Anyone here pull the magneto from the case cover and just run without a charge system?

Does it spin any faster?

Dissadvantages?

I was thinking of doing this and getting a battery tender for in between sessions.

Wonder if I could pull/lighten the flywheel as well?

i heard a guy talking about this when i went over to talk to pete this weekend. it seems like its more work than its worth... i dont think you need any more hp than you already have bro. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

I'm not looking for more HP, I'm looking to help it accel/rev faster as well as lighten the bike overall.

What did you hear? It seems to me it would just be a matter of pulling the cover and removing the wire coil. Figure you just need to make sure the battery stayed charged in between sessions and for $20 you can get a simple Battery Tender with the quick disconnects.

From what I understand, if you remove any rotating mass from these cranks, it will cause the rear to spin up even easier. I have heard of some teams even adding weight to improve traction.

Adam, I bought my F3 and it didn't have the charging system on it. In my opinion, it SUCKED ! You always have to worry about charging the battery. Before/After practices and races. It might be a problem on fridays when you're teaching the penguin classes because the battery will probably last a half hour, but then you need like an hour to get a good charge.
I bought a brand new battery and it was great for one weekend, but then the battery didn't hold a charge like it did when it was new.
So, after a while of draining the battery and charging it, it won't hold a good charge and you might not get full power to the ignition like you would if you had a charging system on it.
I think that removing the charging system should be one of the last things you ever do to get an extra edge. Since I put the charging system back on the bike, it was soooooooo nice to just get on the bike and ride it. The motor did rev quicker, but one wierd thing was that the rear tire locks up more when down shifting because the motor doesn't have the momentom of the flywheel anymore.
It's very easy to remove the parts and you can get a lighter flywheel, but in my opinion, if your riding skills still have room for improvement, then don't remove the charging system.
Hope that helps.... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/thumb.gif

StealthRacer said:

It might be a problem on fridays when you're teaching the penguin classes because the battery will probably last a half hour, but then you need like an hour to get a good charge.




odd, i see other instructors with the same setup. i wonder if the older F3 wasn't as efficient?


StealthRacer said:

The motor did rev quicker, but one wierd thing was that the rear tire locks up more when down shifting because the motor doesn't have the momentom of the flywheel anymore.




Thats the main reason I was considering it, I'm looking for a faster rev. I don't think I'll lock the rear much since I run taller gearing for allowing higher corner speed. My other option would be to run even TALLER gearing and do extra shifting.

PDG said:

Anyone here pull the magneto from the case cover and just run without a charge system?

Does it spin any faster?

Dissadvantages?

I was thinking of doing this and getting a battery tender for in between sessions.

Wonder if I could pull/lighten the flywheel as well?



I have done this before and it does make a huge difference in how fast the bike builds revs. Pull the stator cover and you can remove the coils on the inside of the cover and the flywheel off the end of the crank.

There is another factor you need to think about - the starter. Starting the bike takes a huge amount of charge out of the battery, so I would advise against it, you will have to bump start the bike. The good news is that now you can also take the starter off and lose a few more pounds. Also take the cover off the right side of the motor and remove the starter clutch off that end of the crank. When you're done you will have shaved about 20 lbs (remember, most of this stuff is copper wire that is very heavy) or more, and about 1/2 of that is rotating weight.

I ran my 600 this way for almost two seasons, the easiest thing is to hook up some wires to the battery terminals that have a quick disconnect on them (trailer light disconnects work great) and hook the other end to your charger so all you have to do is plug the bike in instead of removing the seat a dozen times a day.

BTW - get an actual battery charger that will put out at least 10 amps, a "minder" or trickle charger won't replenish your battery quick enough between sprint races.

Try it, you can always put it back the old way, right?

yea adam bake in the superbike days we ran a small battery, ran 2 wires to the back of the tail section with bannana plugs. Just plugged a regular battery charger in after each session. in 3 years never had a battery issue. I left my starter on i never wanted to have an engine die at the line and have to push start it, uh that never happend either come to think of it

Randy bought his bike and it was a total loss system. He uses a battery tender and his battery died just before the race after lunch. He normally swaps batteries at lunch, I guess he just forgot. So for what it's worth, if you do do it, I'd say do what the other guys said and run a normal battery charger. Or completely remove it all and bump start it, although that seems like it would be a pain in the ass, and you're short. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ok, I think i'm gonna do it and use a full charger with some clips so I don't have to pull the seat.

I'll also 'attempt' to bump start it as I roll off my workbench (which is usually a 50/50 deal) and if it doesn't fire, use the starter then.

Grab yourself a new battery and have it ready just in case though, you could swap it out in a couple minutes should you really need to.

PDB said:

Grab yourself a new battery and have it ready just in case though, you could swap it out in a couple minutes should you really need to.



You mean me his pit bitch could swap it out, since he would have all his gear on.

Do the classes you race allow removal of these?
Here in Oz, Supersport and Superstock don't allow them to be removed.
Biggest drawback is the possibility of stalling on the grid and not having enough power to start. We had a big crash early this season when a front bike stalled and another hit it. If you dump the starter as well it's a pain when you're doing dyno tuning which might be worth considering.
Best to run two batteries and have one on charge while one is in the bike.
Be safe,
Larry

AusGixxerPilot said:

Do the classes you race allow removal of these?
Here in Oz, Supersport and Superstock don't allow them to be removed.




Look at my sig--does it look like my bike is legal for either of those classes?

OK, got the quick disconnects setup on the battery and tested it out with the full-on battery charger.

I disconnected the stator just to sample.

Everything worked fine.

Now, just waiting on a gasket from S&C and I'll pull the stator off as well. Not sure if I want to remove the flywheel as well.

Do the classes you race allow removal of these?Here in Oz, Supersport and Superstock don't allow them to be removed.



Look at my sig--does it look like my bike is legal for either of those classes?

[/QUOTE]

Not to me but from the rules I've downloaded from US race organisations you guys seem to have some funny rules :-)
Are you saying then that the US runs Supersport, Superbike and Superstock by the same rules as the rest of us? They sure would make it easier to understand.
Don't you run a 750 Supersport class as well though?
What classes do you compete in then?
By your sig I can't think of any class you could run in.
Be safe,
Larry

I run SB and GP and next will run FX

Cool :-)
We run under FIM Superbike regs which don't allow bikes under 600cc. We also have Production Superbikes which have an 800cc minimum this season to rule out the 750's but the regs aren't much different from Supersport.
I can't say I've looked at GP regs but aren't the bikes required to be non-production based?
We have a big FX series but I don't know what the regs are. I think they also run the 800cc minimum though.
If you ever get time I'm sure more members would love a thread giving a run down of the various race classes ;-)
Be safe mate,
Larry

Well, in CCS club racing there are tons of classes but to break it down simpler--things get broken down into four groups:

LW--under 600cc
MW--max of 600cc bikes
HW--max of 750cc bikes
UN--no displacement limit

There are no minimum displacement rules

For each weight class there is usually 3 specs of classes:

SS--same as AMA ss rules
GP--anything goes
SB--production bikes, have fun with the mods

-----------

Now thats for club CCS racing.

For AMA pro level stuff, right now FX is 1000cc based machines heavily modded out. The rule is changing next year to be a 600cc based class with 1000 air cooled twins allowed (ie Buells)

Thanks heaps for this Adam :-)
Our club racing is graded differently.
We have A, B, C and D graded riders. Generally A and B graders ride within about 5% of the lap record (for their class of bike). C graders are from 5% to 10%. D graders are 10% to 30% and those in their first season though faster riders may be upgraded within a few meetings. The idea is mainly for rider safety but also for closer competition for all riders.
The major classes (SS, SB, FX, GP, 250 Production, Production-SB, GP, etc) are based on the machinery rather than the rider skill.
I race Superbike under FIM rules so I'm fairly free to do what I want to my bike.
Be safe mate,
Larry

PDG said:

Anyone here pull the magneto from the case cover and just run without a charge system?

Does it spin any faster?

Dissadvantages?

I was thinking of doing this and getting a battery tender for in between sessions.

Wonder if I could pull/lighten the flywheel as well?



I'm interested in how well it worked for you.
I removed my alternator and flywheel last week mainly to protect the left side of the engine from crash damage. Took me an hour to make a new engine cover from 8mm plate. Saved 2600 grams and gave almost two inches more ground clearance.
I ran it yesterday and it felt good but the battery (two weeks old) won't hold much of a charge. My guess is that the fuel pump and injectors are sucking a heap more power than a carbed bike would use. I'm just curious if you had the same problem?
Be safe,
Larry

I had no battery problems at all. I ran it in a 30 minute practice session with no issues, took it back to the pit and threw the charger back on it. My battery is prolly 3 years old

I got two fifteen minute sessions including about eight starts with the starter before that. For the third session I had to bump start it and it started to break down after about ten minutes. I wanted to find out how long it would last. I kept the starter in case of a stalled start so I could hit the button but now I'm thinking it's not likely to have enough power for that anyway so I may as well dump the starter as well. I could run a second battery just to the starter I guess but that would be weight that is unlikely to ever be needed.
After that I kept the charger on it between sessions and bumped the starts but it was still breaking down towards the end of each session. I couldn't work out if it was breaking down electically or because the fuel pump wasn't keeping up the pressure. I do six to eight races a day so I need it to have more charge than it's got at the moment especially since some of those races run consecutively. There are a couple of R1's that run without the alternator but they only do three races in the day so it's not a problem for them.
I've got a practise this Friday for the State Titles on Sunday so I'm going to run two batteries and keep them charged up. I'll have to make QD clips for the seat so I can swap the batteries very quickly :-)
Thanks for the input.
Be safe,
Larry

AusGixxerPilot said:
I do six to eight races a day so I need it to have more charge than it's got at the moment especially since some of those races run consecutively.



it sounds like you'll need a larger capacity battery. the drawback is that it will likely be bigger, and almost certainly be heavier than the one you have now.

I'm looking at a non-sealed Yuasa battery because it's supposed to hold a charge longer.
Would it be possible to run a second battery just to run the fuel pump and injectors? Reducing the load should allow the battery to retain its charge for longer.
I'm assuming the standard battery being designed to run all the electrics could be significantly reduced if it only had to run the ignition and instruments.
Thanks for the input.
Be safe,
Larry

Odd that you had troubles. I had really no issues at all running a total loss system and I even retained and USED the starter, although I do admit that I did bump start it a few times coming off the workbench (so easy to start like that).

One BIG difference I noticed was the lack of engine braking going into a corner. I remember StealthRider saying how his back would lock up easier--well I found that I virtually freewheeled into corners, feeling like I was on a two stroke. It was great as I could back a couple downshifts, dump the clutch, and just throw it in without the engine braking getting the bike all out of shape.

PDG said:

Odd that you had troubles. I had really no issues at all running a total loss system and I even retained and USED the starter, although I do admit that I did bump start it a few times coming off the workbench (so easy to start like that).

One BIG difference I noticed was the lack of engine braking going into a corner. I remember StealthRider saying how his back would lock up easier--well I found that I virtually freewheeled into corners, feeling like I was on a two stroke. It was great as I could back a couple downshifts, dump the clutch, and just throw it in without the engine braking getting the bike all out of shape.



I expected the FI to drain the battery quicker than a carbed bike but I very surprised at how quickly.
I noticed a slight decrease in engine braking (I have a calculated 13.0:1 compression ratio) but since I don't use the clutch I very rarely suffer compression lock-up. All in all I'm very pleased with the engine minus the alternator and I'll remove the starter motor and clutch tomorrow.
Thanks heaps for the input Adam and good luck on the track :-)
Be safe,
Larry