Has anyone installed a 16t front sprocket with the stock chain and rear sprocket? I am wondering how far back this puts the rear wheel and if you noticed slower turn-in as a result of the longer wheelbase?

-DitchBoy

Yes I have done it, and no I haven't noticed any difference in turn in. It's easy to do so give it a try and see what happens. If you don't like it for some reason you can always change back to stock. Man does it accelerate hard. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

Is there any clearance problems with a 16t pinion? On my 929 there was a question of the chain rubbing the swing arm.

Chris

There are no clearance problems.
Just put it on and adjust the rear tire.....DONE....
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

So, I put the 16t on, adjusted the wheel back to keep the proper chain slack (wheel went back about 4mm) and went for my favorite ride up to Windy Ridge on Mt. St. Helens to check it out. On the positive side I could notice even better accleration out of the corners. On the negative side, the bike is now slower to turn in and flick from side-to-side and feels heavier in those transitions... From just 4mm longer wheelbase! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif And this bike ('03 1k) is already a PIG to turn in compared to my '99 R1. To be fair though I am still running the stock 'Stone 190 compared to the 208GPs on the R1. So I KNOW the stock 190 is handicapping the bike. Anyway, with the 16t on the wheel, its just too far back for my handling tastes so the 17t is going back on and I will try +2 in the rear - That should put the wheel in a better position.

DitchBoy said:

So, I put the 16t on, adjusted the wheel back to keep the proper chain slack (wheel went back about 4mm) and went for my favorite ride up to Windy Ridge on Mt. St. Helens to check it out. On the positive side I could notice even better accleration out of the corners. On the negative side, the bike is now slower to turn in and flick from side-to-side and feels heavier in those transitions... From just 4mm longer wheelbase! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif And this bike ('03 1k) is already a PIG to turn in compared to my '99 R1. To be fair though I am still running the stock 'Stone 190 compared to the 208GPs on the R1. So I KNOW the stock 190 is handicapping the bike. Anyway, with the 16t on the wheel, its just too far back for my handling tastes so the 17t is going back on and I will try +2 in the rear - That should put the wheel in a better position.



man, you must be really connected into that bike to notice a 4mm longer wheelbase....thought about riding in the AMA?

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cheers.gif i went down one on the front and up one on the rear , The wheel position is slightly forward so no handling probs. accelaration is great, only draw backs are 1. the speedo is now innaccurate. 2. it always seems to be screaming for the next gear on fast straights 3. fuel consumption. but when pulling out of a bend around 7k wow she pulls so freakin hard man.

Eric the viking said:

man, you must be really connected into that bike to notice a 4mm longer wheelbase....thought about riding in the AMA?



Must be connected then because I noticed the difference. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif I test, tune and develop heavy truck chassis for a living (highly sophisticated calibrated ass http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) and feeling small changes in those big pigs makes 4mm in WB on the GSXR chassis really stand out to me. As for riding in the AMA... No fook'n way man. AMA Pro Racing is the most ass-backwards, run by complete idiots organization I have ever seen. Plus have you seen some of the Mickey Mouse tracks they make these truly brave professionals race on? Dangerous.

Eric the viking said:

man, you must be really connected into that bike to notice a 4mm longer wheelbase....thought about riding in the AMA?



oh good one Eric..... http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

99 R1 steers quicker? Take that man's crack pipe away.

Eric the viking said:
man, you must be really connected into that bike to notice a 4mm longer wheelbase....thought about riding in the AMA?



How much of a difference does a 180 tire make over a 190? I can feel that... should I be riding in the AMA too? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif

Heyabuza said:


Eric the viking said:
man, you must be really connected into that bike to notice a 4mm longer wheelbase....thought about riding in the AMA?



How much of a difference does a 180 tire make over a 190? I can feel that... should I be riding in the AMA too? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/banana.gif

.

Why not...lets all go racing in the AMA !

On a more serious note, the change in tyre size will be far more noticeable than the marginally longer wheelbase. As i have said on previous posts, i now use the rennsport/ supercosa 190 section tyre over the 180. The new tyre for 03 has the same turn in as the 180 section as it has a taller profile, 55 section like the 180 not 50 like the old 190's. i did not believe it until i tried it, now i dont use the 180's. but it does depend on the make....... it will make a difference on street rubber, where the majority of the time, the bike is upright, whereas for race/track rubber, the bike is leant on its side for a greater proportion of the time. So you will notice the differnce going from a 190/50 section to a 180/55 section as the 180 will have a taller profile which will quickn the steering. Just look at the dunlop race tyres, they are very tall profile, lots of side grip but can be unstable at high speeds

Sometimes the changes to a bike are in your head. If you believe its different, then you will try and convince yourself it must be true. If you can feel a 4 mm longer wheelbase really changes the feel of the bike then you are a much better rider than me, and i take my hat off to you. With only 3 posts on the board, you must be too busy out riding than posting info so you must be really dialled into that bike of yours. I bet you must also be able to feel when the tyre is worn out as that will also have an effect and i am sure you would also be able to feel when the front tyre is down just 1psi, as well as the different performance in the bike between sea level and 1000 feet up a hill, not only that, but the massive difference in turning ability between running a full tank of gas against only a 1/4 left in the tank. You'll need a support team to follow you around and keep adding more gas every 30 miles as you clearly wont want to run a full tank of gas anywhere as it upsets the handling so much. What about your chain stretching? after about 1000 miles the chain will have stretched which again will effect the handling assuming you have adjusted the rear wheel to account for it. You'll also need tyre warmers on for when you justpop out somewhere local, as you wont have enough time to warm the tryes up otherwise. Also run nitrogen instead of air in your tyres, being an inert gas, its far more stable and doesnt expand under heat from the trye carcus so the tyre pressures are more consistant. Have you got a datalogging system on the bike, as i feel that is the next thing for you. then you can really get dialled into it............

I'm only taking the p*ss so dont get angry. If i was you, stick the 16t sprocket on and go and ride the bike. if you are that worried about the marginal longer wheelbase, stick a shorter chain on the bike. In my view , the benefits of the smaller spocket over stock far outweigh any slight change in wheelbase.

Eric the viking said:


DitchBoy said:

So, I put the 16t on, adjusted the wheel back to keep the proper chain slack (wheel went back about 4mm) and went for my favorite ride up to Windy Ridge on Mt. St. Helens to check it out. On the positive side I could notice even better accleration out of the corners. On the negative side, the bike is now slower to turn in and flick from side-to-side and feels heavier in those transitions... From just 4mm longer wheelbase! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif And this bike ('03 1k) is already a PIG to turn in compared to my '99 R1. To be fair though I am still running the stock 'Stone 190 compared to the 208GPs on the R1. So I KNOW the stock 190 is handicapping the bike. Anyway, with the 16t on the wheel, its just too far back for my handling tastes so the 17t is going back on and I will try +2 in the rear - That should put the wheel in a better position.

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

man, you must be really connected into that bike to notice a 4mm longer wheelbase....thought about riding in the AMA?

Nah, I am not pissed or upset, just a bit disappointed that everyone is so quick to call BS when someone new shares there experiences. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/cry.gif YO-YO, don't be hate'n, don't be hate'n. Hey 'Eric the Viking' just because I notice a handling difference from a small change in setup doesn't make me a better rider than you, but hey you never know. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif Did you take your hat off yet? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif And what does only having posted 3 times have anything to do with anything? Eric, you clearly went out of your way to cut me down and try to prove me wrong with no provocation. Whatever... Hey at least, you did finally provide some constructive info on the 190/55 which does sound interesting. Thing is I have ridden and raced on Dunlops for so long, plus I am good friends with the regional Dunlop race tire distributor and he really gives me awesome support. I am kinda golden handcuffed to the Ds and thus the 180/55. Hey, rumor has it that Pirelli DOT race buns can't handle as many heat cycles at the 208 GPs and thus don't last as long. Guess, only someone who has recently raced both could comment on that...

I have decided to put the 17t back on the front and go +1 or +2 in the rear, then I don't have to buy a new chain, keep the shorter gearing and I get my shorter WB for quicker turning, less lean angle required for a given turn, more traction at the rear, etc. Plus there is the more optimum chain pull line of force on the swingarm during acceleration. Oops I am getting too techincal and sensitive again? BULLSHIT! http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/spit.gif There, I saved you guys a post. Hey, just poke'n some fun back. Its all good brotha's. Man, its a bit rough being the new guy in these parts.

Eric the viking said:
...Also run nitrogen instead of air in your tyres, being an inert gas, its far more stable and doesnt expand under heat from the trye carcus so the tyre pressures are more consistant....



I hope you didn't pay a lot for that information. Nitrogen does in fact expand when heated. You'll get about 1psi for every additional 15 degrees F.

BusaGeek@work said:


Eric the viking said:
...Also run nitrogen instead of air in your tyres, being an inert gas, its far more stable and doesnt expand under heat from the trye carcus so the tyre pressures are more consistant....



I hope you didn't pay a lot for that information. Nitrogen does in fact expand when heated. You'll get about 1psi for every additional 15 degrees F.



paid nothing for the information, so i'm not out of pocket..... but in 2002 we did use nitrogen in the tyres for the TT races and they seemed to last a bit longer, looking at the wear on them. The guys at Pirelli reckon it helps keep them more stable ie at a more controllable pressure. I know they will heat up and cause some increased pressure due to the heat, but it is far less than air. Did not use nitrogen for 03 as we could not get a supply in time, plus we had our hands full elsewhere......

Do you reckon that if we run helium it will make the bike lighter? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Hey ditchboy, nice post....

if you really can tell the differnce in handling for a 4mm change in wheelbase, then good luck to you. Most people wont notice any difference. hence my comment that you must be really dialled into your bike. With regard to your other points.....

"Hey, rumor has it that Pirelli DOT race buns can't handle as many heat cycles at the 208 GPs and thus don't last as long. Guess, only someone who has recently raced both could comment on that... " most probably a rumour put around my Dunlop. I have heard the exact opposite rumour, that pirelli can handle more heat cycles than dunlop........

Different people prefer different tyres. doesnt mean that any one make is better than another, some are more suited to different conditions/races/styles than others

"I have decided to put the 17t back on the front and go +1 or +2 in the rear, then I don't have to buy a new chain, keep the shorter gearing and I get my shorter WB for quicker turning, less lean angle required for a given turn, more traction at the rear, etc. Plus there is the more optimum chain pull line of force on the swingarm during acceleration. Oops I am getting too techincal and sensitive again? BULLSHIT! There, I saved you guys a post. Hey, just poke'n some fun back. Its all good brotha's. Man, its a bit rough being the new guy in these parts."

obviously you will know that 1 tooth off the front is about the same as adding 3 to the rear. so just adding one or two to the back is not the same as dropping one on the front. but you will know that already. For an even shorter wheelbase, get some new adjustable yokes to alter the rake/trail. then you will really have some turn in, also drop the forks through the yokes and raise the rear ride height. all will improve turn in. you will end up with an unstable bike at high speed when in a straight line, but you will have awesome turn in. but then you will know that already.....you know about changing the angle of the chain run through the swingarm, that can add/reduce rear traction, so dont forget to adjust your rear suspension unit to allow for the differences. but you will know that already.

We dont have a problem with people getting technical on the site, just people who bullshit and know jack shit..........everyone has to learn along the way, which is why before starting new posts you will often find the answer to your question if you search under the previous posts. People get fed up answering the same questions over and over and over again.

question though.........if you already knew all of this why did you ask such a simple question about running a smaller front sprocket? http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/dunno.gif

BusaGeek@work said:


Eric the viking said:
...Also run nitrogen instead of air in your tyres, being an inert gas, its far more stable and doesnt expand under heat from the trye carcus so the tyre pressures are more consistant....



I hope you didn't pay a lot for that information. Nitrogen does in fact expand when heated. You'll get about 1psi for every additional 15 degrees F.



Yes, nitrogen does not escape the universal gas laws. There must be a reason for running it but I don't think pressure changes is one of them.

If this primarily two-sided conversation is boring people, I apologize. Responding to Eric's comments:

"most probably a rumour put around my Dunlop. I have heard the exact opposite rumour, that pirelli can handle more heat cycles than dunlop........"

I have been wanting to try the Pirelli's for about the last two years but always chicken out at the last minute. They sure seem like nice DOT race tires. The dilema is I can't find fault with the D's so I am really just wondering if the grass is greener type thing and you know how that usually turns out.

"Different people prefer different tyres. doesnt mean that any one make is better than another, some are more suited to different conditions/races/styles than others"

You state the obvious most wonderfully. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif


"obviously you will know that 1 tooth off the front is about the same as adding 3 to the rear."

To be precise, its like adding 2.625 teeth in the rear from stock. So, +2 in the rear is pretty darn close to -1 in the front. I wouldn't have enough slack in the chain for +3 in the rear, but I wouldn't want that much anyway, nor do I want to buy a new chain.

"so just adding one or two to the back is not the same as dropping one on the front. but you will know that already. For an even shorter wheelbase, get some new adjustable yokes to alter the rake/trail. then you will really have some turn in, also drop the forks through the yokes and raise the rear ride height. all will improve turn in. you will end up with an unstable bike at high speed when in a straight line, but you will have awesome turn in. but then you will know that already.....you know about changing the angle of the chain run through the swingarm, that can add/reduce rear traction, so dont forget to adjust your rear suspension unit to allow for the differences. but you will know that already."

Damn Eric... You are one sarcastic son-of-a-b*tch aren't you. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Yes, I knew all of that already, but indeed thanks for mentioning them in case I didn't or for others edification. My quest is to find the best compromise in setup between quick turn-in and stability. So far, I have added 6mm of ride height to the rear and dropped the front (raised the forks) by 2mm and things were getting much better (i.e. the handling was nearing my tastes). Then with the -1 tooth in the front and pushing the wheel back, the bike went backwards in handling just a bit. This is just a streetbike/ track day bike for me so I want to spend as little money on it as I can. Plus I enjoy really working on a stock bike and making all possible adjustments (and some very low $$$ mods, like a sprocket) and see just how good it can get. And then there is the fun of making guys with $3000 suspension look like they are going backwards on the track. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/flipa.gif Gee, my bike is stock. Although I sure wouldn't mind a $3000 suspension if I could afford it.

"We dont have a problem with people getting technical on the site, just people who bullshit and know jack shit.........."

Eric, sounds like you speak for many people. You must be quite an authority on this list. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Just play'n, I can be sarcastic too. I assure you I don't bullshit about technical matters (well, very rarely) and I have only met jack shit once and he was much nicer than people make him out to be. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

"question though.........if you already knew all of this why did you ask such a simple question about running a smaller front sprocket?"

I am totally new to this bike and even Suzuki (had everyhting else but) so I was just looking for other peoples experiences with the 16t front (and I did search the past info). Plus, I just wanted to make some conversation and meet some of the people on this forum, preferrably some techincal people with respect to chassis setup and handling. Bamn! I now know you and you seem very technical with lot's of experience with chassis setup. So again, thanks for your input (the constructive part). http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif