ECS Dyno mapped the bike on Thrusday. Baseline run was 137.3hp and 58.9ft-lbs with the air/fuel ratio all over the place.

After some extensive mapping, the final numbers were 139hp and 60.9ft-lbs, air/fuel was 13:1. It may not sound like a big gain but it made 2-10hp and 2-5ft-lbs more across the entire range with the biggest gains being made from 8000-12,000rpms. The chart is alot smoother than it was before he mapped it. This was done on 87 octane pump fuel and I didn't have time to change the plugs before I took the bike there.

Walter also did alot of work at 0,2,5, and 10% throttle to make the bike more rideable in the corners. I would highly recommend ECS if you live in the Phoenix area. Walter is one of the most stand-up guys I know.

I can't upload the chart due to it's size (maybe BMF can help me out here).

That looks like a very nice improvement! One question though, did you ask the tuner about the dip around 4K? The A/F ratio looks much better than before, but the dip is just as pronounced as before. I only ask because the 1K has a similar dip, and I was hoping to smooth the dip with some tuning. The curve does look awesome though.

Hey, where did the attachment go?

I've been trying to get the graph to show up. Saw the attachment then I guess I deleted it. I'll try again.

I'm not sure about this but I think it's how most bikes start out on the run. The dip is at about the same time the throttle is whacked open. Walter could verify this. 480-593-4269 He's awesome to deal with.

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/2001_GSXR750_87_octane4.JPG

looks good.

hey what's up man I'm looking for a map for the same type of machine. I'm useing a full yosh. trs carbon fiber system, will that map your using work with this exhaust? I live in philly Pa, nowhere near phoenix. Is their anyway I can get a copy of that map? from you or walter?.......young gunna

I actually don't have a copy of the map other than pulling it off of the PCommander. Walter does. I didn't see the point in having it because I personally won't be changing a thing. If I change the motor, he will adjust the map. Sorry.

If an exhaust is all you have this map probably isn't something that will help you very much anyway. My guess is that it will be way to rich.

However, he has done alot of bikes and might be able to help you out with your application. Give him a call 480-593-4269. Good luck.

Hey - I'm really curious as to what else has been done to his 750 ? - is that rear wheel HP ? I've watched dynoe runs in OZ where much larger bikes don't make that soughta power - even the big bruvva gixxer1000 - i've watched two different runs with two diff 1000 bikes and one was 139 and the other 144 - with pipe and chip - if you are getting that sought of oomph from a 750, i'm just wondering if you've got a really good engine or other mods ?
Thanks - love that curve - smoother than stockl!
Si.

That dip looks like it coincides with a rich spot on your a/f curve to me.

Dyno guy told me that a lot of the little ups and downs are from the exhaust system, each being unique.

I'll never see anything below 7000rpms on the track. He dumped a ton a fuel in at 0, 2, 5, and 10% throttle to help with any glitchieness. I think the dip has alot to do with just the start of the run and cracking the throttle wide open at such a low rpm. I'll have to ask him next month.

What has been done? Not really that much. Fresh rebuild mainly. On a compression test two cylinders were really bad according to my mechanic. Stock gaskets, rings and such.

Cams were degreed to 105. Heads were cleaned up and new valve guides installed (a couple of valves were pretty toasted). I think the heads were also shaved by the previous owner but I don't know that for a fact. Pair mod, M4 full exhaust, BMC filter, and PCommander. There could be more, I'm not sure what the previous owner did to it.

Sometime in Feb. I'm gonna run it with race fuel and new plugs to see if they make a difference.

oh hell if its a racebike, i wouldn't worry about the dip,
Good power thought!

once i get my clutch squared away, i may have to take a visit to see my uncle in AZ and drop by this place in the process

kick ass..

Wow! That sure is a very high dyno number for a stock engine.

Not every dyno reads the same hp, too many variables controlled by operator. nothing against yours Philbie

My street bike dynoed 110rwhp and then 120rwhp on 2 different dynos on the same day. Both Dynojet machines. MarMo & RFM in Atl

I just dynoed 111rwhp on the Factory Eddy dyno, time to do some tuning for a few more hp

I agree totally on the every dyno reads differently comment. A friend of mine actually had his bike dynoed at the Las Vegas DynoJet place, then ran his here in Phoenix. His run locally was 2hp lower then the one in Vegas. Same guy had it ran at a different shop locally and theirs was 11hp higher. I can only imagine the numbers the bike would see if I ran it at the shop who's dyno was reading that high.

ECS actually thinks his reads a couple hp low compared to most. This really doesn't matter to me, what I was looking for was an improvement and a smoother curve. Dynos are just a gauge, just like the ones people check tire pressures with.

My whole intent was to show not the top numbers but to show the improvements that can be make by having a map made for your specific application by someone qualified to do so, not just copying a map because it's cheaper. Previous to my baseline run the bike had a map in it when I purchased it. Just by making some relatively small changes to the motor the bike was running way lean as the A/F ratio shows. I just can't wait to ride the thing to see if the improvements are that noticable.

Philbie said:
I agree totally on the every dyno reads differently comment. A friend of mine actually had his bike dynoed at the Las Vegas DynoJet place, then ran his here in Phoenix. His run locally was 2hp lower then the one in Vegas. Same guy had it ran at a different shop locally and theirs was 11hp higher. I can only imagine the numbers the bike would see if I ran it at the shop who's dyno was reading that high.

ECS actually thinks his reads a couple hp low compared to most. This really doesn't matter to me, what I was looking for was an improvement and a smoother curve. Dynos are just a gauge, just like the ones people check tire pressures with.

My whole intent was to show not the top numbers but to show the improvements that can be make by having a map made for your specific application by someone qualified to do so, not just copying a map because it's cheaper. Previous to my baseline run the bike had a map in it when I purchased it. Just by making some relatively small changes to the motor the bike was running way lean as the A/F ratio shows. I just can't wait to ride the thing to see if the improvements are that noticable.





Good point! Dyno runs should be made on your bike to guage the improvements from modding your bike. The Number itself is not whats important, however it is the DIFFERENCE from before to after, that matters. The comparison should always be made using the same dyno, and under the same test conditions, and if possible by the same dyno operator. Comparing your HP number to someone else's is pointless. That is, unless he dynoed the same day, on the same dyno, and there was no measureable temp change after your run.

Most of the newer dynos come equipt with a weather station program. They take things like air temp, humidity, air pressure (density?), and probably other atmospheric conditions. This is figured into a correction factor. Now, I'm not saying that the program is perfect but you should theoreticly be able to run a bike at sea level and again at 10,000ft elevation and get nearly identical hp readings. With the correct correction factor calculated of course.

I'll ask my dyno guy next time I see him to verify this.

I am aware of the correction factor, but I still prefer to have all the variables as close from one test to another, to ensure accuracy. Maybe the correction is perfect, but It can't hurt.

i see one thing.. its hard to read but on the side of that dyno sheet it reads STD horsepower, a fluffy number from the widely used SAE horsepower. my gsxr pulls right at 140hp using sae numbers but with STD it was closer closer to 150hp. There are so many ways to convert the same dyno pull. just like this one time i went to a shop and was not happy with my results.. he laughed and said.. tell me what you want to see on the chart and ill adjust it.. just my 2 cents.

I was hittin 140 with just about the same mods as GixxerGuy. I think the only difference is that I didn't do the rods and I used the 1000 cams instead of using the custom grinds. With Nutec I was hittin 150, I can't wait to land a job so I can rebuild the motor. I miss the torque and the power, plus not to mention the look on peoples faces on 1000's when they couldn't pull away on the highway.

I cannot believe you ppl are getting 150 HP from a 750 - that's just not possible!! IN oz we are yet to see a 1000 make 150 hp out of the crate, and a 750's highest is 124 - talk about dodgy dyno's......I wish someone would come up with a "standard" - this 150hp from a 750 is ludicrous and just pisses me off - because many of us throw heaps of $$$ and time into our bikes and fall way short of some " made up number" like 150 HP - either yourselves or a tuner shop has come up with - because that number "sounds so good" - Would be strokin the ego by chance ? I've got a big dick / HP number than you? Si.

I don't know - I make 127.3 with a slip-on so with the Mods they have 140's on pump seems doable??
Cams, shaved head and degreed cams and the proper map has got to be worth 15 ponies...
Mine was 125.? with the slip-on and stock map and a map alone got me 2HP...
Remember that if you stroke a 750 you got one of those E-BOZ 800's
and how much horse was it puttin out??? I think a tad more than 150!!!
Just a thought????? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Si- I think you may just have a low reader.

Granted there are a few high reading dyno's out there.......but man come on give me a break........when every magazine in the world, US and UK puts the new 1000's at 150 out of the box.......i think it likely has about 150hp..........and a 750 a good 120hp.

My 02 750 only dyno'd at 117 with a slip-on, but im guessing its a low reader...but i don't care. CBR929's also only ran 119hp for comparison on that dyno.

That's another thing - every mag in the world is claiming between 138 and 150 hp for the 1000 out of the crate - so why does that make every 1000 a 150 HP monster ? We are honestly seeing 1000's "only" (only as in fuck me 142!!) 142 -144 hp out of the crate period. Sure we are seeing the 750's get to 120 out of the crate, and both are susceptable to mods - but nothing like the numbers you guys are seeing. We have a shop here in OZ - (wont mention any names) but they take a really honest 120 HP, you pay them a 1000 bucks to tune your bike and it comes back with 135 rear wheel hp!! - That same bike back on the "other dyno" produces the same 120HP !! - They are making the numbers up because that's what ppl wanna see and that's what ppl wanna be able to brag about - don't be naieve and let the same happen. If we all agreed on 120 for a crate 750, Full system add say + 5 HP maybe, a new map + 4, + 6 for cams and head work = 135 and verging on a bit of a "pig" to ride due to cam profiles....Serioulsy - don't let yourselves get dragged into the "wanna be club" - be a bit real and get realistic - have a proper think about the numbers and capacity. Check the numbers from the 750 AMA bikes, have a look at the extreem numbers - Sure a 750 can ake that power - i'm not dis agreeing on that - I am dis agreeing that an almost stock 750 is near making 150! - Next i'll be told the gixxer6's are 120 rear hp with a pipe.......well why not, their only 100cc down on the 750, and the 750 is "apparently" making numbers well above ?? Don't ya think something is out claiming those numbers ? - Yeah, Yeah - my friggin brain right ? - seriously though - just have a think about it. 750cc making 150HP......??

I phoned up three different Dyno operators today to see what numbers they are seeing on the 1000 out of the crate. All of them have yet to see better than 144 standard and a couple as low as 136 - The R1's are struggling to 130 and the 954's to 128 ish so the margins are still the same just not the big numbers - maybe OZ dyno's all read lower ? - Maybe Ego's read higher ? Cheers Si.

Si 9, dude your ignorance is really showing.Im glad you have all the answers and know more about my bike that I do. what an idiot . search my posts and you will find the dynos of my bike-matter of fact ill post this one, the image is bad but its 147hp on my sheet.. as well, read what i have done to my bike.. mine is actually low for what i have done.. Lees performance gets 150+ all day long with a 813 kit.. this bike is no where near stock and never did i say it was stock.. goofs like you that dont know your a$$ from a hole in the ground PISS ME OFF!!

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/winpep120.jpg
there is the link for the dyno sheet... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

#'s seem a little high to me. But if its really making that congrats. I would like to know how the bike is making almost 80 hp at 3000 rpms? Just wondering.

7quickly said:
#'s seem a little high to me. But if its really making that congrats. I would like to know how the bike is making almost 80 hp at 3000 rpms? Just wondering.



Ok, maybe im not seeing something that you are.. the dyno does not show RPMs. its shows speed and hp. this was a 4th gear run. now unless you have a special 300 mph bike that runs 100mph at 3500rpms, mine is making 80hp around 75mph, and 75 mph is nowhere near 3000 rpms on mine bike. its much higher... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

Reread read the chart. Approx 20ft-lbs at 3000rpm. It's not really that important anyway. Since that's where he starts the run that's the most likely spot to have the errors.

I'm just trying to show the improvement one can get by having a bike dyno tuned. And if you think the numbers are high? His dyno reads about 2-3hp lower than the one at Dynojet in Vegas.

Dynojets are not always right.. i will be the first to say, the way they work is by calculating how quick you can spin the drum which is made to weigh a certain weight, now after time metal wears off the drum and bearings dont spin as freely as a new one.. dynojets are best for BEFORE and AFTERS, more than Accurate hp numbers.

Isn't that what the graph is showing? Before the mapping/After the mapping? As long as the dyno reads consistant run after run. So who makes the accurate dyno?

I apologize, I mis-read the dyno chart. I just glanced at it and thought the horsepower was torque and vice versa. However, after looking again (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong) that chart is total bullshit. The torque and horsepower are basically following each other. I don't care what motor you are running, but HP and Torque HAVE to cross at 5252 rpms. Always! HP= (Torque * RPM)/5252 with torque in ft-lbs.
Am I missing something? Not trying to be a dick, just trying to figure your dyno pull out.

You mis-read again. The only way they will cross at 5252rpm's is if the torque and hp are given on the same scale. This is not the case on this graph. So I'm correcting you because you're wrong. It's not rocket science, just probably different from what you're use to seeing in the mags.

Sorry. I'm an idiot. DIdn't notice that. I'll shut up now. Still curious how it made that much power, not saying it didn't however. Nothin like a couple of brain farts to make you feel really dumb.

Comparos between the same bike on diferent dynos are stupid. Dynos (best use) are a tool for tuning and testing a single bike on the same dyno the same day. I have done > 3000 pulls, over 200 custom maps, please remember what dynos are for.

And BTW, looking at the nice and flat (or sometimes bumpy) a/f line at the bottom of the chart, is just 100% throttle readings (after the first few seconds). So anyone lokking at that line saying that its properly tuned...is wrong.

I agree completely. The tuner did alot of work at the 0-20% throttle position to remove any hesitation at those ranges. For what it is, strickly a race bike, I think he did an excellent job doing what I needed done. Creating as much power smoothly and making it controlable with on/off throttle in the corners. That's why the map I have won't work for anybody but me based on application and modifications.

GixxerGuy - Pull your head in man! - I was not reffering to yourself, I was reffering to the first post where an almost stock gix 750 made 139 rear wheel HP. Those numbers are simply not heard of in oz on the 750. I was reading two posts at the same time wen I last wrote my reply and the other post was claiming just that - 150 from a 750. Reading your mods, I have no doubt your HP are right up there, there's a lot of work and dollars into something like that, I've done smaller scale (cams, head work etc) to many bikes over the years - it's not ignorance it's just I am sick of ppl making extravagant claims. I have no doubt that the Philbie's 750 probably did make those numbers, but it's good to see some ppl on this post saying what we all know - Dyno's are diagnostic tools and can read high / low from one day to the next. I can tell you this only from what i've seen down here in OZ. There has not been a 750 get anywhere near those numbers - in fact I've just bought the 1000 and it's not that far in front. Maybe in other countries dyno's are completely not comparable ?? - I know our 1/4 times are also a lot higher than what we read on this site - i've done a few years of 1/4 racing and have never seen a 600 nor a 750 run into the 9's - ever!!! I'm not trying to start argu's or anything - it's just " the my dick's bigger than yours" bragging really annoys, and yes your dick might be bigger! - But mine is cuter!!~!! Cheers Si.

Ok, I have an 02 750 and I was quite happy at just under 120 stock, got a PCIIIr and RS-3 full system, ran with and without the K&N, stock air filter was a little better air fuel mix... didnt scan in those runs... anyway, a pipe and map got me about 8-9hp which are very respectable gains and that is just under 130... not picking any fights, could be the dynos, 140 just seems a bit stiff to me.

Man, I really have to get my '02 750 dynoed. Obviously the numbers can't be compared to other bikes run on different dynoes and on different days, but a baseline would be nice. I'm running a K&N, Yosh slipon and PCIII. Very similar to Arai, only the older PC and not a full system. My friend has a '98 750 (modified) and he pulled on me on the highway. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif It'd be nice to know if my bike's underpowered, or his is just a killer (or maybe he was cheating and went down a gear). http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BTW Arai- do you know if PC3r maps are compatible with PC3's? I'd be interested to see what your custom air/fuel map looks like.

The pc3 and pc3r are identical, the 3 simply cant advance ignition... really a waste of money for me because I run on pump gas and is all zeros on that page... my understanding is without alternative fuels fooling with the r's capabilities could be hazardous to your engine.

Brolo if you shoot me an email I'll send you my map to look at, it should work for you... not sure you want to use it though, there is a big difference in how the engine breaths with full and slipon exhaust, granted I am no expert but I would think you may run rich with my map. Maybe others more informed could expand on this.

With the mods that you've done 130ish sounds about right. You've just done the simple and eash mods. When you start messing with the heads and cams then you'll understand how 140hp is possible. I just haven't done any boring or messed with the pistons.

Where did you run it at?

si 9 said:
GixxerGuy - Pull your head in man! - I was not reffering to yourself, I was reffering to the first post where an almost stock gix 750 made 139 rear wheel HP. Those numbers are simply not heard of in oz on the 750. I was reading two posts at the same time wen I last wrote my reply and the other post was claiming just that - 150 from a 750. Reading your mods, I have no doubt your HP are right up there, there's a lot of work and dollars into something like that, I've done smaller scale (cams, head work etc) to many bikes over the years - it's not ignorance it's just I am sick of ppl making extravagant claims. I have no doubt that the Philbie's 750 probably did make those numbers, but it's good to see some ppl on this post saying what we all know - Dyno's are diagnostic tools and can read high / low from one day to the next. I can tell you this only from what i've seen down here in OZ. There has not been a 750 get anywhere near those numbers - in fact I've just bought the 1000 and it's not that far in front. Maybe in other countries dyno's are completely not comparable ?? - I know our 1/4 times are also a lot higher than what we read on this site - i've done a few years of 1/4 racing and have never seen a 600 nor a 750 run into the 9's - ever!!! I'm not trying to start argu's or anything - it's just " the my dick's bigger than yours" bragging really annoys, and yes your dick might be bigger! - But mine is cuter!!~!! Cheers Si.



Id say its really hard for a true 750(749cc) bike to run in the 9s.. ive ran a 10.049 at 138 but as you can read below mine is not 749cc.. My head is at NPS racing getting ported. Will said i should see a 10% gain because of all my current mods.. if that works out.. ill be in the High 140s in hp.. that should break me in the 9's..with a lot of work and a lot of learning.. Drag racing is not as easy as one would think... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

and before someone throws in that 600ss class, im not saying its not possible.. im saying its REALLY hard for the normal average everyday rider

WHAT DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR 750
AND CAN YOU SEND ME THE MAP[