I haven't been working out much in the last 6 months due to a shoulder injury and have just started back a couple weeks ago. I started back light, with the following routine 3 days per week (morning: 1/2 hr cardio, 1hr weights(light) evening: 1.5hr Taekwondo) with lots of stretching before, during and after.

What I've noticed is that the morning after a workout day, I cannot get out of bed at all. It's not that I'm sore or hurting or anything like that. It is more like I've been drugged and cannot make myself wake up in the morning. Kinda like taking a bunch of sleeping pills before going to bed at night, or something like that. On mornings after a non-workout day, I can get up just fine with no problems.

I am 30 yrs old (so that might be part of it) But I don't drink or smoke, I am not taking any supplements or medications. I have cut my 4500 calorie intake back to about 1200-1500 per day, and that is the same for workout days and non-workout days alike.

Anyone seen this before? Does this sound like some kind of chemical imbalance that is happening at night on a workout day, or do I need to be taking some kind of supplement? I hate taking anything by the way. I thought about dehydration, but I do drink lots of water, I cut out sodas and drink nothing but water, and an ice tea with lunch every day.

sounds like a lack of sufficent calories and supplements. Baseline people need so many calories just for maintenance. Non workout days your 1500 is just enough to get by, but on workout days your burning through them. I say up your calorie intake over 2000 and start taking some supplementatoin. my $.02

Fiddy_Ryder said:
sounds like a lack of sufficent calories and supplements. Baseline people need so many calories just for maintenance. Non workout days your 1500 is just enough to get by, but on workout days your burning through them. I say up your calorie intake over 2000 and start taking some supplementatoin. my $.02



Exactly.... And add more protein, eat more chicken and fish to help your muscles repair. If youre just getting back into it it sounds normal to be so tired, just up the calories and protien a bit and see how well it works... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

So just up the calories on the "workout days"? I'm already eating about 2-3 cans of tuna per day, I can throw in a couple chicken breast in on workout days to up the calories and protien. If the calories and protien alone dont fix it, what supplements would you guys suggest?

Gixxer_Jason said:
So just up the calories on the "workout days"? I'm already eating about 2-3 cans of tuna per day, I can throw in a couple chicken breast in on workout days to up the calories and protien. If the calories and protien alone dont fix it, what supplements would you guys suggest?



No, keep the calories up even in off days. Thats when your body is repairing and you need to keep up the diet even though youre not working out. Take a good multi vitamin and maybe some sublingual B-12, that should help with some of the energy problems. Dont worry about taking too much b-12 either, what your body doesnt assimilate you will flush out (it's water soluble). http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

ya keep the calories up on and off days... 1-1.5 g of protein per lb of body weight.

1200-1500 ?!? That's the problem - in my off-season I eat about 4500-5000 calories a day (at about 225lbs). With your activity, get over 3000, also on off days...

well damn... I'm trying to get more lean at the same time, and knock this gut off me. I'm 5'9" and 200, and have dropped to 194 in the past few weeks (thanks to the diet I guess) But I'm shooting for 170 or so. Seems like when I was eating more, I could not drop weight, or my gut, no matter how much I worked out. FYI: before I flipped my waverunner at 70mph and killed my shoulder....
I was doing 1hr cardio, 1hr weights, and 3 hrs of Taekwondo daily, 4-5 days a week. I ate a LOT of food but could never drop weight or slim down my waist. So that is why I dropped the calories so dratsicaly this time around.

What would be the best bet for reducing my body fat while at the same time, getting back into the swing of working out regularly? I'm not into getting much bigger, I'm fine with my size, just not the definition.

Just keep at it, if youre losing 1-2 lbs./week youre doing great. Youve gotta remember too, youre gonna be adding muscle,so you cant always judge fatloss by weight. Muscle does weigh more than fat.... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Thanks for the advice you guys, I really appreciate it.

Who needs a __________(insert professional title here) When you've got gixxer.com http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just to further expand on what's been said it's impossible to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Your body is either in an anabolic state (growing), or catabolic state (shrinking). The most you can hope to do when trying to get leaner is minimize the amount of muscle you lose. By keeping your protein high, and carbs and fat to a moderate level you can minimize the amount of muscle you lose at this time.

Your body will lose weight as long as it's in a caloric deficit. You can do this several ways. The easiest way to do this is to take notes of everything that passes your lips for two weeks. If you haven't gained or lost any weight, this is your "maintenance" level of food that you can intake without changing your body. The simplest way to lose weight is to continue doing this but increase your cardio. This way, you're caloric intake is the same, but your expenditure is greater, resulting in weight loss. Another way is to decrease your calories and increase cardio. This will have more drastic effects because not only are you taking in fewer calories, you are also burning more. However, at this time, it is impossible for you to gain muscle.

Shed fat now, gain muscle later, or do it in whichever order you like. Just don't try and do it at the same time because you won't do either well.

As far as your being tired goes, that's normal. Take a multivitamine, eat a well balanced diet (not stupidly high in protein), and sleep as much as you can, or at least 7 hours per night. There is a slight chance you could be overtraining too. This is totally personal too and is difficult to tell without knowing you, your exact regimine, what you're eating, and how you'r sleeping. Fatigue is a good sign of this. If you're doing the above things properly, consider changing your workouts, and possible taking more time off. There are tonnes of guys, including myself who make their best gains (muscle) and best losses (fat) on a three day push, pull, legs split. This gives you 4 days off per week. Again, it's totally personal and only trial and error will help determine what works best for you.

Hey Jason,, no comment about your post but I also live in OKC, just thought i would say Hi..

-Chris

machman said:
Just to further expand on what's been said it's impossible to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Your body is either in an anabolic state (growing), or catabolic state (shrinking). The most you can hope to do when trying to get leaner is minimize the amount of muscle you lose. By keeping your protein high, and carbs and fat to a moderate level you can minimize the amount of muscle you lose at this time.

Your body will lose weight as long as it's in a caloric deficit. You can do this several ways. The easiest way to do this is to take notes of everything that passes your lips for two weeks. If you haven't gained or lost any weight, this is your "maintenance" level of food that you can intake without changing your body. The simplest way to lose weight is to continue doing this but increase your cardio. This way, you're caloric intake is the same, but your expenditure is greater, resulting in weight loss. Another way is to decrease your calories and increase cardio. This will have more drastic effects because not only are you taking in fewer calories, you are also burning more. However, at this time, it is impossible for you to gain muscle.

Shed fat now, gain muscle later, or do it in whichever order you like. Just don't try and do it at the same time because you won't do either well.

As far as your being tired goes, that's normal. Take a multivitamine, eat a well balanced diet (not stupidly high in protein), and sleep as much as you can, or at least 7 hours per night. There is a slight chance you could be overtraining too. This is totally personal too and is difficult to tell without knowing you, your exact regimine, what you're eating, and how you'r sleeping. Fatigue is a good sign of this. If you're doing the above things properly, consider changing your workouts, and possible taking more time off. There are tonnes of guys, including myself who make their best gains (muscle) and best losses (fat) on a three day push, pull, legs split. This gives you 4 days off per week. Again, it's totally personal and only trial and error will help determine what works best for you.



http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Also, make sure your calorie deficit isn't too big. If you cut your calorie intake too much (or fat intake, for that matter), your body will go into a "survival mode", building up stores of fat to protect itself... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

Gixxer_Jason said:
So just up the calories on the "workout days"? I'm already eating about 2-3 cans of tuna per day, I can throw in a couple chicken breast in on workout days to up the calories and protien. If the calories and protien alone dont fix it, what supplements would you guys suggest?



I eat 2-3 cans for one meal + other goodies.....

Which reminds me. I put some cans of tuna in the fridge( I like it cold) and then I am going to cook probably 3-4 chicken breats..... And SOme mashed potatoes, and a can of fruit.....

Like 2 hrs ago I ate 8 eggs and 9 slices of turkey in the egg sandiwhiches with cheese, yuuumm. You are nopt eating enough to sustain your activity level. What is going to start happening is your body is going to start eating your muscle mass.

I am going to cheat though. I am going to the store to buy some more brewski.....

What you might want to do is get some protein supplement like myoplex, or 100% whey protien ( I buy the brand Optimum nutrition), etc..... That way you eat like a horse and then you get the extras you need form the protien power.

But you have to go in one of two ways. You are either trying to obtain strength then you have to EAT AND EAT. You mustn't worry about body fat at this point. Then once you get to where you like then you have to adjust your diet. But all the while you need to keep you protein up...

I haven't read what everyone posted yet so I am pretty sure they covered it already.......
I just saw the cans of tuna a day thing....

machman said:
Just to further expand on what's been said it's impossible to both lose fat and gain muscle at the same time. Your body is either in an anabolic state (growing), or catabolic state (shrinking).



Thats not true.If your nitrogen levels and testosterone levels are high enough,you will indeed gain muscle and burn fat at the same time.Trust me bro......

Trying to get back into a routine after being out of one is hard for anyone. Suggestions on a particular calorie intake are not always accurate. This is due to the fact that everyone's body works different ways. One fact that is very true is that a body needs fuel to operate. And to me it sounds like your body is being run down. Step up your calorie intake. If it is weight that you are concerned about, then eat smart. By performing daily cardio activities, you are increasing your metabolism. Which in itself, will help you lose weight. But keep this thought on mind, "A car will not run without gasoline", so feed the body, but feed the body smart.

Thats not true.If your nitrogen levels and testosterone levels are high enough,you will indeed gain muscle and burn fat at the same time.Trust me bro......


That's what I had always heard. Well I'm already satisfied with the size of my muscles, If I get much bigger, I will be too slow in Taekwondo. I'm looking to get lean and cut. I am just doing light workouts on the weights to just try to maintain the muscle size I already have, while dropping the fat. The diet I've been on seems to have been very successful, I'm eating smart, smaller portions, more often, and I am never hungry except when I first get up in the mornings. I am thinking that the off-day calories are just about right for fat loss, so I'm going to bump up the calories on workout days by a few hundred calories and see what happens.

FOXXROCKET: (Chris) You remember me, I used to ride the Gix750 with the yellow -to- black fade paint job. How's it going bro?

I disagree with the loss of weight/build muscle at the same time comment. I think you can build muscle and drop the pounds at the same time. Don't get me wrong, you won't gain as much muscle when you are trying to drop the love handles, but you can still gain.

Bro - you are just cutting back too much. Take your time and add some calories. Given a few months, you will see a big difference. The most important part of working out is the quality of rest you get - well actually working-out is important too.

I am no expert and old as hell too (35) - just my 2 cents!

I assume we're talking naturally here boys in which case what I'm saying is true. Don't take my word for it, hit some hardcore bodybuilding sites and ask this question.

just like the first couple guys had said.. your not taking in enough calories, especially protein.. reason you are so lethargic the morning after a workout is because your body has exhausted all of its resources trying to recouperate.. you do most of your recouperation while your sleeping, and if your starving your system you will be waxed the next day.. you should be taking in at least one gram of protein for every kilo you weight.. so say you weigh 180 lbs.. you divide that by 2.2 and that is the quantity of protein you should be taking in as a minimum.

eat..!!!!
take more protein, and dont cut back on carbs, if u want to lose fat, exercise and control fat intake.
the symptoms u describe is just overtraining. stop training for a week or 2.
oh, if i were u, i would'start doing just one session per day if u want to keep that strange diet.

machman said:
I assume we're talking naturally here boys in which case what I'm saying is true. Don't take my word for it, hit some hardcore bodybuilding sites and ask this question.


Umm,yeah I belong to quite a few of those hardcore sites.I can also tell you that you are making a rather large generalization with your statement.Their are always genetic feaks that will gain lean mass(no matter now diminutive it may be)while dieting to lose fat.I'm not trying to break your balls man,but I've dieted to lose fat and at the same time increased my leanmass a bit simply by optimizing my caloric needs to suit me.But 9 out of 10 people will not realize these results as typical.I've also been doing this for over 15 yrs. so I know my body better then any trainer could.It all boils down to the individual.....

Well ignoring the body building bit (not something Im an expert in at all) What I do 100% know is that if your doing heavy cardio vascular work outs and you dont take in enough carbs you will always be knackered. like someone else says - dont skimp on the carbs if you want to get fit.

Oh and its definately not your age - in your early / mid thirties you should be as fit if not fitter than the next person (ever noticed that practically all world class male marathon runners are between 32 - 36 )

but I could go on forever on this subject.
Briefly.....90% of folks overtrain and undereat. When you cut junk from your diet and eat clean it is real tough to get in all the calories you need. Cutting calories is flat wrong. And you need to keep your intake the same from one day to the next.
Forget scales...you need to know what % of lean mass your body is at and eat to maintain and add to it. This is the only way to increase your metabolism rate.
You do not want to go into caloric deficit. I won't get into a carb or no carb debate, but if you want to lose fat you want it to become the fuel. If you go heavy on carbs, they will be used instead of fat. You don't require big carbs for cardio work if you eat enough. Trust me.
Do cardio for your health, anything else is simply using up calories you ate hard to get in, and need for recovery.
Cut your workout time in half, but turn the intensity level way up. Stick to the most basic few weight training exercises, and do less sets. If you must do cardio, do it after weights.
Pay little or no attention to muscleheads. If what circulates out there as widely accepted, "how to" knowledge around how to get huge and ripped is correct, why isn't the world full of Arnold look-alikes? Why do the vast majority of guys you see in the gym show little improvement one year to the next? Well, that's 'cause they're doing it all wrong.
I will stop now.....I have no doubt I will have my share of detractors after this post. I will get plenty of opportunity to add to this subject.

arc_light said:
but I could go on forever on this subject.
Briefly.....90% of folks overtrain and undereat. When you cut junk from your diet and eat clean it is real tough to get in all the calories you need. Cutting calories is flat wrong. And you need to keep your intake the same from one day to the next.
Forget scales...you need to know what % of lean mass your body is at and eat to maintain and add to it. This is the only way to increase your metabolism rate.
You do not want to go into caloric deficit. I won't get into a carb or no carb debate, but if you want to lose fat you want it to become the fuel. If you go heavy on carbs, they will be used instead of fat. You don't require big carbs for cardio work if you eat enough. Trust me.
Do cardio for your health, anything else is simply using up calories you ate hard to get in, and need for recovery.
Cut your workout time in half, but turn the intensity level way up. Stick to the most basic few weight training exercises, and do less sets. If you must do cardio, do it after weights.
Pay little or no attention to muscleheads. If what circulates out there as widely accepted, "how to" knowledge around how to get huge and ripped is correct, why isn't the world full of Arnold look-alikes? Why do the vast majority of guys you see in the gym show little improvement one year to the next? Well, that's 'cause they're doing it all wrong.
I will stop now.....I have no doubt I will have my share of detractors after this post. I will get plenty of opportunity to add to this subject.


Good post....
The only 2 thing's I disagree with are that the right "muscleheads" will give you good advice.The world is not walking around with Ronnie Coleman look-alikes for the simple fact of genetics and the willingness to take training to the extreme.Not everyone wants to or can afford to use the required amount of pharmaceuticals needed to attain that look.You don't need to be 295lbs. with 5% BF to know what your talking about bro.But for a person training naturally the average musclehead "get big" info might not be helpful info for them.

I also disagree with doing cardio after a workout.If you train 110% and just puked on your last set of squats then you just wont have the energy to strut into the room and do 45 minutes of cardio.Sure if you have little time thats fine.However,I like to do my cardio when my Glycogen levels are low and when I have an empty stomach before my first meal in the morning.For me this is optimal,especially if I'm preparing for a contest.It may not be the best for someone else though......

the kind of advice muscle magazines spew that is of little value to the average guy.
I concur around genetics playing the biggest part followed real close by meds, I just didn't get that far. Perhaps the best analogy is the one that says, "even without drugs, the same guys would still be the ones winning".
On cardio.....you're right on. I'll wager that you don't jump right to the weights immediately afterwards, right?
I was making reference to those folks who incorporate the two in their routines one right after the other in the same session. Cardio first would put a huge dent in your ironwork. I have no doubt you wouldn't even dream of hitting the iron without putting a meal between the two.
There will be some out there that will ask how you can survive cardio on an empty stomach. You and I know it's no problem when you maintain adequate caloric intake rather than ascribe to what amounts to a starvation diet.

arc_light said:
the kind of advice muscle magazines spew that is of little value to the average guy.
I concur around genetics playing the biggest part followed real close by meds, I just didn't get that far. Perhaps the best analogy is the one that says, "even without drugs, the same guys would still be the ones winning".
On cardio.....you're right on. I'll wager that you don't jump right to the weights immediately afterwards, right?
I was making reference to those folks who incorporate the two in their routines one right after the other in the same session. Cardio first would put a huge dent in your ironwork. I have no doubt you wouldn't even dream of hitting the iron without putting a meal between the two.
There will be some out there that will ask how you can survive cardio on an empty stomach. You and I know it's no problem when you maintain adequate caloric intake rather than ascribe to what amounts to a starvation diet.


I think you and I will get along just fine bro..... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

oldgixxer said:

arc_light said:
but I could go on forever on this subject.
Briefly.....90% of folks overtrain and undereat. When you cut junk from your diet and eat clean it is real tough to get in all the calories you need. Cutting calories is flat wrong. And you need to keep your intake the same from one day to the next.
Forget scales...you need to know what % of lean mass your body is at and eat to maintain and add to it. This is the only way to increase your metabolism rate.
You do not want to go into caloric deficit. I won't get into a carb or no carb debate, but if you want to lose fat you want it to become the fuel. If you go heavy on carbs, they will be used instead of fat. You don't require big carbs for cardio work if you eat enough. Trust me.
Do cardio for your health, anything else is simply using up calories you ate hard to get in, and need for recovery.
Cut your workout time in half, but turn the intensity level way up. Stick to the most basic few weight training exercises, and do less sets. If you must do cardio, do it after weights.
Pay little or no attention to muscleheads. If what circulates out there as widely accepted, "how to" knowledge around how to get huge and ripped is correct, why isn't the world full of Arnold look-alikes? Why do the vast majority of guys you see in the gym show little improvement one year to the next? Well, that's 'cause they're doing it all wrong.
I will stop now.....I have no doubt I will have my share of detractors after this post. I will get plenty of opportunity to add to this subject.


Good post....
The only 2 thing's I disagree with are that the right "muscleheads" will give you good advice.The world is not walking around with Ronnie Coleman look-alikes for the simple fact of genetics and the willingness to take training to the extreme.Not everyone wants to or can afford to use the required amount of pharmaceuticals needed to attain that look.You don't need to be 295lbs. with 5% BF to know what your talking about bro.But for a person training naturally the average musclehead "get big" info might not be helpful info for them.

I also disagree with doing cardio after a workout.If you train 110% and just puked on your last set of squats then you just wont have the energy to strut into the room and do 45 minutes of cardio.Sure if you have little time thats fine.However,I like to do my cardio when my Glycogen levels are low and when I have an empty stomach before my first meal in the morning.For me this is optimal,especially if I'm preparing for a contest.It may not be the best for someone else though......



Losing fat and gaining muscle is absolutely a possibility, but in general the public relates fat loss with the loss of body lbs. Which generally, with more muscle growth, weight tends not to fluctuate all that much. Also when you start a new routine after being sedentary for a while, the body tends to retain water. I see a lot of info here that relates to diet, which is a huge part of the physique's development but we all know that it comes down to genetics, as stated above, and the way that you work out. I know a lot of people who use improper motions, and just the wrong exercises for the body type they are trying to achieve. I learned early on that to train hard takes a lot of heart. Things like forced reps, working to failure, pyramid and drop sets are all extremely difficult concepts to grasp in the gym. How many people do you know that love total muscle failure??? I know a few, and they are all guys who consistantly monitor thier diet and become a different person when they walk through the gym doors. I've always been an advocate of the old "Ass to heels squats, Lots of heavy deadlifts, and compound motions" mantra of training, and it hasnt failed me. There are two types of people who go to the gym, the guys who want to look good for the beach, and the guys who see it as an addiction. Adding those 5lbs to your bench, or squatting for that extra set, just because you can..... Thats just how I see it...