Ok, I know I'm not a racer like you guys and I probably never will be or as fast but I would like to get your input on something. Over the summer I started doing trackdays. On my first one I was getting a lot of chatter when hard on the brakes so I got my forks re sprung and revalved which worked out great. Now, I didn't have the money for a shock too. So my question is, do need to get a shock too? Or since I am still a track newbie (4 track days), is it really even worth it? I was thinking of just leaving the stock one on there and working on my riding skills but some people have told me to get a shock because it is stupid to have a worked front but a shit rear. Thanks for the help. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

this is my 2 cents
if it isn't working change it
if it works for ya, leave it alone
my 2 cents

First, I would suggest talking to other trackday riders, possibly in the trackday forum rather than here (I woulud suggest keeping the trackday questions to there rather than here). Many racers make sure they have the best possibly equipment in order to chase down the perfect setup and drop 10th of seconds off their laptimes and gain an advantage over their competition, so the advice may not be applicable.

The main question is "Do you feel a problem with the rear?"

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Rear shock is usually most helpful when making your drive out of corner on a rough surface and/or enter corners extremely hot to the point that the rear is sliding around. Front end confidence is much more important in my opinion, which is why you had the forks done.

I see plenty of racers out there on stock Suzuki shocks, so I can't imagine why it wouldn't work for trackday riders.

-----

Now everyone hurry up and get your flame of me in here quick before this thread gets locked down.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It doesn't bother me now so why bother changing it. Thanks for the advice.

BTW, PDG, I asked in here because I would be willing to bet that most of the track day guys probably don't know the true benefits of top of the line suspension. Racers do so since they usually have a larger breath of knowledge they (you) would be able to give me a better recommendation like you just did. It's kind of like if you had a computer question...would you ask a recent college graduate or someone who has been working on computers for the last 20 years.

PDG is absolutely right on this one, if all you are doing is trackdays your stock shock should be more than sufficient however you can also have that shock resprung which could help you out, you are in NY so take a sprint to CT and bring it to mike at GMD

Nice, thanks Fever. You just saved me some loot. BTW, I ended up getting the same suit you have. And I crash tested it as well. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Got a nice hole in the forearm but that's it.

NJ_GSXR_1K said:
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Got a nice hole in the forearm but that's it.



I believe he does too. Thats NOT a good sign of a quality suit.

PDG said:


NJ_GSXR_1K said:
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Got a nice hole in the forearm but that's it.



I believe he does too. Thats NOT a good sign of a quality suit.



That's what i was thinking. I kind of expected more from Alpinestars to be honest. It does fit nice though. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

you can also get your stock shock revalved as well as a new spring

How much does that cost though? If I'm going to go through the trouble of that I might as well just get a new shock no?

My question is this... If you had the front resprung, do you need the rear resprung also? Is the stock spring set up for your weight? My initial guess would be no. In most cases, if you need to change the spring rate in the front, you need to do it in the back as well.

If not, you should at the least have the rear resprung. This may or may not require also changing the valving.

Look at it this way... if you were to heavy for the bike (front & rear needed to be resprung), and you just went up to a heavier spring in the front, you'd then be transferring even more weight to the rear, which was already sprung too light to handle the initial load. Same with the opposite scenario... if you were too light for the springs, and you went down a rate in the front, then you're transferring even more weight off the rear which is already oversprung in the first place.

Speaking generally - most people would be making things much worse for themselves by only respringing one end of the bike.

LeanAngle said:

My question is this... If you had the front resprung, do you need the rear resprung also? Is the stock spring set up for your weight? My initial guess would be no. In most cases, if you need to change the spring rate in the front, you need to do it in the back as well.

If not, you should at the least have the rear resprung. This may or may not require also changing the valving.

Look at it this way... if you were to heavy for the bike (front & rear needed to be resprung), and you just went up to a heavier spring in the front, you'd then be transferring even more weight to the rear, which was already sprung too light to handle the initial load. Same with the opposite scenario... if you were too light for the springs, and you went down a rate in the front, then you're transferring even more weight off the rear which is already oversprung in the first place.



Ok, so what should I do? Just get a spring? Just get a new shock? I really haven't had any problems with the rear shock that's why I am hesitant to replace it.

If your sag no. don't work out correctly then you should respring, one way or the other. I'll let someone else explain what to look for with the no.. I'll let PDG or BMF do the explaining. If I got the letters wrong I'm sorry. Doing it from memory.

Philbie said:

If your sag no. don't work out correctly then you should respring, one way or the other. I'll let someone else explain what to look for with the no.. I'll let PDG or BMF do the explaining. If I got the letters wrong I'm sorry. Doing it from memory.



Ok, gotcha. I know what you are talking about. Thanks for the help guys.

NJ_GSXR_1K said:

Nice, thanks Fever. You just saved me some loot. BTW, I ended up getting the same suit you have. And I crash tested it as well. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Got a nice hole in the forearm but that's it.

anytime bro, bro i love my suit it's comfortable and crashed well, the hole in the fore arm is expected as it is common if you hit the pavement on that part since it's that stretch material. a lot of the newer suits are like that unless you get a full leather everywhere type of suit, even the custom vansons are like ours... so i'm glad you decided to go with the alpinestars

well, dont knock yourself dude. but, realistically if you can get proper sag set in the rear then you would be ok for now. but as you pick up the pace (which always happens with more track time) you will want a shock. set your sag, and then play around with the settings. if you cant find a setting that feels good out back then pick up a shock, set your sag, and start again. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

PDG said:

First, I would suggest talking to other trackday riders, possibly in the trackday forum rather than here (I woulud suggest keeping the trackday questions to there rather than here). Many racers make sure they have the best possibly equipment in order to chase down the perfect setup and drop 10th of seconds off their laptimes and gain an advantage over their competition, so the advice may not be applicable.





pdg,

he is obviously asking in here because we would more likely than not have more knowledge on shocks than a trackday rider. so it makes logical sense to ask in here. i would be willing to bet that most guys in the trackday forum wouldnt have as much info on this as in the clubracer forum. what most guys are doing today is going from street to trackdays, and trackdays to racing. and the easiest way for trackday goers to get info is to ask the racers. and where do the racers hang out... well, in club racer. come on bro.

LeanAngle said:

Speaking generally - most people would be making things much worse for themselves by only respringing one end of the bike.





Except that most streetbikes are sprung much more stiff in the back so that they can handle the load of a passenger.

A couple of people have already said it - check your sag numbers first, then decide whether you should re-spring. Pop for a revalve when the shock needs to be rebuilt or if your lap times are getting within 5% of the top racer times

Thank you gentlemen. As far as the shock now, it is set up by Washington Cycle Works. I'm not entirely sure if the sag is spot on but I know it's close. I think I'll wait for a nice new shock to be honest. Maybe for the 2005 season. I need to work on myself first I think.

Fever, actually I got a hole in the leather. But when I crashed I didn't let go of the bike so I basically slid on that spot of my arm and my ass the whole time. No holes in the ass though. You're right though, it is super comfy and I'll prob. stay with Alpinestars.

BMF, thanks for helping to clarify everything. You guys are a wealth of knowledge which is why I asked in here. You are a true gentleman. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

[/QUOTE]

Except that most streetbikes are sprung much more stiff in the back so that they can handle the load of a passenger.

A couple of people have already said it - check your sag numbers first, then decide whether you should re-spring. Pop for a revalve when the shock needs to be rebuilt or if your lap times are getting within 5% of the top racer times

[/QUOTE]

Uh, actually, no they aren't.

Secondly, if you are going to do the front (I highly suggest) and you are going to leave the rear alone - you are wasting money.

Do the front for sure - the front even at a track day pace is going to get much more of a work out than it would on the street. The fronts on current bikes (and rears) are too soft and therefore need stiffer springs. Sure, you could dial in so much spring tension to get the numbers you want in sag, but the thing will be so freakin' stiff that it is not going to respond well.

At worst, check ebay and look for a rear shock. I saw a guy on here in the for sale that had a Fox TC-R for a 1000 and was looking at about $500 for it. That's cheap. plus, you can rebuild and recharge it, etc. instead of dealing with an oem stocker.

You can also do the respring and revalve to the stocker. Cheaper and actually the stockers aren't too bad - at least for semi aggressive riding. The problem with stockers is that you'll run into some times where you'll be limited on adjustability - that's all.

My opinion? Do the fronts for certain. If at least change the oil and respring them - that would make a huge improvement. Valving would be the best, but to save cash, the fronts on a 1000 (up to the 2002) are pretty shitty units stock and anything helps.

The rear? Do the used shock or at worst, revalve and respring the oem. That way, you'll be able to fine tune the thing to match the ability you'll have in the front. Also, don't forget to buy some spacers. It's like $20 for the ones from Traxxion. You need the ass up on any of the GSXR bikes to turn well. Changing your ride height will effect your sag and adjustments you've made to your stock set-up.

Remember, a few hundred bucks can mean the difference between fighting and enjoying. And on a 1000, fighting isn't any fun...

Just to add to the excellent advice BMF & Lizard gave you...

Setting up the correct sag is the first step. And like BMF said, if you can get good sag figures front & rear, it will probably be just fine. But remember, you have to have the correct free sag also. If you're not sagging at least 4-6mm in the back under the bike's weight alone (straight up & down, on a flat surface), your rear spring is not going to work well for you. You could take just about any spring in the back and get a good sag figure with it by cranking a ton of preload into it. But your response is going to suffer, especially when the rear end is not fully loaded up. And you'll throw your damping way off, possibly to the point of it being ineffectual.

Also remember that having an overly soft rear end may feel good to you because in many cases, especially if you're not up to a race pace, it can give you good rear end traction. As long as you're not bottoming out the back end (which is hard even with soft springs), having a sagged-out rear end feels really good when the only thing you're considering is how to put power to the ground. Where you'll notice it's drawbacks is when you can't hold a tight line accelerating out of corners (people will be passing you inside while you fight to keep the bike from running wide), or on corner entry when it's hard getting the bike to turn in tight in the first place.

Ok, well, I got the forks re sprung and race tech valves installed. I don't know my exact sag numbers on the rear so I'll check with my shop to see if they are where they need to be. If not I will price the rebuilt oem vs. an aftermarket shock. I was actually thinking about having the rear softened a bit because I get wheelspin all over the place if I'm not careful. Thanks again for the help guys! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Lizard 1 said:





Except that most streetbikes are sprung much more stiff in the back so that they can handle the load of a passenger.

A couple of people have already said it - check your sag numbers first, then decide whether you should re-spring. Pop for a revalve when the shock needs to be rebuilt or if your lap times are getting within 5% of the top racer times

[/QUOTE]

Uh, actually, no they aren't.


[/QUOTE]

Actually, they are stiffer in comparison to how soft the front is. They may not be as stiff *as needed* which is why I said check the sag first. I have no idea how much the guy weighs, but you do not always need to go to a stiffer spring in the back. I know lighter racers (130 - 140 pound range) that have needed *lighter* rear springs than stock. I have never heard of anyone that needed lighter fork springs.

dpwracing said:


Lizard 1 said:





Except that most streetbikes are sprung much more stiff in the back so that they can handle the load of a passenger.

A couple of people have already said it - check your sag numbers first, then decide whether you should re-spring. Pop for a revalve when the shock needs to be rebuilt or if your lap times are getting within 5% of the top racer times



Uh, actually, no they aren't.


[/QUOTE]

Actually, they are stiffer in comparison to how soft the front is. They may not be as stiff *as needed* which is why I said check the sag first. I have no idea how much the guy weighs, but you do not always need to go to a stiffer spring in the back. I know lighter racers (130 - 140 pound range) that have needed *lighter* rear springs than stock. I have never heard of anyone that needed lighter fork springs.

[/QUOTE]


What?????

Dude, take a 750. The rear spring rate is well short of what is needed for the track. Sure, a rider's weight needs to be taken into account for a spring selection, but take the 1000 - it puts a shit load more on the ground than a 600 or 750 and so, it will tend to squat more under acceleration - it also is a bit heavier and transfers weight more than it's little brothers. So, that's why the 1000 essentially gets a heavier rated spring stock - not because it is intended for two up riding. Also, it is very close, but in race or aggressive track days, the rear will squat too much under load and will be in need of a stiffer spring.

Sure, if the guy only weighs in at 130 lbs it may be ok, but most guys are in the 160 - 180 range and the rear isn't enough.

The it is stiffer because it is made for 2 up kills me. Nice try, but not the intended use on any of these machines. Take the front caliper shields. They aren't for anything other than to keep the pads from rattling in street conditions. Street guys want a softer ride and not too aggressive stiff ride. Try a race bike that is set up properly for the track - stiffer than a board. Hit a bridge seam and it feels like your teeth are coming out.

Trust me dude - if you are over 150-160 lbs, pay for a respring and tell the guy you take it to that you want it set up for track/racing. Don't tell them you will be street riding - they'll pick a softer spring rate. Look at Fox's shocks - they come too soft and the spring rate needs changed typically for the typical racer.

I have a Fox Tc-r and I am very happy with it!!

First though I would go through your bike and set the sag!!! Try it out, mess with the suspension a little and see if you can't improve the stock settup.

If your still not happy go with an aftermarket setup!!! Just about everything out there is good and you have a large variaety of manufacturers to chose from ranging from Ohlins to Penski, Fox, White Broth's, WP and some others!!

Lizard 1 said:
What?????

Dude, take a 750. The rear spring rate is well short of what is needed for the track. Sure, a rider's weight needs to be taken into account for a spring selection, but take the 1000 - it puts a shit load more on the ground than a 600 or 750 and so, it will tend to squat more under acceleration - it also is a bit heavier and transfers weight more than it's little brothers. So, that's why the 1000 essentially gets a heavier rated spring stock - not because it is intended for two up riding. Also, it is very close, but in race or aggressive track days, the rear will squat too much under load and will be in need of a stiffer spring.

Sure, if the guy only weighs in at 130 lbs it may be ok, but most guys are in the 160 - 180 range and the rear isn't enough.

The it is stiffer because it is made for 2 up kills me. Nice try, but not the intended use on any of these machines. Take the front caliper shields. They aren't for anything other than to keep the pads from rattling in street conditions. Street guys want a softer ride and not too aggressive stiff ride. Try a race bike that is set up properly for the track - stiffer than a board. Hit a bridge seam and it feels like your teeth are coming out.

Trust me dude - if you are over 150-160 lbs, pay for a respring and tell the guy you take it to that you want it set up for track/racing. Don't tell them you will be street riding - they'll pick a softer spring rate. Look at Fox's shocks - they come too soft and the spring rate needs changed typically for the typical racer.



Fact: Manufacturers have to take two up riding into account. Why do you think Suzuki recommends 42psi in the rear tire? They sure as hell know that it doesn't give you optimum grip, but on the other hand it will keep the rear tire from failing if you're blasting down the desert at 150mph with the 200 lb "honey" you just picked up. Same line of reasoning on why the rear spring is comparatively stiffer than the front on a stock bike. I don't know WTF your point is about the brake caliper shields, I am well aware they are only there to quiet down the rattle.

LOL! A racetrack setup should be board stiff? Might be ok on a 600 or even a slower rider on a 750, but let me know how that works on your 1000. Good, well-set up suspension should deliver a firm, but plush and forgiving ride. A "board stiff" setup on a 1000 will have you spinning all the way around the track and eventually highsiding halfway to the moon.

Dude, I am not going to sit here and argue with a guy who believes he should set the psi at 42 for the tires because the manual says so. What you are missing is that the tires MAX psi COLD is 42. That's not what the tire should be set at for "2-up riding". A tire designed to carry more weight is developed with a stiffer side wall - not by adding more air. Sure, more air will hold more weight, but it also will blow out if the sidewall can't handle it. You think a Ford F350 SD has the same tires as a Ford F150, but they just add more air? The bigger trucks have tires with heavier duty sidewalls than light duty trucks. Yes, they need more air, but it is due to construction - not weight added. Look at a Goldwing. It has a tire that has a stiffer sidewall. Why? It IS designed for carrying more weight. If the designers intended the bike to be carrying 2 people consistantly, instead of the GSXR's being designed as a platform for racing and sport riding, they would have put on Goldwing tires and dual air shocks...

Your theory about stiff rear and soft front from the factory because they intend on having people do two up riding makes zero sense and shows that you are missing something.

Firstly, if the bike was set stiff on the rear and soft on the front for 2-up, it is a stupid set-up. Why? What the "F" happens when you hit the brakes? A little physics lesson here - the bike and it's passenger's weight goes forward. So, if the front is set soft (which it is) then, what happens? NOSE DIVE CITY. So, if you honestly believe the rear is set stiff for passengers and the front will always be too soft, how does it make sense that if the manufacturers set their bikes up for 2-up riding, why on Earth would they set the front so soft when spring binding is much more possible with two people on the machine? Are you picking up what I am laying down here?

Also, do you agree that the spring rate is heavier on the 1000 than it is on the 600 and 750? Do you know why? What, the 1000 is intended to haul heavier people since it is bigger in cc's? It is because of the load that is thrown back onto the rear wheel because of the power and weight of the machine. More load on the rear equates into the need for a stiffer rated spring.

Here's the problem with people who don't understand suspension. One, you think a stiff rear is going to cause spin up. Well, if your ass end is too high, it will. If the ass is too high and the rear is too stiff, it will. But, a stiffer rate spring will not cause the rear to become too stiff. You are missing some key issues.

First, you need a higher spring rate for racing than street. Why? When's the last time you loaded the rear or front like you do on the track? Never - unless you panic brake or hamfist the throttle, etc.

Second, with the higher spring rate, you need to set more than just sag. What is just worrying about sag going to accomplish if the rebound, compression and ride height are all out of whack? You need to get the ride height right, get the sag set to about 33mm +/-, and get your compression and rebound sorted which is something having a whole track day can help with.

Finally, if the front isn't set in terms of sag, front end height, compression and rebound, it matters jack shit what the rear is set at. Get the point? Front and rear need to be set to work in harmony. Some guys think the rear is too stiff because when they come into a hard braking turn that the rear getting dribbling like a basketball. When, in fact, it very well could be that the front is too stiff. So, getting the harmony between front and rear is so important that it is a must - especially for a racer.

Now, w/o causing an arguement here, if the guy questioning all this is under 150 lbs, I would leave your shock alone and just have it revalved for track day use. If you are like the majority and over 160 lbs, I would put on a higher rate spring and have it at least revalved. Also, do the wise thing and get some cash and spend it on a good shock. The difference between revalving and respringing the rear and a good rear aftermarket is close enough to go the latter. You'll love the adjustability and feel of the aftermarket one. That is, if you do the front and don't set your tire psi anywhere NEAR 42 psi...

Lizard 1 said:


Now, w/o causing an arguement here, if the guy questioning all this is under 150 lbs, I would leave your shock alone and just have it revalved for track day use. If you are like the majority and over 160 lbs, I would put on a higher rate spring and have it at least revalved. Also, do the wise thing and get some cash and spend it on a good shock. The difference between revalving and respringing the rear and a good rear aftermarket is close enough to go the latter. You'll love the adjustability and feel of the aftermarket one. That is, if you do the front and don't set your tire psi anywhere NEAR 42 psi...



Thanks dude. The front is already done with springs and race tech stuff. I weigh about 210 lbs. w/o leathers. Both ends are already set up. The front seems to be spot on and the rear is set up as best it can. I'll have to double check on the sag #'s though. Thanks again.

Lizard 1 said:
Big Snip





Lizard - you really need to go back and refresh on reading comprehension 101. Where did I say that *I* recommended 42 psi? I also never said a stiffer rear spring will cause the rear to become too stiff. I said a "board stiff" (your words) setup that would "rattle your teeth on expansion joints" is wrong and would cause it to spin up. In fact, often stiffer spring rates will actually deliver a plusher ride as the suspension is riding higher in the stroke (obviously depends on your compression/rebound settings as well).

Now that we know his weight (210lbs) the rider originally asking the question will definitely need a stiffer spring. I'm a little heavier than him and use a 450 lb spring so that may be a good starting point (assuming this is to be used on a racebike)

Final thing - your patronizing tone and arrogant demeanor only serve to show how insecure you truly are. Let me know when you'll be at Willow Springs so we can find out if you can dish it out on the track as easily as you think you can on the keyboard.

Just a few points...

Some sportbike's come with street recommendations of 42 PSI in the tires. My Honda did. May or may not be because of 2-up riding expectations, but it would seem to make sense.

While Racetech does usually set up with softer springs in the front & rear compared to other major suspension tuners, it appears that the ratio of front/rear rates is pretty much in line with other tuning companies. Their website makes it really easy to find out spring rate info... and one finds that, in all cases, the rear spring rate goes up less from stock than the front does. If you enter info on a 160lb rider, they suggest the stock spring rate in the back, but a higher than stock in the front. Once again, I don't know whether this was intended for 2-up riding, but DPW's assertions would seem to make sense.

As I think both DPW & Lizard agree... if you're very much heavier than 160 or so, and setting up a bike for the track, you're going to want to go up in rear spring rate as well. You just probably won't be going up as much in rear spring rate as you do in the front.

With the new info... (210 lbs without gear?)... I don't see how the hell you're riding that bike with a stock spring in the back and higher rate springs in the front. It was already way undersprung in the back before you shifted even more weight back by respringing the front. Once again - it may feel like you're getting good traction (which is why you seem to not notice any problems with it), but it must steer like a tractor. And if you've bumped up the preload on that stock spring to get the correct sag, it's going to suck ass. Here's what will happen... while you have the rear end loaded up, the bike will steer wide, but feel good in the back. Once you get the bike fairly well straightened up and the rear end unloads, it will spin up, as your shock tops out.

LeanAngle said:

With the new info... (210 lbs without gear?)... I don't see how the hell you're riding that bike with a stock spring in the back and higher rate springs in the front. It was already way undersprung in the back before you shifted even more weight back by respringing the front. Once again - it may feel like you're getting good traction (which is why you seem to not notice any problems with it), but it must steer like a tractor. And if you've bumped up the preload on that stock spring to get the correct sag, it's going to suck ass. Here's what will happen... while you have the rear end loaded up, the bike will steer wide, but feel good in the back. Once you get the bike fairly well straightened up and the rear end unloads, it will spin up, as your shock tops out.





That's pretty much what it does actually! Wow, you're good! It steers pretty heavy but I figured that was from my damper. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif (Ohlins). I do get a lot of wheel spin though if I'm not careful with the throttle. I figured that was just because it was a 1000. It does seem like the bike wants to run wide a lot though. I figured it was just because I was getting faster though. Damn. I don't know shit. So I guess a new shock WILL make a big difference. Thanks Lean!

Here's a pic of me at my last track day. Notice how far I am from the apex cone. I was having a tough time hitting that apex because the bike felt like it wanted to run wide everytime. And when I got back on the gas it would spin pretty easy. I guess I know why now. Thanks for the help again Lean!
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/anthony.jpg

you also ned to get off the bike more.. by the picture you posted..

and i had LE do my stock rear shock on the 1000 was $350 and they revalved and resprung it., and it works great.,.

davegsxrold929r said:

you also ned to get off the bike more.. by the picture you posted..

and i had LE do my stock rear shock on the 1000 was $350 and they revalved and resprung it., and it works great.,.





I know. It feels like I am way off the bike though. Something to work on next season. Well for only a couple hundred more dollars I think I will just get a Fox shock or something. Thanks for the help.

dpwracing said:


Lizard 1 said:
Big Snip





Lizard - you really need to go back and refresh on reading comprehension 101. Where did I say that *I* recommended 42 psi? I also never said a stiffer rear spring will cause the rear to become too stiff. I said a "board stiff" (your words) setup that would "rattle your teeth on expansion joints" is wrong and would cause it to spin up. In fact, often stiffer spring rates will actually deliver a plusher ride as the suspension is riding higher in the stroke (obviously depends on your compression/rebound settings as well).

Now that we know his weight (210lbs) the rider originally asking the question will definitely need a stiffer spring. I'm a little heavier than him and use a 450 lb spring so that may be a good starting point (assuming this is to be used on a racebike)

Final thing - your patronizing tone and arrogant demeanor only serve to show how insecure you truly are. Let me know when you'll be at Willow Springs so we can find out if you can dish it out on the track as easily as you think you can on the keyboard.



First off Mr. Reading Comprehension 101, I didn't say you recommended - I said coming from a guy who believes you should have 42psi in the tires. You stated that Suzuki recommended and therefore, you insinuated that you believed that it should be more for higher weights. They run those recommendations so that they cover litterally any tire that comes on the bike. If they give a suggested vs. a maximum, they would be liable in the event some dork put in 42 psi and wiped out killing himself. The family would say that they recommended a set psi. The way it is, the MAXIMUM for the tires found on the GSXR line is at 42 psi. It's not recommended to run anywhere near that pressure. Of course, the recommendation to not run that psi is not from Suzuki for liability issues...

The whole "board stiff" comment was made when you take a race set-up bike and ride it on the street - the result is a "board stiff" ride since race set-up is stiffer than street set-up. Again, you are saying I have reading comprehension issues...

Oh, and get off your tough ass mentality. I would be glad to throw down at anytime. Hell, you may be in for a challenge come Jan when I am out there for work. Don't get all tough guy defensive with me - I really could give a shit about how great you are or your accomplishments - I see you listed your championship at the bottom of your sig. That's great. I guess since you are a local club champ that we all need to listen to 100% of what you say. I mean, it is by all means great to win championships, but saying I am insecure and yet, you are the one listing your accomplishments and challenging me to a shoot out. If you want to compare race results and accomplishments, I can gladly give you more than a few regional/local event championship results. But, I don't find it needed to state "I have done this" or, "I have done that". Be happy you have won a championship, but don't use that to back up your arguement. Hell, most racers aren't good tuners so, it really doesn't mean a whole lot...

Anyway, yes, the front will be set at a different stiffness relative to that on the rear from stock. The point is and was that no matter what the scenerio - the rear and the front need stiffened up and need to really be revalved. Putting on a stiffer spring or putting in stiffer fork springs is only a band-aid approach in that you really need to revalve, change the needles in the front and a host of other things including the oil. That way, you'll get full benefit of adjustability front and rear.

Paying $350 for an oem shock to be marginally better than stock seems dumb when you can pay an extra $150 for a great used piece. Granted, you should still take the used shock in for inspection and get the oil and nitro taken care of, but in the end, it would be a much better deal.

holy shit and WOW is all I can say.

There's a forum fight going on with name calling and bad attitudes and I'm not involved? What in gods name is going on here??!?!

PDG said:

holy shit and WOW is all I can say.

There's a forum fight going on with name calling and bad attitudes and I'm not involved? What in gods name is going on here??!?!



hey PDG, you want some, too? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yeah, Lizard, you're right, I must have insinuated the 42psi recommendation. I will make sure to spell it out more clearly for you next time to make sure you can keep up with the conversation. Good grief.

Back to reading comprehension 101 - where did I state that my winning championships should make everyone listen to 100% of what I say? Oh, I must have insinuated that as well. I see. Funny you would bring this up since you don't give a shit. Hey, now that you mention it I would be interested in seeing your results, let me know, will ya?

Also - go back and re-read your own post about the stiff as a board setup. You said, "Hit a bridge seam and it feels like your teeth are coming out." My point is this is plain wrong, well setup suspension should never feel this way. But hey, if you think it should, go for it.

Where are you coming, Willow Springs or Oregon? Didn't think you would take my challenge as "tough ass mentality", after all we are roadracers, right? Racing is what we do, what's wrong with a challenge?

Adam you darn elitist you had better stay outa this!!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sorry had to pitch my two cents!!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif

Stefan said:

Adam you darn elitist you had better stay outa this!!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif





I plan to, these guys are outa my league. They're talking about stock suspensions and stock bikes--two things I know nothing about (except they're both perfectly fine for trackday riders http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

I was just surprised to see a shit slinging match that I hadn't started somehow.

dpwracing said:


PDG said:

holy shit and WOW is all I can say.

There's a forum fight going on with name calling and bad attitudes and I'm not involved? What in gods name is going on here??!?!



hey PDG, you want some, too? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Yeah, Lizard, you're right, I must have insinuated the 42psi recommendation. I will make sure to spell it out more clearly for you next time to make sure you can keep up with the conversation. Good grief.

Back to reading comprehension 101 - where did I state that my winning championships should make everyone listen to 100% of what I say? Oh, I must have insinuated that as well. I see. Funny you would bring this up since you don't give a shit. Hey, now that you mention it I would be interested in seeing your results, let me know, will ya?

Also - go back and re-read your own post about the stiff as a board setup. You said, "Hit a bridge seam and it feels like your teeth are coming out." My point is this is plain wrong, well setup suspension should never feel this way. But hey, if you think it should, go for it.

Where are you coming, Willow Springs or Oregon? Didn't think you would take my challenge as "tough ass mentality", after all we are roadracers, right? Racing is what we do, what's wrong with a challenge?



Bro, let's take this all slowly and see if we actually agree here.

1) The "board stiff" deal was taking a race set-up machine and riding it on the street. The set-up would be too harsh for most riders' tastes. In other words, if you took my 750 with the race set-up it has and rode the street - you and I and other racers may think it to be "ok", but to the normal street guy, it is going to be too stiff. You hit a lot of bridge seams on the track? Pretty smooth out there - well, most tracks, anyways... So, the bridge scenerio was used that if you hit that type of seam with the set-up on a race bike, it would be "board stiff". That's why the street bikes that come out have softer set suspension - it is for a plush smooth and less harsh ride than you get from a race set-up. I don't know about you, but my race bike is set stiff as is most of the other top guys we run with. Stiff isn't the sole culprit of wheelspin - ride height is a major contributor.

2) The whole throwing down thingy you mentioned sounded as if you got a bit ruffled under the feathers and were basically saying that I probably aren't as tough as I sound and that you would essentially put my foot in my mouth for me. That coupled with you listing your local championship seemed to be a bit bragging like. So, I sorta took offense and called you out. I am willing to race anyone and maybe I would win - maybe I would lose, but in any event, I am not at all scared and very confident in my abilities.

3) What's the point of listing my accomplishments? There is always someone else out there that has done more and acheived better. If I list, then it gets into a battle of "Oh, yeah, well, I did this..." Get my point? I will give you a taste - Kawasaki Team Green SUPPORT (Not assist) rider from 1999-2001 (3 years). WERA National Endurance #2 MWSB (Beat by AOD and yet, we were closer in points than anyone has come in many years). WERA NC Regional #2 in 750 SS and 750 SB for the past two years - lost championships both years by only one point http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. There's more, but it isn't worth the shouting. Plus, many others have done much better so, that's all you get from me. I will add that I am VERY deeply involved in the industry, but I am not going to give myself up and let everyone know in what way.

Hope we can agree on something here. The whole thing started with the fact that you mentioned the rear spring rate was actually too stiff for some guys on the 1000. I have yet to see anyone go with a lesser than 450 spring on the big bike - no matter what their weight... I guess what I was trying to get acrossed to the guy asking was that if he seriously wants a track day bike set-up and is willing to sacrifice streetability (You cannot acheive both - it's one or the other), go with a more racelike set-up. In other words go with stiffer front springs, revalve, get the rebound needles done, and change fluids. On the rear, if he can afford it, throw away that shit oem shock and get a proper race type. If not, get a new rear spring, have it revalved, re-charged, and put in some quality oil. That's all I was saying. It all turned into a deal where people were saying that the rear isn't as soft in relationship as the front is compared to what is needed for the track. The fact of the matter is, the front AND rear suck in oem form. They both need higher end valving, better/stiffer springs and better oils. What % compared to stock? Who gives a shit?

Now, I am serious about going to Willow or Laguna for a track day while I am out in CA for work at the first of the year. I really need some shake down time for the new race bike, but I would settle for just some good ol' track time. I would need some learn time, but am a quick study as the last time I was ever there, it was like four years ago...

p.s. dont move me to the for sale forum..LOL

Lizard 1 said:
snip




Well, I think we agree on some points, but disagree on others. Which is fine as there is no one right answer for racebike setup, depends on rider's style, track setup, conditions, etc. In any case, my main beef with you was your dismissive and condescending tone. My original point was that before any spring changes are made the sag should be measured. Sometimes you do not need to change your spring if you are in the right weight range. I think we agree on this. I do personally know one 130lb racer who went lighter than the stock spring on a GSXR, and I know several in th 150 - 170lb range that use a stock rate rear spring (all pretty fast guys). However, all of them do use stiffer fork springs.

So, I am done with this. I'd be happy to meet you at Willow, keep me in the loop.