i crashed again this weekend on my track day. same turn, same spot, same way(turn 4 at putnam). but my problem is not with just one turn. observations from 2 racers told me i have too much lean angle http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wtf.gif I am going over onto the sidewalls on my tires and lowsiding. i now know this is the reason i have crashed both times. this track day and 70% of the last one back in may i have not dragged knee at all. I don't know why, i just feel that i am leaned over good enough and my knee doesn't touch. its not that i can't touch down, but that i just choose not to. I think part of my problem is i need more rear ride height. my observers said i should get off the bike more and and decrease my lean. its weird cuz i used to drag knee all the time and ran the same or faster lap times. should i change my riding style or just stick that knee out further so i can better guage my lean. wish i could do it over again and try some other things out.

here are some pics from back in may, unfortuneately no one was snapping pictures yesterday. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/118__040.jpg
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/118__055.jpg
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/52403gib2.jpg
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/Teal__020.jpg
http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/118__0350.jpg

are you running race tires? if not that would be my first guess. but either way you def. should get your body off the bike more. in the picture without the upper fairing on the bike your body position looks pretty good. in the other pictures it looks like your a little twisted. we have had numerous discussions about body position in here lately so you can run a search and see what everyone says about it... but you shouldnt be running out of tire. just get that body off the bike and you should be fine. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

get your body off more and you'll be able to keep the bike stood up on a more meaty area of tire,,, can use power and brake more effectively with more contact, etc

i am running 208GP. BMF and any you other racers, have you heard of complaints from other racers about the Hawk rear ride height being too low? i'm running an ohlins out back. ever once in a while i scrape the pegs and the bodywork in the back.

Basically with all the track experience I have at that track, if you are lowsiding in turn four (first left hander), you probably are doing a couple of things. One, you are pushing the front and in that turn with the ripples it has just outside the inside line, that's bad. Also, newbies (riders with few hours there) tend to trail brake in that corner. That's a pretty high speed turn and requires no trailing unless you are flying (as in Mark Junge - and he probably isn't trailing there). So, I would say don't be proud and review what you do in that turn. By looking at the photos, you ride the front. Sure, the debate will always be "what you should do" and "this is how you should ride", but in the end, we all ride in a style that different than the next. I can give three riders that are smoking fast that all three are different in the way they ride.

In any case, you very well could be pushing the front and that, my friend is a set-up issue. It very well could be that you aren't trailing there or applying too much brake. If that is the case, the forks aren't coming back fast enough over those ripples or they could be coming back too soon. You really need someone to check them out for you.

When is the next track day at Putnam? I know today there was one, but any more dates?

Cycle options has a trackday November 2nd. Early registration is $100

I agree with Lizard, you should be hard on the gas into and through four. Its the third fastest corner a Putnam. At least for me However Im a lowly 600 novice midpacker.

i'm on the gas all the way through the turn, no braking at all. oh and both times i crashed was at the point where one would lay it over and hit the deck. u know i never noticed ripples in the track there, i always thought i was imagining that it was bumpy. btw, i won't be doing any more track days this year. the next one is on the weekend my best friend is getting married and i'm in it. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif

I guess I can't figure out how you are lowsiding then. I mean, if you are on the gas there and NOT trailing, rolling off - even slightly, or braking at the entrance, then the rear should let go and you get pitched which is common there. A lot of guys who run out of lean there are usually in those ripples and the chasis gets so out of whack that they get thrown down pretty hard. That's a scary place to crash. I mean, if you are running out of lean angle there, you should be crashing in 9 and 10 or Dead Bear or turns 1 and 2 before 4. It is higher speed and you really don't drag as much there vs. those other corners.

Not to push your buttons, but I would wager you are rolling off or trailing brake. Or, one of those and hitting those ripples which with rolling off, trailing, etc. will load the front to the point of a lowside. Lowsiding there because of lean or a worn front would be MUCH more evident in one and two before you even got to turn 4.

i would have to go back and see if i am rolling off the throttle, i don't think i was but i can't say for 100%. i do know however i am NOT on the brakes at all. I sometimes feel the front sliding in 1,2, and 10, atleast i think thats what is happening. I am by no means a racer or claim to be real fast, but i am always willing to try new things. things for your input guys. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

klipsch_sv1k said:

i would have to go back and see if i am rolling off the throttle, i don't think i was but i can't say for 100%. i do know however i am NOT on the brakes at all. I sometimes feel the front sliding in 1,2, and 10, atleast i think thats what is happening. I am by no means a racer or claim to be real fast, but i am always willing to try new things. things for your input guys. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif



if you feel the front sliding in those other turns., it sounds like you need to crack the throttle open alittle more at that point...... most people feel because they are sliding the front they should roll off the gas., when if you roll on the gas the front stops sliding., unless you are way way too hot already..... try it and see...

klipsch_sv1k said:

i am running 208GP. BMF and any you other racers, have you heard of complaints from other racers about the Hawk rear ride height being too low? i'm running an ohlins out back. ever once in a while i scrape the pegs and the bodywork in the back.



I raced Hawks back in the day, even trophied a couple times.

Hawks weren't originally intended to be race bikes so there are a few things to overcome.

The rear ride height is one. The rear needs to be raised ~2". This maxes out a Fox shock. Another approach is to flip the chain adjusting eccentric, but this requires remounting the brake caliper under the swingarm. Even without raising the rear, the chain needs to be adjusted scary loose. Lean over the bike and pull the rear suspension down to check the chain. You need at least 1/2" at the tightest point, and this will make it really really loose with no one on the bike. If you make it through tech without them tellling you to tighten your chain, its too tight.

Raising the rear ride height gives you ground clearance and stops the rear from squating under power. Even with that much ride height, I'd occasionally get high centered on a Supertrap pipe. You might check the bottom of your collector. The M4 pipe performs better and doesn't have the clearance issue. I ran stock rear sets with the rear pegs installed in them and an adapter to rotate the lower hole back a couple inches. The peg wouldn't stop draging, and the folding peg wasn't as scary when it hit. The rear brake lever was all the way up, with the end cut in half and the stub beveled on the bottom.

If those are stock F3 forks on the front, they don't have nearly enough rebound damping. The Race Tech Gold Valve kit eventually included a shim stack for the rebound valve as well, but didn't for the first several years.

In some of your pictures the bike looks high in the front and low in the rear.

If thats a 5 spoke VFR rim on the rear, its 5.0" and a 160 tire will work the best for cornering.

Hunt down a guy named Hord on the Hawk list, he'll give you the rest of the story.