Complete late '01 Fuel Injection system on a '99 engine in a '96 bike.

4th gear roll on, DJ200

136.2 HP
64.3 ft-lb

Nope, the motors not stock, or even a 750 anymore. The head and valves are unmodified. The valve job is straight out of the Suzuki manual.

That was on 89 octane pump gas. The first guess on the cam timing gave hp and torque peaks at the same rpm as a stock motor, which is good for a big bore, but more agressive timing may give more power.

I don't miss my jets at all.

I'll post the chart when I get it scanned.

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/wfo108.jpg

Off to a good start. The old motor seems to like the new airbox.

Same gas I use in my lawnmower.

Map still needs lots of work.

How involved was the swap and do you think it is worth the time/money over just buying a newer FI bike?

I really like my bike except for the damn carbs and I'm always up for doing something a little bit different. FI on my '97 750 would be right up my alley. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Could you possibly list the things that needed changing. I'm guessing the whole wiring harness, Fuel pump, head, and the gauge cluster?


Nice numbers also http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

-Zoah

Zoah said:

How involved was the swap and do you think it is worth the time/money over just buying a newer FI bike?

I really like my bike except for the damn carbs and I'm always up for doing something a little bit different. FI on my '97 750 would be right up my alley. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Could you possibly list the things that needed changing. I'm guessing the whole wiring harness, Fuel pump, head, and the gauge cluster?


Nice numbers also http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/punk.gif

-Zoah




The basics are in this thread:

http://www.gixxer.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB7&Number=395444&Forum=U BB7&Words=2002&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0& Limit=25&Old=1month&Main=392805&Search=true#Post39 5444

As far as if it's worth it, that's a matter of perspective. I think it's worth it if you have the basic skills and you're considering going much past a pipe and stage 1 cams with those damn carbs. Its more work than slapping on a set of flatslides, but doesn't have to cost any more, and the results are much better. Same or better power up top, much smoother down low, and way easier to set up.

I have a dyno sheet in my file from Lee's web page for a stage 4 '96 motor he built. It was 139.2 with flatslides. I adjusted the cams and just cleared 140 today. The head on this bike is unported and I'm still running pump gas. I think anyone with the basic mechanical skills could bolt one of these together in their garage. The trick is getting the fueling to work after you do, and FI makes it so much easier. I also think the new style air box is much better than the old, particularly the carbed one.

The differences between the '96-'97 & '98-'99 motors that apply to this project are:

1- The rods are better in the '98-'99s. This is important because the new redline is 500 rpm higher

2- The '98-'99 head makes more power, call it 5 hp on this motor.

3- The '98-'99 Gear Position sensor works with the new FI, the '96-'97 doesn't.

4- The '98-'99 Cam and Valve Cover are set up for the Cam Position Sensor. I added a Cam Position trigger to a '96 cam because I didn't want to buy another Stage 2 Intake cam. I think you could drill the old valve cover to take the cam sensor, the boss is there, but I'm guessing. I used the '99 valve cover.

I'll post the new Dyno sheet when I get it scanned.

http://www.gixxer.com/uploads/mwman.jpg

A pretty good example of retarding the cams 5 degrees, trying to get too much HP out of the head, or maybe a drag race vs. road race tune.

Mr. MW could you please explain why retarding the cams would net you more HP?

Thanks

Bostitch said:

Mr. MW could you please explain why retarding the cams would net you more HP?

Thanks



By closing the intake valve later, the cylinder has more time to fill. That's what happens at high rpm when things are really rolling along down the intake port. At lower speeds, the valve is held open too long which robs cylinder pressure. This is why higher compression complements big camshafts with aggressive timing.

When you retard the exhaust cam, overlap is increased. When the engine is on the pipe, it gives the intake charge a punt in the ass before the piston starts drawing it down. When the engine is off the pipe, a lot of overlap starts the intake charge going the wrong direction. This makes valleys in the torque curve. With carbs, the valleys can become holes.

The timing change above retarded both cams to change the intake closing point by 5 degrees, while leaving the overlap unchanged. As you can see, the effect is like sticking a pin in the torque peak and rocking the curve. Adding overlap pulls the peaks higher and makes the valleys lower.

You need to watch the piston to valve clearance when retarding the exhaust cam.

nice. an 813?

MrMW said:

The timing change above retarded both cams to change the intake closing point by 5 degrees, while leaving the overlap unchanged. As you can see, the effect is like sticking a pin in the torque peak and rocking the curve. Adding overlap pulls the peaks higher and makes the valleys lower.

You need to watch the piston to valve clearance when retarding the exhaust cam.





Thanks for the explaination MrMW. So when you are retarding the exhaust cam increasing overlap you are peaking the torque curve but making it the less "smooth" (filled with valleys). But instead you left the overlap the same causing the curve to "smooth" out. Making the power delivery more predictable instead of all top end power. Am I on the right track here?

somejeffguy said:

nice. an 813?




The torque gives it away doesn't it?

Other than that, stage 2 cams, spring kit & Ti retainers on intake side only, adjusted deck height. The new FI donated a better airbox and made it easy to tune.

If you can take the motor apart and time cams, you can screw one of these together in your garage.

I'll run it at track days for awhile and then start working on the head.

Bostitch said:


MrMW said:

The timing change above retarded both cams to change the intake closing point by 5 degrees, while leaving the overlap unchanged. As you can see, the effect is like sticking a pin in the torque peak and rocking the curve. Adding overlap pulls the peaks higher and makes the valleys lower.

You need to watch the piston to valve clearance when retarding the exhaust cam.





Thanks for the explaination MrMW. So when you are retarding the exhaust cam increasing overlap you are peaking the torque curve but making it the less "smooth" (filled with valleys). But instead you left the overlap the same causing the curve to "smooth" out. Making the power delivery more predictable instead of all top end power. Am I on the right track here?



You've got it.

Moving the intake closing took a few ft-lbs of torque from 7K rpm and added a couple at 13K rpm. Leaving the overlap the same kept the torque dip at 8.5K rpm about the same depth, and came pretty close to not changing the maximum torque.

motoman's highly classified supersonic nozzle intake porting technique should be good for another 35 hp or so, don't you think?

an infinitely variable valve timing and lift setup would be a neat project. or we can just wait a decade or so, i'm sure the technology will start trickling down from civics and corollas eventually. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

somejeffguy said:

motoman's highly classified supersonic nozzle intake porting technique should be good for another 35 hp or so, don't you think?

an infinitely variable valve timing and lift setup would be a neat project. or we can just wait a decade or so, i'm sure the technology will start trickling down from civics and corollas eventually. http://www.gixxer.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif





I think you're trying to bait me into another Motoma'm tyrade. Not that I need much encouragement. It works better after I've had a couple beers though. Try me later tonight.

When the Corrolla bits get cheap enough on Fleabay, maybe I'll give them a try on this old war horse.