I'm new to track days, This was my first day at the track(msrh). I think my heads all wrong, what do you guys/gals see? Im the one in front(of course) and I'm about to apex the corner, dont know if that matters but just letting you know

I think that looks pretty good. I'm no expert, but what people are telling me is to get lower and more off the bike. I think your head could be lower and farther to the inside of the turn.

i agree, anymore comments. c'mon guys , I know there are alot of you out there

Same. You do look good. Get off the seat anymore and put your head down more. Look your looking though the turn to see whats on the other side.

THATS TURN 17???

I HATE THAT TURN....it sooo damn slick....i guess u went to the noob trackday....

lookin good bro

lol at twisted, yep, you are correct, I had a blast. thanks

I think that looks pretty good. I'm no expert, but what people are telling me is to get lower and more off the bike. I think your head could be lower and farther to the inside of the turn.

Yup - get your upper body further off.

Not bad for the first time.

try putting the middle of your visor, as close as you can, to the right or left side (depending on rt or lt turn) of the wind screen. that kinda forces you to get off the bike.

Looks good. Body position is over-rated. Do what makes you feel comfy(and safe) while getting around the track the quickest.

i'm trying to learn here as well...shouldn't the right arm be straighter. i guess your moved your upper body more it would straighten up.

Looks good. Body position is over-rated. Do what makes you feel comfy(and safe) while getting around the track the quickest.

I disagree
Body position is pretty much the most important factor when it comes to limitig speed, next to mental toughness (or balls) to go in deeper in a corner.

Here is a list
If your body is not alligned, hung off enough....
1-You are not very stable
2-Your bike has more weight up top
3-Bike needs more lean angle to go thru the same turn
4-More lean angle means less traction
5-More lean angle means cant get on the gas as early as a straigher bike
6-Less traction means, higher possibility for crashing
7-The more the lean angle, that much the bike slows down in the turn

So basically what you want to do is to use the least amount of lean, with the highest possible corner speed. Racer's achive that by combining Full lean angle with Full body lean.
Here is an example.

Lets say you need 20" lean for a given corner at 50mph. You need 15" for the same corner at 50mph, if your body is off the bike. Or you can still do 20" lean and hang your body and go thru the corner at 55mph at 20"angle. ( Numbers here are totaly made up for example purpose)

Rob, you are doing ok with the body, what you should do next is to alling your chin to your shoulder and press down. Next step is to alling your chin to your inside wrist with loose arms. When you alling chin and wrist you will see that you need to bend down and in to do that, which will give you optiumum stability and loseness on the bars. :punk

It's not that I disagree with you in principle because I actually agree with you completely. It's just that most people get hung up on this too much. I completely believe in only as much lean angle as needed, more traction and more speed. I hang off like a damn, monkey in some corners but it's not for everyone. I just think that this is too much for beginning track riders to focus on and this guy looks to have pretty decent form.

In the end, it comes down to doing what you feel comfy doing and if that happens to be the fastest way for you around the track, so be it.


Me :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/96SNAKE/MMS_9541.jpg

I hear lots of people saying that you need to get your head more right or left. If that's the case the guy in this photo has terrible body position. He almost allways keeps his head in the center. Your body position is as bad as his!
20298
Snake05k5 is correct.
Looks good. Body position is over-rated. Do what makes you feel comfy(and safe) while getting around the track the quickest.

I hear lots of people saying that you need to get your head more right or left. If that's the case the guy in this photo has terrible body position. He almost allways keeps his head in the center. Your body position is as bad as his!
20298
Snake05k5 is correct.

Nice form snake05k5, nice pic :)

Strafer which rider are you talking about? If its duhamel, he is not even in the corner yet and even after he is, he usually rides straight up and centered upper body. He has been riding like that for 20 years now i think, it works for him. Ben spies is not even leaned over yet, he is still busy with trail braking, mat mladin is mid corner, leaned over his shoulder, chin and wrist are all alligned in the same plane, just like i said. Now where do you see the centric riding style in this photo?

I am refering to the fact that Mladin keeps his head centered over the windscreen. Ben on the other hand nornally gets his head and body off to the side more. Neither way is incorrect. I can allways pick out Collin edwards in a race because of his body positioning. It's different than any other rider. I would have a hard time telling him he's doing it wrong. It's all about what's fastest for you. I remember the first time I saw KR slidding around a corner on his knee. That can't be right!

sport rider mag. has a section on this. October issue, Mladin, Duhamel,Spies gives some advice on body position,oh yeah since i started the thread i just wanted to say. This was my first track day:punk :punk

I am refering to the fact that Mladin keeps his head centered over the windscreen. Ben on the other hand nornally gets his head and body off to the side more. Neither way is incorrect. I can allways pick out Collin edwards in a race because of his body positioning. It's different than any other rider. I would have a hard time telling him he's doing it wrong. It's all about what's fastest for you. I remember the first time I saw KR slidding around a corner on his knee. That can't be right!

Yeah everyone's different...ever check out Mick Doohan's style?! :yumyum

Looks good. As was said before, get your butt off more, kinda like this pic.:cheers

OK, really depends on the corner on how much you should lean. For my liking, snake05k5 is leaning off too much. This is because he is not near full lean and by tucking in abit more, it'd be likely that he'd have less drag and able to carry more speed through the corner. However this would only be true for a very fast corner. Also leaning off too much can mean that it takes longer for the bike to get upright and have the rider weight over the rear wheel.

I tend to stick my knee out too much in an effort to 'get the knee down'. The attached photo shows me and where I think the optimum body position would be. I'd like to get my head just inside the axis of the bike.

You're right. It's not a very fast corner but a strange double apex. That was my first track day with the bike(and 2nd time on it at all) and coming from a 600RR, I wanted to make sure the bike was as upright as possible through there. That corner is notorious for biting powerful bikes and I was being extra cautious.

Even so, I'm not that light at 220lbs so I like to make sure I keep my weight off the bike if I can.

This corner is more typical for me..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/96SNAKE/22SP1197.jpg

Yeah keeping the bike upright is a good way to ride. Eventually you'll get very comfortable with how you're riding and start to tweak aspects of body positioning. When you're comfortable, go out and just adjust one component (I tried to move my head to the inside of the windscreen for a whole day) and get a feel how it makes things feel.

Whatever you do, don't try and change mutiple things, as it's too much to think about and get feedback on.

Finally stacking sucks, so slowly build up speed.:)

Oh, the following is bad body position for corner exit. Maybe should have taken some of snake's advice.

lol.. I'm not a newcomer just new on a liter bike. I'm an old guy at 35 and a 600 was my weapon of choice for yrs.

Still, it's my style but I change it up depending on the corner. On very fast corners, I'm not off the bike nearly that much but the slower corners is where I'll subconciously get off more but on this bike, I've purposely been more aware of it to manage that power. I have a good feel for rear end traction this way. Helps to have a large rear to match. :)

I agree with what they say with upper body

But, I use the same foot position as you do, I put them on the edge of the peg so I can feel how much lean I have left.
But at a race track get you foot more up and towards the inside of the peg, otherwise you'll be dragging your toe slider as often as your knee, and you can lean further than you think.

But it's a nice style for the rain with the foot on the edge of the peg IMO.

:)

Looks good. Body position is over-rated. Do what makes you feel comfy(and safe) while getting around the track the quickest.


Yes I agree with Snake, I'm no expert either but I take it that as you get faster on the track you have to re adjust your position.

Yes I agree with Snake, I'm no expert either but I take it that as you get faster on the track you have to re adjust your position.

OTOH you might as well do it right from the beginning so you don't have to unlearn bad habits later... ;)

For me, the more I focus on body position, relaxation and smoothness, the faster I go. In that order, too. If I go into a turn not worrying about how fast I'm going and instead critique my body position in my head and make adjustments, I end up coming out of the corner at a much higher speed. :thumbup

I'm new to track days, This was my first day at the track(msrh). I think my heads all wrong, what do you guys/gals see? Im the one in front(of course) and I'm about to apex the corner, dont know if that matters but just letting you know


compare yourself here:
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h292/GoMoto/break-down/qx2p1v.jpg

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/9237/02sugoce02800cx8.jpg

Colin Edwards @ Sugo

Even watching the Moto GP I'm amazed how the small guys manage to hang off the bikes. Looking at some pics of my Track day, I tend to keep my body more upright, hanging off doe not make me comfortable. At my last track day one of the intructors wasn't even getting his knee down but was going around bends faster that people that were getting their knees down. So I agree with the comments above regarding what feels comfortable to the rider. I also think that rider height may have an influence, I'm 5'10" and hanging off the bike too much doesn't feel comfortable, maybe taller people have an easier time with hanging off the bike.

100% agree with snake. Judging people's body position, especially from a picture (a minute snapshot in time) is silly. Of course it's important - but people get carried away with it. There isn't any 'right' way of leaning, so long as you're getting enough weight on the inside of the turn to take it at the speed you wish to take it without losing traction. Your body position changes constantly, as well, depending on the turn, the part of the turn you're in, etc, etc, etc.

I personally made the mistake of asking this same question on this same forum a few years back. The input I received probably set me back a year, as I struggled to ride like "I'm supposed to". In the end, I came full circle, and realized that I was doing just fine to begin with. But I wasted alot of time learning this lesson.

The basics are simple... the more weight you get off the bike towards the inside of the turn, the more upright you can keep the bike at a given speed. Or... the more weight you can get off the bike towards the inside of the turn, the faster you can go for a given lean angle. But HOW you get that weight off (body position) various greatly betwee riders of equal ability.

Looks good. Body position is over-rated. Do what makes you feel comfy(and safe) while getting around the track the quickest.


+ 1 !!!

I pass so many dudes hanging off like monkeys, like they're chained to a post...and get passed similarly by some fast ass dudes that don't hang off much at all.

Here's a pic of me @ Buttonwillow - I kept thinking my body positioning sucked...because I wasn't hanging way off and low like some motor-monkey. I worked 1:1 with Doug Chandler for two days, and he told me I looked fine.

(I'm a tall dude - the only reason my leg/knee isn't in an even better, more aligned position with my head is because I have my rearsets so low. I was wasting my ti toe slider here and am attempting to reposition my foot!)

+ 1 !!!

I pass so many dudes hanging off like monkeys, like they're chained to a post...and get passed similarly by some fast ass dudes that don't hang off much at all.

Here's a pic of me @ Buttonwillow - I kept thinking my body positioning sucked...because I wasn't hanging way off and low like some motor-monkey. I worked 1:1 with Doug Chandler for two days, and he told me I looked fine.

(I'm a tall dude - the only reason my leg/knee isn't in an even better, more aligned position with my head is because I have my rearsets so low. I was wasting my ti toe slider here and am attempting to reposition my foot!)


HOLY SHIT son..... motoJB.... you're my hero :punk :cheers

That's freakin awesome :punk :punk :punk

Anyways I'm no riding expert, but I think the original poster could do a little bit more mirror kissing. When I watch motogp riders their heads are turned really far looking through the turn. IMO your head could hang lower.... when I do that I noticed I can turn in tighter.

HOLY SHIT son..... motoJB.... you're my hero :punk :cheers

That's freakin awesome :punk :punk :punk

Anyways I'm no riding expert, but I think the original poster could do a little bit more mirror kissing. When I watch motogp riders their heads are turned really far looking through the turn. IMO your head could hang lower.... when I do that I noticed I can turn in tighter.


LOL dude, your lame attempt at insult is laughable. I was just sharing MY experience with the original poster. I'm "sorry" that something in my post bothered you.

Once again, a riding expert (Doug Chandler) told me that my form looked fine. Not that I couldn't certainly still improve, but I'll take the word of a 3 time AMA SBK Champ over yours anyday.

So you're basing your knowledge on watching MotoGP riders on TV? :lol How many times did you go to the track last year? Do any classes or riding schools? Pay for any instruction? Work with some of the best club racers in your area? Until you do, perhaps it is you that should take your "Pazzo shorty levers, fender eliminator, and progrip carbon fiber tank protector" and shut it.

This happens to be only one shot at the track - and it also happens to be a 120-130mph turn - Riverside @ Buttonwillow. The form in a big, fast, sweeping 120-130mph turn is not necessarily quite the same as a 60-80mph tighter turn. Also - how is my head not looking through the turn?? Comical input you have, really.

Lastly - I'm not your son. I'm 12 years your senior. :flipoff

May wish to re-examine this:

LOL dude, your lame attempt at insult is laughable. I was just sharing MY experience with the original poster. I'm "sorry" that something in my post bothered you.

Once again, a riding expert (Doug Chandler) told me that my form looked fine. Not that I couldn't certainly still improve, but I'll take the word of a 3 time AMA SBK Champ over yours anyday.

So you're basing your knowledge on watching MotoGP riders on TV? :lol How many times did you go to the track last year? Do any classes or riding schools? Pay for any instruction? Work with some of the best club racers in your area? Until you do, perhaps it is you that should take your "Pazzo shorty levers, fender eliminator, and progrip carbon fiber tank protector" and shut it.

This happens to be only one shot at the track - and it also happens to be a 120-130mph turn - Riverside @ Buttonwillow. The form in a big, fast, sweeping 120-130mph turn is not necessarily quite the same as a 60-80mph tighter turn. Also - how is my head not looking through the turn?? Comical input you have, really.

Lastly - I'm not your son. I'm 12 years your senior. :flipoff

May wish to re-examine this:

Man you took this so wrong I'm in disbelief.....................

I was 100% sincerely complimenting you because I was impressed with your picture of you scraping peg w/ sparks flying... not just that but also by your good form.

This is some seriously messed up shit. If you look back at my posts I don't think I've been a prick to anybody. I can't believe me complimenting you somehow made you think I was insulting you. :wtf

I won't hold grudges because I know you misinterpreted me somehow, but just know that nothing I said in my post was in any way to insult you. The "advice" I inputted was directed towards the ORIGINAL POSTER.... Racer Rob..... NOT YOU.

Man you took this so wrong I'm in disbelief.....................

I was 100% sincerely complimenting you because I was impressed with your picture of you scraping peg w/ sparks flying... not just that but also by your good form.

This is some seriously messed up shit. If you look back at my posts I don't think I've been a prick to anybody. I can't believe me complimenting you somehow made you think I was insulting you. :wtf

I won't hold grudges because I know you misinterpreted me somehow, but just know that nothing I said in my post was in any way to insult you. The "advice" I inputted was directed towards the ORIGINAL POSTER.... Racer Rob..... NOT YOU.

Damn...

Well, yeah, I guess you're right. Sorry dude. I totally stand corrected. Foot in mouth. Please accept my apology for that. (and sorry to the original poster and the rest of you as well)

This statement sure seemed suspect:
"HOLY SHIT son..... motoJB.... you're my hero"

I by no means consider myself an expert, and I certainly don't consider myself a hero - 'cept to my daughter perhaps. ;) (therein lies the real problem I guess)

I had some other dude actually bash me (seemingly some what similarly) in another post on another site, so I jumped to conclusions when I saw your post.

Anyhow, again, my sincere apologies. :sad

Damn...

Well, yeah, I guess you're right. Sorry dude. I totally stand corrected. Foot in mouth. Please accept my apology for that. (and sorry to the original poster and the rest of you as well)

This statement sure seemed suspect:
"HOLY SHIT son..... motoJB.... you're my hero"

I by no means consider myself an expert, and I certainly don't consider myself a hero - 'cept to my daughter perhaps. ;) (therein lies the real problem I guess)

I had some other dude actually bash me (seemingly some what similarly) in another post on another site, so I jumped to conclusions when I saw your post.

Anyhow, again, my sincere apologies. :sad

It's cool, I have a tendency to make people misinterpret what I mean even in person so I always get people pissed off at me and I don't have a clue why. :lol

I guess it's the way I put things..... but yea that picture seriously made my jaw drop. :punk

It's cool, I have a tendency to make people misinterpret what I mean even in person so I always get people pissed off at me and I don't have a clue why. :lol

I guess it's the way I put things..... but yea that picture seriously made my jaw drop. :punk


Hmmm...so were you baiting me, huh??? :yumyum :scratch Not cool...Ya' bastid. :nono :flipoff :D I'll remember that about you.

Um, thanks...I think! :shifty

man some of you are WAY Off like monkey's and that is NOT smart, and some of you are off with your lower body good and think your correct - but your head/chest is all wrong.

the first set of statements of do what is comfortable first is the first thing you need to do. watch those infront of you as you get quicker, look at pics of yourself, and try to slowly work into it is the correct way.

my avatar isn't the pic. perfect example, but i feel i've got pretty good positioning.

I'm new to track days, This was my first day at the track(msrh). I think my heads all wrong, what do you guys/gals see? Im the one in front(of course) and I'm about to apex the corner, dont know if that matters but just letting you know
are you riding the stock tires?

Damn motojb, I too am impressed!!!!!! That's an awesome pic.

glimpsta is right, your using too much shoulder IMHO.

more IMHO, sitting up like that doesnt allow you to weight the front end of the bike properly, and having your shoulder that far out doesnt give you much leeway of movement when your rear goes. IMHO

but then you are still trailing into the apex so maybe you will change as you reach your accel;eration point???

here ya go have a crack at me....:cheers

this ones at eastern creek raceway on a borrowed bike...

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e303/theblobbery/easterncreekcopy.jpg

Man you took this so wrong I'm in disbelief.....................
know that nothing I said in my post was in any way to insult you.
as an innocent bystander, i have to agree with you that "Will Goes Boing" misread you!

i've been told its more important to get the shoulders off than the ass... more weight up in your shoulders...

opinions always welcome...

+ 1 !!!

I pass so many dudes hanging off like monkeys, like they're chained to a post...and get passed similarly by some fast ass dudes that don't hang off much at all.

Here's a pic of me @ Buttonwillow - I kept thinking my body positioning sucked...because I wasn't hanging way off and low like some motor-monkey. I worked 1:1 with Doug Chandler for two days, and he told me I looked fine.

(I'm a tall dude - the only reason my leg/knee isn't in an even better, more aligned position with my head is because I have my rearsets so low. I was wasting my ti toe slider here and am attempting to reposition my foot!)

I respect your body position as you're a much better rider than I but my question to all of you is what then is wrong with Ben Spies' position? He's the one rider that to me his riding position looks perfect. Not only that but he's fast too. According to that magazine cut out Spies shouldn't be fast at all. I'm confused, please advise.

Grav.

So how this body positioning??? Anyone want to critique it...

So how this body positioning??? Anyone want to critique it...I like the form and body position of the guy behind you!
:lol You're looking good too. I like how your upper body is off the bike as much as the rest.:thumbup

The last two pictures in that article are so counter intitive to what I have been told :scratch.

I tend to ride "Duhamel" style.... slightly (and even sometimes severely)crossed up. It seems to work for me. My lower body is out, and my upper body is more upright and leaned out, rather than laying down (which by that article might not be the best thing anyway). Sometimes though depending on the corner it ends up over the tank.

Examples..
First one, laying down more... what is traditionally considered "good" Fast sweeping off camber corner.


51671

Second one, crossed up... considered not so good. Slow tight decreasing radius corner.

51672

How you feeling bro?

Bah, Ive seen better days. Shoulder is obviouslysore. hand is sore too (mainly cause I have to use it even though it is sprained) but other than that not bad really.

I dont think it is off of it, just barely touching. But sometimes it does come off. I use the rear brake on corner entry sometimes, but only when trying to go VERY deep into corners. I grew up on dirt so the ack end sliding doesnt bother me. I also try to stay familiar with it for emergencies. That day I clipped a cone and got some headshake coming out of the chicane at Tally. Not too bad so I kept railing towards T-1. Got there and had NO FRONT BRAKE. The headshake had knocked the pads back. I was able to drag the rear (it slid all over the place) while downshifting to scrub speed (thank god for slipper clutch) and pump the front back up to work. Ran wide, but didnt run off.

I dont turn any different left from right. Neither bothers me.

In all my pics youll see myoutside foot turned out like that though. I hook my heel and calf into the outside of the bike, while pressing my knee inot the tank for grip and leverage.

I am very sporatic on my body position. I feel more comfortable with balance on lefts, but since all norther tracks are 90% rights I now carry more corner speed and body position isn't to bad on rights.

As most say the biggest key on body position is to get your body off and lower on the bike, but only to a point to where you are still relaxed on the upperbody and most importantly on the bars. For me in racing this is my hardest chore, as I my mind goes into race mode and I tense up especially in short corners and switch backs.

I only been to a track once and i was fast. Someone came to me and said man i cant keep up with you on the 'S' sections whats your secret. the secret is simple hang of less on the 'S' sections coz that way its giving you more leverage on the bike and less distance to travel from one site to the other. A pic cant tell you much unless you know the corner and the one before and after.
What i am saying is to have a good technic. then the body position should be different all of the time dipenting on where you are on the corner, which corner and what corner is following.

People that cant kiss there mirrors are those ones which there ass is off too much and they cant bend there body to do it. Initial poster i belive is like that.
My ass before and after.

Man you took this so wrong I'm in disbelief.....................

I was 100% sincerely complimenting you because I was impressed with your picture of you scraping peg w/ sparks flying... not just that but also by your good form.

This is some seriously messed up shit. If you look back at my posts I don't think I've been a prick to anybody. I can't believe me complimenting you somehow made you think I was insulting you. :wtf

I won't hold grudges because I know you misinterpreted me somehow, but just know that nothing I said in my post was in any way to insult you. The "advice" I inputted was directed towards the ORIGINAL POSTER.... Racer Rob..... NOT YOU.
+1 Will....I th:nonoink a chill pill is in order

People that cant kiss there mirrors are those ones which there ass is off too much and they cant bend there body to do it. Initial poster i belive is like that.
My ass before and after.

the first pic looks kind of like my body positioning....yea, i definitly need to work on that... i would like to look like the seond pic, i would also like to take Laguba Seca to work :lol

I'm a squidly noob so critique and flame on!
Since everyone says ya cant tell much from a pic here is a crapy low res vid from this summer for you to enjoy.

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z255/michaelshanehill/?action=view&current=nicesmooth.flv

I'm a squidly noob so critique and flame on!
Since everyone says ya cant tell much from a pic here is a crapy low res vid from this summer for you to enjoy.

http://s194.photobucket.com/albums/z255/michaelshanehill/?action=view&current=nicesmooth.flv

you have a long way.
i have learned how to ride on the streets coz track was not an option.
Go to the track if you realy want to know how to ride. A school is also a very good idea.

Been looking into going to VIR for the superbike school but I want some seat time before I go and spend all that money. So far I've just been watching twist of the wrist 1 and reading twist of the wrist 2 over and over, watching superbike races, and of course reading all the great info on the web that is so vague and misleading it hurts instead of helps most of the time.

judging from this pic, i'm willing to bet you drag your feet on occassion. try putting the balls of your feet on the pegs when prepping for corner entry. that might allow you to hang off the bike a bit more. it helps me control the bike better in the turn, and if i feel the back end squirm i can push down on either peg to gently tilt the bike back into traction.

judging from this pic, i'm willing to bet you drag your feet on occassion. try putting the balls of your feet on the pegs when prepping for corner entry. that might allow you to hang off the bike a bit more. it helps me control the bike better in the turn, and if i feel the back end squirm i can push down on either peg to gently tilt the bike back into traction.It would help to know who you're talking to, bro.

Another pic of good BP
:cheers

*disclaimer* My BP SUCKS half the time.......

But Cestode, the way I understand textbook form, those guys chests should be lower as well.

*disclaimer* My BP SUCKS half the time.......

But Cestode, the way I understand textbook form, those guys chests should be lower as well.

Well Ray (119) has the old style(Edwards, Doohan, Duhamel) like you. He took the #1 plate this year. The other is Scott Jensen, top privateer in AMA S/ST and S/B.

Remember good BP is great to have but it's also a counteractive theory. Code say's one thing. Pridmore say's another and Spencer even another. If you look at the difference between Spies and Haner they're almost oppisite yet they both worked with Freddie Spencer alot.

I say having the basics down and being relaxed is better than trying to follow a certain "style" of BP.

BTW your's isn't bad at all. You look relaxed and in control.

Another shot of Scooter (Road America)

Yeah, Code says spies style is too low...... :scratch

Mine has improved, and thus so has my times, I WAS crossed up REAL bad, but it has gotten alot better.

For what it's worth, this is my brother behind me in the canyon, he dosen't hang off a lot, head is a little upright but it all work's for him, he's one fast dude in the canyon.

^^ i have noticed that this still works good (they can go very fast) on canyons but it uses a lot of lean angle which isnt that good for the road.

That old SRAD is soooooo close to decking out :eek....... he must be dragging stator covers and clutch covers and shit

Crazy folk
:wacko

I realize the pic is turned, but it is still close to decking out....... I had one, that thing would drag shit SOoooooooooooooooooo easy

Its a 2000 ZX7R, 1/2 inch up in the rear, tuned, 119 RHP, very underrated bike.

Any tips for me? It seems like the part I have the most trouble with is moving my body lower. i.e., my uppers are off to the side, but my head is still to high.

I'm new to track days, This was my first day at the track(msrh). I think my heads all wrong, what do you guys/gals see? Im the one in front(of course) and I'm about to apex the corner, dont know if that matters but just letting you know


GREAT PIC! YOUR FORM EXPRESSES WHAT YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. I DONT THINK THERE IS A RIGHT OR WRONG WAY, ITS IF YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE IMO.

ALTHOUGH THE LOWER YOU PUT YOUR HEAD THE LOWER CENTER OF GRAVITY YOU'LL HAVE. I TEND TO KEEP MY HEAD HIGHER THAN MOST. YOUR STYLE IS ALL YOUR OWN , SO JUST FIND YOURS AND DO WHATS COMFORTABLE AS LONG AS IT DOESNT HINDER YOUR RIDING!

Any tips for me? It seems like the part I have the most trouble with is moving my body lower. i.e., my uppers are off to the side, but my head is still to high.


Looks pretty good to me. looks alot like Colin Edwards, and he seems to do alright with it :cool

GREAT PIC! YOUR FORM EXPRESSES WHAT YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH. I DONT THINK THERE IS A RIGHT OR WRONG WAY, ITS IF YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE IMO.

ALTHOUGH THE LOWER YOU PUT YOUR HEAD THE LOWER CENTER OF GRAVITY YOU'LL HAVE. I TEND TO KEEP MY HEAD HIGHER THAN MOST. YOUR STYLE IS ALL YOUR OWN , SO JUST FIND YOURS AND DO WHATS COMFORTABLE AS LONG AS IT DOESNT HINDER YOUR RIDING!

I agree with you on this..... everbody has their own style. IMO as long as your upper body is off to the side.... whatever else you do after that is just personal preference.

I tend to have my elbow touching my thigh/knee and that gives it a rather "unique" look.... a lot of my riding buddies thinks its cool and tries to imitate it just to find it extremely awkward.

IMO your body position should change relative to how you want your bike to act/react.

I dont think there is a so called correct position because it really depends on what turn your in and what happend before you came in that turn. Look at videos form Schwantz and Rainey those guys to your standards have messed up body positions but yet they won championships. I really think the key is knowing the art of tucking in you knee when your body is leaned to go faster. Why I say that? its because when your knee is draggin ppl tend to freeze the throttle at that point but just recently I didnt and tucked in my knee and went 10 MPH more than I usually go while still draggin knee.

Bringing rainey and schwantz and that whole era of riders into a discussion about Body position on modern sportbikes really is a moot point IMO. The bikes were WAY different, technology was way different, and of course, riding science was different.

It is like comparing todays NFL players to those past, or baseball players. The sport is essentially an entirely different sport.

Bringing rainey and schwantz and that whole era of riders into a discussion about Body position on modern sportbikes really is a moot point IMO. The bikes were WAY different, technology was way different, and of course, riding science was different.

It is like comparing todays NFL players to those past, or baseball players. The sport is essentially an entirely different sport.




I disagree. The technology is advanced but the style of leaning your body with the bike is the same. Like I said there is no right or wrong body position because tracks are diffrent and you adjust your style of riding for that track and your bike settings. There is a alot of riders with different riding positions but at the end what really counts is how far your are willing to take it and how bad your really want it.

Has the Baseball bat and ball changed that much? Ever watched the mechanics of a hitters swing from the 30's? How does that compare to the mechanics of a batters swing from today?

That is my point. Riding science has changed.

Those guys came off of dirt, where pushing the bike under you is what worked.

Racers, please critique my body position as well. Note: the rear tire was a horrible Metzler M3 (but good for street) so the front and rear did not match (never again). Also, the bike is now in track trim only with Dragon SC2, glass bodywork & single can. Oh, and I've ditched the old leathers, so save the nasty remarks please :D

Looks pretty decent to me....... you look to be a TALL mofo. From the angle of the photo, it looks like you might be crossed up some, but if it is working for you run with it.

I'm new to track days, This was my first day at the track(msrh). I think my heads all wrong, what do you guys/gals see? Im the one in front(of course) and I'm about to apex the corner, dont know if that matters but just letting you know

I too had a similar riding position to yours. I was fast going into corners, but not so much coming out. I was already using most of the track, but not as smoothly as I wanted to. The tips that were given to me could probably be useful to you. Use what info you wish. I can't really see your inside foot, but it appears to be tucked in. If you place your heels against the swingarm, and point your toes slightly outward. You will be able to pivot, and slide your butt to the inside with just half a cheek on the seat. This will help you get that knee out there more aggressively, while keeping your shoulders squared with the bike and the turn. While doing this. Your head should be low, and forward. Looking deep into the exit of the corner. When I tried this. The amount of shit I had to do to set up was a little overwhelming. However, the first time I did it right. I was astonished at the field of vision I had for that corner. It was like the whole damn corner just opened up, and I could see everything. I started pulling away from the instructor, and before I knew it, he was a faint image in the background. It took me a few sessions before I got comfortable with these techniques, but I think it was worth it. I scraped my pucks for the first time, and have ever since. Also pointing your toes out past the tip of your pegs will allow you to feel the ground before you scrape your pegs, and possibly prevent a low side. Just my two cent. Don't take it as gospel. Just use the info you feel comfortable with, cause I'm no expert.:cheers

What mad hatter says is very true, and some of what he siad is often overlooked. What your leg are doing is just as important as what your body and head are doing.

My left hand corner pic, my outside foot is a bit exaggerated, but that is what he is talking about, but with the inside foot as well. I hook my outside leg so hard that I actually bend my heel guard into my swingarm sometimes. I turn the foot out, hook my heel, calf and knee into the outside of the bike. This gives me some leverage so that I can be loose on the bars. Almost like I am trying to pull myself back on the seat with my knee into the tank. It will wear out your inner thighs using your legs and body like this at first, but it frees up your hands on the bars. This allows the bike to cary a steady line, as well as allows slight upper body adjustments that you dont want to make by pulling on the bars.

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51671&d=1182395048
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=51618&stc=1&d=1182374396

Dont know how to say this but i will give it a try.
First you cant really say that there is a perfect body position coz with what it seems to be perfect in words you may not fill comfortable with it and all can go wrong.
I got these pics from this thread. Have a look at the body positions. These are two very different styles. I used to ride like the first guy now I am working on it to ride like the second.
Have a look at the feet on the pegs. Look at the second pic the inside is duck in and the outside, the peg is against the hill. (exaclly opossite the first pic)
Also have a look at the knee. In the first pic the knee is almost touching the bike and in the second is just sticking out.
What I am saying here is.
Find all riding styles that are around.
Have a go with all of them. (not just once around a truck. but lets say for 3 months)
Find what is best for you.
Work on it.
Perfect it and Create your own style.
Have fun.

Believe it or not Tas, my inside foot is pretty tucked in that pic :lol. My Toe sliders were about worn out, and I was having to tuck it more than I normally do.

I am like Tas. I hook the heel part of my boot on the outside pet and put my toes on the very inside of the peg (almost where the peg mounts to the bracket) and I try to hook my inside heal on the heal guard as well.

I was having pain/discomfort on my right foot on the 1k last time out so I will need to play with that next time out.

I'm confused. I need a Tylenol.

Can someone explain quickly what "crossed-up" means... sorry for being a squid.

I think a big problem is that riders aren't pulling themselves forward enough and tend to have balancing issues.

CRossed up........ line up the spine of the rider crosses the centerline of the bike

This is Mick Doohan....... Duhammel is famous for it as well though

http://digilander.libero.it/tortugamotoclub/strano/curvare-doohan.jpg

Traditionally "correct" body position looks more like this (wanted a Tony Elias pic, but couldnt find one from behind)

Nicky hayden, his spine parallels the centerline of the bike

http://www.bikesportnews.com/artimg/212-art.jpg

CRossed up........ line up the spine of the rider crosses the centerline of the bike


Traditionally "correct" body position looks more like this (wanted a Tony Elias pic, but couldnt find one from behind)

[/img]

Only few racers still use this technic.(crossed up) in motoGP only tony elias.
On the other hand thou on the street a lot of people use this. the reson for this is that its easiest to put your knee down, you have better visibility of the road and it is more natural to new riders. Because they went fast with this technic in a very short time they refuse to chainge it. (I was one of them)

Ok rip away I want to hear how I am doing on the new race bike.

OK, really depends on the corner on how much you should lean. For my liking, snake05k5 is leaning off too much. This is because he is not near full lean and by tucking in abit more, it'd be likely that he'd have less drag and able to carry more speed through the corner. However this would only be true for a very fast corner. Also leaning off too much can mean that it takes longer for the bike to get upright and have the rider weight over the rear wheel.

I tend to stick my knee out too much in an effort to 'get the knee down'. The attached photo shows me and where I think the optimum body position would be. I'd like to get my head just inside the axis of the bike.

Damn its A symmetrical . . . . . . . :lol

elvis your crossed up bad but again if it works for you gop with it. i am still woprking on lining my body up with the bike. it takes time to break bad habits

I am also trying to fix what I think is a twisted form. I am fast but off by like 4 seconds a lap for the top 3 spots. I would think fixing this would allow me to carry more corner speed and thus fix my times.

Guys, I'm back. I've been trying to get my head lower, but honestly, I dont know if I would be comfortable going down any more than this.

That doesnt look bad at all man. Better than mine on average. :cheers.

that looks pretty good IMO.

Where is that, Pocono?

its a little hard to see exactly what is going on there, and i think you have a shoe lace undone...:biggrin

you look a little stiff in the shoulders to me, if i was to suggest anything it would be to loosen up around the mid section and allow the bike to stand up, using you shoulders as the counter balance you will be able to achieve a balanced and safer approach to fast corner exits...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2142/2341755020_9c5e35e7fd_b.jpg

that looks pretty good IMO.

Where is that, Pocono?

Yeah, Pocono. Every time I go, it seems to get bumpier :scratch

Or you get faster, and notice it more........... :dunno.

AS you get faster, suspension changes may be needed

its a little hard to see exactly what is going on there, and i think you have a shoe lace undone...:biggrin

Ha. Yeah, I didn't have my lowers mounted, so my tank vent was dragging on the ground


you look a little stiff in the shoulders to me, if i was to suggest anything it would be to loosen up around the mid section and allow the bike to stand up, using you shoulders as the counter balance you will be able to achieve a balanced and safer approach to fast corner exits...


The thing is, my arms aren't that long. In that position, my abs and lower back are tensed up because I'm supporting my uppers with it. Should I be using my outer arm on the tank to get additional support?

Also, on exit, I hold that body position you see now, and raise the bike to straight. I'm still working on keeping my weight on the outside peg while doing that though, but because there's a lot going on, I occassionally find myself transfering the weight from outside to inside, just because so much of my body is off to the inside. Its something I'm gonna keep working on though.

Or you get faster, and notice it more........... :dunno.

AS you get faster, suspension changes may be needed

Yeah, my brother was explaining that to me(he's about 3-5 seconds faster than me at that track). He said the little bumps get very big the faster you hit them.

I found for me personally that sliding back off the tank a bit, so that your knees fit in the pocket better, and using a tank grip like a stomp grip helped ALOT with body position as well. It gave a bit of added support which it seems you are asking about. I use my outside calf and knee to hold on to the bike. With the G-forces and the grips, I essentially....... if it were possible, could lift my inside foot off the peg, and let go of the bars with my hands mid corner, holding on withjust the outside leg, back and stomach muscles.

Yeah, my brother was explaining that to me(he's about 3-5 seconds faster than me at that track). He said the little bumps get very big the faster you hit them.


It is that the suspension has to react faster to them.... so proper tuning is required.

You hit a bump that rises 6" over a two foot distance at 10mph, the suspension goes up slow, then back out slow. You hit it at 100mph, it goes up ALOT faster, and has to rebound faster. I use the huge difference in speed to illustrate it, but it is no different when the difference is only a few mph. The damping has to change. :cheers

I found for me personally that sliding back off the tank a bit, so that your knees fit in the pocket better, and using a tank grip like a stomp grip helped ALOT with body position as well. It gave a bit of added support which it seems you are asking about. I use my outside calf and knee to hold on to the bike. With the G-forces and the grips, I essentially....... if it were possible, could lift my inside foot off the peg, and let go of the bars with my hands mid corner, holding on withjust the outside leg, back and stomach muscles.
I could not move back on the seat as many were suggesting the reason was that i could not hold on as i was braking. last month i did the CSS level 3 and 4 and the solution was very simple. They told me to put my insite knee against the tank when i was braking and i did and it work. I could not figure this out before coz most of racesers have there knee out very early and when braking so i was doing the same.

This was at Pocono also a few months back, on the FUSA course, which is much much better then either of the two other courses there.

I feel ok using this BP, i just have a problem with my inside leg. I feel like i weight the inside peg too much, even after the apex. Also, my knee always touches down too early. I think that it is because i am sitting too far forward and therefore my knee goes forward and down instead of out. I realize that this picture doesnt show that, but it is a problem.

You can see post #81 for my last year's BP picture. This year I'm getting close to touching my elbow down in a couple of places at Calabogie, Ontario so I guess I'm getting more comfortable on the bike. Here's my latest from a few days ago. Comments are welcome (yes I know my leathers are a bit tight - stop looking at my ass you homo - LOL)

jesus man how do you squeeze into those leathers????? :lol


J/K, great looking BP though, i bet if you let that elbow out some you could be realllll close to touching it down.:thumbup

well my donation to body positioning then haha

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/gimpsta/A-210.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/gimpsta/B-061.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/gimpsta/C-375.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/gimpsta/C-027.jpg

Hello,
I am also trying to improve my body position during trackdays so feel free to critique my photo. I am in the front here. Some mates have told me that I stick out too much and my hands seem to hold handlebars too firmly. I am also not sure how much space I should leave between me and the tank. I usually move back so that there is space of about fist size :dunno

I believe that it is hard to judge from one photo. This is quite slow 2nd gear corner just before start-finish.

The last two pictures in that article are so counter intitive to what I have been told :scratch.

I tend to ride "Duhamel" style.... slightly (and even sometimes severely)crossed up. It seems to work for me. My lower body is out, and my upper body is more upright and leaned out, rather than laying down (which by that article might not be the best thing anyway). Sometimes though depending on the corner it ends up over the tank.

Examples..
First one, laying down more... what is traditionally considered "good" Fast sweeping off camber corner.


51671

Second one, crossed up... considered not so good. Slow tight decreasing radius corner.

51672

It looks like you are obviously faster then I will ever be but I did make one observation. I have always heard the keeping your shoulders more "square", like dropping either the left or right shoulder rather then 'scrunching' it through a corner is more effective. What says you guys? :cheers

Wow, that is an old post :lol.

I have improved my bp A LOT since then.

Wow, that is an old post :lol.

I have improved my bp A LOT since then.

Yeah... REALLY old.. first post was in '07... got pix of your new improved BP???

T4 barber :punk

102171

I was told that you want your spine to be parallel with the centerline of the bike (your hips move over 6 inches, so do your shoulders). Your hips should rotate slightly around the tank. Your outside toe should be pointing away from your bike (caused by the hip rotation). Your shoulders should remain square, and your outside forarm should be against the tank.

The biggest things I see people doing is pushing thier hips way the hell out there trying to get the knee down. Or not moving their hips at all and just leaning into the turn.

What works for me is the hip rotation. After that, trying to keep my shoulders square and leading the turn with my chin. You're supposed to push the inside bar to turn the bike. I firmly believe that this starts at the shoulder. I push my shoulder and chin into the turns, but try to keep my shoulders perpendicular to the bike. My upper body moves as a whole. My shoulders lead and my hips move to keep by back in line.

This is what the instructors with SBTT told the group (I wasn't riding, but they let me do the "classes" in between sessions). When they spoke of body positioning, I got on the instructors bike and got into position while he held it up on the stand. He said my position was perfect. Been doing it that way ever since.

In Joe's pic above, the only thing I see missing from all this is the hip rotation. They guy in orange seems to have it. His outside toe is pointing out.

Your hips should rotate slightly around the tank.

In Joe's pic above, the only thing I see missing from all this is the hip rotation.

well, let me be the first to say it. REALY ??? ....this "hip rotation" thing your speak of contradicts almost everything I've read, studied, learned, watched & done.

Not trying to start a fight, just want the newbies that read your post to know that there may be some contention on this point. Cheers!

I'm with Devil on this one. Twisting the hips is bad because it makes it more difficult to get a knee out and crosses up the rider

rotating according to "ideal" BP is bad. It points your knee forward, not out, it twists your spin (its impossible to do and NOT twist your spine) which forces you to either cross up on the bike, or contort to stay in line. It also will cause you to stand on the inside peg, rather than hanging on to the outside of the bike (some call it weighting the outside, but in all reality as keith code says, it is nearly impossible to really "weight" the outside peg, you just want your weight to be attached more to the outside than the inside).

It works for some, I used to be bad about rotating around the tank rather than sliding sideways. And I was crossed up.


FWIW, my toe is pointed out. My heel actually is nearly on top of the heel guard.

Both of my feet mirror each other. I am hanging on pretty much with my outside knee, calf, heel, and foot. I could pick up my inside foot, and in theory, I could let go of the bars mid corner.

Also, It is worth notating, that on the 06 (depending on your size really, but I am 5'10") you can NOT hook your knee into the knee pocket properly if you are up on the tank, or if you rotate around it. It will poke away from the tank, and your thigh is only touching at the back of the tank. You have to slide back a couple inches, and slide straight for the knee pocket to work properly.

The second pic, my bp is in an in between stage. It is not as good as the one above, but not as bad as the first ones in this thread, and slightly better than the last one in this post. Notice I am still leading with my shoulder some, which means I am still crossed up some.

102208

102209

Also, It is worth notating, that on the 06 (depending on your size really, but I am 5'10") you can NOT hook your knee into the knee pocket properly if you are up on the tank, or if you rotate around it. It will poke away from the tank, and your thigh is only touching at the back of the tank. You have to slide back a couple inches, and slide straight for the knee pocket to work properly. This pic is back when I was still sometimes resorting back to my old habits, rotating around the tank, and crossing up. Notice the knee is not on the tank. calf and heel are all that is holding on here. It is the same weekend as the second pic above, but at this point my BP was inconsistant. If I got tired, or too focused in the race/session I would forget my BP (it was not set in to muscle memory yet at this point)
102210

MINEs
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/jr_steele/IMG_0924.jpg

Jason Disalvo
[IMG]http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/jr_steele/disalvo.jpg


Me again
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/jr_steele/img_3376.jpg

Jason DIsalvo

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa261/jr_steele/IMG_0806.jpg

I almsot posted a pic with you in it too :lol. But it is blurry so I used a different one :D

102211

:cheers I figured out what my prob is Joe. I dont have balls. I finally touched goin into the chicane at Tally.

:lol......... You were picking up for awhile, then just planed out :dunno.

What you probably need is to rather than concentrate on a track as a whole, work on ONE skill for an entire day that can help you. Like pick a day to practice braking. Dont worry about lap times, or drives off the corner. Just practice braking later and harder as the day goes on. Then sunday, incorporate that and work on laps again. Then the next weekend work on something else.

It seems to me you are just at a wall. Everyone hits one, just a matter of where you hit it at. I know you can do it, and your form and lines are good. You just need to gain confidence in you and your bike, and the only way to do that is to push something. But you dont want to push to many things at once, or you get sloppy....... and might fall down. And your bike is too pretty for that :lol

Oh, and the chicane at tally is one of the harder turns to drag in :blink. the bowl is the usual spot for people to drag first there :dunno

Oh, and the chicane at tally is one of the harder turns to drag in :blink. the bowl is the usual spot for people to drag first there :dunno


Well I got some diff tires, and that helped out alot. I cant believe I did it there either. I finally got a lap timer so I can actually tell my lap times, but your right I did hit a wall...and I think I improved my last TD at Jennings.

You know how STT novice class they do the "drills" for each session. That is basically what I do, but I will do it for half a day.

No matter how fast, or how slow a person is, it is always good to do drills to learn something new :punk.

good to hear you are picking up though :punk.

WE are going to Roebling end of the month.. you should show up :punk. Jimmy and Toejam will be there :dunno........ adn I know how you love you some lovin' from Toejam :lol

You know how STT novice class they do the "drills" for each session. That is basically what I do, but I will do it for half a day.

No matter how fast, or how slow a person is, it is always good to do drills to learn something new :punk.

good to hear you are picking up though :punk.

WE are going to Roebling end of the month.. you should show up :punk. Jimmy and Toejam will be there :dunno........ adn I know how you love you some lovin' from Toejam :lol

I think I will be working...I just had my appendix out so I need to start getting the money coming back in.

Toejam called me the other day...:lol Told me about his Sato rearset exploding..:lol

:thumbup JR!!! I told u, all u needed was some balls for real! +1 on the chicane dragging being hard Congrats Jr you will slowly get there! btw ive always liked ur BP

sir Matt :cheers

sup dude! glad ur finally progressing man, its always and excitement when u climb over that wall! Believe me ur gonna hit another one, just stay focused and keep pushing! :cheers

no doubt man....I just need more track time.

I think I will be working...I just had my appendix out so I need to start getting the money coming back in.

Toejam called me the other day...:lol Told me about his Sato rearset exploding..:lol

Gilles - and we told him to cut down on the mac & cheese - seen his title? :lol

I'm not talking about massive amounts of rotation. If you youtube on onboard of Rossi, you can see his hips rotating slightly. That's all I'm talking about. I find it odd though that it was an SBTT instructor that told me that, and Joe is with SBTT telling us it's wrong.

His reasoning for the rotation was ergonomics. Getting your feet right starts in the hips. Your inside foot should be flat against the bike and your outside toe pointing away from the bike. That rotation of the feet strarts with the rotation in the hips. He made a joke saying "Even Gumby can't get his outside foot rotated out like it needs to be when he's in leathers".

I guess the point is that there's no one right way to do it. I'm doing what I was taught, and it works for me. Joe rides crossed up, which by the book is horrible, but it works for him as well as one of the top racers in the world.

I dont cross up anymore :D


But My BP WAS just like Duhammel. Horrible by textbook, but it can work. The truth is though you tighten your margin of error, and you end up making concessions for it in other ways. Textbook BP allows the largest margin for error, mid corner corrections, and the ability to recover from sticky situations. Things that suffer some when your BP is crossed up or less than ideal


As to what that instructor taught you.... :dunno. I can turn my feet pointing straight out to the sides standing up. I dont see where leathers, or anything prevent a rotation in your calf and thigh. :dunno.

Imagine MC Hammer, doing the hammer dance :lol. His hips are still straight, but his knees and feet point out just fine. If he DID rotate his hips, one knee would end up pointing forward more than the other :dunno. Your legs can only go out so far.

It does work, but it is not "textbook", and the bottom line is everyone should strive to get CLOSE to textbook, then modifiy to suit their personal body type, flexibility levels, and comfort.

But with that said "textbook" body position does feel un natural to people at first. It feels slightly disjointed from the bike until you set it to muscle memory and you start to feel it work, and the differences it makes. Once you do it right... or close to it... for some time, it starts to feel more natural, and anything else will feel slightly odd then.

:wtf is going on in here? :shifty


I have to disagree on the chicane at Tally being a hard place to drag knee. I don't think i have ever been through there without dragging. :scratch


FTR, i MUST have gotten a bad rearset from Gilles; Mac n Cheese had nothing to do with it. :nono

I didnt say hard. I said not the easiest (for someone who is dragging for the FIRST time)

Ok, well I said "harder"..... which is inverse of "not easiest" 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other :lol

:wacko

I say Bowl is easiest, Carousel second, Decreasing right hander third, chicane 4th, and T1 5th (t1 is not hard really, just takes nuts to go fast enough to do it :D )

mac n cheese :drool

Have a go at me if you like.....

First is a fast lefthander..the others are from a hairpin....

I do love that replica :drool

BP looks pretty damn good.

One thing i did notice, and i only notice because i did it as well. Notice how you drag the top of your sliders? It isnt because you are reaching for the ground or anything, it is because you are rotating your hips forward in the direction of the turn and you are letting the inside half of your body lower below the edge of the seat. This puts your inside knee farther forward and forces it forwards and down, instead of out. It isnt a big deal or anything, your BP is still very good, but if you are like I was and stop leaning when your knee touches, then you will always touch down sooner doing it the way you are doing it = you will not lean as much. Like i said, i was doing it too. Focus on sliding sideways and staying off the tank with your nuts, as well as keeping your inside ass cheek from sinking down. If your rotate your inside foot some this will help too.

Like i said, it isnt really a problem, it just has the potential to limit lean angle if you are a head case.

I do love that replica :drool

BP looks pretty damn good.

One thing i did notice, and i only notice because i did it as well. Notice how you drag the top of your sliders? It isnt because you are reaching for the ground or anything, it is because you are rotating your hips forward in the direction of the turn and you are letting the inside half of your body lower below the edge of the seat. This puts your inside knee farther forward and forces it forwards and down, instead of out. It isnt a big deal or anything, your BP is still very good, but if you are like I was and stop leaning when your knee touches, then you will always touch down sooner doing it the way you are doing it = you will not lean as much. Like i said, i was doing it too. Focus on sliding sideways and staying off the tank with your nuts, as well as keeping your inside ass cheek from sinking down. If your rotate your inside foot some this will help too.

Like i said, it isnt really a problem, it just has the potential to limit lean angle if you are a head case.

Thanks for the advice...I'll keep that in mind since I also have been wondering about the thing about only using the upper part of the sliders...

Edit: The first pic is an off camber fast entry into a double apex fast right hander...

BTW, what a great thread, some useful info to be found.

(t1 is not hard really, just takes nuts to go fast enough to do it :D )

:shifty

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p216/subsea1975/track/DSC_0940.jpg