Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes - Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com
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post #1 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Please read through these thoughts and pointers. I've edited them for space and put them here for you all to read. I hope you find it helpful.

Since another riding season is upon us, it always happens. We get lots of inquiries from potential new riders on how to get into the sport, what's a good first ride, where to take safety classes and so on. One particular type of inquiry that pops up with almost clockwork frequency is from a small number of new riders who wish to buy 600cc and up sportbikes as their first ride.

I, along with lots of other forum members, have entertained this question of 600cc - 1000cc sportbikes for a first ride with patience and lots and lots of repetition. It seems this small group of newbies keep coming back with the same arguments and questions over and over again. As a result, I am going to take the time to try and put into words, answers that get repeated over and over on the forums.

First, I would like to address the common arguments we see here as to why a 600cc sportbike simply must be a first ride along with rebuttals. Second, I want to cover the rationale behind why we steer new riders away from these machines.

False Logic

A whole slew of questions pop up from potential riders trying to convince the community that a 600cc sportbike is a suitable first ride and then proceed to explain to us why they are the exception. I guess the newbies figure by swamping the forum with the same questions in lots of places we might trip up and endorse such a machine. Hasn't happened yet but they keep on trying.

For those of you that try to convince us to endorse a 600cc and up sportbike, I offer you the following responses to your arguments.

"I can only afford to get one bike so it might as be the one that I want."

"I don't want to go through the hassle of buying and selling a used bike to learn on."

These two lines of reasoning pop up as one of the more common arguments. I am going to offer first a piece of wisdom which is stated with great regularity on the forums: This is your first bike, not your last.

Motorcycle riders are reputed to change bikes, on average, once every two to three years. If this is the case (and it appears to be based on my observations), the bike you learn to ride on will not be in your garage in a few years time anyway whether you buy it new or used. You're going to sell it regardless to get something different, newer, more powerful, more comfortable, etc.

Yes, buying a bike involves effort and a financial outlay. Most of us simply cannot afford to drop thousands of dollars on a whim every time we want to try something new. Getting into riding is a serious commitment in time and money and we want the best value out of it as possible.

However, if you can afford to buy outright or finance a 600cc or up sportbike that costs $8000 on average, you can probably afford to spend $2000 or so on a used bike to learn on. Most of the beginner sportbikes we recommend here (Ninja 250/500, GS500) can all be found used for between $1500-$3000.

Done properly, buying and selling that first bike is a fairly painless process. Buying a used bike is no harder than buying new. I would argue it is a bit easier. No different than buying a used car from a private seller. If you've done that at least once, you'll know what to do in buying a used bike.

Selling a beginner bike is even easier. You want to know why? Because beginner bikes are constantly in demand (especially Ninja 250s). These bikes spend their lives migrating from one new rider to the next to act as a teaching vehicle. It is not uncommon for a beginner bike to see four or five different owners before it is wrecked or junked. There are a lot of people out there looking for inexpensive, reliable bikes and all of our beginner recommendations fit into that category.

If you buy a used Ninja 250 for $1500 and ride it for a season or two, you can be almost guaranteed that you will be able to resell that bike for $1300 or so when you are done with it provided you take care of it. And on a bike like the Ninja 250, the average turnaround on such a sale is two to three days. Believe me, the demand is there.

And look at it this way: For those one or two seasons of riding using the above example, excluding maintenance costs which you have no matter what, you will have paid a net cost of $200 to ride that Ninja. That is extremely cheap for what is basically a bike rental for a year or two. Considering it can cost $300 or more just to rent a 600cc sportbike for a weekend (not including the $1500-$2000 security deposit), that is economic value that you simply cannot argue with.

Vanity Arguments

"The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking."

"I want something that's modern and stylish."

"I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on."

I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike.

I will not disagree that aesthetics plays a huge part in the bikes that appeal to us. Motorcycles are the ultimate expression in personal taste in vehicles. Far more than cars. Bikes are more personal and the connection between rider and machine is far more intimate on a bike than a car. On a bike, you are part of the machine, not just a passive passenger.

However, as entry into the world of riding and with the temporary status that most beginner bikes have in our garages, looks should be the least of your concerns. As long as the bike is in good repair and mechanically sound, that is usually enough for most new riders to be happy. Most riders are happy to ride and they will ride anything given the choice between riding or not riding.

If you are looking at bike mainly because of how it looks and/or how you will look on it and how others will perceive you on it, take a good, long, honest look as to why you want to ride. There are lots of people out there who buy things strictly because of how it makes them appear in the eyes of others. It's shallow and vain but it is a fact of life. It shouldn't be a factor in choosing that first ride but it is. I won't deny that.

The difference is: a BMW or Mercedes generally won't leave you hanging on for dear life if you stomp on the accelerator or throw you into the road if you slam on the brakes a little hard. Virtually every sportbike made in the past 10-15 years will do both of those things given a chance to do so (for reasons that will be explained later).

The population at large may think you're cool and look great on that brand new sportbike and ooh-and-ahh at you. The oohs can quickly turn to screams of horror should you, in your efforts to impress the masses, wind up dumping your bike and surfing the asphalt. Will you still look cool with thousands of dollars in damage to that once-beautiful sportbike and with the signatures and well-wishes of your friends on the various casts you'll be wearing months afterwards?

You Be The Judge


"I'm a big rider so I need a bigger bike to get me around."

"I'm a tall rider and all of those beginner bikes just don't fit me the way the sportbike does."

"I'll look huge and foolish riding on such a small bike.

"My friends will laugh at me for riding something so small."


These arguments are almost as bad as the vanity arguments. The difference being is they simply show a lack of motorcycle knowledge for the most part.

Unless you are over 6'3" tall or are extremely overweight (meaning well over 300lbs), even the smallest 250cc motorcycle will be able to accommodate you without difficultly. To provide an example, the Ninja 250 has a load limit of 348 pounds. That is more than sufficient to accommodate a heavier rider in full gear and still leave plenty of space for cargo. Or enough to allow two-up riding between two average weight individuals.

The idea that bigger riders need bigger bikes is almost laughable. It's like saying small drivers need Honda Civics but bigger drivers only 100 pounds heavier need to drive Hummers to get around. It is only because of the small physical size of bikes compared to their users that this train of thought even exists. It simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny. A look at any motorcycle owner's manual will confirm that for you.

For taller riders, a much better beginner fit is a dual-sport machine rather than a sport machine. They offer the high seat heights that make them comfortable rides and their power is well within acceptable limits. A dual-sport is just as capable on twisty roads as a sportbike. The same properties that give sportbikes their cornering ability is also possessed by dual sports.

As to peer pressure, which is more important: Your safety and comfort on a bike, or what your friends think?

The ways to deal with friends giving you a hard time about a smaller ride is very simple. Tell them to ride their rides and you'll ride yours. It's your ride, after all. Most true riders will accept other riders, no matter what they are on. Only posers and losers care that your ride doesn't measure up to their "standards". And if so, do you really want to be riding with them anyway? It's more fun to stand out than to be a member of a flock anyway. And if they don't buy that line of reasoning, try this one: "Well if you don't like my ride, why don't you go buy me something that you will like?". THAT will shut them up REALLY fast. It works too. Unless their name is on the payment book or the title, it shouldn't be their concern.

If your friends can't deal with your decisions, you're probably better off looking for new friends. And if you can't deal with the peer pressure, then you are putting your own safety at risk solely because of what others think. Revisit the vanity arguments above and think about why you want to ride.

I speak my mind, so I hope you're offended if you're an idiot.
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post #2 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Decision Justification Arguments

These arguments are the most common ones put forth and the ones that are hardest to deal with. These are the arguments that start flame wars. Because it is on these arguments that you have to convince someone the idea of what a beginner bike is over their preconceived notions.

This iw where the arguments often surface. Many new riders have their heart set on a specific bike and come to ask about it - not to get real advice, but to get confirmation that their decision is right. In sportbikes, more than 3/4 of the posters are trying to get the community to approve their choice of a high performance machine as a first ride. Their shock is quite real when they are barraged with answers that don't meet their expectations and that is when a flurry of oft-repeated discussion ensues.

"I'll take it easy and grow into the bike."

The purpose of a first bike is to allow you to master basic riding skills, build confidence and develop street survival strategies. You don't grow into a bike. You develop your skills on it. As your skills develop, so does your confidence and with it, your willingness to explore what the bike is capable of.

But you are also entering in a contract with the bike. It is two-way. You are going to expect the bike to act on your inputs and the bike in turn is going to respond. The problem is, your skills are still developing but the bike doesn't know that. It does what it is told. You want a partner in a contract to treat you fairly. On a bike, you don't want it fighting you every step of the way. And like most contracts, the problems don't start until there is a breakdown in communication or a misunderstanding.

In sportbikes, the disparity between a new rider's limited skills and the responsiveness of the machine are very far apart. That is a wide gulf to bridge when you are still trying to figure out what the best inputs and actions on the bike should be. Ideally, you want your bike to do what you tell it and do it nicely. You never want the bike to argue with you. Modern sportbikes, despite their exquisite handling, will often argue violently right at the moment a new rider doesn't need them to.

Remember, riding is a LEARNED skill. It does not come naturally to the majority of us (save those like the Hayden brothers who were raised on dirt bikes from the moment they could walk). It must be practiced and refined. Riding is counter-intuitive to most new riders. It doesn't happen the way you expect. For example, at speeds over 25mph, to get a bike to go right, you actually turn the bars to the left. It's called counter-steering and it eventually comes naturally as breathing once you've been in the saddle for a while. But for new riders, this kind of thing is utterly baffling.

You want your skills to grow in a measurable and predictable fashion. You have enough to be fearful of riding in traffic. The last thing you need is to be fearful of what your bike might do when you aren't ready for it. It's never a good situation.

It is interesting to point out that only one manufacturer, Suzuki, explicitly states in their promotional material that their GSX-R family of sportbikes are intended for experienced riders. This also applies to several of their larger, more powerful machines (such as a GSX-1300R Hayabusa). If Suzuki issues such a warning for its top-flight sport machines, it is reasonable to say that the same warning would apply equally to similar machines from other manufacturers.

"I'm a careful driver so I'll be a careful rider and not get into trouble."

This is what's called the "I'm responsible and mature" argument. This one is a general excuse and does not apply to sportbikes in particular.

Recent studies have shown that 90% of all drivers feel that they have average to above-driving abilities compared to other drivers on the road. These drivers also said that they think 60% of those on the road are less skilled than they are. It's an interesting perception as it indicates a mentality that everyone else is sub-par, not you. Obviously someone has to be wrong because the percentages just don't add up.

A proper attitude towards driving as well as riding is essential. But these same drivers who see themselves as superior also engage in dangerous driving habits (aggressive weaving, illegal passing, bad merges, following too close, lack of attention to traffic/road conditions, etc). Very few drivers are truly honest with themselves and their ability to handle a vehicle.

The problem is, on a bike, the perception that you are responsible is not enough. On a bike, you must be. You either learn to be or you are going to be in trouble really quick. In talking with other riders I have found that they tend to be much more defensive and thoughtful drivers behind the wheel because riding raises their perception of their surroundings.

Ultimately, responsible and mature does not equate to riding skill. It has nothing to do with it except how you will approach riding in general. You want to know the sign of a responsible rider? Look at their gear. Are they in full safety gear? Watch them ride. If you are seeing them turn their heads to clear their blind spots, making careful and smooth maneuvers, leaving a nice, safe amount space around them and working to maximize your chance of seeing and knowing what they are doing, then you are looking at a responsible rider.

Now do the same exercise and watch the drivers around you. How many turn their heads to check their blind spots, signal lane changes, leaving several car lengths of space in front of them? I'm willing to bet it's not going to be a very significant percentage. Now imagine these same individuals on a bike. I'm sure you'll be able to spot more than a few of these types on bikes too (just look for the T-shirts and flip-flops as they blast by you at 100mph on the Interstate).

How you approach the task of driving is how you will approach riding. Attention to the task of riding is the number one way you avoid trouble by not getting into it in the first place. Study your own driving habits. Good habits will definately decrease your chances of getting into trouble, but they have little to do with controlling a motorcycle. Any motorcycle. Many drivers often become much better drivers as the result of riding a motorcycle. It is far less common for it to go in the other direction.

"I drive a fast car so I'll be able to handle a fast bike."

This shows a complete and utter lack of motorcycle knowledge. Most of the folks who make this statement own fast cars (Corvette, Mustang, Acura, modified Civic, etc) or think they do. The belief is that if you can drive fast in a car you can handle a bike that can go fast. I would argue unless these folks race cars on weekends, driving a car that can go fast does not make them a experienced high-speed driver. And for those that do understand how to handle a car at high speed, it gives you knowledge of braking and traction but even that knowledge is useless for one simple reason: Bikes are not cars.

Braking, traction control, acceleration and handling are totally different on a motorcycle. Cars do not lean. Bikes do. When bikes lean, it changes the part of the tire contacting the ground (the contact patch) and changes the stability and dynamics of the bike from moment to moment. The physics of motorcycle control are in a league of their own. Even the ability to race cars will not instantly make you a motorcycle God.

Are you aware that a racing motorcycle (which is basically ANY high performance 600cc and up sportbike made today) when it is turning, is touching the ground with an amount of rubber equal to a couple of postage stamps? The same applies to any street bike at deep lean angles except they don't have the advantage of a smooth surface (like a race track) or sticky race tires (like slicks). Now imagine having to control the power and the amount of traction you are getting in that small contact patch.

Like being responsible, the ability to handle a car at high speed has nothing to do with handling a fast motorcycle. You are missing two wheels, a cage and a seatbelt on a bike. Turning at 70mph becomes a whole different world on a motorcycle compared to car. Braking is a different experience too. It is fairly hard to stand a car on its front bumper if you stomp on the brakes. It can be done with two fingers, a good amount of speed and a moment of panic on a sportbike. The only cars that have brakes equal or better than that of a sportbike built in the last 10 years is a Formula One race car.

The skills to handle the potent combination of acceleration, instant-on power and brakes are best learned on a smaller machine so when you finally get on that ultimate sportbike, you have an idea of what to do and how to handle the machine. Driving a car won't give you that. Only time in the saddle. The more, the better.

I speak my mind, so I hope you're offended if you're an idiot.
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post #3 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

"Other people have started on 600s, 750s or 1000s and didn't get hurt. So why can't I?"

This is probably the number one reason that pops up. However, it isn't so much a reason as an observation. And it is a true one. Every year, lots of new riders bring home a brand new or used GSXR, CBR, ZXR, YZF or other kind of sportbike. And many of those riders do successfully manage to get through their learning process on these machines.

The purpose of a first ride more than any other is to get the risk of riding for the first year or two as low as possible. You want your margin of forgiveness in the bike to be as wide as possible. A 600 and bigger sportbike gives you very little of that. Yes, a 600 down low is a tame if sensitive machine. However, it takes very little twist on the throttle to induce a large jump in rpm's. A brief bump on a pothole with a death grip on the throttle can introduce a 4000rpm jump in the blink of an eye. In an experienced rider's hands, this is alarming but recoverable. A gentle rolloff or a little clutch feathering manages the surge nicely. In the hands of a newbie trying to figure out the best reaction to such a scare, a rapid closeoff or a panic brake is often the result and can get you into trouble very, very quickly.

Yes, a new rider can start on a 600cc sportbike. It is NOT RECOMMENDED! The reason this line of reasoning pops up so often is because everyone feels they are the exception rather than just another new rider. It makes sense. It's hard to think of oneself as just another face in the crowd.

In the end, to deal with this line of reasoning is going to involve the new rider, not the one giving the advice. No one can stop that person from going out and buying a high performance race bike as a first ride. And maybe they will succeed. Great! They were the exception.

What you don't hear about are the non-exceptional people. Very, very few new riders who start on 750s or 1000s come back to talk about their experiences if they aren't in the "I've had no problems" group. There have been many folks who admitted they got a XX sportbike to start on and indicated that it had been a less-than-ideal choice. This type of honesty is refreshing and it is very, very rare. I am grateful these riders stepped up.

Most of the time, we never learn the fate of those riders who start on sportbikes. Some make it and simply never bother to tell their tales except to friends. Some wind up scaring themselves so badly (by getting out of control or by actually dumping the bike and injuring themselves) that they sell off and never ride again. These types can be found. Just troll the ads for new supersports with one owner and low miles. The worst of this class of riders are the ones who become "born again safety advocates". These riders who scare themselves out of riding occasionally become preachers that tell anyone who will listen that "motorcycles are dangerous and should be banned". What they don't tell those they are preaching to is how they got that way. It's bad enough having to deal with the general public (who are at least honestly unaware of what riding is about) but a lot worse to be sabotaged from within by someone who did it to themselves and got in over their head.

Then there is the last group of these "started on a supersport motorcycle" riders that never tell us their tales. They never do because they can't. They made that one mistake, that one error that compounded into a tragedy of inexperience. They can never tell us what that error was so we can learn from it and maybe also tell us that they should have started on something smaller. They were successful right until the point their skills and luck ran out. This can happen to any of us on any bike. But, in the end, new riders on a powerful sportbike can be a recipe for disaster. And don't forget about the riders that screw up and are too embarrassed to tell anyone about it. Nobody wants to get the "I told you so" responses.

Be honest with yourself. Very honest. Take the advice and wisdom of others more experienced than you and consider what they are saying. They may have a point. But if you opt for that 600 and bigger sportbike, be assured you will still be accepted as a rider and still encouraged to act as safely as possible at all times.

I speak my mind, so I hope you're offended if you're an idiot.
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post #4 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

What makes these bad bikes to start on?

Sportbikes are built as racing machines, pure and simple. They are built in response to guidelines laid down by racing bodies for a particular class and made to win races in that class. Ducati, for example, spends most of their existence building bikes to win races. Since 1950, Ducati was always a racing bike manufacturer first and their products reflected that philosophy. A by-product of winning races is the fact that people see those winning machines and want to ride them (if you're going to ride, you might as well ride the best as it goes). It didn't take the motorcycle manufacturers long to figure out that there was a market demand for these machines and reacted accordingly.

Sportbikes represent a technological arms race. This has really become apparent in the past 5-10 years where new models eclipse last years models with better performance and capability with each passing year. To compare a 1989 Honda CBR600F Hurricane (the original CBR) to a 2003 CBR600RR is pointless. There is no comparison except in the model designation showing a distant family relation. The new CBR is lighter by at least 50 pounds and packs 30 percent more power, handling and braking ability that makes the original CBR look like a ponderous dinosaur. But just because that original CBR dinosaur has been eclipsed doesn't make it any more tamable. If anything, older sportbikes are far more temperamental than the descendants.

Because sportbikes (and especially 600s since they compete in the most populous racing class out there) are designed first as racing machines, they are built with handling, acceleration and speed in mind. Not just one quality at the expense of others but all of them in abundance! Centralizing the mass of the bike at the center of gravity (CoG) gives the bike neutral stability. The high riding position and the perching of the rider over the CoG gives the bike the ability to flick over rapidly.

The steering geometry and short wheelbase of these bikes is designed to provide short and rapid directional changes. Combined with the higher CoG and mass centralization, the steering setup is what gives sportbikes their amazing turning ability.

And then there are the brakes. Braking technology has gotten progressively more potent over the past ten years. Even older sportbikes sport twin disc setups with two or four piston calipers designed to get these bikes down from 150mph to 60mph as quickly as possible. Current generation bikes are unreal. These brakes have grown to six piston calipers with massive discs whose sole job is to slow a 180mph missile down to corner speed in the shortest distance possible. If you ever watch racers, notice that they tend to only use two fingers to brake. They don't need anymore than that. The brakes are almost too powerful. And accidents happen on the track a lot due to bad or late braking.

All of these qualities produce an exquisite riding machine. The problem is, all of these qualities are designed to operate at extremes since it is under extreme conditions that these bikes are intended to operate. For the street, these capabilities are overkill. A hard squeeze of the front brake on the street can easily get a sportbike to lock its front wheel. Same applies to an over-aggressive stomp on the rear brake. No matter which way you slice it, highsides hurt.

The powerful engine can literally get you from 0 to 45mph in the blink of an eye in first gear. Come up one gear and you can be at 70mph with the slightest drop of your wrist. Add in one bump at speed without knowing what the throttle is going to do and suddenly you aren't at 70mph anymore. You're at 90+ mph and the bike is tickling its "sweet spot". At this speed, you better not panic. If you botch the slowdown from this error (either by a rapid rolloff or a shift), you can find yourself in serious trouble.

The handling capabilities of sportbikes actually make them wonderful machines to ride once you are used to thinking where you want to go. This actually gives them great beginner qualities (if on the extreme end). The downside is this perfect handling is slaved to amazing power on tap and the brakes that can back it off just as quickly.

I speak my mind, so I hope you're offended if you're an idiot.
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post #5 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

In the final equation, sportbikes are little more than a racing machine with street parts bolted on. They aren't designed for street use; they are adapted to it. But no compromises are made in that transition. The same R6, GSX-R600, ZX-6RR or CBR600RR you can buy off the showroom floor can be converted in an afternoon, be at the track the next day and wind up winning races. And the sportbikes from 10 years ago were the R6s, Gixxers, Ninjas and CBRs of their day. They possessed the same qualities that their modern descendants do just not with the same maximums. Even today on the street, a 15 year old sportbike is little different than its 2003 cousin. The 2003 might accelerate quicker, stop shorter and lean farther but at the speeds us mortals ride at, there will be little difference.

Sportbike technology has gone an amazing distance in twenty years. Performance and ability has almost doubled in that time. But rider ability has not and a new rider from 20 years ago would still have the same challenges then as a new rider would today on an R6.

Sportbike form evolved to meets its function: to win races. Always has, always will. And riders will lust after these technological marvels for that reason. Can you start out on one? Yes. But you can also pretend to be a GP racer on a smaller sportbike that gives up nothing to its bigger brothers where most of us spend our riding days. It is always more satisfying to smoke a 600cc or 1000cc sportbike in the twisties on a Ninja 250 or GS500 than a bigger bike.

But when you are ready to answer the call of the Supersport, they will be waiting for you and you'll be better off having honed your skills on the smaller sportbike. Supersports are not beginner bikes. But they make great second and third bikes.

The choice is yours.

I speak my mind, so I hope you're offended if you're an idiot.
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post #6 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 12:58 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

^^^ Sticky ^^^ Great post Av_fan!

Edit: I think alot of what you wrote is why so many people don't make constructive posts to the typical newb questions. We get numb to the constant new rider posts that won't listen to logic and experience, so we don't even bother making a reply.
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post #7 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-18-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Excellent!! writeup, Av_ ...
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post #8 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-20-2007, 01:49 AM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

The Best Post Ive ever read..I hope others read it too
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post #9 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-20-2007, 02:56 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Nice.... well done.
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post #10 of 166 (permalink) Old 05-24-2007, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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post #11 of 166 (permalink) Old 06-17-2007, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Can we get a BUMP?!
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post #12 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 06:54 AM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by av_fan
Can we get a BUMP?!
Needs another bump...
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post #13 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-22-2007, 02:49 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Hadn't seen this until now - but DAMN good thread AV
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post #14 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-22-2007, 05:42 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

great thread. im 6'3" and i had 4 seasons on a 500. it taught me alot.
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post #15 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-23-2007, 12:21 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Thank you for posting that up.

Excellent!

I just hope that EVERYONE will read it and take it to heart.
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post #16 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-23-2007, 10:54 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Very nice. I really think you hit home on every point.
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post #17 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-23-2007, 11:05 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Holy-fucking-awesome-post batman! If it wasn't already a sticky I'd say "damn that should be a sticky!"

Good job AV!!
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post #18 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-26-2007, 01:57 AM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Wow! That was a lot of reading! :P But that is all great stuff! I started on a a '76 Yamaha 500. Man, what a beater! I bought it for about 400 bucks. After a couple months of riding I managed to dump it twice in one week. (I think I had a cursed jacket) Anyway, I'm really glad that I didn't start on a new/ slightly new sport bike. Besides the fact that I would have mangled it, riding an old, drippy bike makes you appreciate and respect the responsiveness and agility of a good sport bike. Nice thread!
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post #19 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-26-2007, 01:59 AM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

great thread!!!! hopefully someone will take this shit into consideration
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post #20 of 166 (permalink) Old 07-26-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: Form Equals Function: Sportbikes are Not Beginner Bikes

Great write up, I actually read most of it!!
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