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post #21 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 04:39 AM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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post #22 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 05:00 AM
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post #23 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-24-2015, 05:32 AM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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Sam makes a public safety thread/ends up with talk of The Terminator movies.
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post #24 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 10:29 AM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Forget riding, that site makes me not want to get out of my home any more!
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post #25 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 04:18 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Sorry guys, but I would like to get back on topic.

I am very curious about the dirt-bike to street-bike transition. I am also very curious about the comment in 2nd reply (the small print picture with various sub-sections) within the third subsection: "There are reasons other than HP and speed that determine not to get super-sport." Moving on with my questions now.

1. Can anyone give some good insight on what experience level of dirt riding can give you an advantage on the street? I have ridden 230's (hondas) and 250's for 12 years now, although not as often now as before. I learned, started and became a proficient off-road (not MX or stunts) trail rider in Alaska and it is hard for me to ride a lot here in TN because I don't have time or riding partners to go to the nice trails. Plus I tend to get bored really fast on most of the trails here. Nonetheless, I keep going every once in a while just so I don't lose the feel and experience, plus it's just really really fun to throw on some gear and rip up some dirt (I LOVE trailblazing on my bike, such a good challenge). I have also, because you can in Alaska, got on the roads or side of highway and rode my dirt-bike 50+ mph in traffic (there is something so humorous when you pass a car on the highway riding a little 250 dirt-bike haha. Can i say, "double-takes then more pedal??"). That may be useless and unnecessary information, but I really want to give you guys as much information as possible so I can receive that most help possible.

2. Second question is this. Say I get a CBR300R or SV650. Regarding the post about sticking to lines and road hazards, how do these handle differently then say a 600/750 gixxer in those mid-turn situations (The 1000 is a stupid and childish decision and perhaps 600/750 would be too)? I am curious as to their difference in steering, suspension, etc... and would appreciate humble and honest opinions regarding this question.

As I close, I hope this thread is not taken the wrong way with newer riders. There is definitely some skill in riding on the dirt fast (not around the yard or your farm) and I sincerely hope very inexperienced or brand-new riders can understand this.

Thanks in advance to all you guys and gals,

Tim

P.S. Some of us newer riders who come in all googly-eyed, will find out we are googly-eyed and develop some sense.
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post #26 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 04:53 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Dirt definitely helps with the transition to street, especially with the fact you have ridden it at 50mph in traffic in Alaska.

The main reason for me to always advise against a supersport bike for a beginner rider is the mistake factor. A smaller-cc bike, or non-supersport bike, is much more forgiving when it comes to mistakes than a supersport is.

Hit a bump/pothole/dip/whatever on a small-cc bike, and when the jolt causes you to mistakenly romp on the throttle not much will happen. Hit that same bump/pothole/dip/whatever on a supersport, and when it causes you to romp on the throttle by mistake, it can stick you in the ground like a golf tee.

Same with the brakes. The brakes on a supersport are much more sensitive to input, and are pretty easy to hit too hard and lift the rear wheel, or lock the rear wheel. On a smaller-cc bike or non-supersport, they allow for a much harder grab without it putting you on the pavement.

We always have to err on the side of caution here when recommending first bikes. We don't know you personally, don't know your riding abilities aside from what you tell us, so most of us experienced riders will always tell you it is smarter to start small.

It is always better to ride a slow bike fast, rather than ride a fast bike slow.

Take your time learning, it is a marathon, not a sprint.

Used to race, used to be fast, won a few championships.

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post #27 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 05:43 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Thank you very much Anthony D,

I respect your concern for new riders, but I have been trying to get this answer for years and it seems like it is hard to get past the sarcastic and antagonistic responses due to the unreasonably high frequency of squids.

Further, is there somewhere better to discuss this with you experienced riders so my questions and your answers do not distort the mind of inexperienced motorcycle riders reading a stickied post?

Once again, thank you,

Tim
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post #28 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 05:51 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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Originally Posted by DrHaire View Post
Thank you very much Anthony D,

I respect your concern for new riders, but I have been trying to get this answer for years and it seems like it is hard to get past the sarcastic and antagonistic responses due to the unreasonably high frequency of squids.

Further, is there somewhere better to discuss this with you experienced riders so my questions and your answers do not distort the mind of inexperienced motorcycle riders reading a stickied post?

Once again, thank you,

Tim
What is the question that you need an answer to?

We can discuss this further through PM if you want.
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post #29 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 06:07 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Going from dirt to street will give you an advantage of how the bike is operated but that's about it. Even in that regard a dirt bike and sport bike is 2 totally different machines. There is so much more going on in the streets that it's like a whole different world. Giving yourself as much room for error as you possibly could is the single best thing you can do while making the transition. It's sad but there is that group of people who label guys on a sportbike as punks and will not give a shit about your safety. That's where your experience and instincts will come into play. One close call I had was on the freeway. I was in the far left lane going 5 miles over speed limit but apparently that wasn't enough for the gentleman behind me. He floored it and passed me on the left side. This freeway didn't have a shoulder, just a barricade and maybe 5ft of space. Scared the shit out of me as he was literally inches from my leg. Any sign of panic would have sent me into the car on my right or into him. On a liter bike any movement of that throttle will give you a jolt. Even my current 750 needs a tame right hand. Gearing up will help with slides and minor accidents but will not do a damn thing if you get stuck under someone's car or get hit by any moving vehicle. I was confident when shopping for my first bike as I too came from off-road experience, but was like a wet cat when I first got on the open road. .


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post #30 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 06:17 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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Originally Posted by DrHaire View Post

2. Second question is this. Say I get a CBR300R or SV650. Regarding the post about sticking to lines and road hazards, how do these handle differently then say a 600/750 gixxer in those mid-turn situations (The 1000 is a stupid and childish decision and perhaps 600/750 would be too)? I am curious as to their difference in steering, suspension, etc... and would appreciate humble and honest opinions regarding this

A smaller bike will be much easier to handle and maneuver. When you take the MSF class notice how easy it is to flick those night Hawks from left to right and doing the figure 8's inside the box. A GSXR will not feel like that. The bike is very top heavy and hard to maneuver in tight places and slow turns. The riding position is also a learning curve as its much more performance oriented.


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post #31 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 06:38 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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Originally Posted by Anthony D View Post
Hit a bump/pothole/dip/whatever on a small-cc bike, and when the jolt causes you to mistakenly romp on the throttle not much will happen. Hit that same bump/pothole/dip/whatever on a supersport, and when it causes you to romp on the throttle by mistake, it can stick you in the ground like a golf tee.
This is something I wonder about. Coming from the dirt I am used to hitting stuff a lot and riding on packed snow in AK has giving me some good throttle management, however, I am curious as to the difference in sensitivity and rear-wheel management. For instance, if you turn to sharp, go to fast, or give too much throttle on the packed snow (its more or less like ice) you go down. On the other hand, because of knobby tires a little bit of slide is not only normal and expected in the dirt, the bike is designed to handle that type of riding. Further, I feel that trail riding and unwanted weather conditions (rain/mud, snow, ice, creeks) inherently cause dirt-riders to develop a good sense of balance and understanding of not over correcting (if I am wrong please tell me). So my question: if I hit a pothole with a gixxer 750 and my hand nibs (not so much turns) the throttle will this give a ton of feedback? Also, from your experience thinking back, how much "grabbing" of the throttle should be expected when hitting these kinds of obstructions? Further, from your experience how is hitting a pothole or uneven road on a street bike different for potential disaster from that of hitting whoops, branches, or small jumps on the dirt??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony D View Post
Same with the brakes. The brakes on a supersport are much more sensitive to input, and are pretty easy to hit too hard and lift the rear wheel, or lock the rear wheel. On a smaller-cc bike or non-supersport, they allow for a much harder grab without it putting you on the pavement.
Regarding this, how can ABS help this and does any of the gixxers offer this with the 2015 or earlier models, particularly with the 750, which is what I have my eye on currently.

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Originally Posted by LEKS View Post
Going from dirt to street will give you an advantage of how the bike is operated but that's about it. Even in that regard a dirt bike and sport bike is 2 totally different machines. There is so much more going on in the streets that it's like a whole different world. Giving yourself as much room for error as you possibly could is the single best thing you can do while making the transition...I was confident when shopping for my first bike as I too came from off-road experience, but was like a wet cat when I first got on the open road
^This. Which bike did you start on? What dirt-bike/experience did you come from? and looking back, while keeping my situation and experience in mind, would you have done anything different.

I understand that terrible situations will happen and that we are inherently at risk for our lives being on a motorcycle. Further, I would rather not take the exceptions as the rules because most of the time we cannot control what other people do, only ourselves. That being said, I am not trying to attribute everything to luck, and I am trying not to be a punk squid, but I am trying to get the most information I can and make the most rational decision I can. To counter that though, its hard for me personally to get something I do not like and "settle," I end up getting discouraged or antagonistic which isn't going to help anything.

So... in the event of your near-miss, how would braking have affected the encounter. I naturally have a much more instinctive tendency to brake then to gas (a problem I had to deal with on the dirt and likely on the road). Further, I am a very very defensive driver, even in my F-150, so if someone behind me gets close or itchy I will get out of their way instead of getting mad and "sticking it to them." Whenever the time comes, I do not plan to spend too much time in heavy traffic and I will have absolutely no problem pulling over or getting out of the way of cagers who think its cool to race/drive recklessly around me on a supersport.

Thanks guys this is very very helpful for me,

Tim
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post #32 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 06:47 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEKS View Post
A smaller bike will be much easier to handle and maneuver. When you take the MSF class notice how easy it is to flick those night Hawks from left to right and doing the figure 8's inside the box. A GSXR will not feel like that. The bike is very top heavy and hard to maneuver in tight places and slow turns. The riding position is also a learning curve as its much more performance oriented.
I will definitely take note of this. A question I would ask you is whenever I go to look at buying my first bike and test driving a 750/600, how can I accurately measure this issue. What are some everyday situations that would be similar to doing a figure eight, or tight places? What is a slow-turn considered (e.g. turning into a parking space, turning in-to or out-of gas station pumps, or turning right at the stop light?) and is there anyway to get sufficient practice with this, say in an empty parking lot or driveway? Also what are common causes of a bike being dropped or laid over while going sub 5mph and what can I do to avoid this?

Thanks once again,

Tim

P.S. I know these are a lot of questions, but I really want do everything I can to prepare and sadly a lot of people on youtube or in reviews don't help in this area.
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post #33 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 07:25 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

everyday you ride is different. never been on the bike two times in a row and felt the same or dealt with the same conditions. you have good days where you are in the groove and other days that you feel like you are brand new. you have to be prepared for whatever at all times

your questions show that you have very little experience on two wheels. less than 5mph drops? put your feet down...

get a smaller bike. ride it in parking lots til you feel comfortable on the street. ride on street for a while then upgrade to bigger bike when ready. no you wont be the coolest dude out there but its better then crashed or dead. you are overthinking this. you have asked many times the same question in different ways and anthony d has commented and given good advice on all. take his advice. research. and then make your decision. you know how we feel about the situation.

just be safe
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post #34 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 07:36 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Alright, I am sorry for the three consecutive posts, I am not trying to be a "post-whore."

That being said, I have decided against starting with a super sport. Here is my reasons:

1. As a 24 year old individual I would rather pay in full for a used "ninja 250" then save up to buy a supersport next winter season when they go on sale and dealers are having a harder time selling. To further clarify, I am not planning on buying til after I graduate in December and the soonest MSF class is next March, which means I am buying when all the other squids and new riders are.

2. As a 24 year old individual, insurance for full coverage on a 600 gixxer is upwards of 350 dollars a month, insurance for full coverage on a 2010 ninja 250 is 37 dollars a month. When I turn 25 next June, this cost will go down significantly so I have heard, plus I will diligently work for months to a year developing a claim free policy with my 250. Side note: considering everyone drops their first bike, I would rather do this on a bike that has most likely been dropped previously and on a bike that I do not plan on keeping.

3. This is my most important and significant reason. I really, really don't want to die, be paralyzed, never ride again, or total my brand new gixxer 750 (my dream bike, however, the liter gixxer is also in my sights way down the road).

4.
Quote:
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Take your time learning, it is a marathon, not a sprint.
^This. I cannot stress how much this comment rings true and means to me. When I took a step back and thought about all my other hobbies, this is what I realized. Riding is a hobby and a privilege. Further, we know from every other hobby in the world, especially as Americans, that we will not be fully and life-long satisfied with our first purchase and we will most assuredly at some point buy another. Of course some may use bikes as daily drivers, but if you honestly will never have fun why not get a 250? You go 60 miles longer a tank for 6 dollars less (60-70 mpg on a 3.5 gallon tank vs. 30-40 mpgs on a 4.5 gallon tank).

I say all this to say that we as new riders come in starry-eyed with a lot of confidence, but that doesn't mean we can't gain some sense and use our "stuff between the ears" to make a more responsible decision both financially and maturely. Thanks to everyone who has helped me make this decision and I feel that I will be very satisfied when my fresh tooshie hits that gixxer in a year or 2. I also want to add that you guys have successfully answered my questions and helped me to understand I could probably handle a gixxer, but in all reality why wouldn't a "truly mature and responsible adult" (we hear that a lot don't we) choose a definite over a probable? I would rather strongly increase my chances to be the rider of a liter bike in my 30's then to take a chance at being another fallen 25 year old squid trying to prove another member wrong.

I will continue posting, asking, and contributing because I think I have some good and helpful questions that not all new riders know to ask. I have been researching this and my decision to purchase for over 4 years and my questions will be influenced by that. It is definitely hard to keep calm and responsible when I am so close to finally reaching my bike, but that isn't an excuse to make a bad decision that can cost me my life.

Thanks guys,
Tim

P.S. I was moving towards this for a long time, but I really wanted to demonstrate how respectful commenting and respectful asking can solidify a young kid's starry-eyed attitude to a mature and safe decision. If you believe I am an "actor," read my post "A serious first bike question" because I was not happy last night and am still a little salty regarding my question, however, I have recovered and have provided what I think is a much more mature and respectful way to talk to experienced riders.
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post #35 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 07:45 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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your questions show that you have very little experience on two wheels. less than 5mph drops? put your feet down...
This is the crap I am talking about. I do not appreciate that wiseasss remark. I have posted that I have in fact a lot of experience, and I have dropped my CRF230F standing still with my feet on the ground and it weighs 2/3 the weight of a gixxer. We are talking about a bike that ways almost 400 pounds. If the bike is truly top heavy (the reason I asked about sub 5mph drops) and it starts to fall over you will most likely not be able to catch it with your one leg (especially if you are short) and it will end up hitting the ground. I wish you would read more of the comments and take into consideration all the scenarios and context of my input because these are the kind of remarks that stop new riders from asking questions and then make a bad decision because they are feeling picked on or unappreciated. I, DrHaire, appreciate your comment because I think you are truly intent on helping, but over the internet and past posts it may not come across this way to a less mature member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bueshy View Post
just be safe
This on the other hand is taken very well and is a much appreciated and respected comment. Thank you for ending with this for it really helps the overall perspective of your post.

P.S. I was editing/writing my above post when you typed this, so this really had no influence on my decision. Sorry if that's disrespectful but I wanted to make it clear.
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post #36 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 09:08 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

This dude aint gonna last here....
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post #37 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 09:11 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

It's a real shame that America hasn't used the LAMS bike system ... It takes alot if this quess work out of it ... You don't have a choice , start on a bike that's better suited to learning on.

It's just like learning to swim , sometimes you will need to use the bottom to stand up ... So why start in the deep end , that's making a situation that is dangerous to start will even more so !!!

This has been covered sooooooo many times , and it's always those that think that they are the exception that wind up getting hurt ...

Your a long time dead ...

You can catch flies with honey , but you can catch more honeys being fly !!!!
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post #38 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 09:15 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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It takes a lot of this quess work out of it ..
What is this quess work you speak of? I'm Guessing,but I just cant seem to figure it out.






















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post #39 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 09:40 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

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Originally Posted by DrHaire View Post
This is the crap I am talking about. I do not appreciate that wiseasss remark. I have posted that I have in fact a lot of experience, and I have dropped my CRF230F standing still with my feet on the ground and it weighs 2/3 the weight of a gixxer. We are talking about a bike that ways almost 400 pounds. If the bike is truly top heavy (the reason I asked about sub 5mph drops) and it starts to fall over you will most likely not be able to catch it with your one leg (especially if you are short) and it will end up hitting the ground. I wish you would read more of the comments and take into consideration all the scenarios and context of my input because these are the kind of remarks that stop new riders from asking questions and then make a bad decision because they are feeling picked on or unappreciated. I, DrHaire, appreciate your comment because I think you are truly intent on helping, but over the internet and past posts it may not come across this way to a less mature member.
we are talking about a bike that weighs almost 400lbs! Exactly! weight to power ratio buddy. these bikes are light for a reason. most athletic people lift 400lbs one way or another every day in gyms. you just gotta ride the 400lbs bro. not squat it. you want a 1000 but you dropped a bike that weighs less. im not short so i dont know the issues shorter guys face but i constantly have only one leg planted and the other on footpeg. i dont even think about it. and if i feel like i might fall...i put my other leg down. i wasnt being a wiseass. i was legitimately solving your issue.

good choice starting small
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post #40 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-06-2015, 09:45 PM
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Re: For all new riders/thinking about riding

Op if you think that was a wise ass remark you got a shit storm coming your way if you continue to use this forum. Not all but a lot of the members here are very brash and will tell you straight up. One thing I've learned is if you want to use this forum you need thick skin. The opposite just doesn't last here.


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