The 1100 engine is back in the frame; all I'm lacking are a couple of valve shims (which will be here shortly, thanks to the great service I get from RON AYERS MOTORSPORTS) to button it up, reconnect a few wires, and light it off.

Suzuki changed the cams for this engine for the start of the '95 model year; articles from that era mention "revised cam timing for more midrange torque" but specifics are kinda thin. I bought a spare head last year to cannibalize... it turned out to be a '93 - '94 vintage and came with two very serviceable stock cams mounted in stock un-slotted sprockets so I was curious to see how the cams compared.

Since I'm in a holding pattern until the shims show up I figured this evening was the ideal time to mount up a degree wheel and see just what the cam-phasing differences really amounted to... the results turned out to be kinda neat.

The "early" cams in stock sprockets installed at (0.050" lift, 0.004"-ish lash included) IO 15° IC 46° (105.5°) / EO 41° EC 10° (105.5°)(I'm leaving out all of the usual BTDC/ABDC/BBDC/ATDC stuff, but you know what I mean)... appx 240° intake duration, 231° exhaust duration. As anyone who's been around GSXRs for a few years can tell ya, the neutral 105/105 phasing is a classic combination for these mills.

Swapping in the "late" cams that came with my '96 bike yielded IO 18° IC 40° (101°) / EO 37° EC 6° (105.5°). Now we know how the "revised cam timing for more midrange" came about- the engineers pulled a little duration out of both sides and went to 101i/106e to pump up the torque.

So, our dear Mother Suzuki has thoughtfully provided me with several intriguing potential combinations which will simply bolt into the stock sprockets without all of the usual dithering with the degree wheel. Installing the "late" intake cam with the "early" exhaust is one setup that interests me in particular; the bike does have a Yosh 4:2:1 exhaust on it and might indeed be able to exploit the additional overlap and longer exhaust timing to good effect.

If late/early is too dull, I can go to early/early or early/late for what should be a noticeable shift in emphasis toward top-end power. Hell, I've still got a set of slotted sprockets here so I can always twist in whatever I want anyway.

The rest of the combination is 1195 x 12.2:1 (measured) CR, 40mm CV's... I did a "Motoman"-style epoxy job on the head (have some pics, if anyone is interested to see them) so I'm expecting the old whore to move along in pretty good style.

Ed

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It's good to see someone getting their engine finished! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

For what it's worth.... Yoshimura stage 2 cams for the GSXR1100W have the following specs... Intake: 10.0 lift / 252 degrees duration. Exhaust: 8.8 lift / 236 degrees duration

Oh, and I would be interested in seeing those pics......

Here are some links; I took several of the photos with the camera on a large-format setting, so these could be back-breakers if you're on a dial-up connection.

Stock port on the spare head; calipers show the amount of reduction I ended up using (about 65%):
http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/no_epoxy.JPG

A look into a filled port, normal lighting:
http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/epoxy3.JPG

Backlit... the APE guides are cut flush with the port roof but don't fill the space; looks worse than it is:
http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/epoxy2.JPG

The entire path through airbox boot down, carbs held WFO with slides out:
http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/Wfo.jpg

Same "airflow path" shot, but with carbs at appx "cruise" throttle setting... this is where this should shine brightest:
http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/cruise1.JPG

lol Thanks, but I'll pass on the 10.0mm [0.393"] lift cams... I was running the Web 0.377" (100/101grind pair) when this engine failure cascade started with a dropped valve.

Ed

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gsxr1198 said:

lol Thanks, but I'll pass on the 10.0mm [0.393"] lift cams... I was running the Web 0.377" (100/101grind pair) when this engine failure cascade started with a dropped valve.

Ed

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Oh I agree with you completely on the 10mm issue.....I think anything over 9mm is asking for trouble with these watercooled engines!! I know if I ever put an aftermarket cam in my engine it will be the 352 grind from Web Cam......

Nah- be brave! ...what could go wrong ~? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/crank.JPG

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif

Are you still going to run the web cams, or are they damaged too?

I haven't had any problems with the Cams or valvetrain in my bike, but I'm still using stock vavle springs. I've heard that all the aftermarket springs suck for these bikes.

How's the B12 Running?

gsxr1198 said:

Here are some links;

...

Ed




...I'm *far* too lazy for all of that foolishness... and I'm bored, and there's photoshop installed on this computer; so:

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/no_epoxy.jpg

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/epoxy3.jpg

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/epoxy2.jpg

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/Wfo.jpg

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/cruise1.jpg

Thank you kindly, Cat http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Edsterrrrrr-r-r-r-r LTNS ...the Web exhaust cam is unscathed, but a couple of lobes on the intake side took heavy hits... have considered having them repair it and re-grind it to the #55 grind but I dunno when I'll get around to it.

Yeah, springs are a wildcard for this engine... Carolina Cycle hooked me up with a set that Kibblewhite is making now; it consists of a spring base (springs are slightly shorter than OEM), double springs (yay), and Ti retainer- sixteen of each. Don't think I told you but I did eventually find an intake valve with the keeper groove pulled off when I was doing the post mortem; that's probably what started the whole mess.

For shits 'n grins I put the '96 cam pair back in it, set the lash, and buttoned up the rocker cover last night... it'll start this weekend for sure now (who knows, maybe I'll light it up this evening).

Ed

Oh, I forgot... the B12 is running great; I put a couple of pulls on my normal running-around-on-pump-gas combo back at the end of August:

http://home.carolina.rr.com/ehenderson/082903dyno.jpg

Had some printer issues at Lee's and couldn't get the normal hp + torque printout; as you can kinda tell I'd wadded that one up then had to pull it back out of the wastebasket. It's a lot of fun to ride around that way (208rwhp, 117tq); mild as a kitten until you call for boost.

Ed

gsxr1198 said:

Thank you kindly, Cat http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

Carolina Cycle hooked me up with a set that Kibblewhite is making now; it consists of a spring base (springs are slightly shorter than OEM), double springs (yay), and Ti retainer- sixteen of each.

Ed



Ed, how much $$$ did the new valve sprink kit set you back? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

i know exactly what you are going thru with those dropped/broken valves...the problem is the head of the valve is too heavy/big which causes them to pop off real easy...we convert the head to 5mm stuff and that solves the problem for good...if you really push these bikes hard and want to eliminate that issue then that's the way to go....

dwayne

how much $$$ did the new valve spring kit set you back?



The invoice is around here somewhere... IIRC just under $300. I was gonna put in fresh springs and go to Ti retainers anyway, so it wasn't outta line.

Appreciate the head's-up, Dwayne; yeah, they really are just weensy little stems for such a big valve. I don't plan to push it nearly as hard as I was for a while; kinda hoping *not* to go back in there again http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ed, good luck to you on that one...i hope that you don't have to go back in it cause those trype of jobs really hurt the pocket...i know, i broke a valve three times in a row and it was driving me crazy trying to figure it out...that was a couple of years ago and all has been well since the conversion...c-ya around!!!!

dwayne

gsxr1198 said:


So, our dear Mother Suzuki has thoughtfully provided me with several intriguing potential combinations which will simply bolt into the stock sprockets without all of the usual dithering with the degree wheel. Installing the "late" intake cam with the "early" exhaust is one setup that interests me in particular; the bike does have a Yosh 4:2:1 exhaust on it and might indeed be able to exploit the additional overlap and longer exhaust timing to good effect.

If late/early is too dull, I can go to early/early or early/late for what should be a noticeable shift in emphasis toward top-end power. Hell, I've still got a set of slotted sprockets here so I can always twist in whatever I want anyway.


Ed

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Ed,

I've wondered about this type of cam tuning myself, having been born with an allergy to broken valves and springs...I even bought some late 750 cams to fiddle with, but haven't done much with them yet.

What do you think about Factory's assessment that the late cams pumped up midrange w/o sacrificing any top end? Maybe w/ a motor that breathes like yours, the diff in top end would be more noticable? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I think it's a about time you installed a few combos, and published the results of a few pulls... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

What do you think about Factory's assessment that the late cams pumped up midrange w/o sacrificing any top end?



I'd be inclined to take Marc's word for it... he's a bright guy. I ran the early GSXR cams in my B12 for quite a while; setting them at 102i/106e didn't seem to cost me anything on top compared to phasing in the 105/105 range and it plainly made the bike pull harder through the midrange... between the revised opening/closing timing and the reduced duration (compared to the "early" 1100w cams) it wouldn't surprise me to hear that the engine made more power with the later numbers.


Maybe w/ a motor that breathes like yours, the diff in top end would be more noticable?



Hard to say; adding 120+cc to the displacement is going to tend to calm any of the grinds down a little... once I get some seat time on it with the present setup (i.e., "late" cams in stock location) I'll swap back to the early cams and let you know how it responds. I also want to try the early cams installed at something like 102° - 103° intake / 106° - 108° exhaust to see if I can catch the best of both worlds.

Ed

Brief update:

1. Bike is running, and I've got about 250 miles on it at this point. Did a cold leakdown yesterday just to see where it's at; all four are around 2%, with none as much as 3% http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

2. Started with late/late cams in stock (unslotted) sprockets... no problem pulling over 11k with the "small" epoxied ports. Engine has very good midrange power... 5k-to-7500 range is very punchy.

3. Swapped in the "early" intake cam, also in OEM position (left in "late" exhaust cam)... this combo changes timing to 105/105-ish but has 4° less overlap than either early/early or late/late. Only put about 40 miles on it but did have the chance to twist it WFO a few times... midrange is very similar to late/late but top end feels stronger; engine pulls very hard to eleven-plus in third (that's all I had room for- pre-Thanksgiving law enforcement was heavy).

Still working a few small kinks out of the low-end carburetion but overall am having a blast on the bike... obviously it doesn't deliver the unreal rush of the (turbo) B12 but it's still got plenty of balls. It's been 'down' for so long I don't really have a clear memory of how it felt with the big Web grinds but it certainly has better thrust under seven grand (judging by the ease of pulling the front end up).

Looks like the epoxy deal was all "upside" with no negatives to me, folks...

Ed

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gsxr1198 said:


Looks like the epoxy deal was all "upside" with no negatives to me, folks...

Ed

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So Ed what are you charging for epoxing the ports.

Jim