First off, I should have thought about this AT the gun store before I purchased the ammo :banghead.

I bought a box of Speer Gold dot for Dillys gun, and bought the remington for mine. Read good stuff about the speer for sure, and I thought remington made pretty damn good products too... and their box was 25 rounds which is just enough for me to load both mags +1 in the chamber.

well, I decided to check fit (have not fired either of them yet with the protection rounds, just shootem up stuff) and found this :thumbdown

This is with my barell. Have to check hers when she comes home.

102347

102348

The remington stuff doesnt fit my barrel :wtf.
Now I know it will shoot fine, and if it hits a badguy it will kill him (with placement :cool) but accuracy will no doubt suffer I am sure.

What would you do?

I think I am going to try to take the box back, and check a few other brands before I even worrying about firing to check for feed issues and such. I mean I am already behind the curve with this box since it doesnt fit my barrel really.

:scratch

Both ARE 9x19mm, right? Says so on the base of the case too, right? The projectile shape can make a difference, maybe the Speer just "widens out" sooner and the Remington is just as wide in the case. Take a micrometer (I know you have one ;)) and measure both projectiles right at the case mouth.

yeah, both are 9x19.

But the round as it is right now, wont even set into the rifling. I can actually rotate the round inside the barrel.

Not sure what made me think to check on a new gun. But that is how I check older used rifles to see if the rifling is in good shape (well one of the quick easy ways to check).

I need to walk to the shed and get my mic I guess :squid

most places wont take the ammo back once you have opened it for safety reasons of course, but if you are in good faith with the sales guy, he might cut you a deal and get you what you want.
mic the insides of the barrels as well , and see waht they are.

The box is not sealed :dunno.... they probably would take it back as long as it doenst look like it has been loaded (it has but I dont think there is any proof).


That is the same barrel in both pics :dunno

I need to walk to the shed and get my mic I guess :squid

Like I said :lol

Standardized measurements here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19

I don't believe Remington would make ammo that's that far off :scratch I think it's a combination of projectile shape and muzzle shape...

All 9x19 rounds should be .356" diameter :dunno

The remington is at between .3465 and .347.
The Speer is at .355 about across the board

that is using my Micrometer, and right at the edge of the casing.. My caliper batteries are dead so I can check the barrels.

If I had to guess, I would have to agree with svs and say that the speer just widens out sooner than the remington does. It might be seated in the case far enough that it won't fit the barrel until the bullet leaves the case.

Disagree. The bullet should NOT fit inside the barrel and spin freely. :nono I have 4 different ammos here in all sorts of calibers, NONE will fit inside the barrel like that. Now, as Joe said, it will probably work, but inaccurate. I personally have never seen that, unless you have a .40 cal barrel on your gun.

Nope, definitely a 9mm barrel :lol. The micrometer readings say it all. That and the fact it fits the same in the Keltec as it does in the Taurus.

Bad Ammo

I would say its highly unlikely that its bad ammo. In order to measure the bullet accurately you will need to pull one from the case. Do you have a bullet puller? If so you can disassemble one of the cartridges and measure the bullet near the base, the part that is currently in the case. Fitting the front end of a bullet, while its in the case, into the barrel at the barrels crown is probably not the best method for measuring the type of accuracy you will achieve. Bullets are different shapes as are the crowns on different gun barrels. The only way to be sure what the bullet measures is take one apart. The other option is to shoot some of it.

If you are going to stake your life on a certain ammunition, as in carry it in a weapon for self defense, I usually purchase 2-3 boxes to test the accuracy. I shoot that ammo till I am sure it has acceptable performance, or not. If it is acceptable I purchase more, if unacceptable I move on to test a different type.

The most critical measurement is where the bullets hit!

...

I would say its highly unlikely that its bad ammo. In order to measure the bullet accurately you will need to pull one from the case. Do you have a bullet puller? If so you can disassemble one of the cartridges and measure the bullet near the base, the part that is currently in the case. Fitting the front end of a bullet, while its in the case, into the barrel at the barrels crown is probably not the best method for measuring the type of accuracy you will achieve. Bullets are different shapes as are the crowns on different gun barrels. The only to be sure what the bullett measures is take one apart. The other option is to shoot some of it.

If you are going to stake your life on a certain ammunition, as in carry it in a weapon for self defense, I usually purchase 2-3 boxes to test the accuracy. I shoot that ammo till I am sure it has acceptable performance, or not. If it is acceptable I purchase more, if unacceptable I move on to test a different type.

The most critical measurement is where the bullets hit!

While I agree with most everything in your post, taking a measurement just at the edge of the cartridge with a good micrometer is not going to be any different than actually inside the cartridge.... its not like the cartridge swells at the neck on a 9mm luger round. The only way that could be true is if there were a gap at the very rim of the cartridge and the bullet (bullet seated to deep) and that is not the case.

Everything else in your post is/was the plan..... but I had just blasted way too much money at the range, and another $80 in ammo was not in the budgett right that second. :lol

The bullet may not fit from that end. Lock the slide back and put it in the barrel directly from the ejection port. If it fits then you are ok. Hold the gun upsid down once done and it will fall back out.

The bullet may not fit from that end. Lock the slide back and put it in the barrel directly from the ejection port. If it fits then you are ok. Hold the gun upsid down once done and it will fall back out.

The bullet is not supposed to fit from that end. It should stick out a very small amount. Not go all the way inside the barrel. If it fits like that from the front, of course it will fit from the chamber end, probably even sloppier.

The bullet is not supposed to fit from that end. It should stick out a very small amount. Not go all the way inside the barrel. If it fits like that from the front, of course it will fit from the chamber end, probably even sloppier.

Exactly. The "riflling" is supposed to cut in to the bullet. So it should not go all the way in to the barell without forcing it some (cutting it with the rifling). Of course it will fit in the chamber. It is too small as it is :lol

:wacko

While I agree with most everything in your post, taking a measurement just at the edge of the cartridge with a good micrometer is not going to be any different than actually inside the cartridge.... its not like the cartridge swells at the neck on a 9mm luger round. The only way that could be true is if there were a gap at the very rim of the cartridge and the bullet (bullet seated to deep) and that is not the case.

Everything else in your post is/was the plan..... but I had just blasted way too much money at the range, and another $80 in ammo was not in the budgett right that second. :lol

I believe the bullets measurement at the edge of the cartridge will be different and here is why, when the bullet is loaded into the case, the case is crimped slightly to hold that "soft" lead bullet. That changes the bullet dimension slightly at the point the case is crimped. Some bullets have a cannelure so a roll crimp on the case can hold the bullet better. again changing the dimision at the case mouth.

Bottom line is if you don't feel comfortable with that Ammo return it. You don't need to be concerned that the ammo you bought is of low quality. Personally I would shoot it and see how it preform against the Speer who knows your gun might like it.

The reason I said it was highliy unlikely that the ammo was bad is that Remington can't afford a liability issue with the ammunition and ammunition factories have very good quality control. Dosen't mean they never screw up, just means it happens very infrequently.

Do you reload?

Nope, sure dont. Id like to, especially now that we have commonality in our carry ammo. But we dont yet.

I dont think there is a liability issue at all. The rounds are perfectly safe, and I am certain they will fire as intended, and if they hit a man, would kill him if the placement is proper.

But I am also fairly certain that this box of ammo will not be the most accurate either :dunno. I will find out next weekend.

Problem with me doing "accuracy" tests, is I am not ALL that accurate myself. I hold my own, and can hit a silhouette with every shot probably out to 50ish yds I bet, or nearly every shot.

But just becuase I am not all that accurate, I dont need ammo conspiring against me to make that worse :lol

Nope, sure dont. Id like to, especially now that we have commonality in our carry ammo. But we dont yet.

I dont think there is a liability issue at all. The rounds are perfectly safe, and I am certain they will fire as intended, and if they hit a man, would kill him if the placement is proper.

But I am also fairly certain that this box of ammo will not be the most accurate either :dunno. I will find out next weekend.

Problem with me doing "accuracy" tests, is I am not ALL that accurate myself. I hold my own, and can hit a silhouette with every shot probably out to 50ish yds I bet, or nearly every shot.

But just becuase I am not all that accurate, I dont need ammo conspiring against me to make that worse :lol

Hey I have good or bad news not sure which, I just checked some golden sabre rounds on my 45 on both 45s actually and they do the same thing they do on your 9mm. I dont have any 9mm golden sabers to check in my Sig 9mm.

I compared the 45 golden sabre to a Winchester silvertip, which does not fit in the bbl and the silvertip cartridge overall length is slightly longer (bullet only, case is same). I didn't measure the exact difference yet.

I suspect the golden sabres are made this way on purpose since both your 9mm rounds and the 45 rounds do the same thing. It appears the fat part of the bullet is in the case in its entirety (or only a few thousands of an inch above the case mouth) If you want I will take one apart and get diminsional data on the fat part of the bullet to see if it is in spec.

Just to let you know I don't see a significant performance difference (shooting paper) between the silvertips and the golden sabre. For accuracy testing take the shooter out as much as possible by using a bench rest, sand bags etc.

yeah man, if you want to pull one that would be awesome :thumbup.

I still have my mic out, so I am going to check the overall case and bullet length of the Speers to the winchesters too.

Well damn, my mitutoyo mic doesnt go big enough to take that measurement, and i learned today that my calipers are dead (digital) and I dont have a spare battery :thumbdown.

Well I pulled the .45 bullet. According to both speer and hornady reloading manuals it should measure .451" My caliper says it measures .450" at the part that was in the case.

The bullet has a shoulder that the case covers. The case mouth is crimped just at the top of the bullets shoulder. The bullet measures .441 just ahead of the shoulder and that is the measurement you are taking on your bullet. Once extracted the bullet will not fit all the way in the barrel.

I will try to get a good picture of the bullet to post so you can see its design.

Here is a picture (http://home.roadrunner.com/~dnac/Golden%20Sabre%2045.jpg) of the 45 bullet from a golden sabre. You can see the shoulder at the back of the bullet. That shoulder is concealed when it is inserted into the case and crimped.

They should shoot fine!

Interesting, and thanks :cheers

:blink

Thats new to me also:dunno

yeah, never seen that. Good to know though, at least I feel better :dunno

Interesting, and thanks :cheers
You are very welcome! Now order some batteries for that caliper, and let us know which shoot better the Gold dots or the Golden Sabre!!

You are very welcome! Now order some batteries for that caliper, and let us know which shoot better the Gold dots or the Gplden Sabre!!

Double Tap FTW:cheers

Will do :cheers



Hey V2, want to be my test dummy on which one hurts more :D

Will do :cheers



Hey V2, want to be my test dummy on which one hurts more :D

Haha.

Somebody beat me to it about pulling a bullet to measure it. That is interesting the way that bullet is shouldered.

Its a flying ashtray!

Here is a picture (http://home.roadrunner.com/~dnac/Golden%20Sabre%2045.jpg) of the 45 bullet from a golden sabre. You can see the shoulder at the back of the bullet. That shoulder is concealed when it is inserted into the case and crimped.

They should shoot fine!

This.

The .40 bullets are the same. Remington does this because the jacket on that bullet is brass, not copper. If the bearing surface were the same as a copper jacketed bullet, it would [probably] get stuck in the barrel, because brass is much harder.

These bullets (Remington GS) do not shoot well in polygon-rifled barrels, like H&Ks. At least for me....

The bullet is not supposed to fit from that end. It should stick out a very small amount. Not go all the way inside the barrel. If it fits like that from the front, of course it will fit from the chamber end, probably even sloppier.
I misread what he was asking. My bad. I thought he was saying the round was to big. I glanced quickly at the pic.