Hey everyone I had a question about corner entry, when you enter at a speed that would give a high lean angle (kneedragging if not very close to it), how cracked open on the throttle are you and at what point in the turn? Meaning if I straight line brake and let off bakes before turn in, is it barely open (maintenance throttle) all the way to the apex, then accelerate out? I've been thinking about my last crash and trying to figure out what went wrong and how I can prevent it in the future and this could have been the culprit, high entry speed and too much throttle at high lean made me lose it. Also if you were to trail brake into the turn to the apex, you would slowly ease off brakes as you near the apex then start to roll on throttle correct? Anybody have good recommendations for books? I have the MotoGP book about riding techniques and wouldn't mind picking up one or two more texts. Thanks guys.

some times you are reading so many things and trying to do what the text books are saying and you are messing up your riding.
there is not a how to do it text book for advanced riding. you can get some recomadations but you are the one whos fealling the traction.
My recomandation for a knew rider is stop braking before you turn in then start adding throttle. you can add throttle as harder as traction permites.

some times you are reading so many things and trying to do what the text books are saying and you are messing up your riding.
there is not a how to do it text book for advanced riding. you can get some recomadations but you are the one whos fealling the traction.
My recomandation for a knew rider is stop braking before you turn in then start adding throttle. you can add throttle as harder as traction permites.

Good advice just have to ride it just like you can't learn to wheelie from reading a book. Just work on being smooth and feel once you get that feel ur money.

Hey everyone I had a question about corner entry, when you enter at a speed that would give a high lean angle (kneedragging if not very close to it), how cracked open on the throttle are you and at what point in the turn? Meaning if I straight line brake and let off bakes before turn in, is it barely open (maintenance throttle) all the way to the apex, then accelerate out? I've been thinking about my last crash and trying to figure out what went wrong and how I can prevent it in the future and this could have been the culprit, high entry speed and too much throttle at high lean made me lose it. Also if you were to trail brake into the turn to the apex, you would slowly ease off brakes as you near the apex then start to roll on throttle correct? Anybody have good recommendations for books? I have the MotoGP book about riding techniques and wouldn't mind picking up one or two more texts. Thanks guys.

For me, maintenance throttle starts after turn-in is over. I can't think of a way in which I would be able to get on the throttle mid-lean and not upset the bike or cause myself to go wide.

After I'm done braking, and turn-in as been completed, I reset my fingers from two on the lever to four on the grip. Then I crack the throttle, and begin very controlled roll-on. I honestly probably only raise the rpm's by 1000 or so from on-throttle to apex. From the apex I begin to reduce lean and apply prodigious amounts of throttle, j/k. I'm a pussy, so I just do a "motivated" roll-on till I'm upright then I open the it fully.

i dont have that much experience, but i know that no matter how gently i come on the throttle i get an aprupt kick that would upset the chassis if i was leaned over. I usually brake straight in and as soon as im off the brakes, i crack the throttle open, slowly increasing to WOT by the end of the turn

cal: You lost the rear?

Adictionbass, might be a good idea to have your bike details. But I would hazard your chain slack could possibly be the problem, or your right hand.

There are certain techniques to riding which will minimise scary moments, optimize suspension and tyre grip. This will take beginners a fair way but it wont defy the laws of physic's.

You gotta ask yourself sometimes. Am I pushing the bike where I should be pushing technique.

food for thought and its supposed to be cryptic.

There is a massive difference between someone who just tries to go faster, push more entry, jump on the gas harder and earlier. These people crash, then they say they were pushing too hard where ones been lapping quicker then them at only 80%. The correct term is they were being too greedy at the wrong places.

I wouldnt bother with trail braking. I see a lot of people using (intentional or not) where its simply NOT needed.

Get yourself some schooling on the track. Its cheaper then crashing

I don't know exactly what happened but I was pushing way too hard on the street and lowsided even before a knee was going to be dragged. Perhaps I tried to take too tight a line at first and tried to "force" it to follow and that's what did me in. I'm not too sure. I was just asking trail braking questions for thought, I've never trail braked at all on the street nor will I try.

what, on those shitty BT014's we suggested you change in the other thread?

Yup, I thought most said they aren't that bad:dunno. Needless to say I don't trust these anymore and bought some bt-002's.

Yup, I thought most said....blah blah blah

Theres your problem.

But to answer the question... I'm a trailbraker (and to Sucram's point I overbrake a lot) so for me most of the time the throttle is at maintenance while I'm trailing in. Doing this keeps the rear end settled as I release the brake, since the ass of the bike tries to squat even though I'm still braking. It takes awhile to get the brake release right so the nose doesn't shoot up but when I do it right it feels really good.

All that being said, under "normal" circumstances when I tip it in I'm finished braking and I'm at maintenance throttle until just after the apex.

Well, when they are fresh, they arnt that bad.

With proper technique, they arnt that bad and when they do slide, you can control it easily- with proper technique.

When they are old, flat spotted rear, cupped front with multi profiles the contact patch changes depending on the lean angle.

You cant go charging into a corner with them

You cant make accidental mistakes with the throttle or brake, one must be 100% smooth and display a lot of patience with them.

They are not a very forgiving tyre for quick road use.

The front can and will slide without warning. They overheat at the track and slip without warning.

I clearly warned you and it was your choice to ignore it.

Like I already said in this thread already, get yourself to the track or a school. You can thank me later.

Might cost some $$ but dont be tight, think of it as an investment. Dont think about it, do it. In the mean time read twist of the wrist.

Yes I only have myself to blame for it and know for the future, plus I don't blame the tire as much as myself and riding although I know the tire added to the situation and may not have happened on fresh tires. I do appreciate the advice you give and am actually have plans to track in the next couple of months now that I have a back protector in addition to the usual full gear I wear.

A school will be better. Much better.

People go on an on about body position this, trail brake that but you can actually run easily in A grade on a track day without either of those 2 things. Pro's could probably do it on the shittiest rubber currently available.

Im not saying dont worry about these things, what I am saying there is always seconds to be shaved on the track (or corner) elsewhere unless your a pro (or atleast sponsored racer)

Trail braking specifically itself isnt an advanced technique but to use it effectively to gain position/s or drop time is!

Not many people ask about throttle control and trail braking in the same paragraph. Wouldnt that be jumping the gun?

Your clearly new to riding, throttle control is the key. A lot of people dont realise it, and if they do, its not practised. Some people spend a couple of years practicing and they can still improve.

This post sort of reminds me of a mate of a staff member (who is also first and formost a friend; so a mate of a mate) that I was asked to show lines to and follow at the track. He had done level 1 sbk school, but didnt use any of it on the track but he was consistent in his times. Afterwards he asked for feedback and I basically told him to practice level 1 and went over it quickly. Then arrogantly pestered about how to drop 11 seconds on his next session- like im holding out on him. This went on for about 10mins, more info then what he could process but were the simpliest things. Like throttle control and vision. He got frustrated and I referred him to the head coach, not before I said to his buddy "drop 5 seconds off his next session times, otherwise he's going to crash trying". The coach came up to me and said "sometimes you cant help people who wont listen"

After the next session he came to tell me he had dropped 5 seconds and was happy as a pig in shit

Speaking of which, the guy just called, asked about tyres- but it didnt sink in.

hard on brakes, trail brake down to the knee on the ground, get off the brakes and on the gas to finish the lean (maintenance throttle) and for most corners on a 600 basically full lean at the apex or a crack after.

bam u win the race... any questions?

hard on brakes, trail brake down to the knee on the ground, get off the brakes and on the gas to finish the lean (maintenance throttle) and for most corners on a 600 basically full lean at the apex or a crack after.

bam u win the race... any questions?

if you are a racer you win the race if you are a road rider you win a free ride to the hospital.

ride whatever way is most comfortable to you.
sounds damn odd, but on my 1000 i'll trail break the rear break into the turn with the throttle on a little bit. i've dragged pegs, pipes, and elbows. if the front starts pushing i'll wiggle the right foot just a bit. been racing for several years now and not wrecked because of it yet.
i'd recomend "twist of the wrist" 1 and 2 also. but over all, just get out there by yourself with no one else to keep up with and just play around for a little bit. try different shit and start slow. if you just don't feel comfortable doing it, then don't. if you do, then work with it a bit till you're good at it.
everyone has their own style. find what feels good and make it your own.
just make sure you're always damn smooth with whatever you do. nothing abrupt.

Its all about being smooth, dont slam the throttle, roll on the throttle. Speed gives you traction. If your entry is really slow and try to make up throttling out. You will lose your rear tire and high side.

Even if your chain is loose or tight you will still get the same amount of jerk. Its always best to keep slack in the chain, so your swingarm can do its job of swinging. Rolling on the throttle you wont get that jerk.

hard on brakes, trail brake down to the knee on the ground, get off the brakes and on the gas to finish the lean (maintenance throttle) and for most corners on a 600 basically full lean at the apex or a crack after.

bam u win the race... any questions?

how are you on the brake with your knee on the ground in a right turn? Unless your talking about trail braking with the front..?

Just follow this rule..... the more lean you have the less throttle you use. It also depends on what tires you're using. Stickier tires will allow you to deviate from that rule to a certain extent. But it all comes with feel.

In regards to corner entry I heard a lot of new guys saying they have trouble judging entry speed. Its hard to teach someone to increase their entry speed because when it comes down to it its all about how much confidence and balls you have. Even up till now my corner entry speeds always feel too fast but I trust myself and my bike to know its NOT and just tip it in. On some corners my knee is dragging way before I'm even anywhere near the apex.

i dont have that much experience, but i know that no matter how gently i come on the throttle i get an aprupt kick that would upset the chassis if i was leaned over. I usually brake straight in and as soon as im off the brakes, i crack the throttle open, slowly increasing to WOT by the end of the turn

My biggest problem was also the kick from rolling the throttle on in mid corner ('01 1K). After doing some research I heard that a TRE will smooth out throttle in the lower gears, so I built one. Unbelievable difference! It took me a while to adjust on the track because I was so used to veeeeeery gingerly rolling the throttle on in the corner to avoid "the buck", but with the TRE it would pretty much just coast with the amounts I was giving it. I had to re-learn throttle application mid corner.

Another side benefit is that engine braking into the corner has smoothed out considerably with the TRE. No more revving the piss out of it to avoid rear wheel chatter.

I'm no racer, but being smooth is my #1 goal, and with that, I've gotten a lot faster. Forget the "increased horsepower" from a TRE, just losing the throttle stumble and wheel chatter was worth it 110%.

looking into that right now :thumbup