In the MSF course I was taught to use both front and rear brakes..... and after riding for a couple of months my riding buddies advised me to never use the rear brake.

So ever since then I have never used the rear brake.... at all.

But I think I've read somewhere that the rear brake CAN be of good use if used properly. And I believe I've seen a thumb operated rear brake lever on Haga's race bike located right beneath the clutch lever.

good luck on this one coz its very advansed staff. The rear brake is for knew learners and very advansed riders. A friend ordered one (thump brake) and couldnt fix it on the bike coz there was no room on the clipon (its a road bike and he didnot want to remove the switches).
I quess if you have to brake mid corner is better be done by the rear brake. This will have better use in the track than on the road.
Hope that some one who has it on his bike post in this thread and give us his experience.

You need to get a feel for the rear brake before you can use it effectively. Remember, the rear brake is 20% of your total stopping power so it you use it correctly you'll stop 20% faster than if you didn't use it at all.

To get a feel for it, gear up and go practice braking in a big, empty parking lot somewhere. From a stop, accelerate to 20 MPH, then stop as hard as you can using only your front brake. Practice increasing your front brake lever pressure gradually until you feel it start to lock up or you start to stoppie, then immediately let off. Your maximum braking power is right before it locks up, so get a feel for how much pressure on the front brake lever that is. Squeeze the lever slowly and progressively, don't hamfist it unless you want to do a stoppie. ;)

Once you have a feel for what your maximum braking power in the front is, you can now start adding some rear brake. Go slowly at first, adding just a bit of rear brake into the mix. As you practice your braking, add more and more rear brake as you gain more confidence in it. Once you feel good about it, accelerate as hard as you can to 20-30 MPH then stop as hard as you can. If you feel either wheel lock up, let go of its brake right away. Take a mental note of how much brake pressure on either lever it required to lock up either wheel, then use just a little less pressure next time. Once you practice this a bunch of times, you'll be able to use your maximum stopping power instinctively. Then practice it from 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 MPH to a dead stop. Just make sure that you are ALWAYS smooth on the either brake lever so you don't lock it up accidentally.

A touch of rear brake will settle down the chassis too. I find this helpful when setting up for a corner. A touch of rear brake will help stand the bike up midcorner if needed, handy if you spot a patch of oil/antifreeze/gravel midcorner while riding on the street. It's also useful on the track to keep the front end down when accelerating hard.

-bl

Not many people I know use it or feel the need to use it. Some of these guys are not far off national superbike lap records.

But it can be used to good effect.

Think of it as this, if your using maximum front brake, you will need very little rear, but as you start to slow down and the rear wheel touches back down you can start to squeeze the rear brake.

The only time I use it is really to set the suspension for a corner and only 1 particular corner on one track. I generally dont use it to tighten my line, and rarely in a straight line- only if im trying to keep the suspension set which is more like trail braking.

Basically, leave it alone if you can, if its making a significant difference when you braking your not using the front enough

the good guys drag it exiting as well to settle the rear a little.

Exiting and under hard throttle over rises. I forgot where I read it. Instead of letting off of the gas when the front wheel rises coming off of a small rise in the track, they use the rear brake to bring the front wheel back down and stay on the gas.

Rear brake is invaluable for slow speed weaving through traffic moves or U turns.

accelerate as hard as you can to 20-30 MPH then stop as hard as you can. If you feel either wheel lock up, let go of its brake right away.


The MSF course I took as well as the written motorcycle test booklet say if you lock up the rear wheel then ride it out, if you lock up the front wheel let go of the front brake immediately.

The MSF course I took as well as the written motorcycle test booklet say if you lock up the rear wheel then ride it out, if you lock up the front wheel let go of the front brake immediately.

Sure, if you're in a turn, that's definately true. It'll help you avoid highsiding.

But if you're going in a straight line and you feel the rear lock up, chances are it'll start stepping out on you. Release it immediately to get it back in line with the front wheel.

i was NEVER EVER and still am not able to lock up my rear (in a controlled environment, not on the street somewhere with traffic around...).

anyways to tighten the rear a lil?

I use the rear a lot, but never hard. It takes some time to learn how hard you can get on the rear without locking it up. As said above, the harder you are on the front, the less pressure it takes to lock the rear. In maximum braking, the rear helps because you have that much more rubber on the ground. I like using it because I can tension the chain at slow speeds by dragging the brake. Or eliminating that jerk when you go from engine braking back to power mid corner. I know there's guys that are much better riders than me that never touch it. It just works for my riding style I guess.

I always use both out of habit from the MSF course. I've locked the rear before and felt it slide but never dangerously. I do like to use it because it does settle the chassis before a turn and you don't get so much of that dive from being aggressive on the front.

i was NEVER EVER and still am not able to lock up my rear (in a controlled environment, not on the street somewhere with traffic around...).

anyways to tighten the rear a lil?

Put a steel braided brake line (Goodridge, Galfer etc) on the rear and/or grippier brake pads if you want more rear brake power. The pedal will feel lots firmer with the braided line. If you go this route, be careful while you're getting used to the increased braking power.

i was reading twist of the wrist 2 lately and something I thought was interesting and never really thought about was that the front tire only initially steers the bike in. Once the bike is leaned in and the suspension is "set" the rear wheel provides 100% of the stability. That being true...i can see why using the rear brake can be effective in certain phases of cornering. I don't know which ones....i'm still reading

i was reading twist of the wrist 2 lately and something I thought was interesting and never really thought about was that the front tire only initially steers the bike in. Once the bike is leaned in and the suspension is "set" the rear wheel provides 100% of the stability. That being true...i can see why using the rear brake can be effective in certain phases of cornering. I don't know which ones....i'm still reading

lol thanks Don

I'm pretty much on the same page as you (not literally).... I know the rear brake can be used during cornering but don't know HOW or WHY.

i was reading twist of the wrist 2 lately and something I thought was interesting and never really thought about was that the front tire only initially steers the bike in. Once the bike is leaned in and the suspension is "set" the rear wheel provides 100% of the stability. That being true...i can see why using the rear brake can be effective in certain phases of cornering. I don't know which ones....i'm still reading

Im reading the same book for about the 5th time. Code and Chandler are great!

I need to start doing some reading so I can aquire some riding skills.... I suck at riding right now.

Code says one reason for the rear brake in cornering is to keep as much traction on the front tire as possible since braking decreaces the available traction

I use the rear a lot, but never hard. It takes some time to learn how hard you can get on the rear without locking it up. As said above, the harder you are on the front, the less pressure it takes to lock the rear. In maximum braking, the rear helps because you have that much more rubber on the ground. I like using it because I can tension the chain at slow speeds by dragging the brake. Or eliminating that jerk when you go from engine braking back to power mid corner. I know there's guys that are much better riders than me that never touch it. It just works for my riding style I guess.

So let me get this straight... for those of you who actually use the rear during *maximum* straight line braking:

The only way that I see it making any sense is if you apply pressure to the rear at the start, and then as soon as the weight shifts to the front you let go almost completely... which literally would mean you have your rear brake applied for under a second and then the front takes over.

Am I wrong ? Who actually uses the rear during heavy front brake use ?!

As long as the rear tire is on the ground, it can apply braking force. Think of it this way. If you use the front only, your maximum braking ability is limited to when the rear comes up and over. By using the front only, you've limited to 80% total braking power. If you use a lot of front, 70%, and the rear 15%, your braking power is now 85% total. It's just a very very fine line. You don't even have to use the rear brake to see the difference. Try a hard stop with engine braking and a hard stop with the clutch pulled. It makes a huge difference. With engine braking being what it is, most people never feel the need to use a rear brake.

So let me get this straight... for those of you who actually use the rear during *maximum* straight line braking:

The only way that I see it making any sense is if you apply pressure to the rear at the start, and then as soon as the weight shifts to the front you let go almost completely... which literally would mean you have your rear brake applied for under a second and then the front takes over.

Am I wrong ? Who actually uses the rear during heavy front brake use ?!

If you practice, the rear pressure needed will become automatic, just be gentle front & rear as you apply. The rear is more sensitive to overbraking but is still usefull, especially in a panic stop. I learned how to ride in the dirt & you are constantly on both brakes with all kinds of different traction & it really helps you to do it on auto after a while. Also hurts a lot less if you fuck up when you're learning.:cheers

according to code the rear brake is a delicate tool to use because you have to be aware of the amount of traction available which takes skill and knowledge or your abilities as well as the bikes. Code also mentions that there is no need to use the rear brake in straight line braking in "track" situation or emergency stops. THis is because your aren't going for 80/20 or 70/30. The front brake can provide 100% of the breaking as evident by the motogp guys braking so hard that they can lift the rear upand around before the turn. The rear brake is useless in hard braking. Don't ask me. Ask keith code...and this is with bikes from the 80's so I know our new...hi tech bikes with bigger brakes and better tires are able to apply and use 100% of braking htein the front

according to code the rear brake is a delicate tool to use because you have to be aware of the amount of traction available which takes skill and knowledge or your abilities as well as the bikes. Code also mentions that there is no need to use the rear brake in straight line braking in "track" situation or emergency stops. THis is because your aren't going for 80/20 or 70/30. The front brake can provide 100% of the breaking as evident by the motogp guys braking so hard that they can lift the rear upand around before the turn. The rear brake is useless in hard braking. Don't ask me. Ask keith code...and this is with bikes from the 80's so I know our new...hi tech bikes with bigger brakes and better tires are able to apply and use 100% of braking htein the front



good point Don..

I think Code is full of shit on that one. I'll make it real simple. You lock the front, you're fucked either way it goes, and a skidding tire has less traction. You pull enough front brake to flip, and you're still fucked. So you're front brake has a hard limit. Just before you hit that limit, you've got rubber on the ground in the rear which can apply friction. So, your front brake can NEVER apply 100% braking force.

I think Code is full of shit on that one. I'll make it real simple. You lock the front, you're fucked either way it goes, and a skidding tire has less traction. You pull enough front brake to flip, and you're still fucked. So you're front brake has a hard limit. Just before you hit that limit, you've got rubber on the ground in the rear which can apply friction. So, your front brake can NEVER apply 100% braking force.

Skidding front tire does = less traction, but that only happens when you lock the front....solution don't lock the front

Front brake does have a limit, either its going to lock and slide or the rear is gonna lift it. The Code says and that bikes have been lifting the rear tire for about 20 years. Actual braking distances haven't changed in about 20 years also.

Basically if the front can provide 100% breaking evident by the bikes ability to use all the "available" braking and traction that causes the rear to lift off the ground. Because the rear can lift off the ground that means that the front can provide 100% of the breaking.

Now it is true that using both breaks can bring you to a "stop" quicker....but as code asks "when are you gonna stop on the track" Also the rear brake can be used in turns to provide some traction to the front but its rare when you need to do this. This is because quick steering sets your lean angle and turn in then its all about throttle controll to maintain that lean angle and corner speed in the corner.

Code is the shit

well, i grew up on dirtbikes so naturally i grew up sliding the back tire around. when i got my gixxer which is my 1st street bike, i had to make myself used to not using the rear so much but i do still use it. especially in straight line emergency stops i use both the front and the rear and i can stop very quickly that way.. quicker than when using just the front alone. i practiced emergency stopping for about an hour one day out in the country, just to see how fast i could stop if i ever needed to. i would advised all of you to go out and do this as you will learn what distance it takes you to go from a certain speed to a stop. i kept doing 60 to dead stop. i found that when i made my best stops the rear tire would be on the verge of sliding. on some stops the rear would slide very slightly but i could still tell the bike was stopping in a shorter distance than when using the front alone. i did this several times, using only front and using both front and rear.. and using both the front and rear is definitely better. it just takes practice to have a feel for how much pressure to apply to each brake. i know my experience in the dirt contributed to this alot, because when the back tire does slide a bit i'm comfortable with it because i'm used to the back tire sliding when i rode in the dirt.

Traction of the front tyre is all about getting weight over the front wheel,the more weight over the front wheel the more grip your gonna have.
Thats why we are told to squeeze the brake lever,once that initial dive of the shock flattens the contact patch on the road(with a warmed up tyre)the brakes can be squeezed very hard and the rear brake will have little or no use.Trail braking into corners and filtering through traffic are where the rear comes into it's own.

i was NEVER EVER and still am not able to lock up my rear (in a controlled environment, not on the street somewhere with traffic around...).

anyways to tighten the rear a lil?


try pushing harder i lock up my rear almost all the time sliding corners and stuff its like controling your pedal bike when you where a kid