

And handle bars are for steering, and convenient places to put controls. They are NOT for holding on to. That is what the knee pockets on the tank are for.

Neither.

Weighting the inside to initiate the turn is what I do.

But once in the corner, if you are weighting the inside peg, you are asking to crash, and probably using poor body position.


The way I teach it, and the way I do it si mid corner the outside heel, calf and knee are firmly in contact with the bike. I would not call that weighting the outside peg, but putting my weight to the outside leg I guess. I am not literally pressing on teh outside peg at all. I could theoretically lift my inside foot off the peg though if I wanted to. All my weight is supported by my ass on the seat and outside leg into the tank. I could also let go of the bars because of this, and I show it in my classes. I can transfer my body from one side of the bike, without touching the bars.

If you weight the inside peg mid corner, the forces you are putting are horizontal to the ground basically, and can cause the bike to push mid corner.


so your weight is diffuse on the outside of the bike as a whole,almost as if youre pulling it down with your leg to maintain the turn?

Yes.

ok that helps guys...thanks. now for the wife to let me spend money at the track so i can put this to use...:shifty

Just FYI. Getting the outside knee into the tank sounds easy on paper. But when you start trying to do it, it is not as easy as you may think at first.

The secret........... slide back off the tank about 2-3inches. Knee will hit easy as can be then, rather than your thigh hitting

i am the same as joe basically. i weight the inside peg to help turn-in, but then hold on to the bike with my outside leg, taking most if not all pressure off the inside peg during cornering.

try weighing the outside and giving a lil extra gas, this does help keep the rear tire grip

same goes for inside to turn in but not after turn in.

just practice both and find if any really helps you. but start slow and light

The secret........... slide back off the tank about 2-3inches. Knee will hit easy as can be then, rather than your thigh hitting

Great advice.


Joe if you find you are spinning up bad on only one corner and a line change does not do the trick aside from throttle control what are some other tricks?

Really depends I guess.

Sometimes I will lift the bike up more, but keep me in the same spot in space essentially. Pick it up underneath myself. Can be sketchy though because you start to become disconnected from the bike hanging off too far, and if it still does spin up, you might just fall off :lol. I have seen it happen. Sometimes a suspension change is needed, even for only one corner, if it is a crucial corner. The changes will depend on the corner really though, and what is setting it off.

Sometimes I might actually slide back farther in the seat to get more rear traction on corner exit as well. Or if it is close to the end of the corner, I might snap the bike vertical with hard counter steering out of the corner, to get it upright fast and early. It will usually snap a wheelie at the same time, but that is better than a huge spin. It squares off the corner, so doing this will be line dependent really

I will give it a try, thanks.

Just was looking through my latest sport rider magazine, and the "Riding Skills" section on page 86 goes into lower body use a good bit. Just thought I would bring it up :cheers

Neither.

Weighting the inside to initiate the turn is what I do.

But once in the corner, if you are weighting the inside peg, you are asking to crash, and probably using poor body position.


The way I teach it, and the way I do it si mid corner the outside heel, calf and knee are firmly in contact with the bike. I would not call that weighting the outside peg, but putting my weight to the outside leg I guess. I am not literally pressing on teh outside peg at all. I could theoretically lift my inside foot off the peg though if I wanted to. All my weight is supported by my ass on the seat and outside leg into the tank. I could also let go of the bars because of this, and I show it in my classes. I can transfer my body from one side of the bike, without touching the bars.

If you weight the inside peg mid corner, the forces you are putting are horizontal to the ground basically, and can cause the bike to push mid corner.

And handle bars are for steering, and convenient places to put controls. They are NOT for holding on to. That is what the knee pockets on the tank are for.

+1.

As far as weighting the pegs, it is almost a mental thing more than anything else.

Stand on one leg, then take your suspended leg and push against the wall. How much pressure can you put on that leg before you just fall over?

It isn't so much that you are pushing down hard on the peg. You are more controlling your body with the outside leg. If you search around, you can find pics of pro's mid-corner, where their outside foot isn't even on the peg.

You need to really grind your knee into the tank. THAT is what controls your body/balance etc...not your arms and hands.

Scooting back in the seat......

That is a pet peeve of mine because you always hear people say "scoot your butt back". But if you ask those people why, most of them are like "because you gotta scoot back". Then im like, "ok...why?" ....because you gotta be away from the tank. "Ok, but WHY?".

Most people always say "scoot back" just because they have heard it before. Then you get people out there who are damn near sitting on the tail section, but have no clue as to why they are doing it.

1. The main reason you scoot back in the seat is to allow your inner thighs and knees to form to the "pocket" of the gas tank. How far you have to move back it totally dependent on your height and inseam. At 6'2", I will sit in a different position than Joe will at 4'9". :biggrin

2. Scooting back in the seat on straights will allow you to get in that "bubble" to have a better tuck (although i get lazy with that sometimes :banghead).

Body postion on this forum to me is as relevent as to which pipe is best. You'll get a different answer from everyone and what works for one man might not do you jack shit. So where do you begin? We don't know. Mofo's with the most crossed up riding postion can put 10 seconds on you an ME on any track. I've seen it and I've lauged at an "ugly" form only to be embaressed in a turn or two by folks 10 or so years my junior. Some have had breasts...get my drift? So I take everytihing said by anyone with a grain a salt. When I damn near went insane trying to find the perfect setup, my mentor just said casually..."JUST RIDE THE MOTHA FUCKA." I took his advice along with a first place trophy the same day. I'll never ignore advice but I haven't looked back since. I'm no one but I know enough to say, don't kill yourself trying to look like someone else. :thumbup

I agree to a certain extent.

But BP has evolved as the knowledge behind the science and physics of performance riding has evolved.

Sure, Doohan had the worst BP of all time (by modern standards) and did pretty well :D. But that doesn't mean somebody shouldn't try to do it the "right" way.

It is a proven fact that moving your CoM low and to the inside of the bike will allow the bike to remain more upright at any given speed. Which in turn, frees up traction (and lean angle). Whether you use that newfound available traction to go faster (increase lean angle) or simply keep it "in reserve" is up to you.

But the fact is that somebody with "proper" BP will utilize less lean angle at any given speed than somebody with poor BP.

So no, i don't suggest everyone to go out and try to look like Elbowz, but everyone should strive for the most productive and effective BP within their personal limits of comfort.

yeah carnage,i get that. for the most part,the question was specific in terms of weighting the pegs,and while i agree with you that everyone does it differently,i realize that ill get several answers. its just a matter of giving all those things a try and find out what will work for me and what wont.


thanks for all the input guys!