Went out for the first time making use of my new CCW permit. Lo and behold, chaos did not descend upon the city, blood did not run in the streets, and civilization as we know it didn't come to an end! I'm sure the anti-gun crowd will be disappointed their predictions did not come true this time lol.

Slipped my XDm in an IWB holster and went to Walmart first for groceries, then hit the range (shot my P99 instead though), and after that went to Barnes and Noble. Even paid a visit to the bank to deposit a check. Didn't seem like anyone noticed so I guess I did a halfway-decent job of keeping things concealed :D

Good job :thumbup Of me and my buddies that carry, none of us hardly ever notice each others sidearms, and we know what to look for and expect to see it since we know each of us carries. Now just imagine the standard sheep out there in public is not expecting to see it, doesn't know you even own a gun, so the chance they'll catch it and realize that it's a firearm is so small.

i thought banks were off-limits even with a ccw.

Maybe in some states, but usually not.

i thought banks were off-limits even with a ccw.

In Michigan, the only banks we can't carry in are actual Federal banks. All other banks you can carry concealed.

a quick google search told me that theres no federal law against carrying in any bank. according to what i read, even a federally insured bank is not considered a federal bank. therefore, you can carry in a bank, unless there is a state law that says otherwise or it is clearly displayed. cool, you learn something new everyday.

Better watch the bank thing. Also watch out when you go into Jewerly stores as they sometimes have the OFFICIAL signs posted!! Check on the banks... WATCH FOR THE SIGNS!! DONT GET CAUGHT SHORT!!

a quick google search told me that theres no federal law against carrying in any bank. according to what i read, even a federally insured bank is not considered a federal bank. therefore, you can carry in a bank, unless there is a state law that says otherwise. cool, you learn something new everyday.

It must be a Michigan law because it was specifically pointed out in my CPL class as well as all the local Michigan gun forums I visit.

Better watch the bank thing. Also watch out when you go into Jewerly stores as they sometimes have the OFFICIAL signs posted!! Check on the banks... WATCH FOR THE SIGNS!! DONT GET CAUGHT SHORT!!

In MN, if you go into a store with a sign thats posted, and someone sees your carrying, all they can do is ask you to leave, if you refuse, its a 25 dollar fine. Theres also ALOT of legal crap with those signs, how big hey are, the exact height off the ground they are, ect.. Those signs are invitations for criminals IMO. Me, I carry no matter what, unless its a court house or any federal building where you can get into serious trouble.

It must be a Michigan law because it was specifically pointed out in my CPL class as well as all the local Michigan gun forums I visit.

Not true. You need to research Michigan law yourself for the right answers.:cheers

http://michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10947--,00.html

And here


http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html#Concealed_Pistol_License__CCW_Permit____R enewal

And here


http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_27094-10953--,00.html#Concealed_Pistol_License__CCW_Permit____R enewal

I have visited this site(s) often and have never seen anything about concealed carry in banks but I think where the concern comes in is that Federal law prohibits concealed carry in federal buildings and the Federal Reserve bank (I only know of one in S.E. Michigan) and from what I've read from firearm attorneys and others in the know is that the concensus is you can not carry there (or maybe they just recommend you shouldn't. :dunno) Even carrying in the post office is a grey area (nobody has actually been charged in Michigan...yet) but I don't want to be the test case and normally leave my gun in the car (even though the post office isn't really a federal building, they have signs clearly posted.)

Better watch the bank thing. Also watch out when you go into Jewerly stores as they sometimes have the OFFICIAL signs posted!! Check on the banks... WATCH FOR THE SIGNS!! DONT GET CAUGHT SHORT!!

My CCW instructors were pretty clear about where it was prohibited here in Arizona and banks weren't included. I double-checked it myself and couldn't find a state or federal law prohibiting it.

I was going to leave my gun in the car before going into the bank at first because I admit I was nervous about doing it but I decided to do so for two reasons 1) if I can comfortably carry in a bank of all places then I can get comfortable carrying anywhere else it's legal and 2) of all the places I need to visit I reasoned that the bank is the most likely place I would need a firearm if the SHTF. I made sure to check for signs before going in as well of course. I rarely visit the bank anyway since I do most of my stuff online or the ATM so this was kind of a test of my comfort with concealed carry.

Even carrying in the post office is a grey area (nobody has actually been charged in Michigan...yet) but I don't want to be the test case and normally leave my gun in the car (even though the post office isn't really a federal building, they have signs clearly posted.)


:nono
The post office is NOT a gray area. The post office is a go to jail now area, no matter where you are. Post offices ARE federal. Your talking PRISON for that.

:nono
The post office is NOT a gray area. The post office is a go to jail now area, no matter where you are. Post offices ARE federal. Your talking PRISON for that.

x2. definitely a no-no.

I don't know enough about the facts that make many consider it a grey area to argue it so I'll leave it at that but here's one example (of many.) The arguement this guy (and many make) is "Lawful purpse" in the statute.

http://rlwesquire.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/question-about-concealed-carry-in-a-post-office/

Better watch the bank thing. Also watch out when you go into Jewerly stores as they sometimes have the OFFICIAL signs posted!! Check on the banks... WATCH FOR THE SIGNS!! DONT GET CAUGHT SHORT!!


Only certain states have "official" signs that can prohibit carry. I think SC is one. And it is VERY VERY specific. If it does not meet all the criteria, and specific wording, then you can carry there (baring it is one of the explicitly denied areas, like a bar, or public building etc.)

GA does not. Even if a store (like a gun store, or pawn shop) SAYS "no loaded firearms" or whatever..... you are not required to empty it, nor show it or anything.

NOW, with that siad, if they DO see it, and they ask you to leave, you must do so or are guilty of criminal trespass.

Congrats Okie though....... we joke about the "wally world" walk on one of the forums I go to. It seems nearly everyone goes there for their first carry :lol.

With time you will be less fidgety of it and all. But you WILL notice your awareness of your suroundings will be higher.

And you will also get to a point where you are not comfortable without it. Just like it is odd to not have your walet, cell phone etc. You will not like NOT having the gun on you.

I don't know enough about the facts that make many consider it a grey area to argue it so I'll leave it at that but here's one example (of many.) The arguement this guy (and many make) is "Lawful purpse" in the statute.

http://rlwesquire.wordpress.com/2008/06/09/question-about-concealed-carry-in-a-post-office/

Thats grasping at straws. I don't feel like paying out my ass for a lawyer, possibly losing my carry rights, and guns, and dragging through court for who knows how long (as this would affect EVERY permit holder, not just me) and possibly change the law. I go to a post office, mines unloaded and locked in my glove box.

Congrats Okie though....... we joke about the "wally world" walk on one of the forums I go to. It seems nearly everyone goes there for their first carry :lol.

With time you will be less fidgety of it and all. But you WILL notice your awareness of your suroundings will be higher.

And you will also get to a point where you are not comfortable without it. Just like it is odd to not have your walet, cell phone etc. You will not like NOT having the gun on you.

Walmart was my first carry also:lol And like said, I feel "not right" without my gun on my side or back now whenever I go anywhere. Kind of strange, as a few years ago, I would have been scared shitless of getting caught carrying a gun:lol

I was told in my ccw class that North Carolina is illegal to carry in any bank.

I was told in my ccw class that North Carolina is illegal to carry in any bank.


Research it yourself for your state.

You would be AMAZED at how many CC instructors are clueless themselves, and parrot laws that they "heard" and are not actually true.

Thats grasping at straws. I don't feel like paying out my ass for a lawyer, possibly losing my carry rights, and guns, and dragging through court for who knows how long (as this would affect EVERY permit holder, not just me) and possibly change the law. I go to a post office, mines unloaded and locked in my glove box.

I'm in the middle of reading Massad Ayoob's "Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry" and he admits there is controversy over whether concealed carry is off-limits in the post office but he's pretty clear that he doesn't advocate doing it. He explicitly recommends against doing it.

He devotes a whole chapter to where you can and can't carry and the main places he discusses where CCW is frowned upon are schools, places of worship, courthouses, places where alcohol is served, and federal buildings (including post offices). No mention of banks in there.

We cant carry in a BAR (more than 50% of the $$ from alchohol) but a restaurant that serves you can carry... just cant be drinking yourself. Also GA says any public building..... which is not just a courthouse, but also the library, tax assesors, city hall etc. Anyting we as tax payers pay for basically.

Congrats Okie though....... we joke about the "wally world" walk on one of the forums I go to. It seems nearly everyone goes there for their first carry :lol.

With time you will be less fidgety of it and all. But you WILL notice your awareness of your suroundings will be higher.

And you will also get to a point where you are not comfortable without it. Just like it is odd to not have your walet, cell phone etc. You will not like NOT having the gun on you.

I noticed the Wally World thing on the CCW forums I've been lurking at. I needed to get some groceries that day so I figured I'd do it myself since it seems to practically be a right of passage among CCWers - like that first trackday for sportbikers. I remember one post that even had "guidelines" - how you have to spend a certain amount of time in one section, how you have to go to the john at least once, and that your total time in the store should be no less than 30-45 minutes :lmao

My awareness does need work. Yuma's a pretty quiet town so it's easy to slip into "Condition White" all the time.

Yeah, it is not like you think everyone is going to be a criminal. But you will profile people. Cant help it really. And you will find yourself briefly thinking things like "if that guy did X, and I had to do Y, I need to look out for Z".... they will be fleeting thoughts. But just enough to raise the awareness. Things like the number of people in a store, where some of them are, etc.

Yeah, it is not like you think everyone is going to be a criminal. But you will profile people. Cant help it really. And you will find yourself briefly thinking things like "if that guy did X, and I had to do Y, I need to look out for Z".... they will be fleeting thoughts. But just enough to raise the awareness. Things like the number of people in a store, where some of them are, etc.

Yeah, all those thoughts are easy to think, I do it also, but I wonder, if SHTF I think those thoughts would wonder off and it would result in panic, especially if your being shot or shot at. I worry MOST of where kids, and innocent people are. One miss, or over penetrating round passing through thin shelves of CDs and DVDs killing a kid would end it for me I think. I don't now if I could carry the burden. How many of us could blow that off and say "well, shit happens"? I was just protecting myself.:dunno I don't know if I could do that. On the other hand, I have kids and a wife that I need to make it home to also.

We cant carry in a BAR (more than 50% of the $$ from alchohol) but a restaurant that serves you can carry... just cant be drinking yourself. Also GA says any public building..... which is not just a courthouse, but also the library, tax assesors, city hall etc. Anyting we as tax payers pay for basically.

Here in Arizona, as of Sept. 31st our instructors said the new revision will take effect that will allow concealed carry in any establishment that serves alcohol. In a way it's an improvement since the old law had no distinction between a bar and restaurants that served unlike there in GA. Which meant my favorite chinese buffet is off-limits because they have a bar on the premises even though I and practically everybody else who goes there are only there for the buffet :wacko

I'm not too crazy on the other aspect of this basically allowing you to drink at a bar while armed but I hope other AZ CCWers will adopt Mas Ayoob's advice: Just stay the hell away from alcohol when you have a gun :)

Thats grasping at straws. I don't feel like paying out my ass for a lawyer, possibly losing my carry rights, and guns, and dragging through court for who knows how long (as this would affect EVERY permit holder, not just me) and possibly change the law. I go to a post office, mines unloaded and locked in my glove box.

Call it what you want. I call it a grey area in which there has not been a single case in Michigan of someone legally concealed carrying in a post office being "thrown in prison." I also err on the side of caution and most of the time do lock it up in my car but if I am running in and out to do a simple drop, I will not always disarm. Call me crazy. My attorney (who specializes in 2nd amendment and firearms law) will do two cases 'pro bono', one is if someone is to be arrested in Michigan for carry multiple pistols (another grey area as the statute is ambiguous, ie. leading to what most call a 'grey' area) and being arrested for carrying concealed in a post office. He has yet to give away any free legal services in 30 odd years of practice. ;) Any one of these cases would put him 'on the map' so to speak and he already has a game plan to defend a client--hopefully not me. :lol

I doubt one single case will have as much merit on concealed carry laws as in the past few months I've read of about 4 different cases where CPL holders in Michigan were arrested for flashing and actually pointing their weapons at motorists (one even got a shot off) and our concealed carry laws haven't changed yet. But I realize they make us all look bad in the end. That we can all agree on.

I'm not too crazy on the other aspect of this basically allowing you to drink at a bar while armed but I hope other AZ CCWers will adopt Mas Ayoob's advice: Just stay the hell away from alcohol when you have a gun :)

I don't know about you, but I'm mature enough to have a beer with my meal and not want to shoot up the place. I'm not trying to call you out or bad mouth you or anything. I just think the whole idea of our government making laws to protect us from ourselves is absurd.

...

I don't know about you, but I'm mature enough to have a beer with my meal and not want to shoot up the place. I'm not trying to call you out or bad mouth you or anything. I just think the whole idea of our government making laws to protect us from ourselves is absurd.

There is a .02 BAC limit in MN while carrying a gun.

I don't know about you, but I'm mature enough to have a beer with my meal and not want to shoot up the place. I'm not trying to call you out or bad mouth you or anything. I just think the whole idea of our government making laws to protect us from ourselves is absurd.

I wasn't worried about myself - I rarely drink alcohol to begin with - I was more worried about other people who might not have the same self-control as you. I'm trusting CCWers being the overwhelmingly responsible citizens they are will have that self-control but it only takes one idiot...

I call it a grey area in which there has not been a single case in Michigan of someone legally concealed carrying in a post office being "thrown in prison."

My attorney (who specializes in 2nd amendment and firearms law) will do two cases 'pro bono', one is if someone is to be arrested in Michigan for carry multiple pistols (another grey area as the statute is ambiguous, ie. leading to what most call a 'grey' area) and being arrested for carrying concealed in a post office. He has yet to give away any free legal services in 30 odd years of practice. ;) It sounds like either a) people believe it to be illegal and no one is carrying in post offices or b) no one has been caught. But that does not prove that people have done it and the post office doesn't care.

Any one of these cases would put him 'on the map' so to speak and he already has a game plan to defend a client--hopefully not me. :lolYeah, I just wouldn't carry in the P.O. period. I certainly wouldn't want any kind of federal charges brought against me to be decided among 12 strangers. Even a slap on the wrist (no jail time) could strip you away of your gun rights.

Of course, I'm NOT a lawyer...I don't even play one on T.V. I'd just hate to see someone lose their rights over trying to push a grey area. :)

It sounds like either a) people believe it to be illegal and no one is carrying in post offices or b) no one has been caught. But that does not prove that people have done it and the post office doesn't care.

Yeah, I just wouldn't carry in the P.O. period. I certainly wouldn't want any kind of federal charges brought against me to be decided among 12 strangers. Even a slap on the wrist (no jail time) could strip you away of your gun rights.

Of course, I'm NOT a lawyer...I don't even play one on T.V. I'd just hate to see someone lose their rights over trying to push a grey area. :)

+1

:cheers

It sounds like either a) people believe it to be illegal and no one is carrying in post offices or b) no one has been caught. But that does not prove that people have done it and the post office doesn't care.


Exactly. Its a grey area.:p

...but it only takes one idiot...

Unfortunately very true. :dissapointed

And building that gets a government paycheck cant have guns inside.. period... Thats the best way to remember it.. Along with places that sell alcohol minus restaurants, but lets say youre at the bar at a restaurant or even in the bar area eating.. Thats not allowed.

Here in Florida if you break any of those its minimum 1 year up to 5 years depending what the offense was.

Cheers!