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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 09:13 AM Thread Starter
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very loud cam chain rattle noise

Prior to valves adjustment, bike was normal. Took a few shims out and completed the adjustment, put back the cams on correct timing, fired it up to hear very loud chain rattling from the head cover. I then took out the cam chain and inspected it with the cam shafts sprockets and guides. They were all looking fine without any wear. Put everything back and the loud rattle sound did not go off. Did resistance test on ignitions coils and they were all healthy. OEM Cam Tensioner was working well too. Would anyone please tell me where should I be looking at? Or did I miss something? Bike fired up quick. Loud chain rattle sound was louder than my de-cat scorpion end cans. Removed the air box and I could hear very clearly the sound is coming from the right side. Felt strong vibrations as the cam chain rattled loudly.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 01:08 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

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Originally Posted by iam1000k7 View Post
Prior to valves adjustment, bike was normal. Took a few shims out and completed the adjustment, put back the cams on correct timing, fired it up to hear very loud chain rattling from the head cover. I then took out the cam chain and inspected it with the cam shafts sprockets and guides. They were all looking fine without any wear. Put everything back and the loud rattle sound did not go off. Did resistance test on ignitions coils and they were all healthy. OEM Cam Tensioner was working well too. Would anyone please tell me where should I be looking at? Or did I miss something? Bike fired up quick. Loud chain rattle sound was louder than my de-cat scorpion end cans. Removed the air box and I could hear very clearly the sound is coming from the right side. Felt strong vibrations as the cam chain rattled loudly.
Usual method , reset tensioner(remove tensioner plug and spring and push plunger back) install, then put the tensioner spring back in. I do this with the valve cover off. As you reinstall cam tensioner spring you hear the tensioner plunger clicking as it tightens.
(if you have an oil line on back of tensioner, you might have to bleed it to remove trapped air, usually not though)

Then I slowly roll motor forward, this pulls tight on the front side of the cam chain positioning slack on backside where the tensioner is. Slowly turn forward gently until I can realign marks to verify cam timing.
Then I turn motor back and forth to make sure there is no excessive slack.

Sounds like your tensioner might be stuck.
I would pull valve cover back off and turn engine, verify timing and turn back and forth looking for excessive slack, if need be pull tensioner again, disassemble and look for any stiction problems.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

BEFORE... you release the CCT back in place to take up slack. Make sure that you have correct amount of cam chain teeth set between intake and exhaust cams which are set at correct timing marks. I don't know for k7-k8 bikes but mine has 14 teeth between cam timing marks for L3.

Don't forget to zip tie your cam chain to the intake/exhaust cams timing marks... to hold in place while your setting your cam chain teeth spacing.

THEN...slowly turn your crank via the 14mm nut (couple of mil only) to roll the cam chain slack from exhaust side to the intake side of the cams...SO..that when the CCT is released.. there will be absolutely NO slack in the cam chain ...MAKE SURE...you recount the teeth spacing between cams.

THEN...remove the zip ties.

THEN...rotate your crank a couple of times and bring to rest at the correct timing marks to make SURE..the correct teeth spacing remains between the cams.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 03:27 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

[QUOTE=Yo! Gibster;9131482]

THEN...slowly turn your crank via the 14mm nut (couple of mil only) to roll the cam chain slack from exhaust side to the intake side of the cams...SO..that when the CCT is released.. there will be absolutely NO slack in the cam chain ...MAKE SURE...you recount the teeth spacing between cams.

^^^^ I AM ASSUMING.. that you already have inserted your exhaust cam first and applied the cam chain over it...THEN... pulled tight on the cam chain from the intake side, then set in your intake cam under the cam chain..... all while making sure that the correct cam chain teeth spacing set between the cams is correct and then zip tied in place BEFORE.. you do the above.
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Guys, thank you for your helpful inputs. I followed everything and yet the noisy rattle kept coming. I am now putting my bet on Spun Rod bearings. I had to use much more force now to turn the Crank while I held up the cam chain without the cams. Previously it was so smooth and easy to turn. After reading up on Spun Rod bearings on Gixxer and seen YouTube, I am pointing my finger at the Crank now.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 06:50 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

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Originally Posted by iam1000k7 View Post
Guys, thank you for your helpful inputs. I followed everything and yet the noisy rattle kept coming. I am now putting my bet on Spun Rod bearings. I had to use much more force now to turn the Crank while I held up the cam chain without the cams. Previously it was so smooth and easy to turn. After reading up on Spun Rod bearings on Gixxer and seen YouTube, I am pointing my finger at the Crank now.
Just for future reference, a cam chain noise is usually only noisy at idle to low rpm's. If it's noisy all the way through the rev range, you got other problems.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Yes. The noise just kept coming through the rpm range. I shall drop the motor and get to the crank. Hopefully the crank is fine.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 09:28 AM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

I have no service manual to consult right now, but unless the design of the CCT is substantially different from the one on my K4, there should be an internal oil feed line, which applies fuel pressure to load the tensioner and tighten the chain. I wonder if the line could somehow have been blocked, preventing proper chain tightening.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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I have no service manual to consult right now, but unless the design of the CCT is substantially different from the one on my K4, there should be an internal oil feed line, which applies fuel pressure to load the tensioner and tighten the chain. I wonder if the line could somehow have been blocked, preventing proper chain tightening.
There is no oil line for K7 tensioner. There is a small oil jet in the next to the tensioner installation hole. There is plenty of engine oil out from the jet when I remove the tensioner. Cam chain is tight. But the noise just didn't go away. I am suspecting the crank or rod bearings. I also just found out cylinder 4 was not firing. I have been running on 3 even though the exhaust sounds normal. Oh man...
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 12:31 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

So, your motor was fine. You adjusted the valves, and somehow managed to have a spun bearing the first time you fired it up? I'm no professional but that doesn't seem likely. Exhaust leaks can create a tick, and it can get noisy. I'd investigate further before pulling your motor apart. You're gunna want to kick yourself in the balls if you get it apart and it's bottom end is completely fine, then you have to turn around and pay a couple hundred bucks for all the gaskets.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 03:51 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

I'd pull my side engine covers, and cams.
Pull any gear on the crank that meshes with another gear, pull clutch assy. Stator cover etc...
Pull plugs, remove tensioner. NOW turn the crank.
With no possible other drag on the crank assembly or cam chain, you'll know if that motor needs total disassembly.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

Also, drain your oil through a cloth first. If you spun a bearing you should find shiny metal shavings
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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You're damn right, Maniac. As much as I love putting my hands on the motor, it is hell tiring and took up much time and gasket monies to remove and open it up. When the motor was out the last time for Valve seal replacement and Valve Reaming, I replaced all the 4 exhaust gaskets. Now, that makes me wonder if the noise is coming from incorrect gasket installation. I shall check from the headers this time. When the motor was out previously with the cams off, I could easily turn the crank with a short wrench. I find myself using a breaker bar to turn the crank with the cams off now. Damn....
I will look from the header to draining the oil with a cloth now. A big Thank you guys for the pointers.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geesxara View Post
I'd pull my side engine covers, and cams.
Pull any gear on the crank that meshes with another gear, pull clutch assy. Stator cover etc...
Pull plugs, remove tensioner. NOW turn the crank.
With no possible other drag on the crank assembly or cam chain, you'll know if that motor needs total disassembly.
I am turning the crank now without removing the spark plugs. I am guessing there might be some air pressure making the crank tight as I rotate the motor. I shall remove all 4 plugs and try again.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 04:56 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

Yeeeahhh, I was gunna say that but I didn't want to insult your intelligence. It'll be wayyyyyy harder to turn with the plugs in.


If it were me, the first thing I would check is the exhaust gaskets. Especially since they've been replaced. I once had an old timer tell me to use a cigarette, or ideally one of those incense sticks you can get that have different aromas, and let the smoke go around the headers where they mate with the engine, and if it's bad enough you should see the exhaust leak blow on the smoke. It's not fool proof but it's alot better than burning your face on the headers trying to put an ear to the engine

Last edited by maniac1886; 04-20-2017 at 04:59 PM.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by maniac1886 View Post
Yeeeahhh, I was gunna say that but I didn't want to insult your intelligence. It'll be wayyyyyy harder to turn with the plugs in.


If it were me, the first thing I would check is the exhaust gaskets. Especially since they've been replaced. I once had an old timer tell me to use a cigarette, or ideally one of those incense sticks you can get that have different aromas, and let the smoke go around the headers where they mate with the engine, and if it's bad enough you should see the exhaust leak blow on the smoke. It's not fool proof but it's alot better than burning your face on the headers trying to put an ear to the engine
Hahha. Oh yeah. I did hear a light sizzle sound internally as I turn the crank. Gotta remove all plugs and try again. Thanks Maniac for the tip, that's a cool way to check the exhaust gasket by lighting up. I shall try that.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Prior to Shims replacement, I removed the End Cans and Y pipe to re-adjust the position of the exhaust since my stand kept hitting the end cans. I pushed the Y far into the headers to slip in a little more. Guessing there might be leakage from the front exhaust gaskets by this simple act since the headers tucked forward as I pushed the Y.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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Despite removing the header and readjust the header and torque down the bolts, the noise persists. No exhaust leak. Oh man...damn
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Oh yes, forget to mention that after I removed the plugs, it is easier to turn the Crank now. Any ideas where else should I look at?
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:37 PM
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Re: very loud cam chain rattle noise

What happens of you roll the engine by hand with the cams still in. Do you hear or feel anything at all? It may be very subtle at such a slow rotating speed. Maybe your cams were out of time and you smacked a valve?

If the bike was running fine, and All you did was take the valve cover off and cams out, then put it back together the chances of a rod bearing coincidentally spinning out the first time you start it would be equal to getting struck by lightning. Cuz if all you did was take the cams out, it would be pure coincidence. That's why I have a real hard time believing its anything on the bottom end, clutch included. I'm not familiar with your motor but you should be able to look in the exhaust and down the intake and see the valve stems. I would pull the throttle bodies and headers, and have some one roll the motor while you watch the valve stems very closely to make sure they are opening and closing as expected. If that cam was off a couple of teeth, a valve may have hit a piston.

If you have a compression tester, that would be a great test to do instead of taking it all apart. If you smacked a valve it wouldn't seat properly and you should see a huge difference in compression between one cylinder and the other three.
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