On Monday, I had an opportunity to try a bunch of motorcycles at Shannonville. The front end of my 2002 GSXR600 race bike (fox, protech) was harsh on the bumps. Jeff William's and Steve Crevier's GSXR600s and 1000s (Ohlins, Protech) was much better, but not as smooth as I'd like. JF Cyr's R6 (???, Ohlins - purported to have 117hp on race gas) had a sloppy rear end, no slipper clutch, but the second smoothest front end I've ever felt. (next to the 2000 RS250 I also tried). It was like being on rails. I was running up on the turtles on the _insides_ of the corners!

Are there any front end specialists out there that can make a 2003 GSXR600 front end feel like the R6 with only changing the internals (no Ohlins superbike forks...). Anything I can do myself?


Thanks,
Nicholas

you can put the racethech internals in your forks and get the right springs in there, the GSRX's you rode might have been set up for a heavier rider hence more stiff, but perhaps the r6 rider was around your weight hence smoother... it's all about the right set up http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

I'm gonna have to recommend Max McAllister at Traxxion Dynamics. He just worked on my front end this weekend at VIR and he's a top notch guy. He definitely knows what he's doing.

what you need to do is find a suspension guy who will offer trackside support. i had my suspension done by LE and it works real well, but if i had it to do over again i would have went with www.gmdcomputrack.com (http://www.gmdcomputrack.com) they are always at my home track and always willing to work with you.... even for free. in fact, this past weekend i had some questions so i brought my bike over to Pete at GMD and he even checked it out for me and i didnt even have him do my suspension(although i did have him work on a bike of mine a few years ago). so go with who ever will offer you the best trackside support. as long as you go with a reputable suspension expert you will be in good hands.

bmfgsxr said:
in fact, this past weekend i had some questions so i brought my bike over to Pete at GMD and he even checked it out for me and i didnt even have him do my suspension

really.... you sneaky little shit you!!!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/oogle.gif

gixxerfever said:


bmfgsxr said:
in fact, this past weekend i had some questions so i brought my bike over to Pete at GMD and he even checked it out for me and i didnt even have him do my suspension

really.... you sneaky little shit you!!!! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/oogle.gif



haha, it was between practice sessions on sunday so i didnt get to make any adjustments(basically he said i need more rear preload, and a softer spring.

All the riders were the same weight within five pounds I believe, except of course Crevier.

It really felt like a Suzuki thing rather then a spring thing.

Nicholas

as far as i know (from what i have heard) the r6 has much better feedback up front than this generation gixxer. so you can improve on what you have, but it probably wont feel as good as an equally tuned r6.

Heh, don't know if you can. Each has it's own front end and that is obtained from the entire rest of the bike (ie: put ohlins front forks on the gixxer and new R6 and it still won't feel the same between the bikes). I've got Racetech springs in my racebike forks and 5wt oil. Nothing else done to the forks. At race pace I run, on average, 57's. I took my '03 R6 out there, completely stock everything and was running 1 minutes without really pushing hard, on street 208ZRs too. The R6 is extremely light with extremely fast turn in. But the front didn't feel much different from my racebike. But it did handle like it was on rails though.

One thing to keep in mind is that you were riding two different bikes. Secondly, they were set-up for two different racers. Take Scott Russell for example. His set-up is wacked out compared to say, EBoz. You getting what I am trying to say? Just because two racers are close to weight doesn't mean their suspension is set the same.

Each racer has a different way they ride their bikes. Crevier may ride the front a lot more than the other guy. Plus, they probably (no offense here) go a ton quicker than you do at race pace and so, their suspension is going to be set up differently.

That is why you can't go up to the fastest guy and ask what settings they have their bike's suspension at - even if you have litterally the same internals and the same amount of time on those internals and oil.

In the end, bike to bike, the R6 is pretty stellar this year. It is in combination with the new chasis, better motor and the better suspension it has vs. last year. Can your GSXR feel similar in the front as an R6? I think so. However, it takes tuning and knowing what you are doing each time you change settings. You need to learn the difference between a half turn and a full turn in setting dials. Those racers can make a 1/4 turn in the front and feel the difference. How can you tell?

Quick story. A guy I know that mecahnics a popular riding school has an instructor come in for suspension changes. The mechanic wants to teach the instuctor what to feel for and how to translate that into proper wording in order for him to really know what they want. So, he gets their input and for example, when they say it feels too spongy or soft, he actually won't change anything and tell them he did. After they get back, he asks if it helped and the instructor says "felt a little better". There lies the problem. Too many people don't know what to feel for. They don't know the difference between the rear spinning because of too much ride height or because of some other problem such as their body position, etc. Learn and you'll be rewarded....

Screw Max at Traxxion..He charges waaaaay too much money and it's not worth it..A friend of mine had forks done by him before the AMA VIR event and they fricken broke, and took him forever to get em fixed at the track.

Go to Mike Fitzgerald (Thermosman Suspsension) He used to be Max's GM and is unreal with suspension..Hes also using the new Ohlins internals which are awesome

Quick Toy said:

Screw Max at Traxxion..He charges waaaaay too much money and it's not worth it..A friend of mine had forks done by him before the AMA VIR event and they fricken broke, and took him forever to get em fixed at the track.

Go to Mike Fitzgerald (Thermosman Suspsension) He used to be Max's GM and is unreal with suspension..Hes also using the new Ohlins internals which are awesome



We all have different experiences. I had Max work on my forks at VIR also. He took time out during the pro races working with little ole me. A nobody. Then he said, "you're left fork tube is bent. Get another one and send them both to me, and I'll switch over everything FREE OF CHARGE". How free of charge can be too much in anyone's opinion is beyond me. He worked on those forks for probably 1.5 hours in the middle of an AMA weekend, completely disassembling and clenaing them, changing the springs, oil and seals, and giving me a good baseline setup as far as both preload (sag), compression and rebound.

Not saying your boy Mike isn't a good knowledgable guy at all. Just saying Max knows what he's doing and my experience with him has been good.

NoBull said:


Quick Toy said:

Screw Max at Traxxion..He charges waaaaay too much money and it's not worth it..A friend of mine had forks done by him before the AMA VIR event and they fricken broke, and took him forever to get em fixed at the track.

Go to Mike Fitzgerald (Thermosman Suspsension) He used to be Max's GM and is unreal with suspension..Hes also using the new Ohlins internals which are awesome



We all have different experiences. I had Max work on my forks at VIR also. He took time out during the pro races working with little ole me. A nobody. Then he said, "you're left fork tube is bent. Get another one and send them both to me, and I'll switch over everything FREE OF CHARGE". How free of charge can be too much in anyone's opinion is beyond me. He worked on those forks for probably 1.5 hours in the middle of an AMA weekend, completely disassembling and clenaing them, changing the springs, oil and seals, and giving me a good baseline setup as far as both preload (sag), compression and rebound.

Not saying your boy Mike isn't a good knowledgable guy at all. Just saying Max knows what he's doing and my experience with him has been good.





Mike used to run Traxxion..Max fired him, because he made more money for traxxion than Max did, and it pissed max off..hes just that kinda guy.. I never said his work wasn't good..I just prefer someone who is at every CCS race, along with FUSA and AMA and mike makes em all

In my mind, Max is a dick and poor businessman. Read the release below:



From a press release issued by Traxxion Dynamics:

Traxxion and Thermosman Split; Free Product Update Results

In February of 2003, our General Manager, Mike Fitzgerald left Traxxion Dynamics, Inc. and started an Axxion Center called Thermosman Suspensions, Inc., to provide trackside support to racers in the Southeastern United States. Our goal was a long and profitable alliance.

In very short order, the suspension philosophy of Thermosman Suspensions,Inc. became inconsistent with that which has brought Traxxion Dynamics hundreds of AMA, FUSA, WERA, and CCS National Championships over the last six years. Although no formal date of dissolution exists, it is safe to say that we have had no dealings in the last two months. I have long felt a public release of this sad news would benefit neither company. Our separation saddens me greatly, as I feel our alliance could have contributed greatly to racers in the Southeast.

Many Traxxion Dynamics customers have purchased our products from Thermosman Suspensions, since we were allied through Axxion Centers, Inc. It has come to our attention that some of our Axxion Valve Kits were modified and installed in a manner inconsistent with the configuration in which the products were delivered, and intended to perform. Axxion Centers are not franchises, but rather stand alone businesses, only authorized to install Traxxion Dynamics products. As a result, Traxxion Dynamics, Inc. and Axxion Centers, Inc. can assume no liability for the actions of Thermosman Suspensions, Inc.

However, to remain consistent with the service that has made our company famous, Traxxion Dynamics, Inc. is offering a FREE PRODUCT INSPECTION to any customer who believes they had Traxxion Dynamics Axxion Valves installed by Thermosman Suspensions, Inc. between February 6, 2003 and July 6, 2003.

The Free Product Inspection will include a complete disassembly and inspection of your fork cartridges, to insure the proper build and installation of any Traxxion Dynamics products. Labor, oil, and cleaner will all be included and paid for, as a courtesy to our long standing and loyal customers. We will even pay return ground freight at no cost. This courtesy offer is available until 10/31/03.

Our goal has always been to offer our customers uncompromised suspension performance. We want to make sure they receive the performance they deserve whether they have purchased our products in the past, in the present, or in the future.

Max McAllister
President
Traxxion Dynamics, Inc.
Axxion Centers, Inc.