Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit... - Page 10 - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
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post #181 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 09:13 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by Just_Nick View Post
Again, what are you talking about? Gear indicators are not always accurate, and you should know what gear you're in to begin with. Especially neutral. It's especially bad for idiots, who think the bike is in neutral because the dash says so, so they full release the clutch and go flying because it was in first.
Also, when did counting become hard? I rode for many years without an indicator, I always knew what gear I was in.
Up until my current bike, I had NO gear indicator.
Ya just knew.

My current bike HAS a gear indicator, I even glance at it from time to time, and say to myself something like 'Yep, I'm in 4th', etc.

But I'll be damned, the thing is broke or something,
'cause I can never get it to show 'R'- when I'm backing up!
I mean, what's up with that?
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post #182 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 09:44 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by Todd_Sails View Post
Up until my current bike, I had NO gear indicator.
Ya just knew.

My current bike HAS a gear indicator, I even glance at it from time to time, and say to myself something like 'Yep, I'm in 4th', etc.

But I'll be damned, the thing is broke or something,
'cause I can never get it to show 'R'- when I'm backing up!
I mean, what's up with that?
You should call Suzuki Corporate and complain. Tell them it needs reverse lights and beeping.
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post #183 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 02:52 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by Todd_Sails View Post
Up until my current bike, I had NO gear indicator.
Ya just knew.

My current bike HAS a gear indicator, I even glance at it from time to time, and say to myself something like 'Yep, I'm in 4th', etc.

But I'll be damned, the thing is broke or something,
'cause I can never get it to show 'R'- when I'm backing up!
I mean, what's up with that?
What about "beep, CAUTION idiot reversing, beep CAUTION idiot reversing"....
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post #184 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 02:59 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

Why do I have to be an idiot?

Have you been talking with my wife?
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post #185 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 06:35 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
I'm struggling to see the point of the drive mode selectors on the road, it's just going to confuse you by changing the throttle response. Imagine you are used to riding in C mode and then you forget and ride in A mode. I honestly think people should just learn the control the throttle as-is.

Track wise, I'm sure someone with more experience could comment on that, but I strongly suspect you wouldn't use DMS on the track as a beginner.


I believe you are right about this. I don't ever use it on the fly, it's unnecessary. What it is useful for is when you have pre-determined conditions, like rain. I can see it's use on the track, especially with a sprocket conversion, not on the fly but in a pre-meditated attempt to cap the machine (if that makes sense).

I see the point of respecting the bike as moot. They are just no joke, motos. Pretty much, just like you all suggest, I now agree: start small. Or as I will attest, get a DMS model so you can C mode it for a few months. I didn't grow up on a bike, but I did start on a 99ninja 250. The DMS is not an on the fly protocol for me, just a pre-determination on how I want to ride. C mode is pretty dull, I will tell you. And never being on a track before, I am considering myself a [track] beginner once I get there.

Try the DMS if you can. I think it's a good alternative to a 250. But your experienced endorsements are much more critical than mine.
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post #186 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 07:01 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by Grandma Seagull View Post
Try the DMS if you can. I think it's a good alternative to a 250. But your experienced endorsements are much more critical than mine.
No, it is not and it is not intended to be a nanny for someone who's ego couldn't take starting on a "lesser" bike. When you start the bike, YOU have to put in C mode, if you stop to get gas, YOU have to put it in C mode, If you take a break, YOU have to put it in C mode. You know how it will react in C mode but the first time you forget to put in C mode and you get on the throttle but SURPRISE you're in A mode and panic sets in, you're crashing. IT IS NOT A NANNY SYSTEM, it's a tool to be used (or not used) by experienced riders not a babysitter for new, inexperienced riders who have no business on a race bike. Newer bikes only have A and B mode, no C mode.

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post #187 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 07:19 PM
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Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

The best is when they claim a 1000 with the modes is like having three bikes in one, A/B/C = 1000/750/600. No it isn't
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post #188 of 200 (permalink) Old 11-30-2016, 07:49 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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The best is when they claim a 1000 with the modes is like having three bikes in one, A/B/C = 1000/750/600. No it isn't


I just watched that video the other night and IT'S STILL FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!
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post #189 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 01:05 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

Its common around here to hear people advise new riders to buy a Gsxr 1000 because of the mode selector. And because they will get tired of a 600 or anything smaller in less than a month. They always say put it in C and is a 600 easy to ride on... Not always the best advice. The problem is most people didn't take the time to read how the ABC Modes really work.
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post #190 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 06:00 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by SJB View Post
Its common around here to hear people advise new riders to buy a Gsxr 1000 because of the mode selector. And because they will get tired of a 600 or anything smaller in less than a month. They always say put it in C and is a 600 easy to ride on... Not always the best advice. The problem is most people didn't take the time to read how the ABC Modes really work.
Basically B mode makes you have to twist the throttle further to achieve the same opening level and C also caps the maximum throttle.

A GSXR1000 still has a massive amount of torque/acceleration at 2/3 throttle so it's not like having a 600 at all.
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post #191 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 06:01 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
Basically B mode makes you have to twist the throttle further to achieve the same opening level and C also caps the maximum throttle.

A GSXR1000 still has a massive amount of torque/acceleration at 2/3 throttle so it's not like having a 600 at all.
Which reminds me, what I really want is a '0' mode (something before A) which makes the maximum throttle opening shorter so you don't have to grab a big hand-full if you want to open it all the way
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post #192 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 06:19 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
Which reminds me, what I really want is a '0' mode (something before A) which makes the maximum throttle opening shorter so you don't have to grab a big hand-full if you want to open it all the way
Unfortunately, this can't be done, at least not without a fully motorized, ride-by-wire throttle body.
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post #193 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 07:28 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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I just watched that video the other night and IT'S STILL FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!

Yup never gets old
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post #194 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 07:45 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by SJB View Post
Its common around here to hear people advise new riders to buy a Gsxr 1000 because of the mode selector. And because they will get tired of a 600 or anything smaller in less than a month. They always say put it in C and is a 600 easy to ride on... Not always the best advice. The problem is most people didn't take the time to read how the ABC Modes really work.
"Its common around here to hear people advise new riders to buy a Gsxr 1000 because of the mode selector. "
I don't think I've ever seen that here on GDC.
Maybe 'around here' is where you are?
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post #195 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 08:23 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by Todd_Sails View Post
"Its common around here to hear people advise new riders to buy a Gsxr 1000 because of the mode selector. "
I don't think I've ever seen that here on GDC.
Maybe 'around here' is where you are?
Ya,he must be referring to where he lives because that's definitely not what we'd recommend
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post #196 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 02:57 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by dpapavas View Post
Unfortunately, this can't be done, at least not without a fully motorized, ride-by-wire throttle body.
I'm pretty sure the throttle just gives the ECU a signal as to how far it's open, otherwise you couldn't do the A, B and C modes to start with?
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post #197 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-01-2016, 04:35 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by springfall2008 View Post
I'm pretty sure the throttle just gives the ECU a signal as to how far it's open, otherwise you couldn't do the A, B and C modes to start with?
Modes are implemented through the secondaries, as far as I'm aware of. The twist grip controls the primary throttles mechanically (through the cables) and the ECU can, in fact, read their position, through the TPS and it can then command the secondaries to close, so that the total flow through the intake is the same (give or take) as if you'd opened the primaries X% less. The other scenario is not possible, because if you only twist the grip let's say 50%, you only open the primaries 50%. No matter what you set the secondaries to, you can't undo the restirction of the primaries and increase the flow through the intake.

By the way: The dual throttle plate bodies of the GSXRs have all the components necessary for a throttle-by-wire system. For instance, one could easily modify them to be one, by just removing the primary throttle plates (but not the shaft), and flashing the ECU so that the secondaries follow the TPS across the RPM range (which is possible since, as far as I know, the STVA maps are RPM x TPS). I've often wondered why Suzuki chose to go with this setup, instead of a cheaper, more compact, throttle-by-wire system (which could trivially implement the current behavior). I can only think of safety reasons, (since a failure of the secondaries can only close the throttle and is therefore not as critical), but then I wonder how the actual ride-by-wire systems deal with such concerns...
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post #198 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 12:35 AM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by Todd_Sails View Post
"Its common around here to hear people advise new riders to buy a Gsxr 1000 because of the mode selector. "
I don't think I've ever seen that here on GDC.
Maybe 'around here' is where you are?
Sorry should have stated where I live its common advice given. I have actually told some people to come and read this thread before buying their first bike.
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post #199 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:23 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Originally Posted by dpapavas View Post
Modes are implemented through the secondaries, as far as I'm aware of. The twist grip controls the primary throttles mechanically (through the cables) and the ECU can, in fact, read their position, through the TPS and it can then command the secondaries to close, so that the total flow through the intake is the same (give or take) as if you'd opened the primaries X% less. The other scenario is not possible, because if you only twist the grip let's say 50%, you only open the primaries 50%. No matter what you set the secondaries to, you can't undo the restirction of the primaries and increase the flow through the intake.

By the way: The dual throttle plate bodies of the GSXRs have all the components necessary for a throttle-by-wire system. For instance, one could easily modify them to be one, by just removing the primary throttle plates (but not the shaft), and flashing the ECU so that the secondaries follow the TPS across the RPM range (which is possible since, as far as I know, the STVA maps are RPM x TPS). I've often wondered why Suzuki chose to go with this setup, instead of a cheaper, more compact, throttle-by-wire system (which could trivially implement the current behavior). I can only think of safety reasons, (since a failure of the secondaries can only close the throttle and is therefore not as critical), but then I wonder how the actual ride-by-wire systems deal with such concerns...
Maybe the mechanical linkage is faster or smoother?
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post #200 of 200 (permalink) Old 12-02-2016, 03:50 PM
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Re: Why "respecting the bike" is bullshit...

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Maybe the mechanical linkage is faster or smoother?
That might also be a consideration, though a) from what I recall, even relatively cheap hobby-grade robotics/remote control servos, had ample speed, resolution and holding torque (which is what fast, smooth and accurate is all about) and b) whatever the performance of the servo, it's still there in the SDTV setup so if it's not fast or smooth enough you're going to have the same problems regardless of the mechanically controlled primaries. For instance consider going slowly with a closed throttle and similarly closed secondaries. If you then open the throttle in a fast but smooth fashion, in order to accelerate but the secondaries don't open fast or smoothly enough, the end effect is going to be dictated by the slow secondaries (as an open plate doesn't mean much if it's behind a closed one).
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