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Help me with my turbo shopping list !!!

5K views 20 replies 6 participants last post by  Maj750 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone i recently made a nice purchase wich is gonna be a start for a K2 1000 turbo build,
now i dont have much experencies with turbos but i am learning alot on here and other forums wich brought me so far and,
and i want you turbo experts view on my shopping list... and some things i wont need or i forgot please chime in... so here we go first engine specs

Stock bottom end and rod & pistons

Ape head studs

Webcam 389 intake cam
degreed at 105/105 will this combo work well with a turbo set up ?
Yoshimura 362 exhaust cam

Yoshimura valve springs (can be shimmed for more seat pressure)

recently had a valve job and minimal skimming

so on the turbo stuff

ive bought a Precision A/R 48 - 60 turbo (what ever that means hope its not to big)

its a bare turbo with el cheapo ebay manifold but i may shorten it or make it work

So the list i have is :

Tial 44mm waste gate with flashy water cooling haha

50mm Tial blow off valve

AEM Fuel pressure regulator

AEM 320lph fuel pump the universal one fits a GSXR without much issues ive read somewhere ?



Cometic 70. headgasket

and if want to get in to higher boost a lockup clutch

and do the bottom end with rods and pistons etc

but my first question : with the stock bottom and stronger clutch springs whats the max hp it can handle safely ?

oh and ive already have a PCV with ignition controller and auto tune with AEM Map sensor

and i need to build some piping and stuff and i may make my own plenum.... but is it true that the Throttle body spacing on a 1st gen busa is the same on a k1 to k3 gsxr ?

i am sure i will have more questions when the turbo arrives and i put everything together.

thanks in advance.
 
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#2 ·
Hi everyone i recently made a nice purchase wich is gonna be a start for a K2 1000 turbo build,
now i dont have much experencies with turbos but i am learning alot on here and other forums wich brought me so far and,
and i want you turbo experts view on my shopping list... and some things i wont need or i forgot please chime in... so here we go first engine specs

Stock bottom end and rod & pistons , at least ceramic coat the pistons

Ape head studs

Webcam 389 intake cam
degreed at 105/105 will this combo work well with a turbo set up ? Turbos dont like big cams, go back to std or something like 06 gix, 105 is good
Yoshimura 362 exhaust cam ,

Yoshimura valve springs (can be shimmed for more seat pressure)

recently had a valve job and minimal skimming

so on the turbo stuff

ive bought a Precision A/R 48 - 60 turbo (what ever that means hope its not to big) need more detail on turbo model

its a bare turbo with el cheapo ebay manifold but i may shorten it or make it work , ebay turbo manifolds are poor quality and fit , but some have made them work,

So the list i have is :

39MM Precision waste gate

50mm Tial blow off valve

BEGI FMU

AEM 320lph fuel pump the universal one fits a GSXR without much issues ive read somewhere ?

S2000 Injectors dont need these with the FMU unless your chasing more power than the stock pistons and rods can support
put the std injectors back in for beter ridability

Cometic 70. headgasket

and if want to get in to higher boost a lockup clutch. you will need better clutch springs at any level of turbo, shimmed std valve springs work well, lockup is good choice too

and do the bottom end with rods and pistons etc

but my first question : with the stock bottom and stronger clutch springs whats the max hp it can handle safely ? set up well your fuel type will dictate its potential, 8-10 psi on pump, 14 or 300hp max on std bottom end , but set up badly you can hurt it easy at 6 psi

oh and ive already have a PCV with ignition controller and auto tune wich brings me to my next question can auto tune tune a turbo engine ? not in the high load boost areas, you will hurt it before finishing the tune,

and how do i do it oil wise a scavenger pump ? and do i need 2 pumps if the turbo doesnt drain well i am a little puzzeled on that one , if the turbo is mounted high enough, oil level at least below the turbo oil drain flange,and 5/8 drain hose running down hill to the pan then it will gravity drain

and i need to build some piping and stuff and i may make my own plenum.... but is it true that the Throttle body spacing on a 1st gen busa is the same on a k1 to k3 gsxr ? yes

i am sure i will have more questions when the turbo arrives and i put everything together.

thanks in advance.
Have fun:cheers
 
#3 ·
thanks for the info it clears alot off stuff up.... always the turbo goeroe and saves me some $ on the injectors those are expensive haha

regarding the cams... peak lift on my intake cam isnt much higher then a K6 but duration if different... exhaust cam might be to high for turbo application i guess
but some guys on suzukihayabusa.org are saying with big cams you wil make more power on less psi... quite confusing... what if i degreed them differently like 106/104 or 105/104 (103)

I realy hope it will gravity drain but i am afraid in combination with the ebay manifold the turbo is gonna be below the oil level... but we will see i have a spare sump to use for a gravity drain...
but i may build a sump for the turbo but they usually have a scavenger pump to so.... i may need to mod the manifold and have it sit higher still and let it drain properly.... damn scavenger pumps are expensive

but i forgot to ask about the feed to the turbo first off what is the best place on it ? ive a t piece on the oil pressure sensor... but where can i get one ? and are their other options ? like the stock cam chain tensioner oil feed ? just need a metric to AN fitting

I already have brocks clutch springs but are they gonna hold more then 250 hp ?

i would be running between 250 and 300 hp on 98 octane wich we get at the pump here so about 8 to 10 psi i guess

but first trying the weakest wastegate spring and see what it does haha

I am also waiting on turbo specs as my turbo is not where i am its with a friend in the US but ive heard it needs a rebuild to so if its a T3/T4 without internal gate i would be upgrading the journal bearings while i am at it... and it must be balanced after a rebuild right ?

about the autotune... youre saying it isnt fast enough or ? i would need a turbo tuner... i am in holland i hope their are some out there :shifty

the fun is just beginning piecing everything together :suicide
 
#8 ·
.... ebay manifold....


I already have brocks clutch springs but are they gonna hold more then 250 hp ?

i would be running between 250 and 300 hp on 98 octane wich we get at the pump here so about 8 to 10 psi i guess
-I hope you have better luck than all the people who I have heard have had nothing but disastrous results with those crappy chinese manifolds.

-The stock clutch on my K5 (with heavy duty springs/welded slipper)got to 245rwhp before the power drove right through it. I needed a lockup.

-If this is a streetbike,I would think stock cams would be best. If you want more power its simple: turn the boost up a few psi. Save the special cams for an all out build when you are looking for every last bit of horsepower. The stock cams will offer much better streetablity when you are not on boost,cruising through town at lower rpms.
 
#4 ·
too much duration slows transition to boost, sort of exaggerates the effect of the cam
If you need a scavenge pump then put a low pressure check valve in the oil supply side, stops the turbo filling up with oil when parked
tee from pressure switch is good, so is any of the side gallerys, or double up on the head supply banjo (brake banjo bolt can work if both threads are same pitch , there are 2 standards common)

Rebuilder typicaly balances the turbo when fitting new bearings, you can do bearings yourself and mark the shaft and compressor wheel so they end up in exactly the same place and does not need balancing

Autotune is not fast enough , and can lead you astray
 
#5 ·
What do you mean about the side gallerys ?

is that one of the CCT oil feed ?


no need for the check valve when not using a scavenge pump ?

basicly what i sad in my first post, that to much duration is gonna blow the mix out without burning it.... luckily its not the biggest cam out there or something but if i understand correctly the duration of the exhaust cam is key here as would be the overlap... i have alot off cams i can chose from... stock 750 exhaust, stage 1 yosh exhaust, stock 1000 exhaust, and all 3 intake also.....
gonna look up the the peak lift and duration.... probably the stock 1000 exhaust cam or the yosh stage 1 exhaust as it is degreeable
 
#6 ·
Any of the large allen head plugs on either side of the motor is a gallery that can be used , some models have more that are externally accessable than others ,
cct feed is using one
gravity drain doesnt have the same problem of blocking the drain when not running or powered, oil can drain from the gallerys enough to fill the turbo above shaft level on a scavenge system ,

too much duration can also give reversion and dilute charge in the cylinders, much more exhaust backpressure with a turbo ,
bigger duration cams may get you more top end power but cost in low and mid range, the stuff that gets you on boost earlier

we have 06 1000 cams in our 750 race bike and big for 750 gt2871 turbo, its like a manic 2 stroke, but thats fine in our application of landsped racing, it would be horrible on the street
 
#7 ·
Learning so much! Really looking into turbo setup on my 00 750. I would want basic!!! Basic!!

What controler can he run? Other then Power commander, what would you recommend? Would a stand alone be the best choice? Or can you still run his stock ECU with a piggy back system like PC?

Sorry I'm asking questions for you!
Stock fuel injectors are ok? They produce enough volume to do the task!?
Clutch wise, what would be a good setup?
And no matter what boost you run, ceramic coating Pistons is a must? Or cheep insurance. I know the air is super hot, and melting a piston happens. Only in her ghee boost applications? Or low boost as well?

I don't want to post jack, I'll make a new one for me. But, I sure will ask some questions.
 
#10 ·
It seems an all out build is happening sooner then i thought unfornately

i was cleaning the oil pan on my engine... wich i bought with a sound and there where copper pieces in the pan
so i am not gonna risk running it and rebuilding it... gonna cost me a !@#$% load more $ but its gonna hold a hell of alot of boost when all said and done but that would take a while
i will keep posted on progess
 
#12 ·
Ive been reading the same on suzukihayabusa.org are you on there also?
also with a good aftermarket MAP sensor connected to the PCV the tuning is also more reliable

my plan off attack right now is :

JE Turbo pistons

Crower rods

having the crank journals resurfaced, hardened, balanced, Titanium nitride coated journals

turbo is also getting the special treatment, dont know if its possible though but why not coat the axle TiN and the bearings a ceramic coat, also why not the wristpins and buckets and stuff... gonna cost me though i think but its some good insurance i hope haha

offcourse new bearings all round... set to the maximum specifications, on the plastiguage... more boost= more pressure on the rods and crank... and i dont want another spun rod bearing... but it requires more oil pressure but not to much so oil is forced out of their before it can lubricate... so the dilemma is... higher pressure relief valve... or the high pressure oil pump gear or both ?
 
#13 ·
Yes I'm on busa org, I've read that the the valve is OTT, I've gone for the later better oil pump, I think its from K7 upwards?, & over filling the engine with very good oil. Its a job to know what to do, I've built my bike for good upper mid range & I run it on a lower max RPM limit. as to the other things you mention I don't know.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Hmm,strange what you say about the Autotune. Everything I have read from the engine/tuning guru's on both Busa forums strongly urge not to use it. It cant tune fast enough for a turbo engines needs.

I run the hi pressure relief valve on mine,as per my engine builders suggestion. As for overfilling the oil,Id have to say thats not a good idea.

What sayeth Greg??? Id listen to whatever he says,regardless of what others say on the forums.
 
#16 ·
I forgot the mention... i am not actually going to tune it with the autotune from the start... just having it afterwards to make small adjustments... i just ment... that some guys are positive about the tuning for it
 
#17 ·
I think autotune is just a tool like any other in the toolbox, it can be misused , or it can help
not used PC autotune but have with Editor and Vipec ,
if you have any sort of misfire its useless , unburnt oxygen puts your readings out
keep your runs short , if you stray into the 13:1 range heavily loaded you will only have seconds before causing damage
back up your maps and associate them with particular logs so you can go back and review and change, and be prepared to discard a map and go back to a better version if autotune starts leading you astray
carefully setup your autotune parameters , for early tuning only need a couple of samples (short runs) to see whats going on, later you can fine tune and set for more samples
dont skimp on your fuel quality esp at the start , hi octane race gas is expensive (not oxygenated), but if your still finding out weather or not you have boost creep on the new build or have a estimated fuel map and starting tuning , its a good insurance, sure your tune will need adjusting for whatever pump gas your using later but it will be a % trim on the whole map
if your cyls are part of the cases like late gsxrs and many other brands you cant afford to take many chances

what the autotune can do for A/F is fine but you also have ignition to tune , that needs an experianced hand on the dyno , and will influence a/f
 
#18 ·
He has spoken :biggrin
Everytime Maj makes a post I learn something. :cheers
 
#19 ·
Me to haha... but i do have a hard time understanding the last post... but i just woke up etc.

there is a turbo tuner here in holland so i will be taking it there...

but you said the auto tune does tune the AF ratio not the ignition... but my ignition controller is line with my PCV and autotune doesnt it not adjust spark also ?
 
#20 ·
AFAIK the Ignition Module is a separate function and the AT doesnt make ignition changes just fueling.
 
#21 ·
Like i said i have not used the PC autotune, , the info is pretty general if your tuning manually or autotune
if the autotune has pre set parameters like requiring you to hold several seconds at any particular load or rpm and cant get enough info riding through these areas its not as suitable
then i would just log and adjust manually

Ign adjustments are done after comparing dyno graphs , make a run, pull 4 degrees and make another , anywhere you loose hp add more timing, anywhere you gain pull more out
keep fine tuning comparing runs , some form of knock detection is handy , but the dyno can tell you too, motors loose hp as they get near the knock threshold
when its near right a couple of degrees in either direction makes very little change in hp, leave it on the safe side of this window
adjust the AF as needed while doing this , if you get the ign real good you can aim for slightly leaner a/f , like 12:1 or very close to , again having audible knock detection helps
 
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