The main area i need work is my body position. hit jennings this weekend and ran a personal best and really improved however i feel i need to fix my body position. i was fortunate enough to get a free session at the ed bargy school. ran one on one with the instructor, among other things (wek areas) he told me to stop being a puss and relax and stick my knee out in so many words :lol

anyway heres a couple piks from the weekend. any advise is appreciated

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/Jenningsmay10th2008012.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/Jenningsmay10th2008001.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/Jenningsmay10th2008002.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/Jenningsmay10th2008007.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/Jenningsmay10th2008013.jpg

Your getting the top half of the body pretty good but you can hang off some more. Go ahead and stick that knee out you're doing great. Bend your elbows more and get that head down. Keep it up.

http://a426.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/19/l_16a0a43aab576db0939fab92975aed01.jpg

ìt seams that your corner speed it is low. you have to learn to add speed in the corner the moment you have leaned the bike over you have to start to add speed gradually.

yep, you arent getting your lower body off at all. your upper body positioning looks good, it's just not in line with your lower body. Get half your ass off the seat and rotate your inside knee outward using the ball of your foot, not your ankle.
you entire body should be in a line from the head to your ass.

ět seams that your corner speed it is low. you have to learn to add speed in the corner the moment you have leaned the bike over you have to start to add speed gradually.

I thought you brake then tip in, then once you get to the appex accelerate? should i be on the throttle sooner but not as hard or less braking before hand to get faster corner speed?

yep, you arent getting your lower body off at all. your upper body positioning looks good, it's just not in line with your lower body. Get half your ass off the seat and rotate your inside knee outward using the ball of your foot, not your ankle.
you entire body should be in a line from the head to your ass.

what do you mean by using the bal of your foot. the instructor from the bargy school said somthing similiar but i just ried this (in the garage) and i cant rotate my foot out from that position (i think). my toe stays pointed forward. am i suppose to point my toe out/away from the bike?

I thought you brake then tip in, then once you get to the appex accelerate? should i be on the throttle sooner but not as hard or less braking before hand to get faster corner speed?
this is what you shoud do. this advise its for a learner and not an expert rider but you have to do this first and then move on.
1 start your braking early and dont do it hard.
2 stop braking a good 60 feet before the turn.( it will help the susbension to settle)
3 lean the bike ( when leaning a bike revs drop down)
4 add throttle as soon as you leaned (enough so that the chain is in tension and gives very little acceleration)
5 Now on you have to start calculating how well you entry was. if it was very slow you can add speed early (before apex) if it was spot on then from apex and on.

what do you mean by using the bal of your foot. the instructor from the bargy school said somthing similiar but i just ried this (in the garage) and i cant rotate my foot out from that position (i think). my toe stays pointed forward. am i suppose to point my toe out/away from the bike?

thats right, put the ball of your foot on the peg and and have the heel up on the heel guard. you look like you are standing on your inside peg, that will limit your movement on the bike and make slide control very difficult. having the foot turned out will allow your leg to pivot out stress free.

squat down and try in your lounge room face your foot forward and see how difficult it is to turn your leg out.

weighting your inside peg should start the turn but by your apex (not necasarily the corner apex) your should have almost no weight on your inside peg.

you can see in this photo how my foot is standing up, i should have it a little further back on the peg to get better clearance, but its a good guage on how close i am to the pegs.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2142/2341755020_9c5e35e7fd_b.jpg

if i was to suggest anything it would be to move away from the tank, move right back as far as you can go with your ass in the brake zones, this may allow to slide off the bike more easily and get a better weighting and more balanced and aggressive approach to your cornering.

^ what he said. Although sometimes i like weighting the inside peg to get the rear sliding a little, if i am just playin around that is.

Just remember this: Weight the inside peg, slide the rear. Weight the outside peg, good traction but hte bike stands up.

Ant, that is a good pic, but just a reminder to others that if you rotate your foot that much, your toes will touch down much easier and more often. I try to keep my foot entirely on my pegs, so if anything touches down, it will be the pegs first. Oh and BTW, it is very difficult to touch down aftermarket rearsets on the 06 07 600/750.

thats right, put the ball of your foot on the peg and and have the heel up on the heel guard. you look like you are standing on your inside peg, that will limit your movement on the bike and make slide control very difficult. having the foot turned out will allow your leg to pivot out stress free.

squat down and try in your lounge room face your foot forward and see how difficult it is to turn your leg out.

weighting your inside peg should start the turn but by your apex (not necasarily the corner apex) your should have almost no weight on your inside peg.

you can see in this photo how my foot is standing up, i should have it a little further back on the peg to get better clearance, but its a good guage on how close i am to the pegs.



That's some real good advice right there ... for all of us. The having your foot face out is key to getting your knee out, there's something to be said for the hip movement as well. Keep it up. :punk

As others said your upper body is great, now you just need to get a few more inches of your ass off and rotate your hip and shoulder so that your knee sticks out a bit more.

What I do notice in your pics is that on right turns your body looks twisted.... but on left turns your shoulders are properly pointing to the turns. I personally have the same problem and it takes time to really iron it out.

Alright guys been a while since iv been back to the board but here are some recent piks. any improvement? what do i still need to work on. any tips or advice is appreciated. i finally got me knee down in one turn and it scared the piss out of me. thought is was my peg till i realized what had actually touched. just felt something on the ground and said thats not good lol. other than that i think im improving just get too damn tired shifting my body. so i invested in a bike to ride to strengthen my legs and condition them for the track. But here are some piks

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_27992.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_28122.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_28342.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_28542.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_29052.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_30982.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_30992.jpg
(most the piks of the back session at Jennings look like this (above) hence i think im just not conditioned enough at this point. my legs were sore for a freakin week after the track day)
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_31372.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_27982.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y277/kaiw/SBP_33312.jpg

Looks good to me now its not so much about getting your knee on the ground but just keeping your body inline and not twisted. You look great, keep it up man.

Here's a good body position video to check out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxODoscChNo

here is your body position haha ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/gimpsta/nice.jpg

it is better than the first set of pic.
what ever you do to your riding style or bike its not going to give you any speed anless you learne to open the throtle.
You hane a throtle problem. i said it before and i will say it again open the throtle in the turn.
i have a friend that he had a perfect body position he had a better bike than me (1000ccK7, carbon wheels, system etc) and he was 27 seconds slower than me. the only advice i gave to him was to open the throtle and to use the C mode on the bike.
After 2 days in the track he made 24 seconds impruvmend. We were lucky that we left coz if we had another day he was going to lap faster than me.
Open the throtle. DONT OVER DO IT THOU:

of coarse you open the throttle, it helps the bike turn, helps the bike settle, helps the bike get stable.

u have two options - on the brakes or on the gas. that's it, pick one or the other. brake down into the corner and as soon as you are off the brakes you are cracking the gas open and carrying the speed then rolling it open right to the point of breaking the tire loose. On my 1k that is a pretty simple thing to do - its either that or leaving a 20yrd blackie and coming up into a wheelie while still finishing my lean. That is where hte rear brake helps out.

1st ?

In piks 1-4 do i need to be off the bike more? or do i have more lean angle to use hence go in faster?

2nd

do i need my head more to the outside of the bike. looks like im center to much

it is better than the first set of pic.
what ever you do to your riding style or bike its not going to give you any speed anless you learne to open the throtle.
You hane a throtle problem. i said it before and i will say it again open the throtle in the turn.
i have a friend that he had a perfect body position he had a better bike than me (1000ccK7, carbon wheels, system etc) and he was 27 seconds slower than me. the only advice i gave to him was to open the throtle and to use the C mode on the bike.
After 2 days in the track he made 24 seconds impruvmend. We were lucky that we left coz if we had another day he was going to lap faster than me.
Open the throtle. DONT OVER DO IT THOU:

well im learning that part. im just scared of to much throttle so am very slow on the throttle exiting. but as far as your saying, so if im breaking hard for say first turn i should finish breaking then get on gas then tip bike in?

i also have vid of the session so ill try to put that up by the weekend

I wouldnt sit off the bike any more then you already are until your a bit more familiar and comfortable locking on. Its counter intuitive unless the only purpose is to drag your knee.

like ant said, stop humping the tank.

Loosen up on the bars

It will open up another can of worms for you but see if you notice first.

I wouldnt sit off the bike any more then you already are until your a bit more familiar and comfortable locking on. Its counter intuitive unless the only purpose is to drag your knee.

like ant said, stop humping the tank.

Loosen up on the bars

It will open up another can of worms for you but see if you notice first.

No none of this is for me to drag a knee. anything that helps me get around the track faster is my goal.i ask about the knee and body position just for clearance reasons. it would help to know if im at max lean or no where near it.

When you say humpimg the tank. should i be to the side of the tank more. get my chest higher up away from it?

and any tips on loosening my grip. easy for me to be loose on the street but once i hit the track and get leaned over it feels like thats whats holding me on and keeping me stable.

Upper body is fine. Maybe move off the seat a bit more, I found when i was havin trouble that if I really gripped the outside leg onto the tank it made it easier to hang off and get closer to the deck.

No none of this is for me to drag a knee. anything that helps me get around the track faster is my goal.i ask about the knee and body position just for clearance reasons. it would help to know if im at max lean or no where near it.
In some ways, first touch down will make you a bit faster as it gives confidence. As long as you arnt over confident and try to defy the laws of physic's it will make you a little faster. But then again, some people get stuck at that level. They are stuck at that lean angle and cant go further or their times plateau.

When you say humpimg the tank. should i be to the side of the tank more. get my chest higher up away from it?
Do you hump with your chest or hips?!
Your upper and lower is good (wouldnt change a single thing if your comfy), just your seat position can be worked on. Where you sit on the bike will dictate what you can manipulate. Sometimes you want to load the front end, sometimes you dont. Depends on the corner, gradient and how you want to apply the throttle for a corner or a series. You dont need to worry about that right now but sitting back is a stepping stone.

Tell us what your chest does when you sit back an inch, then 2''. Also think about what your upper body does (or tries to do) when you do this

and any tips on loosening my grip. easy for me to be loose on the street but once i hit the track and get leaned over it feels like thats whats holding me on and keeping me stable.
Knock off a bit of speed for a session and specifically work on it. Gradually bring up your speed in increments until you start to death grip, hold that pace and work on it again and build back up, repeat. You will need to work on your lock (do a google searcH). Currently your using your arms to hold you up. You may need to work on this a lot or constantly, you might not.

this is what you shoud do. this advise its for a learner and not an expert rider but you have to do this first and then move on.
1 start your braking early and dont do it hard.
2 stop braking a good 60 feet before the turn.( it will help the susbension to settle)
3 lean the bike ( when leaning a bike revs drop down)
4 add throttle as soon as you leaned (enough so that the chain is in tension and gives very little acceleration)
5 Now on you have to start calculating how well you entry was. if it was very slow you can add speed early (before apex) if it was spot on then from apex and on.
here is what i have said earlyer in this thred.
people dont try to fix his body position if he cant use the throtle proberly you will not help him(his body position is not that bad).
From his pics it is opvius that he has a throtle problem and even he admited it when i said it before.

all good - minus the whole 60ft prior to the corner.

thats kind of way to open for interpretation..

get your braking done before the corner is the best analogy to give.

BP could use a little work but def better anthony!!!! The man has some decent speed and decent talent but like Bargy said before you just have to grow some balls from when ive seen you ride!!

Killer thread you all!

Great pics. . . when I grow up I wanna be just like ya'll! ;-)

ive been working on my body positioning for a while now and i have come to realize the similarities that each pro rider has all over the world no matter what bike they are racing.. Is that when they are mid corner on a sweeper they touch or almost touch there knees with there elbows. So im trying my best to do that and it actually feels more comfortable that way then the way i was doing it before..lol

the way i found this out is that instead of placing my heel facing towards the bike i face my heel outwards away from the bike while pushing my knee up towards my elbow with the balls of my feet on the peg..

few examples
90916

90917

90919

me before
90920

me now
90921


as you can see my knee no longer sticks down and drags for no reason and i have better mobility on my knee to move it in or out..

Here is more.. big improvement huh? :lol

90925

90926

90927

90928

hey just relax man
just go out and have fun. you look really tensed up in your pics. you're doing the right thing by studying pictures of yourself though.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6619/poop14ku8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/poop14ku8.jpg/1/w547.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img205/poop14ku8.jpg/1/)

hey just relax man
just go out and have fun. you look really tensed up in your pics. you're doing the right thing by studying pictures of yourself though.
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6619/poop14ku8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/poop14ku8.jpg/1/w547.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img205/poop14ku8.jpg/1/)



thats funny because I feel the opposite of that...never felt better on the bike riding like that.

i have actually been in the same situation as you, it took me a long time to figure out what was wrong. i think you are only missing one bit of information on your body position.

do this:
put your bike up on a a rear and front stand and try hanging off like you normally do, stick your knee out, then let go of the handle bars. if you are using a lot of energy in your lower body to keep you from falling off of the bike then your form is incorrect and you need to reposition your lower body.

solution:
try to turn your hips slightly in the direction of the turn. this will let you stick your knee out more and require little or no amount of energy to keep you from falling off.

reasoning:
look at your pics, your toes are pointing straight ahead and you are trying to stick your knee out to the side. this will feel awkward because your ankle can only twist so far, therefore limiting how much you can comfortably stick your knee out. by turning your hips slightly , you reposition you footing on the pegs slightly which will allow you to stick out your knee more with out stressing the ankle.

try it. it make a world of difference.

I think the part where you test your self to see if you can still hang with out your hands on the bars is really not helpful at all. First of all because your never really gonna let go of the handle bars at the track or when your racing although it is true that your not supposed to put much pressure on the handle bars and second of all, if your knee sticks out too much then it can cause for you to be dragging unnecessarily in the turn you know you can go faster. In other words dragging can feel that your too leaned over and you cant go more but in reality you can. Third, it doest really teach you when your knee is out and the turn gets tighter that you have to pull in your knee so you can have more lean clearance to go faster.

Im saying all this because i felt the same way and my pictures showed that i wasn't even close to the limit of the tires or me. just my 2 cents..