** I found the solution to my problem!!!! ** Pictures on page 4

Ok from what my riding buddies tell me is that my knee doesn't stick out when I'm cornering. I'm not desperate to drag knee or anything but it's making me really curious what I'm not doing right. Also according to Nano's "drag a knee" thread it is a lean indicator which I think is pretty important if I'm running street tires.

My upper body is fine, and I hang one cheek off the bike, but in my last ride I noticed my elbow would be resting on my thigh while I'm cornering, and my knee puck is nowhere near the ground. There are times when I could swear I'm maxing out the edge of my rear tire but the knee just isn't touching the ground.

I'm a pretty flexible guy so I don't think that has anything to do with it. What I'm wondering is if the foot positioning affects how far I can make my knee stick out. Here's a few shots and you can see that even with one cheek out my knees aren't sticking out. I'm doing my first track day in less than two weeks and I would like to have a "lean indicator" since I'll be running street tires. Last thing I would want to do is lowside.

In these pics I was riding a higherspeed road so I wasn't really expecting the knee would touch down. But it's the only pictures I have of me riding... you can see that my knee doesn't stick out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/pic6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/Angelescrest.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/l_95889e4a84a3fd91ee00260d127b7efc.jpg

I should be doing.... this

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/asento3.jpg

From my perspective this guy's hanging one cheek off too... but his knee is all the way out.

why should you be doing that? hanging your knee off doesn't mean you are doing something right... screw what your buddies say. at a lean like you have in your photos you look alright, maybe just trying to hard... there is no reason to drastically hang your knee out there. it doesnt do shit. sure some use it as a "lean indicator" but if you've never done it before then it won't be indicating anything to you... ride the way you are comfortable or go take a race class. wouldn't worry about it.

why should you be doing that? hanging your knee off doesn't mean you are doing something right... screw what your buddies say. at a lean like you have in your photos you look just fine. there is no reason to drastically hang your knee out there. it doesnt do shit.

i think will is in the mentality that since all the pro riders do it, they most likely have the best/fastest riding position. he's not trying to get the proper positioning to be a poser, but just to have the appropriate positioning. it's also crucial to learn correctly in the beginning because it's really hard to "unlearn" bad habits.

why should you be doing that? hanging your knee off doesn't mean you are doing something right... screw what your buddies say. at a lean like you have in your photos you look alright, maybe just trying to hard... there is no reason to drastically hang your knee out there. it doesnt do shit. sure some use it as a "lean indicator" but if you've never done it before then it won't be indicating anything to you... ride the way you are comfortable or go take a race class. wouldn't worry about it.

As I said in the first post.... the whole point of sticking the knee out is to use it as a lean indicator. And if my knee doesn't stick out that means I have no lean indicator meaning there's a chance I might be over leaning the bike.

But aside from that I'm just curious what I'm doing wrong to make my knee unable to stick out as far as it should. Foot positioning? Slide butt off more? Keep my body more upright? :scratch

i think will is in the mentality that since all the pro riders do it, they most likely have the best/fastest riding position. he's not trying to get the proper positioning to be a poser, but just to have the appropriate positioning. it's also crucial to learn correctly in the beginning because it's really hard to "unlearn" bad habits.

Well on the contrary.... the pros actually don't stick their knees out that far because they're running race slicks enabling them to run crazy lean angles.

I'm running DOT street tires.... with my current knee position the only way I can drag knee is if I'm running slicks and have "rossi" as my last name. But unfortunately I have neither.

touching a knee is not something to try on the street. last time i touched a knee and accidentally a toe (because im a dumbass) on the street it just about ripped my leg off.

touching a knee is not something to try on the street. last time i touched a knee and accidentally a toe (because im a dumbass) on the street it just about ripped my leg off.

Thanks for your input... but as you can see I have knee pucks... and if you read in my first post I'm doing my track day in less than 2 weeks. I just want to find out what I'm doing wrong before I do it.

didnt mean to bust your balls... but still knee pucks or no, little bump wont feel like a little bump to your knee.

i don't think you are doing anything "wrong". you have a knee out a little bit, to get your knee way out you really have to rotate your hip.

For the amount of lean you have on the bike, you're fine.

sure some use it as a "lean indicator" but if you've never done it before then it won't be indicating anything to you...
I have to disagree. I have had several occurrances where my rear tire barely crosses its threshold of grip, and having that knee down, I was able to push with it slightly until I could regain traction.

YOu don't want to ride like this guy:
http://www.easttnriders.com/forum/image.php?u=426&dateline=1177951962
Well on the contrary.... the pros actually don't stick their knees out that far because they're running race slicks enabling them to run crazy lean angles.
RIght...cause when you're leaned all the way over, you can't put your knee out. There's no room there. However, they do put the knee out when they're not leaning all the way over.

dragging knee has no indication of speed or ability. I fly past guys in the mtn who are dragging knee in every corner, yet I'm just relaxed and cruising like in my sig......

as others have mentioned, in your pics there is no need. for your knee to touch in those you would have to hang extremely way off the bike or either be carrying more speed to lean the bike over more.

ride within your limits and eventually it will touch. I had been riding hard enough to drag knee for years, but just recently put sliders on my leathers. the first time the left touched I immediately pulled it back in and tucked it as I usually do. every corner thereafter it was dragging. yea, a coolness factor at times. but for street riding, what's the point??? oh yea, I run race takeoffs on the street so I have a bit more lean to gain prior to loosing the tire......

dragging knee has no indication of speed or ability. I fly past guys in the mtn who are dragging knee in every corner, yet I'm just relaxed and cruising like in my sig......

as others have mentioned, in your pics there is no need. for your knee to touch in those you would have to hang extremely way off the bike or either be carrying more speed to lean the bike over more.

ride within your limits and eventually it will touch. I had been riding hard enough to drag knee for years, but just recently put sliders on my leathers. the first time the left touched I immediately pulled it back in and tucked it as I usually do. every corner thereafter it was dragging. yea, a coolness factor at times. but for street riding, what's the point??? oh yea, I run race takeoffs on the street so I have a bit more lean to gain prior to loosing the tire......

I don't really want to make a defense for everytime you guys make a post but if you guys read my original post I think I made everything pretty clear.

> I'm not trying to drag knee to look cool.... but I want to use it for what it's intended for.... a gauge..... or a tool.

> The pics I posted were at a very high speed corner.... could easily go over 100mph and still won't be leaned far over enough to drag.

> I will be riding the track.... already signed up for two track days and I want to get my body positioning right before I go. At the track it's easy to get carried away and lean over too much.... especially so for me if my knee won't stick out.

What I want to know is what I'm doing wrong....... and why my damn knee isn't able to stick out. I mean I really appreciate the input but it seems like I'm repeating the same thing over and over.

As I said in the first post.... the whole point of sticking the knee out is to use it as a lean indicator. And if my knee doesn't stick out that means I have no lean indicator meaning there's a chance I might be over leaning the bike.

But aside from that I'm just curious what I'm doing wrong to make my knee unable to stick out as far as it should. Foot positioning? Slide butt off more? Keep my body more upright? :scratch


That's because you're nowhere near overleaning the bike, you need to have a little more faith in the capability of your tires, they will get down to about 45-50 degrees of lean.

Notice the difference............look, his knee's not touching the ground either and he's practically scraping his elbow on the strip.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/pic6.jpg


http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2007/usa-superbike/fontana/tim-sun-sb-race/p07.jpg

now i remember why is stay out of this forum lol... first off your tires have nothing to do with how much you can lean or not the way your describing it... the profile on your tire is enough to get your knee'd down farther then you can imagine.... slicks dont make you lean any better, it all depends on the profile of the tire.. i assume your running a 180/55 which is more then enough...you want to lean more.. either pick up more speed which forces you to push on the bike more or take tighter turns at speed... sheesh

now i remember why is stay out of this forum lol... first off your tires have nothing to do with how much you can lean or not the way your describing it... the profile on your tire is enough to get your knee'd down farther then you can imagine.... slicks dont make you lean any better, it all depends on the profile of the tire.. i assume your running a 180/55 which is more then enough...you want to lean more.. either pick up more speed which forces you to push on the bike more or take tighter turns at speed... sheesh

Alright I'll take your and SPL's advice and keep my body position/knee the way it is.

I just thought I would need immortal motogp like lean angles to be able to drag knee since mine barely sticks out.

But I'll have faith in my tires and LEAN it.... but if I low-side, you two are getting a beat down. :hammer :D

But for a final time..... the pics I posted were at a very highspeed corner...... I've taken much tighter turns at much higher lean angles (much lower speeds) to the point where I only have about 1/8 inch of chicken strips in the front tire.... and the knee still isn't scraping. But if you guys insist... I'll take your advice and not worry about the knee.

open your hips up to the corner, try to make you hips face the turn as much as you can. this will release your hip socket and your knee will naturally extend out. keep the ball of your foot on the peg but rotate it into the corner as well. your knee will drop right down.

are you on the balls of your inside foot?? that might help.

you could move your arse more off the seat, but for the angle your bike is in those shots it is unnessarary.

Actually you look pretty good. I never advise on trying or dragging your knee on the street, thats just plain stupid.

However, I would say bring your head down some, your chest down little more and get off the seat little more. Try and almost hug your bike. Don't TRY to drag your knee, cause if you do and you do drag it, it will scare the shit out of you and the last place you want to pucker up is on the street.

Take it to the track and learn the bike, not on the street. To much trash in the road or Will, you will go Boing :D

Really though your form is fine.

open your hips up to the corner, try to make you hips face the turn as much as you can. this will release your hip socket and your knee will naturally extend out. keep the ball of your foot on the peg but rotate it into the corner as well. your knee will drop right down.

Thank you! :cheers

Just the type of advice I was looking for; I'll try that.

YOu don't want to ride like this guy:
http://www.easttnriders.com/forum/image.php?u=426&dateline=1177951962


wtf was goin on? haha .. yeah you don't wna ride like him

Like Russ said Will your positioning looks good...It's hard to tell from the pic but it almost looks like you should scoot your but back and out a little more...kinda looks like your up on top the tank a little if that makes sense. I'm sure the coaches will help iron out your form when we go to Willow next week man.

wtf was goin on? haha .. yeah you don't wna ride like him

I have no idea why he was riding like that. He may have been a rookie that was thinking he had it leaned WAY over, and was scared of going over too far.



When you slide your butt off the seat, do two things:
1) Have the ball of your inside foot on the peg, and your calf muscle flexed, such that your ankle is high as possible.
2) Sit your inside butt cheek down on your heel of the inside foot....or come close to it.

From there, you will find great improvement by looking ahead. If you look at the road too close to you, lean angle seems exaggerated. If you look way ahead, it doesn't look so bad.

I have no idea why he was riding like that. He may have been a rookie that was thinking he had it leaned WAY over, and was scared of going over too far.



When you slide your butt off the seat, do two things:
1) Have the ball of your inside foot on the peg, and your calf muscle flexed, such that your ankle is high as possible.
2) Sit your inside butt cheek down on your heel of the inside foot....or come close to it.

From there, you will find great improvement by looking ahead. If you look at the road too close to you, lean angle seems exaggerated. If you look way ahead, it doesn't look so bad.

I think that could be what I'm doing wrong.... there was ONE TIME ... just once where my knee just stuck out like it was nothing. I couldn't duplicate that anymore and I didn't know what I did to make it stick out so easily. But I know I can do it, just didn't know how. Now that you mentioned it I think it has to do with my foot.

Like Russ said Will your positioning looks good...It's hard to tell from the pic but it almost looks like you should scoot your but back and out a little more...kinda looks like your up on top the tank a little if that makes sense. I'm sure the coaches will help iron out your form when we go to Willow next week man.

I don't know man..... last time I rode Asuza with Cisco, Don, and Joe they all told me my knee doesn't stick out. Don said from what he saw from behind is if I were to stick my knee out; I would've dragged.

I asked Cisco for advice and he just said, "JUST STICK IT OUT LIKE BAMM!!!"... which didn't help much :lol

And I'm always the camera bike so I've never seen my body positioning from behind while we're riding. But I didn't know there will be coaches at the track..... I guess I'll try to have everything worked out then.

You look okay, don't stress or think so much about it. Get to a track!

Where's your mirrors?? :shifty

dont worry about it, i dont stick my knee all the way out either.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v450/snipers002/_ML_9472.jpg

You look okay, don't stress or think so much about it. Get to a track!

Where's your mirrors?? :shifty

I have a bar end mirror :shifty

And yea I am taking it to the track.... about 10 more days to go :punk

Will, I'm stoked you're going to the track. Which trackday org and day? I'm doing Pahrump with Ti2TT Memorial Weekend. Sign up if you can...amazing track.

Some good advice in this thread. Repeating:

Body position can be very different for different people, and yours looks pretty good.

Good question about your toe position. Try moving the ball of your inside foot to the end of the peg. Then, consider rotating your ankle "out" a little, which will be "down" when your bike is leaned in a corner. This will naturally cause your knee to move away from your bike.

Always good advice to try to get your upper body lower. Good for center of gravity, and can also "promote" your lower body and leg/knee moving down.

But bottom line: you look good. You have to be flying to generate enough lean in a fast corner (like in your pic) to have your knee touch. It will likely happen first in a slower turn. Just concentrate on being smooth and on the gas in the turn.

My .02

C U at the track.

Will, I'm stoked you're going to the track. Which trackday org and day? I'm doing Pahrump with Ti2TT Memorial Weekend. Sign up if you can...amazing track.

Some good advice in this thread. Repeating:

Body position can be very different for different people, and yours looks pretty good.

Good question about your toe position. Try moving the ball of your inside foot to the end of the peg. Then, consider rotating your ankle "out" a little, which will be "down" when your bike is leaned in a corner. This will naturally cause your knee to move away from your bike.

Always good advice to try to get your upper body lower. Good for center of gravity, and can also "promote" your lower body and leg/knee moving down.

But bottom line: you look good. You have to be flying to generate enough lean in a fast corner (like in your pic) to have your knee touch. It will likely happen first in a slower turn. Just concentrate on being smooth and on the gas in the turn.

My .02

C U at the track.

I'm signed up for Track Daz for Willow Springs next weekend.... and also Calispeedway AMA track for July 1st.

Thanks for the advice man, since they have people taking pics at the track I guess I'll find out what my body position looks like after I use the advice you guys gave me. :cheers

Right On! As you know, Big Track is Very Fast (so major speed required to generate lean). But 4B is a good , slow turn to drag. Caliphotography usually shoots one session from the top of the horseshoe...a front view coming into 4A or a rear view going into 4B. Then, plenty of slow stuff at Fontucky. Have a blast!!! Oh, and if you haven't already done so, you might want to check out a few of Shaggy's vids at shaggystudios.com.

Right On! As you know, Big Track is Very Fast (so major speed required to generate lean). But 4B is a good , slow turn to drag. Caliphotography usually shoots one session from the top of the horseshoe...a front view coming into 4A or a rear view going into 4B. Then, plenty of slow stuff at Fontucky. Have a blast!!! Also, if you haven't already, check out a few of Shaggy's vids...shaggystudios.com.

I may be restating some of the points that have already been made but here it goes:

I agree about foot position. Getting the balls of your feet on the peg while in the turn will also keep you from catching your toe on the ground. Talk about scary when the road wants to take your foot under the peg.

So many people talk about dragging knees and wearing those dreaded chicken strips away. The track schools will stress form and technique before adding speed. Hanging off the bike will lower your center of gravity and make it possible to take a turn at the same speed but with less lean angle. It's not about how low you get so you can drag a knee. It's about getting low on the bike so you can take the curves faster with the same lean angle. The knee dragging is just a byproduct of proper technique.

As far as hanging off, make sure that your entire body is hanging off. So many guys look like they are sitting in the center of the bike but their butt is hanging off. Shoulders should be parallel to the bike's longitudinal axis just as when you're sitting straight up while riding in a straight line. If your inside fist isn't in front of your face, you're probably sitting up too high.

I'd work on body position, foot position and throttle control. The knee dragging and tire wear will follow at their own pace.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

I may be restating some of the points that have already been made but here it goes:

I agree about foot position. Getting the balls of your feet on the peg while in the turn will also keep you from catching your toe on the ground. Talk about scary when the road wants to take your foot under the peg.

So many people talk about dragging knees and wearing those dreaded chicken strips away. The track schools will stress form and technique before adding speed. Hanging off the bike will lower your center of gravity and make it possible to take a turn at the same speed but with less lean angle. It's not about how low you get so you can drag a knee. It's about getting low on the bike so you can take the curves faster with the same lean angle. The knee dragging is just a byproduct of proper technique.

As far as hanging off, make sure that your entire body is hanging off. So many guys look like they are sitting in the center of the bike but their butt is hanging off. Shoulders should be parallel to the bike's longitudinal axis just as when you're sitting straight up while riding in a straight line. If your inside fist isn't in front of your face, you're probably sitting up too high.

I'd work on body position, foot position and throttle control. The knee dragging and tire wear will follow at their own pace.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

Well I don't have chicken strips on front and rear tires so I know I've been in some pretty deep lean angles. And I never really tried to put forth the extra effort to get rid of them nor try to drag knee. But I just want to have good form.... in whatever I do I believe good form leads to good performance. So whether it's running, tennis, driving, or riding I stress a lot on getting my form right.

I put the bike on stands and went out to try the foot positioning thing.... and OH SNAP..... when I tippy toed on the peg, and twisted the bottom of my foot inwards, my knee stuck right out!! :punk

This whole time I've been riding with my foot flat.... I rest the ball of my foot on the pegs but it's still flat..... like my foot is parallel with the bike and that's why I couldn't get my knee to stick out. I'll go take some pics in a bit.....

Ok I went outside and snapped some pics..... you can clearly see what a big difference it made.

Before:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/007-1.jpg

After:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/WillWong927/008.jpg

HAHAHHAHA:) WILL SHAVES HIS ARMS..... SUCH A GIRLY BOY.....:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:l ol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

Just giving ya a yard time man.. your going to be hooked after your first track day.. Once you do the track you will start to understand your lean angles much better..:cheers:cheers

Looking at those photos of you practising,the bike isnt on a 45 to 50 degree angle,and you arent leaning right off the bike.
Get a bike stand that is angled at 45-50 degrees and then stick your leg out.
If you look at some of those pics with the big boy racers,the knee isnt exactly out,its more down and tucked in,with the whole body off the bike.The knee may be just stopping them from actually falling.

Balance.

Theres an idea..........if it hasnt already been done. A rear wheel stand that allows a rider to lean 45-50 side to side,without leaving your garage.No knocking of the knees and no ass rash.
Head down,ass up and hang on.
Thats my billabongs worth.........crazy aussie.

HAHAHHAHA:) WILL SHAVES HIS ARMS..... SUCH A GIRLY BOY.....:lol:

Just giving ya a yard time man.. your going to be hooked after your first track day.. Once you do the track you will start to understand your lean angles much better..:cheers:cheers

Man I always get accused of shaving my arms :hammer

But I'm asian, so I have an excuse for naturally hairless arms. :biggrin

One of my buddies is asian and we will start cracking on each other and at the very end I always come out with "Yeah but your still Asain" Then he yells "I hate you fuckers" and we all get a good laugh and get back to our boozing..
The last party we had, he thew a toilet plunger at me which narrowly missed a direct impact to my nose.. So out of kindness I used the plunger to hold up his hat like a flag for the rest of the night..
I have since called him shithead since he still hasnt washed the hat and has actually worn it since then.. Sick facker...

One of my buddies is asian and we will start cracking on each other and at the very end I always come out with "Yeah but your still Asain" Then he yells "I hate you fuckers" and we all get a good laugh and get back to our boozing..
The last party we had, he thew a toilet plunger at me which narrowly missed a direct impact to my nose.. So out of kindness I used the plunger to hold up his hat like a flag for the rest of the night..
I have since called him shithead since he still hasnt washed the hat and has actually worn it since then.. Sick facker...

:lol :cheers

Hummm...different bodies different styles...I just let me knee hang out there I don't rotate my foot at all...but like I said you'll iron it out at the track...:cheers

I have a bar end mirror :shifty

And yea I am taking it to the track.... about 10 more days to go :punk

Mirror? As in one? You don't ride like this ;) do you?

Anyway, glad to see you're signed up. I think you will find the canyons suck for many reasons after that...:cheers

Mirror? As in one? You don't ride like this ;) do you?

Anyway, glad to see you're signed up. I think you will find the canyons suck for many reasons after that...:cheers

Yea one on the right bar end. Even with my stock mirrors I never really use them anyways.... I always turned my whole body and head to look before I change lanes. I took them off one day just to try it out.... and loved it. Kinda squidly but oh well :D :p

Yea one on the right bar end. Even with my stock mirrors I never really use them anyways.... I always turned my whole body and head to look before I change lanes. I took them off one day just to try it out.... and loved it. Kinda squidly but oh well :D :p

Think of them as tools for survival on the streets. You want to arm yourself with everything possible to help you survive out there. Seeing something in your mirror may save your life one day. Take it from some one who's been plastered twice by cars on the streets of LA...

Buuuut when you go to that track, rip those suckas off asap!

dont over obsess with it go to the track and everything will come together... youll love it

Well on the contrary.... the pros actually don't stick their knees out that far because they're running race slicks enabling them to run crazy lean angles.

I'm running DOT street tires.... with my current knee position the only way I can drag knee is if I'm running slicks and have "rossi" as my last name. But unfortunately I have neither.

Sorry, but you are fortunately mistaken. You dont need slicks or any race tire to drag knee. In fact, I dont stick mine out much at all. And i dont use slicks.

http://moteroweb.eresmas.com/jarama2.jpg

Well thanks for the reassurance..... I had no clue street tires were capable of such lean angles.

Well thanks for the reassurance..... I had no clue street tires were capable of such lean angles.


Well, the picture on my r6 is with DOT race tires (pirelli). However, the picture below is with my race gixxer while doing the break-in with OEM tires.

http://moteroweb.eresmas.com/gixxer1.jpg

Yeah you look fine for the lean angle you are on however if you want to get the most out of your cornering you may need to relax a little, slide one (whole) cheek off the seat and maybe move a little closer to the front of the bike.
But unless your mates are leaving you way behind i wouldnt be too worried. Nice action shots by the way!!!

The late, great David Jeffries said: "I never got my knee down on the street".

hey will,

nice shots. i know that the minute i quit worrying about getting my knee down and just concentrated on my form i found that i only had to stick it out a little and there the ground was.

honestly it's pointless on the street; you can go plenty fast without ever touching. most guys do it just for the look.

from those last pics you posted it looks like you have your foot position sorted. as others have said, you need to get a bit lower- put your face to the mirror (or where your mirror would have been). also, flatten your elbows... this will force you to drop down and will provide you with greater steering input (easier). trust your tires, get in position, and countersteer the bike over.

best of luck at the track; sucks i am moving out there in just over a month and now i don't have a bike to ride. really depressing to be honest!

I found that a track day will get your knee down. obviously, the faster you go, say, on the track, the knee will start to come down.

ok will update status... how was ur track day, etc ?

ok will update status... how was ur track day, etc ?

Wish I could upload the track videos on youtube but they're all over 10 minutes. If anybody wants to see them just PM me your myspace account and I'll add you so you can see the videos.

As for the track itself... it's a very highspeed track so the only drag knee action I got was a scrape on my right puck. :p

Wish I could upload the track videos on youtube but they're all over 10 minutes. If anybody wants to see them just PM me your myspace account and I'll add you so you can see the videos.

As for the track itself... it's a very highspeed track so the only drag knee action I got was a scrape on my right puck. :p


Aside from all the knee dragging mumbojumbo...how did you like the track? The TrackDaz org? Did you take advantage of any instruction? What did ya learn?

Aside from all the knee dragging mumbojumbo...how did you like the track? The TrackDaz org? Did you take advantage of any instruction? What did ya learn?

I think I would like a more technical track more but overall I liked it. Felt really comfortable out there but pushing 8-9/10ths lap after lap for 20 minutes really took it's toll on me. I didn't even ride the last 3 sessions.

Were you one of those instructors? I remembered you saying you're going to be out there from the so cal thread a while back but I forgot about it till now.

To tell you the truth the only thing that had an affect on me was when one of the instructors told us how right before turn 8 if you run off.... you're going to hit a barrier and then a wall and end up in the parkinglot on the other side.... and at the end of turn 1 if you run straight through, you're going to get "fucked up" (or somewhere along the lines of that) scared the shit outta me. I still braked deep into turn 1 though but everytime I approached turn 8 his words kept swimming around in my mind.

My only gripe is that the slower riders have a tendency to not hit the apex and hug the inside line.... they want to ride slow, yet they ride along the outside. And since I was in the street group I couldn't pass in the inside so that was pretty frustrating at times.

But aside from that it was a good experience :D

I think I would like a more technical track more The faster you go the more technical the track becomes. Once you get into sub 28 territory it gets plenty technical.;)



To tell you the truth the only thing that had an affect on me was when one of the instructors told us how right before turn 8 if you run off.... you're going to hit a barrier and then a wall and end up in the parkinglot on the other side.... and at the end of turn 1 if you run straight through, you're going to get "fucked up" (or somewhere along the lines of that) scared the shit outta me.

Hey now...don't forget what I said about T2! Not too fond of my little "scared straight" speech huh?:lol It's like this Will...I don't believe in candy coating reality. There are a couple areas at wsir, due to the extremely high speeds, where a rider's best option after blowing off the track is to hit the eject button. People have died there because a) they weren't made aware of certain obstacles in certain "off track" areas. And b) they were never told that getting off the bike is their best option. I'm sorry if the facts I presented were disturbing to you...really I am. If I came off as a complete asshole, but saved the life of one of our customers with the ol tough love speech...then just go ahead and call me mr asshole.:)

My only gripe is that the slower riders have a tendency to like to run wide.... they want to ride slow, yet they ride along the outside. And since I was in the street group I couldn't pass in the inside so that was pretty frustrating at times.

Yeah...I know. We fight that at every event. We pound and pound and pound it into their heads, but sometimes they translate the canyon riding "techniques" they've learned to the track. Best way to avoid this scenario is to get the seat time required to bump up to sport group.



But aside from that it was a good experience :D

I'm sincerely glad to hear that...the next time you attend a Trackdaz event come and grab me before your sesh and we'll throw some more tools into your belt. I'm easy to find...I'm the one with "mr asshole" on the back of my leathers.;)


Were you one of the instructors?

Yep...heres one of me in T2 and one of me working w/a customer in the race group.

The faster you go the more technical the track becomes. Once you get into sub 28 territory it gets plenty technical.;)





Hey now...don't forget what I said about T2! Not too fond of my little "scared straight" speech huh?:lol It's like this Will...I don't believe in candy coating reality. There are a couple areas at wsir, due to the extremely high speeds, where a rider's best option after blowing off the track is to hit the eject button. People have died there because a) they weren't made aware of certain obstacles in certain "off track" areas. And b) they were never told that getting off the bike is their best option. I'm sorry if the facts I presented were disturbing to you...really I am. If I came off as a complete asshole, but saved the life of one of our customers with the ol tough love speech...then just go ahead and call me mr asshole.:)



Yeah...I know. We fight that at every event. We pound and pound and pound it into their heads, but sometimes they translate the canyon riding "techniques" they've learned to the track. Best way to avoid this scenario is to get the seat time required to bump up to sport group.





I'm sincerely glad to hear that...the next time you attend a Trackdaz event come and grab me before your sesh and we'll throw some more tools into your belt. I'm easy to find...I'm the one with "mr asshole" on the back of my leathers.;)




Yep...heres one of me in T2 and one of me working w/a customer in the race group.

You weren't being an asshole for giving us the truth.... your words scared me straight when we had the orientation. But after I walked out I just kept thinking to myself how much more dangerous the canyons are and that put me more at ease. And once I got onto the track I felt pretty at home... in a way that track almost feels like the canyons because of the elevation changes... but just minus the cars, guardrails, cliffs, blind corners.

I definitely want to go back again. I watched my videos over and over again and I see a lot of room for improvements. I timed one of my laps and it was 1:47. Hopefully next time I go I can be in the 1 min 30's.

But after I walked out I just kept thinking to myself how much more dangerous the canyons are and that put me more at ease. .

Now that is an enlightened viewpoint.

See ya out there.:punk

If I read correctly you want to stick you leg out more?

Try rotating your foot, your leg will have no choice but to follow.

Your body position doesnt look all that bad...

If you want to drag knee's, try going back and forth on your preferred section of road (that road looks fun) and slowly work on your speed and angle.

Go through it faster and faster in 5mph steps

The corner pictured looks like it needs 90 mph +

Try some slower, sharper non cambered corners to work on

If I read correctly you want to stick you leg out more?

Try rotating your foot, your leg will have no choice but to follow.

Your body position doesnt look all that bad...

If you want to drag knee's, try going back and forth on your preferred section of road (that road looks fun) and slowly work on your speed and angle.

Go through it faster and faster in 5mph steps

The corner pictured looks like it needs 90 mph +

Try some slower, sharper non cambered corners to work on

Thanks for the advice..... I think I pretty much gave up on the whole knee sticking out thing because I realized I'm going just as fast if not faster than those who are dragging knee. I would see the guy in front of me dragging his knee or almost dragging but then I'm riding faster than he is. I'm just too use to the foot positioning now it's hard for me to twist my foot to rotate it.

You're right that is a very fast corner and I think I was actually doing over 80mph at the time. My buddy who did drag in that corner said he was going well over 100.

:confused eh, didnt even see the 2nd page! :rolleyes

One of the guys I ride with on saturdays said you can put the balls of your feel right on the ends/edges of the pegs which will naturally make your knees stick out.

I might try this on the GSXR going right as I have a problem on this bike, but not on my other bike :cursing

My theory is that the exhaust, since its on the opposit side requires less lean...

You can probably get your butt off more but its more of an extream position and the top of your body needs to follow.

I know what you mean, some people can ride without moving their butt. Some of the older guys I ride with are pulling away from me and sitting 100% upright- they also have mx bars which aids an upright position. They are on DOT tyres and im on PP's at the moment- well thats my excuse. Actual fact they are much better then me.

im so glad i found this thread! thanks will, ive had the same problem as u, but it was only one side, i think my right side (havent ridden for 4months, stupid crash) doesnt stick out as far as my left knee, never figured out why, and i think this is it.. i wont be riding hard for another few months yet, but im gon akeep it in mind :D:D

Will,

I may be a little late with this post and it sounds like you are content witht the way you are riding without dragging your knee (which is fine), but I was reading and thinking about when I first started dragging my knee and I felt alot like you were describing. I was hanging off but the speed of the bike and the lean angle just seemed to make my knee and my body position not want to push my knee down. I didn't have chicken strips either so I knew I was leaning far enough.

The one thing that ended up helping me was using my arms and hands to push the bike away from the side I was hanging off. example: if your turning left and hanging off the inside left of the bike, I would use my arms/hands to push the bike towards the right. This enabled me to 1. lessen the lean angle of the bike which is what dragging your knee is supposed to do and 2. it put me in better position with my shoulders and head on the inside of the bike. I know it sounds strange when you are trying to lean in and get your knee down to push your bike the opposite direction and more upward, but that really did force my body down and I started dragging immediately after that.

I hope that makes sense since this is my first post and not sure if I am describing it adequately, but that is my two sense and try it out if you want and see if it helps you too.

Will,

I may be a little late with this post and it sounds like you are content witht the way you are riding without dragging your knee (which is fine), but I was reading and thinking about when I first started dragging my knee and I felt alot like you were describing. I was hanging off but the speed of the bike and the lean angle just seemed to make my knee and my body position not want to push my knee down. I didn't have chicken strips either so I knew I was leaning far enough.

The one thing that ended up helping me was using my arms and hands to push the bike away from the side I was hanging off. example: if your turning left and hanging off the inside left of the bike, I would use my arms/hands to push the bike towards the right. This enabled me to 1. lessen the lean angle of the bike which is what dragging your knee is supposed to do and 2. it put me in better position with my shoulders and head on the inside of the bike. I know it sounds strange when you are trying to lean in and get your knee down to push your bike the opposite direction and more upward, but that really did force my body down and I started dragging immediately after that.

I hope that makes sense since this is my first post and not sure if I am describing it adequately, but that is my two sense and try it out if you want and see if it helps you too.

Hey thanks for the advice :)

I recently watched a video of myself riding for the first time and I noticed that in almost every corner I'm about 2-3 inches from dragging. It's really close to the ground but never quite touches.

I did drag knee on a corner at my last track day and I see why people drag even though they don't need to. It's just for the fact that it gives you a reassurance... or at least that's how I felt when it was dragging. I just felt more stable and reassured instead of having my knee hovering around and I have no clue how far I'm leaning.

I do hang off a lot, but what I noticed is that I hang my upper body over a lot more than most people do. I think that is what's keeping my lower body from being able to extend out to drag the knee.

I'll see how things go.... so far right now what I'm doing is working for me so I'll stick to it. I think I still have quite a bit more lean angle to go.... which means I still have room to go faster in the corners. Once I become fast enough I think the knee will drag even if it doens't stick out.

with a well controlled rider, who has correct braking and acceleration control, dot tyres are capable of incredible lean angle.

but just because the tyres can handle it doesnt mean that they will handle you pushing for max lean angle. take your time, and treat it step by step and you will get there in the end. safely.

my gyro recorded me at a 45 degree lean angle yesterday without really pushing it on dot bridgstones with 2 hours on them. ill post the video when i download the codec to edit it. i finally got my onboard camera sort of set up.

Stop being fucking logical ant. GEEEZZZZ